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Jurrassic Giants it's basically a Raging Rhino style rip off

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steveh35

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CM Veteran (10yr+)
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Saw this at Videoslots today and immediately Raging Rhino/Buffalo Blitz came to mind it even uses the Buffalo Blitz free spins sound effect when a diamond appears.

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It has differences the game plays both ways and the bonus is triggered with 10 diamonds on screen but even the letter symbols use roughly the same style.
 
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After I learned that Pragmatic is the old rogue Topgame in new clothes I'm boycotting them. That they rip off others games doesn't suprise me.

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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Everyone is copying each other so that doesn't bother me, but what is that with Pragmatic being Topgame? I must have missed that. Do you have any link where it has been discussed please?
 
Tirilej said:
Everyone is copying each other so that doesn't bother me, but what is that with Pragmatic being Topgame? I must have missed that. Do you have any link where it has been discussed please?
Click to expand...

Here a quote from a review site:

Pragmatic Play appeared on the scene in 2015 under mysterious circumstances. Seemingly overnight, all games and casino licensees of TopGame, a company with an awful industry reputation, were rebranded under the new moniker of Pragmatic Play. There is dispute as to whether this truly is a new company that has merely purchased the TopGame's software (as they claim), or whether it is simply the existing TopGame owners attempting to mask their poor reputation and legitimise themselves in regulated markets
Click to expand...


Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks Harry! I don't understand how I could have missed that information.
Since I was here back when all events took place with Topgame I advice everyone to do a search for earlier threads about them.

This is in that case a game provider I will never ever trust.
 
Tirilej said:
Thanks Harry! I don't understand how I could have missed that information.
Since I was here back when all events took place with Topgame I advice everyone to do a search for earlier threads about them.

This is in that case a game provider I will never ever trust.
Click to expand...

Remember that one - the missing Wild symbols on reel 1 and 5, so nobody could win the jackpot as it needed a full 5OAK Wilds. They claim everyone was paid back at the time but I highly doubt that.

I only registered with one TOPGAME casino and won $100 from their ND. Took 6 weeks to get paid and that was the end of it. Never touched another one of their casinos. :eek:
 
Harry_BKK said:
Remember that one - the missing Wild symbols on reel 1 and 5, so nobody could win the jackpot as it needed a full 5OAK Wilds. They claim everyone was paid back at the time but I highly doubt that.

I only registered with one TOPGAME casino and won $100 from their ND. Took 6 weeks to get paid and that was the end of it. Never touched another one of their casinos. :eek:
Click to expand...

There was a lot more than that. Here is two fun threads https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/all-topgames-casinos-are-down-ddos-attacks.47338/
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/rome-casino-top-game-support-disaster.31711/

Also their casinos got rogued for different issues. So many things happened.
Not strange if they decided to make it look like they were bought. I need to see proof to ever trust in them being bought by another company. Who would be so stupid to buy something that always has been rotten:eek2:
 
In this case,why are very reputable casino's offering Pragmatic games then?
I mean,they would not touch them with a barge pole even if this brand would be rogue? :o

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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I had absolutely no idea about this and am pretty surprised. I played pragmatic almost every session and have had some okay hits.

I think when they were cheating players they were in their own rogues casino's and not offered to legit casino's, is that correct?

I would imagine all these casino's that offer them now only do so because they meet the criteria. Meaning they have been tested and passed auditing and what not because I couldnt see videoslots and slotsmillion and everyone else pumping rogue slots through their casino.

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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lotusch said:
In this case,why are very reputable casino's offering Pragmatic games then?
I mean,they would not touch them with a barge pole even if this brand would be rogue? :o
Click to expand...

lockinlove said:
I had absolutely no idea about this and am pretty surprised. I played pragmatic almost every session and have had some okay hits.

I think when they were cheating players they were in their own rogues casino's and not offered to legit casino's, is that correct?

I would imagine all these casino's that offer them now only do so because they meet the criteria. Meaning they have been tested and passed auditing and what not because I couldnt see videoslots and slotsmillion and everyone else pumping rogue slots through their casino.
Click to expand...

At the time TOPGAME owned the games and the casinos. Hence, they were controlling all from the front to the end. They were taking US players at the time, meaning their license was Costa Rica or something.

Pragmatic Play is licensed by the MGA and UKGC, so i guess that they passed the security checks. I think they are OK to play in places like VS or SM just like Playtech but I would not play at a casino they own (if they still have some, didn't bother to check).

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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Harry_BKK said:
At the time TOPGAME owned the games and the casinos. Hence, they were controlling all from the front to the end. They were taking US players at the time, meaning their license was Costa Rica or something.
...
Click to expand...

Yeah I remember those casino's. They used to pump out freechips like crazy and I admit i tried a couple but once word got around how rogue they were i didnt even bother with anything. And i didnt really enjoy any of their slots either.

