Online casino slots should be at a minimum return to player of 96%

[dealer wins]

Anything below a 96% RTP will result in low rollers having many sessions that are boring, tedious, off putting and at the end of the day costly.

As for high rollers, all of the above but with exponentially costly sessions.

Take a £0.50 slot bet, 10 spins a minute on average taking account of coin shows and features

1 hour play with 96% RTP will result in a loss of just under £12.

Anyone who enjoys slotting will play for 30 - 60 hours a month, thats £360-£720 a month loss, more than enough profit for the casino.

94%, 92% or even 88% RTPs are literally daylight robbery, and should be banned by regulators worldwide

Online the minimum RTP should be 98% IMO

Rant over

 

[jasonuk]

Once the doors opened, you knew sites were going to start taking the piss - the list of 96%-only sites in the UK has been extinguished for a while, and even the list of 96% existing (with 94% new) is starting to deplete.

There are retail venues that run higher RTPs than sites like William Hill do now - which is absurd. 98% might be wishful thinking, but I've still not seen a coherent argument for less than 95% online - yes there is an increase in taxes, but mostly as a function of yield not as a function of wagers.

My worry is that as the losses pile up, they'll then slow the spin speed again - and that cycle of death will continue until the last player turns out the lights.

If you want something to really rant about. Remember premium play options (bonus buy, ante bet etc) enticing you with higher RTP? They realised people were so eager to skip the paint-drying part of the game, an increasing number of those now have a lower RTP for a larger (or significantly larger) bet.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

People keep playing them tho. That’s what I don’t get. Fair enough the casuals might not know any difference, but those that know and still continue are just encouraging it.

STOP!!!!

 

[Avernite]

Would be nice if reviews included RTPs.

Speaking of, anyone have a current list of casinos that have high RTP that isn't bet365?

 

[satchnz]

People keep playing them tho. That’s what I don’t get. Fair enough the casuals might not know any difference, but those that know and still continue are just encouraging it.

STOP!!!!

This. Even though the concept of RTP has become more understood by the community, there are still a lot out there that have no idea. “Big Bass on site X is the same as Big Bass on site Y”. Zero concept of RTP.

I still see streamers state that there is no difference between a 96% and 94% slot. “It’s calculated over billions of spins so you’ll never notice only doing a couple of hundred.” And viewers lap this up. Would make sense if you only ever did a couple of hundred spins and never returned to slots. But we don’t. We play again and again.

 

[ritae]

500 Casino (the one with the numbers) has started to drop RTP too. All Play 'n Go already down to 94%.

Videoslots is awful now, dead spin after dead spin on their 90%, 92% favourites.

 

[Valhalla]

The industry is collapsing before our eyes, and honestly I won't be sad about it.
Well, I will in a way but really once the games become an entirely pointless and futile exercise I'll be glad I'm saving money and mental energy for things that might actually provide me with genuine entertainment.

My last £200 of deposits (£20 and £30 at a time) have all vanished in seconds at minimum bets. YAWN.

 

[jasonuk]

I still see streamers state that there is no difference between a 96% and 94% slot. “It’s calculated over billions of spins so you’ll never notice only doing a couple of hundred.” And viewers lap this up. Would make sense if you only ever did a couple of hundred spins and never returned to slots. But we don’t. We play again and again.

I remember Bandit was notorious for that (and this was the early days of RTP drops - VS being one of the first). Didn't really care about RTP, but very interested in talking about the weekend booster...

Anyone claiming a 96% and 94% slot "are the same" is objectively lying - if it was the same game, then it would be the same graphics, sound, reels and thus RTP. The misdirection with "a couple of hundred" is a common one - ignoring that a chunk of the audience won't be doing tens or hundreds of spins, but tens or hundreds of thousands of spins where they absolutely will notice it in the wallet over time.

Given how much deception is going on, the UKGC really need to revisit that suggestion to put the RTP on the loading screen - particularly as providers make it easy for operators by often including the RTP in the gameID (which occasionally surfaces to the player).

