Important slot questions for software providers

[degerardo]

Hello Providers
A few question I'd like to ask and I think the community will be interested to hear them as well

I love slots - especially - NetEnt, Relax, NoLimit, Red Tiger-only Gonzo Megaways, Pirates Plenty series and Piggy Riches Megaways.
So, I'd like to ask:
1. If I play slot from ONE provider with 10000 spins, I lose 5000 Euros - leave the game and go to other game from same provider - it is starting as completely new beginning session for that new slot from the same provider, or is it counted as - from same provider across multiple slots and counting spins/wins/loses/bonuses?

2. Same kind of question but for the same slot played. If I play 10000 spins, losing 5000Euros, leave the game - come back to the same game next day, is it gonna continue where I left? I mean in number of spins, RTP, bonuses/wins/loses? Or it is starting as new beginning? I am referring to the RTP of slot, or that "random" bonus landing, wins, loses?

3. I did try from one provider a thing - I did play until I get bonus, then leave the game, go to another one from same provider, land another bonus leave, go to 3rd game - land the bonus, leave, go to 4th and 5th game landed bonus... then I went back one by one to play the bonuses. The results were kind of the same.. is it all connected between the games, or is it completely separate "random" bonus wins?

4. Across 3 or 4 different casinos - playing the same game at the same time (lets say 4. of them - I did run the test on it-results are in different thread) does the same provider applies wins, timing of bonuses, number of spins to across same slot in different casinos with same person account? IP address check?

5. Is the counting of getting bonus across all the bets? Or in the same bet? I mean, if I play 1Euro bet - 700spins without bonus, then if I go to bet 5Euros it will keep counting 701..702.. until it reach the number of spins to get bonus, or it starts again from "0" spins? <- Then if so - If I go back down to 1Euro spins - it will continue on that bet counting? Or again from "0"?

6. Is Money Train 3 happening??? Any New Pirate's Plenty series game in works? Or any new Dead or Alive 2 sequel? Or any sequel to Fire in the Hole? Dragon Tribe?

Thank you very much! I know these question are probably very inside the core of providers, but any answer will be amazing to get

 

[dionysus]

It doesnt much matter if you stay playing at one casino, or another, the slot doesnt care* -each spin is independent of the one previous ie it doesnt care if you won at one casino or lost at another.

Just bear in mind, casino X may have a different RTP iversion than casino Y - ie if the slot comes in different RTP options, one casino may have the 94% version, another casino may be running it at 96

*unless of course, it's something say, where you need to collect toward a bonus and it's (progress) saved where you left off at Casino X

As to whether a particlar game is coming up, or out, youd pretty much need to google, ask a member, see if there's an exisiting thread, or flag a specific igaming rep

 

[dionysus]

Also @trancemonkey is our resident slots guru, and @Halvor helps out
You can also check trance's slots thread answering common Qs >
Ask Me Anything about Slots (AMA) 2020 with Trancemonkey - Casinomeister Forum

 

[Jono777]

Whatever they tell you, the answer is the opposite

 

[degerardo]

ahahah! I am counting on it! But some honest answers will be great to get.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note - renamed the thread to make Google happy

 

[snorky510238]

some honest answers will be great to get.

I don’t quite now how to break this to you buuuut.

 

[degerardo]

Thanks Admin for renaming it Just wondering if any of the providers actually have seen this and they keep quiet.

 

[snorky510238]

Thanks Admin for renaming it Just wondering if any of the providers actually have seen this and they keep quiet.

Probably ran a mile.

 

[justdoit]

all providers are off till 2022 ?

 

[Halvor]

Hello Providers
A few question I'd like to ask and I think the community will be interested to hear them as well

I love slots - especially - NetEnt, Relax, NoLimit, Red Tiger-only Gonzo Megaways, Pirates Plenty series and Piggy Riches Megaways.
So, I'd like to ask:
1. If I play slot from ONE provider with 10000 spins, I lose 5000 Euros - leave the game and go to other game from same provider - it is starting as completely new beginning session for that new slot from the same provider, or is it counted as - from same provider across multiple slots and counting spins/wins/loses/bonuses?