I remember one time, I got a freechip maybe through a mailer or from a website I used to frequent. I went and spoke to live chat and they made it sound like it was a real money free chip but I could tell something was off. So I pushed and they told me wagering was 99x. I pushed more and they admitted even if I met wagering I cant cashout because the freechip was actually playmoney. I asked whats the point of that and the 99x wager. And live chat ignored me. So its pretty obvious they put sky high wagering knowing no one would probably meet it but hopefully would get some players addicted or at the very least interest, so once they lost they would deposit money. Very scummy experience which turned me off of their games.
 
Harry_BKK said:
At the time TOPGAME owned the games and the casinos. Hence, they were controlling all from the front to the end. They were taking US players at the time, meaning their license was Costa Rica or something...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if this is their casino. Couldn't find any information about them, or any license.
The former casino was Romecasino and their rep here was posting from the same account as Topgame back then.
romevipcasino.com/ They claim to have been around for many years. Strange I've never heard about them.

I haven't checked the other casinos they had back then, but maybe they all have gone through some make-over.
The important thing is that their games are tested and clear...depending who have made those tests of course.

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks Sara... Rome is definitely RomeVIPCasino, even the logo is the same.

And they have not really changed. Constantly, 2,500+ customers "online, over 1mio registered and active players, no license. :rolleyes:

Question is who owns them? If it is Pragmatic Play then we should stop playing their slots straight away.

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...

Capture 962.webp Capture 961.webp
 
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Harry_BKK said:
Thanks Sara... Rome is definitely RomeVIPCasino, even the logo is the same.

And they have not really changed. Constantly, 2,500+ customers "online, over 1mio registered and active players. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm not that computer savvy, but if anyone maybe could help dig a bit deeper in this I would be really greatful;)
 
Searching some of the names provided within the romeVIP company took me to europe777 that is pretty much copy and pasted quote from Paul Atkinson marketing manager. And same results with players online shows over 2k. Almost the exact same number as the rome casino

And I find this on europe777

Capture.webp

If you search this company it lists another 17 casinos under the same ownership. many with the word VIP casino but not showing romeVIP but I would imagine they are under the same ownership. The common theme also being pragmatic being offered in every single one of them

Capture.webp

Capture.webp

I also found this lol which seems to be a dumb mistake by this casino group stating on all 20 casino's the same guy won the gold buillon prize. And further inspection by others looks like the logo on the guys shirt is company related.
So in short an employee faking they are a normal player winning tens of thousands in gold on all 20 sites. casinolistings.com/news/2016/10/worlds-luckiest-man-wins-20kg-of-gold-20-different-casinos

But I dont see pragmatic owning these sites. I looked through pragmatic website and these casino's and didnt come across anything that would lead me to believe that. They have a UK gaming license and are gaming labs certified. But I dont think they are too proud to be part of these sites...or at least willing to advertise it. because on their website they list all their partnerships which are all legit casino's like betsson, videoslots, leovegas etc. But not one single mention of these rogue casino's.

I also found this on their website

On 22nd July 2016, IBID Group completed its takeover of Pragmatic Play as part of its strategy to enhance its internet portfolio by partnering with “first-class licensed content providers”.

So I feel pretty confident pragmatic are completely fine aside from offering their games to rogue outfits. But I can see microgaming even has a deal with a couple of these rogue pieces of crap

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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The founder of IBID that "bought" Pragmatic play is according to their own webpage a guy named David Barzilay. <snipped link: info removed at source>

"In order to protect Rome Casino Group's affiliates' and players' online security, TVMUK has filed a criminal complaint in Romania against T.G. Services Inc., the parent company of Topgame, and (the individual that represents and negotiates for Topgame in all its dealings with Rome Group)."

Another search hit states he is/was the owner of TopGame. Not the most reliable sources, but seems there still are some ties to the past here.

Admin note:

David Barzilay may have been named in that criminal complaint, but the Romanian authorities found it had no merit and threw it out. Thus, his name was removed from the source website, and it will be removed here in reference to this posted letter. There was no lawsuit in relation to him. So in fairness, his name is removed from those comments.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks! I knew someone would start digging:D

All of those casinos aren't rogue but some still are, or should be since they are the same as before.
As with most platforms they can be used by good casinos too that only use a certain part of the service.

Of course Pragmatic wouldn't advertise these casinos even if they owned some of them. Topgame did all they could to hide their doing with the casinos before too. We didn't know here for sure until they used the same IP-address. Most companies are good in hiding information.
 
Not the same. As players I think it is important to know the slots we play, know how they behave and what they can pay.
Rhino is one way and has lower pays (les than half sometimes), but diamond pays and wilds add ways in feature (like some BTG games). All Rhino wins are caped at 250k.
JG pays both ways, has better pays, but diamond doesnt pay and mostly gets in the way to block wins. Multiplier in feature only gets up to 5.