 

[brianmon]

I don't think it's just the taxation (if at all) which is behind lowering RTP. There are around 400,000 players registered with Gamstop.
That's 400,000 customers, just from the UK, lost by casinos. Plus those players who have just self-excluded, without using Gamstop.

What are the reasons behind that?

Lowering RTP and increasing variance, may keep the casinos going, short-term.
But the less frequent chances of a decent win and a withdrawal, because of RTP and variance is only going to increase the number of players quitting. This means that RTP will be lowered again to compensate, to maintain the level of profit that they've been used to, and on and on...

Casual players don't need to understand RTP (although it would be good if they did). But they will notice how often they get the chance of a withdrawal, and how often their deposits are just gobbled up in record time, compared to previous years.

 

[lockinlove]

Ive seen a lot of online casinos closing down and these casinos were running on 92% rtp.

Short term greed is every business persons downfall. Sure you get that quick $100 deposit on your 92% rtp slots but you think the person is going to stick around long with terrible returns? Before you know it, that casino doesnt have any players and they close.

Instead, have them on 96% and keep players around for life. They dont have the same overhead as landbased casinos or anywhere close to the same amount of employees to pay. Why are you putting your rtp lower than landbased? Greed. Stupidity.

I personally have closed almost all the Dama NV casinos and Hollycorn. They started running mostly 92% rtp on slots they could adjust it on. I played Dama for the last 7 years constant but once they did this, I was gone.

As a matter of fact, I have pretty much stopped playing at online casinos now. Ill have a go on one that has rtp but Im tired of every session having to open up slots and check their rtp to make sure they havent changed them on me

When I close my accounts, I would get emails from the casino "youve played here for years why are you leaving" I simply say your rtp is too low and that's that.

Take for example Betty casino. It's a 100k license fee from igaming. They set all their slots on 92%. Nobody was playing there. I got an email a few days ago saying they increased the rtp on their slots. I went and looked and one provider is now 96% and the rest up to 94%.

They didnt increase it to be nice. They had no players and were probably very far away from recouping that 100k license fee. Still, I wont play there because im not playing on 94%.

I used to love videoslots but they put all their slots on 92% and lowered their rewards. I havent played there since. How many players did they lose? Im not sure, people love their rewards so they may have stuck around and are more addicted to the reward scheme than the slots.

The different between 96% and 94% is very noticable

 

[satchnz]

500 Casino (the one with the numbers) has started to drop RTP too. All Play 'n Go already down to 94%.

Videoslots is awful now, dead spin after dead spin on their 90%, 92% favourites.

I put a hold on playing there as I had read in numerous places that they had started KYCing and closing UK accounts. Good to know their RTPs are no longer at max as I won’t be returning.

 

[BillyGoldblum]

oh ya this is bullshit now. I was browsing the forum and I found 2 things. My wife arguing in the political threads and this thread
When I streamed slots were mostly 96% across the board ffs. Now i go have a blast on them and they all 92%--I didnt even notice this but all slots dead af--so i go look and bam all rtp 92% everywhere

fukkkkk offffff

industry is dead boys

 

[lockinlove]

oh ya this is bullshit now. I was browsing the forum and I found 2 things. My wife arguing in the political threads and this thread
When I streamed slots were mostly 96% across the board ffs. Now i go have a blast on them and they all 92%--I didnt even notice this but all slots dead af--so i go look and bam all rtp 92% everywhere

fukkkkk offffff

industry is dead boys

Stop playing slots and go make me dinner

 

[DibarY]

The industry is collapsing before our eyes, and honestly I won't be sad about it.
Well, I will in a way but really once the games become an entirely pointless and futile exercise I'll be glad I'm saving money and mental energy for things that might actually provide me with genuine entertainment.

My last £200 of deposits (£20 and £30 at a time) have all vanished in seconds at minimum bets. YAWN.

Hello Everyone, I have just recently joined this site.

I have been recording my game sessions since March as they have been mostly absolutely horrendous with "inverse RTP".