2. Same kind of question but for the same slot played. If I play 10000 spins, losing 5000Euros, leave the game - come back to the same game next day, is it gonna continue where I left? I mean in number of spins, RTP, bonuses/wins/loses? Or it is starting as new beginning? I am referring to the RTP of slot, or that "random" bonus landing, wins, loses?

3. I did try from one provider a thing - I did play until I get bonus, then leave the game, go to another one from same provider, land another bonus leave, go to 3rd game - land the bonus, leave, go to 4th and 5th game landed bonus... then I went back one by one to play the bonuses. The results were kind of the same.. is it all connected between the games, or is it completely separate "random" bonus wins?

4. Across 3 or 4 different casinos - playing the same game at the same time (lets say 4. of them - I did run the test on it-results are in different thread) does the same provider applies wins, timing of bonuses, number of spins to across same slot in different casinos with same person account? IP address check?

5. Is the counting of getting bonus across all the bets? Or in the same bet? I mean, if I play 1Euro bet - 700spins without bonus, then if I go to bet 5Euros it will keep counting 701..702.. until it reach the number of spins to get bonus, or it starts again from "0" spins? <- Then if so - If I go back down to 1Euro spins - it will continue on that bet counting? Or again from "0"?

6. Is Money Train 3 happening??? Any New Pirate's Plenty series game in works? Or any new Dead or Alive 2 sequel? Or any sequel to Fire in the Hole? Dragon Tribe?

Thank you very much! I know these question are probably very inside the core of providers, but any answer will be amazing to get

1,2,3,4 & 5.

The slots do not have memory, the outcome of any given spin is not affected by the outcome of your session, previous bets or what you had for breakfast. The likelihood of winning remains the same for each spin and is decided by the maths of the game and the RNG outcome.

The RTP of a game is based on milkions millions or billions of simulated rounds, and is not based on individual players. Some will be unlucky and have a lower RTP just as others will be lucky and have a significantly higher RTP on the same game.

Just because a game got a expected hit rate of 1 in 200 for the bonus for example, does not mean you are guaranteed to hit that, it can be significantly lower or higher. Obviously the more spins you do, the closer to the expected RTP you will get, but a sample of a few thousand game rounds do not archive it.

This is also quite self explanatory, if you were guaranteed to reach the expected RTP on such a small sample of spins, everyone would consistently lose x% of their balance most sessions. And shockingly we as a industry want players to win, not constantly lose.

If you want a more balanced game play, then I strongly suggest playing games with lower volatility.

Probably ran a mile.

Or you know, it's the middle of a holiday, and the two only people tagged in this thread post as individuals and not on behalf of a company. And do not work for any of the companies mentioned by the OP. Might also be nice to remember that CM offer a unique chance for players to ask questions to the industry, but we are not obliged to be here, and most of us spend our spare time doing so.

Pretty much everything asked here have also been explained to death by Trance and occasionally others before.

 

[aceking123]

1,2,3,4 & 5.

The slots do not have memory, the outcome of any given spin is not affected by the outcome of your session, previous bets or what you had for breakfast. The likelihood of winning remains the same for each spin and is decided by the maths of the game and the RNG outcome.

The RTP of a game is based on milkions millions or billions of simulated rounds, and is not based on individual players. Some will be unlucky and have a lower RTP just as others will be lucky and have a significantly higher RTP on the same game.

Just because a game got a expected hit rate of 1 in 200 for the bonus for example, does not mean you are guaranteed to hit that, it can be significantly lower or higher. Obviously the more spins you do, the closer to the expected RTP you will get, but a sample of a few thousand game rounds do not archive it.

This is also quite self explanatory, if you were guaranteed to reach the expected RTP on such a small sample of spins, everyone would consistently lose x% of their balance most sessions. And shockingly we as a industry want players to win, not constantly lose.

If you want a more balanced game play, then I strongly suggest playing games with lower volatility.


Or you know, it's the middle of a holiday, and the two only people tagged in this thread post as individuals and not on behalf of a company. And do not work for any of the companies mentioned by the OP. Might also be nice to remember that CM offer a unique chance for players to ask questions to the industry, but we are not obliged to be here, and most of us spend our spare time doing so.

Pretty much everything asked here have also been explained to death by Trance and occasionally others before.