Next I will calculate xbet potential for both. I am sure someone has done it for Rhino (maybe for both games), but I want to see for myself.
Sure, for Rhino you know it only pays 250k, but potential can show what betsize can get you there and how hard it is to get (considering a cap is only legal if it doesn't affect TRTP).
 
Tirilej said:
Thanks! I knew someone would start digging:D

All of those casinos aren't rogue but some still are, or should be since they are the same as before.
As with most platforms they can be used by good casinos too that only use a certain part of the service.

Of course Pragmatic wouldn't advertise these casinos even if they owned some of them. Topgame did all they could to hide their doing with the casinos before too. We didn't know here for sure until they used the same IP-address. Most companies are good in hiding information.
Click to expand...

All of those casino's in the list are owned by one company engage entertainment media so if some are rogue and some are not I find that weird. I truly dont know much about any of these casino's aside from the couple shady things I read while looking. So maybe none of them are rogue but are just idiots with the false advertising stuff with the gold thing and false advertising of their stats (every casino shows 2k players online..1 million players)
 
Hey that does seem a bit fishy. I think its reliable enough. Good find :thumbsup:


So David barzilay is someone who had deep ties with topgame and changed their product to pragmatic. He then purchases the product at a later date. Why? because topgame had a very bad reputation and they didnt want to get rid of their product. So what do they do? Find a buyer and change the name. But who wants to buy a company worth nothing because of its reputation? Someone linked to them where they can change the name and company model and pretend ties were cut by the scum bags who ran it. Low and behold, the guy who buys pragmatic, is a dirt bag that didnt think his name was sitting in an old thread waiting to be found by someone looking into them.

Whoever was behind this idea was very smart. They took a dead product and turned it into a product that is now across the most respected casino's. 2013 was the time of the complaint (topgame and David barzilay) and in 2015 IBID (David Barzilay) is created and buys pragmatic (top game)

So the question is can they be trusted? Well do we trust the UKGC, BMM testlabs and gaming labs certified?

I bet you slotsmillion, videoslots, leovegas, Mr Green have no idea about any of this. I wonder if they did at the time of being contacted by pragmatic, would they allow a company to be on their site that was caught cheating and lying to players? I bet not.

Pretty damn sneaky regardless.

Admin note:

David Barzilay may have been named in that criminal complaint, but the Romanian authorities found it had no merit and threw it out. Thus, his name was removed from the source website, and it will be removed here in reference to this posted letter. There was no lawsuit in relation to him. So in fairness, his name is removed from those comments.
Click to expand...
 
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dave1888 said:
Here's the most surprising thing you'll hear regarding Top Game...Monarchs casino paid me a withdrawal a few years ago hahaha! it took months to get it but they did eventually process my cashout ;) Still not as surprising as being paid by Landmark Bingo or Playstar24 though!! :eek:
Click to expand...

Easier wining the lotto mate :eek:
 
But Pragmatic games are safe to play at an accredited casino? Like VS?
That's all I want to know. :-)

Admin note:

From Pragmatic Play's representative:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...
 
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lockinlove said:
All of those casino's in the list are owned by one company engage entertainment media so if some are rogue and some are not I find that weird. I truly dont know much about any of these casino's aside from the couple shady things I read while looking. So maybe none of them are rogue but are just idiots with the false advertising stuff with the gold thing and false advertising of their stats (every casino shows 2k players online..1 million players)
Click to expand...

Not correct. For instance Box24, Black Diamond and Spartan Slots are owned by Deckmedia who have a few of their casinos listed as accredited here.
Some more information here: https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/is-box24-accredited.62685/
 
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I guess we have to trust UKGC, BMM etc, but I don't think we should condone that kind of behaviour by giving them money. They could have been clear & open from the start with Pragmatic, but chose this sneaky-scheme.
 
Daniel replied to me very kindly as I PM'd him about this thread.
He also said he was aware of everything before signing a deal with Pragmatic Slots.
As Pragmatic Slots now are properly licensed and fully tested to get these licenses I feel comfortable to play their slots at Videoslots or any other accredited casino.
Like I said before, had a few decent hits on some of their slots, actually they pay better to me then for example MGS and Play n Go lately.

MGS has gone to smithereens...Greedy b*stards. :o
 
Tirilej said:
Here is a link to some more information about Pragmatic Plays as former Topgame. I hope it's ok that I post it. It was the best information I could find.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Click to expand...

lol funny they tried lying saying there is no relation. This is when I wish we could speak face to face and say oh really well in 2013 David was named in a criminal complaint as part of top game and then in 2015 david created a company and bought topgame.