Your experience is exactly the same as mine as a £5-50 depositor. Seems to be no wins in the system any more and it's becoming so tedious and the RNG, particularly the live scene, is so obviously fake that it's embarrassing for them as it is worrying for us.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

Bet365 is the only site that gives me playing time these days. I do have to lower my stakes and they do have a slightly limited amount of games but they are like a shining beacon in a thick fog of gloom. They are not even somebody I'd call fantastic but they are well better than most.

 

[DibarY]

Bet365 is the only site that gives me playing time these days. I do have to lower my stakes and they do have a slightly limited amount of games but they are like a shining beacon in a thick fog of gloom. They are not even somebody I'd call fantastic but they are well better than most.

I was with them for a long time but they turned the screw on me big time. Put me through the mill and mucked me about a lot. After I started uploading on my YT they must've put me into a "no win zone" where every deposit went straight under, and cancelled my free daily spins etc. Pretty pathetic.

What killed it was one month, when my overall pot was doing fantastic across like 3 or 4 casinos and probably my best month this year, theirs drained me £400 and that was enough for them to suspend me. They could not be told how it was, and a series of phonecall comms ensued, where they'd interrogate me then call back 4 days later to deconstruct and twist my replies to interrogate me further.

Not gonna lie, I ended up getting frustrated with them, telling them to f*** right off and went and cancelled my account straight after.

An overall harrowing experience, so be careful with them. They are brutal once they don't like you.

 

[Avernite]

I was with them for a long time but they turned the screw on me big time. Put me through the mill and mucked me about a lot. After I started uploading on my YT they must've put me into a "no win zone" where every deposit went straight under, and cancelled my free daily spins etc. Pretty pathetic.

What killed it was one month, when my overall pot was doing fantastic across like 3 or 4 casinos and probably my best month this year, theirs drained me £400 and that was enough for them to suspend me. They could not be told how it was, and a series of phonecall comms ensued, where they'd interrogate me then call back 4 days later to deconstruct and twist my replies to interrogate me further.

Not gonna lie, I ended up getting frustrated with them, telling them to f*** right off and went and cancelled my account straight after.

An overall harrowing experience, so be careful with them. They are brutal once they don't like you.

Yeah I used to play there, decided I wanted a 1 year time out so they permanently excluded me instead with no possibility of reopening.

Fun.

 

[Guntis]

I was away from Bet365 for 5 years, and when I came back, they restricted me for good. The thing is that as soon as you're excluded, they put you on that madman list and see you as a potentially problematic gambler. Casinos could just create two separate buttons:

1. Want to stop the game for a bit? No problem. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

2. Feel like gambling is becoming a problem? No worries. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

It could be easily done.

 

[DibarY]

I was away from Bet365 for 5 years, and when I came back, they restricted me for good. The thing is that as soon as you're excluded, they put you on that madman list and see you as a potentially problematic gambler. Casinos could just create two separate buttons:

1. Want to stop the game for a bit? No problem. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

2. Feel like gambling is becoming a problem? No worries. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

It could be easily done.

It doesn't make much sense logically to label people as "problems" then ENSURE that they will ONLY have problems playing.

then again, it makes perfect BUSINESS sense, doesn't it?

 

[Avernite]

I was away from Bet365 for 5 years, and when I came back, they restricted me for good. The thing is that as soon as you're excluded, they put you on that madman list and see you as a potentially problematic gambler. Casinos could just create two separate buttons:

1. Want to stop the game for a bit? No problem. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

2. Feel like gambling is becoming a problem? No worries. 1-6 months, 1 year, 5 years.

It could be easily done.

Even a warning would have been nice. Wish they had a rep here as otherwise it was a nice place to play.

 

[Dazzleader]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I’m curious if anyone here has noticed more games quietly lowering their RTP options lately. I’ve seen a few providers offering multiple versions, and some casinos pick the lowest one without saying much. Do you still check RTP before playing, or do you just go by how the game feels during a session?