I have a single question for you & I'm pretty sure you wont have the answer to it, as its never been answered in full, but shall ask anyway.

I would like to know what is transferred whilst loading games & what the gaming servers get ??
No one seems to have any fully explanation to what really is sent ???
Cheers

 

[Halvor]

I have a single question for you & I'm pretty sure you wont have the answer to it, as its never been answered in full, but shall ask anyway.

I would like to know what is transferred whilst loading games & what the gaming servers get ??
No one seems to have any fully explanation to what really is sent ???
Cheers

Do you mean what the casino send to the provider?

I can only comment on what I've seen myself, and for all I know it might differ. But generally speaking it's limited to what's needed. Country/location, the players game ID/number for that provider with the specific casino, currency etc.

The player specific details as name, DOB, address etc are not shared.

 

[aceking123]

Yes I mean what packages are sent from my side to casino then to provider, it seems far more than you've said, I understand the global point.

Would be interesting to know what else is sent from casino side do we all have a unique number ?? Does this change upon opening every single game opened up ?

Do we get a unique number at every casino etc etc

Cheers in advance if you can shed anymore light on the subject ?

 

[aceking123]

.

 

[aceking123]

.

 

[aceking123]

.

 

[aceking123]

Opps server error ......

 

[Jono777]

...was going to say, asking three times won't get us any closer to the truth

 

[Jono777]

...was going to say, asking three times won't get us any closer to the truth

 

[Jono777]

...was going to say, asking three times won't get us any closer to the truth

 

[aceking123]

Lol yer something is wrong........

 

[Halvor]

Yes I mean what packages are sent from my side to casino then to provider, it seems far more than you've said, I understand the global point.

Would be interesting to know what else is sent from casino side do we all have a unique number ?? Does this change upon opening every single game opened up ?

Do we get a unique number at every casino etc etc

Cheers in advance if you can shed anymore light on the subject ?

There's different technical solutions, and been a few years since I've been on the casino end of the industry.

But your account will for example have a unique casino specific ID generated the first time you open a game from the provider. The ID does not carry over to other casinos.

 

[degerardo]

Thank you Halvor. I really appreciate your reply!
I have recently played one game - it was to me and my experience the most extreme Ive ever had, so I will put here also an extreme example.
If every single spin is random - regardless any events that happened before new spin ( i.e. bonuses, max win, loosin twice max win..trillion of spins), even changing the bet up and down, or open game/close the game.. its always pure random..
That means by an extreme example:
If bonus hit is 1 out of 200 spins.. so 1 spin is a bonus spin, 199 are non bonus spins..
If all the events above are random - can I be constanty and lifetime in the 199 spins and never hit a bonus game in a trillion spins? Because I can be in that cycle of 199 spins.. but, by the extreme, I can be always and every time on that 1 spin that is bonus spin.. right? Hitting bonus every single spin - I know, Im taking this into most extreme example, but it can be like that right? If every single spin is random no matter what events were happening before that new spin.
Same for max wins, right? I can never hit it, but I can be that most lucky person in the world, stars lined up, full moon, flowers in the garden.. and hit 50 times max win out of 50 spins, right?
And all doesn't matter if I swich from bet 0.20 to bet 10 and back - it doesn't affect the new spin I do, every single time?
If so - then what's thr point of saying the stats, if they cannot be correct and nobody can predict random events as they comes randomly?
Unless behind all of this, there is a setup to the random events some sort of code - "bug"- but then they are not really random then..but set by the provider and manipulate the whole game..

 

[snorky510238]

The answer will be “yes” every outcome is possible on every spin but in truth that is not the case. Software is programmed to not allow this to happen.