Admin note:

David Barzilay may have been named in that criminal complaint, but the Romanian authorities found it had no merit and threw it out. Thus, his name was removed from the source website, and it will be removed here in reference to this posted letter. There was no lawsuit in relation to him. So in fairness, his name is removed from those comments.
Click to expand...

It seems like a case of getting caught being dirty and deciding that it isnt going to work so they rebranded and sold themselves...to themselves and decided to try and smarten up by getting licensed and tested.

I dont really buy into videoslots knowing about this already. I think thats just to protect themselves. I just dont think that a legit casino would be approached and told the whole story about selling themselves to themself and then said casino says hey no problem. I dont see topgame offering up this information when they have tried so hard to hide it from everyone.

Its more likely pragmatic approached them and said here is our license and here is our test certificates lets make a deal.

Tirilej said:
Not correct. For instance Box24, Black Diamond and Spartan Slots are owned by Deckmedia who have a few of their casinos listed as accredited here.
Some more information here: https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/is-box24-accredited.62685/
Click to expand...

Oh ok. I went to a site that said "click here to see the other 17 casino's owned by engage media" and it gave me that list

Capture.webp
 

In this online world of casinos we never really know the whole truth, or why anything is hidden. It's all about trying to learn as much as possible, or ask if in doubt.
I will not play any of these games though because there is no chance I will give any money to Topgame. That's me though, and everyone is free to make their own decisions.
 
Well 30 FS within a few spins but not even remotely close to your whopper in free play Dunover.. :o:D



EDIT: Increased bet to €2.00 and got 15 FS shortly after for a miserable 6x stake..

So that's how we roll...No premium symbols seen whatsoever...
 
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I was contacted by a representative from Pragmatic Play who wanted me to explain a couple of things:

For one thing:

Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.

And they wanted me to let you know that the lawsuit that was filed by TVMUK against Top Game had no merits and was dropped.

They also stated that they want to be fully transparent and are offering to bring a lucky member to their offices for a visit. I will let that person know. :D

And for the initial post of this thread, I've played Jurassic Giants and it's not like Raging Rhino at all - except for maybe the diamonds and some lettering. It's a much different game.
 
A lucky member? That sounds like it has already been decided :p
That's very cool though, and if that member is for some reason unwilling to go there, i would love to volunteer :)

I have been playing a lot of their Games, and must admit i stopped, as soon as this thread popped up..Now that all seems to be clear, i'll gladly play them again, but i sure would love to visit their offices and take a critical look. Of course if the appointed member does go (and why wouldn't he or she) i am already looking forward to a report!
 

I would love to know under what new name Topgame is run under?
Since former employees have said it's the same people running the show, as was told in the link I posted, then I must assume it was all a lie what was written there?
So they don't have anything to do with all those old casinos that are still running then?
I would love for them to be ok now and that their games will be fair. Especially since many casinos are offering them. It will take a lot more information for me to believe in them though.

I really hope you send someone who are willing and smart enough to do a real investigation...like The Pogg maybe :)
 
Regardless of the legality of Pragmatic Play's ownership, their games are frustrating. Way too many teases and scratch card results. However, I am addicted to Wolf Gold and think I can get a 300x win out of it. Other than that game and Jurassic Giants they have very little else worth playing. Mighty Kong has potential but good luck getting anything out of it unless you're today's lucky bloke.
 
It was me who they have invited to come and visit them. I am in discussions via email with them. Will update as discussions progress.

This was not a pick and choose thing, it was a personal invite from pragmatic and that message was relayed to Bryan to be sent to me. They want to introduce me to the team and discuss any questions I have, show me everything they have strived for including the regulation requirements they had to go through and the overall product.

So if I choose to go, I will start a thread and give you guys a chance to ask questions you want me to ask them.

Im pretty high up in the company I work for so I may be able to get some time off to take them up on their offer. I will try my hardest to make this happen as I think it would be a great experience and these types of offers dont come by very often.
 

That was good news really because I doubt you will let them fool you, and I know you will read up on things and gather information before you go.
Have a great trip whenever it will be:thumbsup:
 
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I like their slots and enjoy playing them...
Had a few nice hits,no major yet but a good few 100-300x on some of their slots.

Would be nice if a Pragmatic rep would be around here too to enhance their good will. :):)

But I have no issues playing their slots.
 
Casinomeister said:
I was contacted by a representative from Pragmatic Play who wanted me to explain a couple of things:
Pragmatic Play has no association with TopGame beyond an initial commercial transaction for the purchase of a copy of certain game titles. There is no other connection between the companies and any indication of a deeper association has unfair negative implications for Pragmatic Play. TopGame still trades, under a new name, but it is not in any way nor ever has been associated with Pragmatic Play. Pragmatic Play now develops its own game titles,... are fully licensed and regulated in many jurisdictions.
Click to expand...

They have no association with TopGame beyond it's atleast one of the same guys behind it, and a number of the same casinos..?
 
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