 

[dealer wins]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I’m curious if anyone here has noticed more games quietly lowering their RTP options lately. I’ve seen a few providers offering multiple versions, and some casinos pick the lowest one without saying much. Do you still check RTP before playing, or do you just go by how the game feels during a session?

Nice to see one of my threads come back to life.

I check the RTP of every slot and game I play.

I now only really play at Slots Temple, who run the highest RTP version of every slot without exception. And some slots now come with a max RTP version of 94%, which I refuse to play (Except cops and robbers which seems to constantly pay me big feature wins and I am well ahead on over the last year)

IMO ST is the best place for slots in the UK, if you dont mind a good but limited selection of slots. (I think they have only about 1500, but do add more weekly)

 

[lockinlove]

They should be but they arent and getting worse. Im finding a majority of the casinos now all on 92-94% rtp with a portion being 88-91%.

They are doing more harm than good. When you take players money faster with less fun, they see no reason to deposit.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

Anything below a 96% RTP will result in low rollers having many sessions that are boring, tedious, off putting and at the end of the day costly.

As for high rollers, all of the above but with exponentially costly sessions.

Take a £0.50 slot bet, 10 spins a minute on average taking account of coin shows and features

1 hour play with 96% RTP will result in a loss of just under £12.

Anyone who enjoys slotting will play for 30 - 60 hours a month, thats £360-£720 a month loss, more than enough profit for the casino.

94%, 92% or even 88% RTPs are literally daylight robbery, and should be banned by regulators worldwide

Online the minimum RTP should be 98% IMO

Rant over

Maybe it should be the opposite - RTP should be 86%? People would play less, fewer gambling addiction problems. The higher the RTP, the more addictive slots become.

 

[dealer wins]

Maybe it should be the opposite - RTP should be 86%? People would play less, fewer gambling addiction problems. The higher the RTP, the more addictive slots become.

Gamblers gonna gamble, only fair to give them a fair gamble. I have been a gambler all my adult life (from age 13 at the arcades lol) I love gambling, even though I absolutely know it to be a losing proposition unless you have an edge.

For the last 23 years, my sole income has come from sports betting arbing, which means I need to find an RTP over 100% on every single sports bet and exchange lay I make.

But I still love playing slots, its just something I enjoy, just like having a drink or 5 on a Sat night (Whilst playing slots lol)

Life without vices aka fun is no life IMO

 

[Avernite]

Maybe it should be the opposite - RTP should be 86%? People would play less, fewer gambling addiction problems. The higher the RTP, the more addictive slots become.

I'm taking a year off gambling online. If RTP dips below 94 I won't be returning

 

[Wait!What?]

I stopped believing in RTP a long time ago. RTP is calculated over a billion spins and for anyone to think they are going to lose less money or have bigger hits on high RTP slots is just a myth in my opinion.
I have played playngo at 96%, 94%, 92 and even at 87% (at Skillonnet) and I had regular bonuses paying in excess of 100x on the 87% one. My biggest hit of 6000x is on a 92% variant on sweet alchemy. I have also played Pragmatic slots on 96%, 94% and 92% and I had my biggest wins on 94% ones with the 92% helping me more in my wagers. The 96% pragmatic and Play'N Go are like slow deaths. You get bonuses and hits regularly but they do drain your balance too.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I'm taking a year off gambling online. If RTP dips below 94 I won't be returning

That's what I'm counting on!

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I stopped believing in RTP a long time ago. RTP is calculated over a billion spins and for anyone to think they are going to lose less money or have bigger hits on high RTP slots is just a myth in my opinion.
I have played playngo at 96%, 94%, 92 and even at 87% (at Skillonnet) and I had regular bonuses paying in excess of 100x on the 87% one. My biggest hit of 6000x is on a 92% variant on sweet alchemy. I have also played Pragmatic slots on 96%, 94% and 92% and I had my biggest wins on 94% ones with the 92% helping me more in my wagers. The 96% pragmatic and Play'N Go are like slow deaths. You get bonuses and hits regularly but they do drain your balance too.