 

[Halvor]

Thank you Halvor. I really appreciate your reply!
I have recently played one game - it was to me and my experience the most extreme Ive ever had, so I will put here also an extreme example.
If every single spin is random - regardless any events that happened before new spin ( i.e. bonuses, max win, loosin twice max win..trillion of spins), even changing the bet up and down, or open game/close the game.. its always pure random..
That means by an extreme example:
If bonus hit is 1 out of 200 spins.. so 1 spin is a bonus spin, 199 are non bonus spins..
If all the events above are random - can I be constanty and lifetime in the 199 spins and never hit a bonus game in a trillion spins? Because I can be in that cycle of 199 spins.. but, by the extreme, I can be always and every time on that 1 spin that is bonus spin.. right? Hitting bonus every single spin - I know, Im taking this into most extreme example, but it can be like that right? If every single spin is random no matter what events were happening before that new spin.
Same for max wins, right? I can never hit it, but I can be that most lucky person in the world, stars lined up, full moon, flowers in the garden.. and hit 50 times max win out of 50 spins, right?
And all doesn't matter if I swich from bet 0.20 to bet 10 and back - it doesn't affect the new spin I do, every single time?
If so - then what's thr point of saying the stats, if they cannot be correct and nobody can predict random events as they comes randomly?
Unless behind all of this, there is a setup to the random events some sort of code - "bug"- but then they are not really random then..but set by the provider and manipulate the whole game..

Tbh I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this.

The RTP is controlled by pre determined maths, and the individual spin is decided by the RNG. The stats are based on the pre defined maths, nothing you do impact the probability of the game.

So yes, you can technically speaking never hit the max win, but you can also hit it twice in the row. If the likelihood of a max win hit is 1 in 1.000.000, that's the chance on each spin. Just because you've had 999.999 spins without a max win, does not mean you are guaranteed to get it on the next spin on soon.

The stats are stated because they're factual, and calculated on a large sample size.

 

[Halvor]

The answer will be “yes” every outcome is possible on every spin but in truth that is not the case. Software is programmed to not allow this to happen.

As always there's absolutely no point trying to communicate with you, but please make my day and for once try to back up your claims with something that resembles logic or facts.

It's these kind of replies that leads to me being less and less willing to try and explain things on the forum.

 

[degerardo]

I am just trying to get clear picture of understanding the events on games - how they follow on each other. Big win VS losing, bonus spin VS non bonus spin. Because I cannot find any answers to it - how changing bets, amount of spins, losing, winning affect next spins events on the same game. But if they are not at all affected of previous event happened, and every single spin is generated as random - then I've got your answer and I appreciate it.

 

[snorky510238]

As always there's absolutely no point trying to communicate with you, but please make my day and for once try to back up your claims with something that resembles logic or facts.

It's these kind of replies that leads to me being less and less willing to try and explain things on the forum.

And I have yet to see your proof of what you claim is fact. It cuts both ways you know.

 

[dionysus]

And I have yet to see your proof of what you claim is fact. It cuts both ways you know.

The problem though, is, as trance has pointed out before, noone can put up any proofs, for a whole bunch of real-world reasons, IPs, NDA's, professional courtesy, getting their asses sued to the moon and back, career-killing.

And yeah, it's about faith - in the person who's giving you the answers.
Tance and Halvor don't flog their wares here, so they've nothing to gain by giving circumspect answers.
They simply help and answer as and where they can.

It's a bit like saying, ok, but I want to know what the 11 herbs and spices are in my KFC chicken leg. People who know, aint gonna say. You'd simply have to reverse-engineer, be in the inside yourself, or, in the case of the spices, find it somewhere online and hope it's correct.

 

[dionysus]

Her's another way to look at it.
Think of helpful reps here; ones in the industry forever, whom we all talk to and go to for answers.
Most are familiar with other insider heavies..owners, developers etc.
and many of them are out there playing at online casinos as well, outside their own properties (even reps and managers are players too).
I can't imagine theyre out spending their money on slots they think are wobbly.

 

[pinnit2014]

The problem though, is, as trance has pointed out before, noone can put up any proofs, for a whole bunch of real-world reasons, IPs, NDA's, professional courtesy, getting their asses sued to the moon and back, career-killing.

And yeah, it's about faith - in the person who's giving you the answers.
Tance and Halvor don't flog their wares here, so they've nothing to gain by giving circumspect answers.
They simply help and answer as and where they can.

It's a bit like saying, ok, but I want to know what the 11 herbs and spices are in my KFC chicken leg. People who know, aint gonna say. You'd simply have to reverse-engineer, be in the inside yourself, or, in the case of the spices, find it somewhere online and hope it's correct.

I can answer that:

It's not chicken.

Qualification to give opinion: 1000 plus Boneless Banquets and copious tubs of gravy.

