Betzest voids 3500 euro balance legit?

[Crazy7]

I have been a customer for a while and didn't have any problems with playing and cashing out at betzest until this weekend they unjustified confiscated 3500 euro in my opinion. I am not sure if I am in the wrong.


The maximum bet size with a bonus is 3 euro which I totally respected. I didn't bet more then 2.5 euro.

"After withdrawing a small amount. I get the email which quoted " Unless stated otherwise on the specific bonus landing pages, all Bonuses in the Casino have got a max bet restriction in place of €3 per game round"

After to found out what happened I got the message " You have bet 59.5 euro, 47.5 euro, 32.5 euro on the game Lucky Leprechauns Loot with your Bonus money. "

I checked my play history and indeed I did play that slot never the less I never bet more then 2.5 So I checked my game history and I found that I made 3 big bet sizes on the slot I triggered the retry freespins feature. I attached a picture to show this feature after winning the free spins have ended with a 2.5 betsize you can choose to replay the freespins. After choosing that feature your winnings start on 0 and you get 15 new free spins with the betsize of 2.5 euro. There inner gameplay shows it was a betsize of the FULL free spin amount I further explain:

Picture 1 choose to replay the free spins

2. Next picture shows that I am ONLY betting 2.5 euro on the slot when I win in the first free spins and I win 59.5 euro then i click on replay the freespins ( this will set my freepins winning on 0 and replay the free spins) after replay the free spins it will give you 15 free spins with a bet size of 2.5 euro on that free spin I won a amount of 94 euro.

So my TOTAL win of this free spins is 94 euro bet size 2.5 euro NOT 153.5 with a bet size of 59.5!

Is it legit to void my winnings, for the casino technically I never bet more then 2.5 euro al though the system shows I betted more. I never intend to do this and if I had know I would never chose the feature of course.

I hope the forum can help me out understand there decision and if they are legit. The casino only want to offer me the same bonus offer 100% 100 bonus and will not revise there decision

 

[anddi32]

So my TOTAL win of this free spins is 94 euro bet size 2.5 euro NOT 153.5 with a bet size of 59.5!

Is it legit to void my winnings, for the casino technically I never bet more then 2.5 euro al though the system shows I betted more. I never intend to do this and if I had know I would never chose the feature of course.

There is something wrong with the system. It's sure thing that your first free spins-win can't be bet size for the second free spins. Your bet size in both features should be 2,5 euros.

Maybe you should ask them to check your game history once again. If not working i guess it's PAB or MGA-complaint time. In my mind this case is clear as crystal water. Casino is wrong.


You can find Betzest REP here in casinomeister but last login shows june so maybe doesn't help

 

[Crazy7]

Yeah my question here is. The "rebuy" function supposed to count for a 59.5 bet size Because that is my first freespin win I click on the rebuy feature and the system shows I betting 59.5 doesn't supposed to count for 1 big bet of 59.5 or a double up feature. Because I never bet over 2.5. It just a reset in my opinion.

I am kind of new to online casinos so thats why I have a question to this forum and want to know what you guys think

 

[Betzest_Casino]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

 

[Crazy7]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Thank you for responding on this open forum. In the screenshot as you can see I don't gain anything doing these "replay freespins" wager I even get less money back!
I am a player that like to take a gamble sometime and I thought it was fun to re-do my free spins because I won a little bit to less than I wanted to win and I get penalized for doing that even that the optics are real clear on the slot, no sign of RE-bet your full win free spins amount. Its literally saying "replay freespins" which means start from zero and try it again. Even the bet size of 2.5 is not higher as 3 euro as in your terms. There is no clear benefit for me re-betting my original win 57 euro and then start from a zero win balance.

I find it a bit harsh for a casino to force this rule even it looks like a big bet in your system it was never a big bet with an advantage or intension to bet so big technically I didn't bet over 2.5. Also its nowhere stated that I bet my full winning amount (or doubling up)

I hope as a sovereign casino you can tell the casino meister community how other players can know these kinds of things. I still don't agree with the decision as I am totally unaware of betting the full free spin amount! My big wins were made with totally different games and slots, it just looks like a reason not to pay out my winnings.

 

[paul7388]

SO

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Sorry but that is a totally wrong reply.

I think you need to contact MG and ask them how their slots work.

I am the first to tell people sorry you have broke terms and whether it is right or not the casino habit in their terms so you will not get paid.

But in this case the player broke no terms. Even if a MG is adding the winnings as they occur the slot gives you a chance to forfeit winnings and play the free spins again. On doing so the balance corrects and you replay the spins which could well mean you earn less.

But in no way are you placing another bet and certainly not a high bet. This all occurs on original spin bet. MG slots also add money to your balance before a gamble feature. If you lose gamble it is removed again.

This all comes down to the way MG slots work. Other providers will not add winnings to balance until feature is finished one way or the other.

So I think you should be contacting MG and asking them how the slots work as this player played the game genuinely and has not broken any terms.

The player should not be punished due to a casino not understanding how a slot works.

I normally tell players well you broke terms so up to casino but in this case casino is totally wrong.