Fewer spins are needed to feel the difference. The lower the volatility, the fewer spins required. Billions are only necessary for precision down to the hundredths.

 

[satchnz]

I stopped believing in RTP a long time ago. RTP is calculated over a billion spins and for anyone to think they are going to lose less money or have bigger hits on high RTP slots is just a myth in my opinion.
I have played playngo at 96%, 94%, 92 and even at 87% (at Skillonnet) and I had regular bonuses paying in excess of 100x on the 87% one. My biggest hit of 6000x is on a 92% variant on sweet alchemy. I have also played Pragmatic slots on 96%, 94% and 92% and I had my biggest wins on 94% ones with the 92% helping me more in my wagers. The 96% pragmatic and Play'N Go are like slow deaths. You get bonuses and hits regularly but they do drain your balance too.

I'm about to start a casino with slots all set to 10% RTP. I assume you'll join my casino and play at it? ;-)

I certainly wouldn't...

 

[Wait!What?]

I'm about to start a casino with slots all set to 10% RTP. I assume you'll join my casino and play at it? ;-)

I certainly wouldn't...

I have played Bonanza so I already know what your slots are going to pay.

 

[satchnz]

I have played Bonanza so I already know what your slots are going to pay.

But you'll still join and happily play there?

 

[Wait!What?]

But you'll still join and happily play there?

You and I both know you will not get a licence to operate this casino.
Also it seems like you don't like me having a disregard for RTP's.
Me being okay with 94%, 92% 87% RTP is straight up on my personal experience of having decent wins on that range. I used to watch all these videos and read articles where it said that players should only go for 96% RTP as they are "player friendly". I even did that Playngo RTP check by looking at YouTube videos. I used to check slot rtps and then make deposits at these high RTP casinos only to watch my balance go down to zero. Then I gave a toss about this whole RTP numbers and played at whatever casino had good deposit bonuses with player friendly terms. After my wins I would check the RTP numbers and it turns out that casinos on low RTP were giving me bigger hits and more cashouts.
Whatever floats my boat.
My disregard for RTP's is because of my losses at these so called High RTP/player friendly casinos. If someone has had a different experience I am completely okay with that.

 

[dunover]

You and I both know you will not get a licence to operate this casino.
Also it seems like you don't like me having a disregard for RTP's.
Me being okay with 94%, 92% 87% RTP is straight up on my personal experience of having decent wins on that range. I used to watch all these videos and read articles where it said that players should only go for 96% RTP as they are "player friendly". I even did that Playngo RTP check by looking at YouTube videos. I used to check slot rtps and then make deposits at these high RTP casinos only to watch my balance go down to zero. Then I gave a toss about this whole RTP numbers and played at whatever casino had good deposit bonuses with player friendly terms. After my wins I would check the RTP numbers and it turns out that casinos on low RTP were giving me bigger hits and more cashouts.
Whatever floats my boat.
My disregard for RTP's is because of my losses at these so called High RTP/player friendly casinos. If someone has had a different experience I am completely okay with that.

I don't think that Play'N Go check works anymore, been disabled?

 

[Wait!What?]

I don't think that Play'N Go check works anymore, been disabled?

Yes, been a while since they did that.
I am actually surprised they let it allowed being checked for so long.

I believe Nickslots was one of the first few who checked it on stream. I couldn't follow how he explained and then it was this video from slot hunterz

 

[satchnz]

You and I both know you will not get a licence to operate this casino.

Each to their own but you surely must realise that I was joking...

 

[Wait!What?]

I

Each to their own but you surely must realise that I was joking...

Ofcourse.
I was trying to take the joke forward too but then I realised without context I would look stupid.

 

[satchnz]

I

Ofcourse.
I was trying to take the joke forward too but then I realised without context I would look stupid.

At least if you are not so worried about RTP then that gives you plenty of options on where to play. Plus you are conditioning yourself for when all casinos eventually choose lower RTP versions of slots (or providers stop releasing 96%+ versions of their game). I’m sure this will eventuate.