 

[snorky510238]

Her's another way to look at it.
Think of helpful reps here; ones in the industry forever, whom we all talk to and go to for answers.
Most are familiar with other insider heavies..owners, developers etc.
and many of them are out there playing at online casinos as well, outside their own properties (even reps and managers are players too).
I can't imagine theyre out spending their money on slots they think are wobbly.

You’re far too trusting but young I suppose.

 

[abuyang]

Another one lost in the secrets of the black box called slots. As with any black box - it is full of surprises. Mostly the bad ones. Still exciting, though.

 

[dionysus]

I'm a half century old and been around the planet a few times..but if I can maintain a relatively good more few years before I hose down passer-by and scream 'get off muh lawn' I'm cool with that :

 

[justdoit]

Tbh I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this.

The RTP is controlled by pre determined maths, and the individual spin is decided by the RNG. The stats are based on the pre defined maths, nothing you do impact the probability of the game.

So yes, you can technically speaking never hit the max win, but you can also hit it twice in the row. If the likelihood of a max win hit is 1 in 1.000.000, that's the chance on each spin. Just because you've had 999.999 spins without a max win, does not mean you are guaranteed to get it on the next spin on soon.

The stats are stated because they're factual, and calculated on a large sample size.

not sure how they can hit twice in the row? nolimit game are 1 in 6m max win pay or money train is 1 in 8m max pay

 

[degerardo]

not sure how they can hit twice in the row? nolimit game are 1 in 6m max win pay or money train is 1 in 8m max pay

I think the same way like not hitting bonus in 10k spins lol
- as a theory only - true of never ever it happened twice in a row, is somewhere in their new codes of latest games released, which they will probably never answer at all. But the obvious thing is, that they have two meters for different things in their games runs. And with doing my tests on their games (different threads) even tho I did say okay to it - I dont believe their stats and that every single spin is a random one and it is not following event before(win, lose, number of spins played, bonus hit...etc)

 

[Halvor]

not sure how they can hit twice in the row? nolimit game are 1 in 6m max win pay or money train is 1 in 8m max pay

If the odds of hitting is 1 in 6 million, it's 1 in 6 million on every spin. Not sure what's unclear about that.

 

[justdoit]

If the odds of hitting is 1 in 6 million, it's 1 in 6 million on every spin. Not sure what's unclear about that.

so not chance hit twice in the row as you sad

 

[justdoit]

same win

5 years ago



last year

 

[Halvor]

so not chance hit twice in the row as you sad

Care to elaborate?

 

[brianmon]

so not chance hit twice in the row as you sad

There's a very very very small chance of doing it. But it is possible.

Just like, there's no reason why you couldn't win the lottery twice in two weeks, although the odds of winning the lottery are probably better than winning the max payout on an NCL slot

 

[justdoit]

There's a very very very small chance of doing it. But it is possible.

Just like, there's no reason why you couldn't win the lottery twice in two weeks, although the odds of winning the lottery are probably better than winning the max payout on an NCL slot

I dont think providers will let u hit twice max win on same day, sometime I watch crypto streamer they spend 1000s all day long trying to hit one time max win, they fail all time, so playing normal game without bonus buy is no chance to even hit one time max win...
P.s not sure if nolimit sad 1 in 6m spins max win or one bonus in 6m will pay max win

 

[dionysus]

I dont think providers will let u hit twice max win on same day, sometime I watch crypto streamer they spend 1000s all day long trying to hit one time max win, they fail all time, so playing normal game without bonus buy is no chance to even hit one time max win...
P.s not sure if nolimit sad 1 in 6m spins max win or one bonus in 6m will pay max win

it really has nothing to do with the providers dictating when and where; the maths simply dictate it's highly unlikely enough to happen
There's been new operators hit with a gut-punch where a new player at a new casino has hit a massive win..it happens, but happens rarely.

 

[degerardo]

Well, they do whatever they can, to trick you with BS stats and whatever they say about the game - if 1 in 200 on True Grit is bonus hit ratio (as they state it) and I did get one bonus only in 15.400 spins (many other players complain about this game as well) then 1 in 6mil is either impossible for normal player, or it is adjust for streamers to hit it for the show. Or they adjust it to their employees using fake usernames to trigger it. Saying, that normal player hit the max win.. we don't see the coding what it does and how the math works in the game

 

[justdoit]

it really has nothing to do with the providers dictating when and where; the maths simply dictate it's highly unlikely enough to happen
There's been new operators hit with a gut-punch where a new player at a new casino has hit a massive win..it happens, but happens rarely.

well my self never see anyone in UK win Max win on @Nolimit games

 

[dionysus]

well my self never see anyone in UK win Max win on @Nolimit games

well, as has been pointed out, it's rather akin to hitting the lottery - -fair chance you'll never see it in your lifetime

 

[justdoit]

well, as has been pointed out, it's rather akin to hitting the lottery - -fair chance you'll never see it in your lifetime

well I win one time Lottery but not in UK in USA mega Lottery

 

[deleted20230517]

In my experience, the only random there is is when i'm allowed to win, other then being robbed from my funds as quickly as possible. There's no schedule in when your hot day is, but when it happens its usually all across the board. I just select the game i enjoy most and start playing it while knowing i'm on a hot streak.

This hot streak, however does have it's certain limit, and it has a few key factors. My deposit history, my withdrawl history, and my avg bet or spending on a game. Who-ever said that internet gambling was linked to a provider and all that is kind of false. Also, the amount of deposit i do, seems to favor a bit of my luck (or not).

Try it. 3x 50, 5x 30 or 150 all in once. You'll have a not so random and more like predictable outcome. I just cant and dont believe that it's truely random other then when my day supposed to be. If you do happen to exceed a few big wins and your not hitting withdrawl, for some reason i can kick the ball in a next winning session a bit more higher.

But overal; it's nothing big out of the ordinary because when you start comparing deposits vs true withdrawls, your always magically in between the 96% plus some variance. I think my highest x was 26000x. My highest jackpot was a 38k win or so with Fruit party. <
Kicked it to over 120k in one day of playing spread over 2 casino's. Frankly even with my regular gameplay, nothing seems to hit. I wonder why.



Here's the 26000x win on a 90 cents bet.

 

[degerardo]

In my experience, the only random there is is when i'm allowed to win, other then being robbed from my funds as quickly as possible. There's no schedule in when your hot day is, but when it happens its usually all across the board. I just select the game i enjoy most and start playing it while knowing i'm on a hot streak.

This hot streak, however does have it's certain limit, and it has a few key factors. My deposit history, my withdrawl history, and my avg bet or spending on a game. Who-ever said that internet gambling was linked to a provider and all that is kind of false. Also, the amount of deposit i do, seems to favor a bit of my luck (or not).

Try it. 3x 50, 5x 30 or 150 all in once. You'll have a not so random and more like predictable outcome. I just cant and dont believe that it's truely random other then when my day supposed to be. If you do happen to exceed a few big wins and your not hitting withdrawl, for some reason i can kick the ball in a next winning session a bit more higher.

But overal; it's nothing big out of the ordinary because when you start comparing deposits vs true withdrawls, your always magically in between the 96% plus some variance. I think my highest x was 26000x. My highest jackpot was a 38k win or so with Fruit party. <
Kicked it to over 120k in one day of playing spread over 2 casino's. Frankly even with my regular gameplay, nothing seems to hit. I wonder why.



Here's the 26000x win on a 90 cents bet.

Wow, thats very nice wins and also very nice experience answer. It is kind of same for me.. like.. there is that one day of hitting big. Last time I had one try a two weeks ago on three different casinos at the same time play over one full day, from morning till midnight. Full day of play and in all of them I did hit over 2.500x bet on higher bets. 2 and 4. And that big hit was 2x on each casino, so basically 6x of 2.500x bet. Amazing session. Then whole week was nothing, but I am not stupid and I did went to bet 0.4, to 1 max. So I end up in nice +
Also yes, irs funny what happened to me like.. I did deposit 40 euros, went to Pirates Plenty Megaways, bet 2 Euros and hit the two wilds 6x and 5x on base game - 1500x bet. I went to other casino, did the same thing. Deposit 60 - saying lets try it out.. and boom.. on bet 2, one wild lady and the monkey at the same time, took all low symbols and paid 3200x bet.