As to the OP I would either do a PAB here or take it further as it is an open shut case. The Rep has explained reasons why they stopped winnings and as they are totally wrong and clear from their reply you never broke terms should be no way you can lose .

 

[Crazy7]

Thank you for the responses and explanations, I wasn't sure if I did anything wrong. I was just using the feature of the slot, hope I can settle it with the casino manager. If else I will try to do a PAB like Paul recommended.

 

[curremon]

IMO casino is wrong .at this one... And if you re-play spins like in that medusa megaways game it shouldnt make it towards wagering, only that original 2,5€ should be counted by the system or otherwise its screwed up...

 

[anddi32]

IMO casino is wrong .at this one... And if you re-play spins like in that medusa megaways game it shouldnt make it towards wagering, only that original 2,5€ should be counted by the system or otherwise its screwed up...

Yes excactly. Casino's logic in this case is totally weird. Re-try-feature is inside the bonus feature and it should count only 2,5e wager (that spin where bonus triggered). I don't know why that re-try-second chance counted as wager. It's so silly because bet in re-try-feature never was 59.5 euros. It was one 2,5e all the time.

This is totally wrong decision to void players money because this. the player has acted just right. If you have some problem with these kind of features (and no, this is not any double up-feature this is second chance feature where player hand over first result and take risk for another) you should ban these slots from playing with bonus money.

I really hope betzest understand that you are wrong and player get his / her money.

 

[lnspin]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Totally wrong answer.. Another casino manager that does not understand slots..

 

[curremon]

@Betzest_Casino check this again... you are totally wrong

 

[Mouche12]

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Oh, alrighty then. No inconvenience at all, and if I were the OP I'd be overjoyed with being a member of Betzest too!

 

[KasinoKing]

Thank you for the responses and explanations, I wasn't sure if I did anything wrong. I was just using the feature of the slot, hope I can settle it with the casino manager. If else I will try to do a PAB like Paul recommended.

You are completely in the right and the casino is completely wrong.
Hopefully the casino will see sense and so avoid wasting Max's time on this open & shut case.

KK

 

[Toronion]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

This is totaly absurd, pay the money to the player.

 

[Playford7]

@Betzest_Casino

You have not a leg to stand on here, even if you were a pirate with a wooden leg..

pay your customer as they have not put a foot wrong..

Also as this is your job I’d take researching slots and the payouts a little more seriously as it’s kind of how you get paid.

 

[CasinoNinja]

This freespins replay function is in alot of games!

Medusa Megaways, Chameleonaire, Kingspins Crowns, Ooh Aah Dracula, Boulder Bucks.

Seriously, check these slots out @Betzest_Casino and see that this is a genuine function inside the games, if Microgaming is counting it as wagering then you need to sort that out with the provider. This is not the OPs fault at all!

 

[colinsunderland]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Wow, I hope everyone avoids your casino.

If someone plays a game like who wants to be a millionaire and gambles the free spins, do you void their winnings too, as they are using a feature within the game to try to increase their winnings?

 

[curremon]

@Betzest_Casino online 35min ago and no comment ?

 

[The Viking]

@Betzest_Casino online 35min ago and no comment ?

?? they have made a comment and most likely are going to stick to it (for whatever reason ) so only think left for OP is to PAB as i cant see how the player could possible be wrong here

 

[curremon]

?? they have made a comment and most likely are going to stick to it (for whatever reason ) so only think left for OP is to PAB as i cant see how the player could possible be wrong here

So they on purpose want to waste peoples time on case whats most clear in ages... If they just check how game works and then pay the player... no pab needed ..

 

[trancemonkey]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Form someone that works in the industry and has to work with the rules and regulations regularly, i find this answer extremely worrying, and factually incorrect. The fact their system shows the free spins round as a "re-buy" is not the customers fault - the game does NOT display this as "buying a feature" but displays it as simply being offered the chance to turn down the initial win and replay the free games. In fact, until the player refuses to take this offer, the money should not have been banked.

As you are well aware, according to the technical standards in almost all jurisdictions i am aware of, it MUST be clear to the player when the game starts and ends and what the bet value is - the total bet MUST be clearly shown. In this situation, the bet size is clearly shown as €2,50 and nowhere on the screen does it show the value of the feature being used as a wager. Therefore, you are legally incorrect as well as morally incorrect.

The section in bold also refers to "any other feature within a game to increase win values". As you are well aware, in a situation where a game offers you a chance to replay the free games, you cannot rightfully assume that a player would in any situation consider this to be in breach of your terms and conditions as it is an integral part of the game design. With this term, you could even argue that a "double down" on Blackjack was a breach of terms which of course would never hold up in court, as it's an integral part of the game design (whereas a gamble such as a red/black is arguably not).

I don't know what jurisdiction you are operating in, but here are the technical standards from the UKGC Remote Gaming Technical Standards:

"RTS implementation guidance 2A a. The financial commitment for each gamble should be displayed somewhere on the screen either in the currency of the customer’s account or in the currency of the product."
This value is NOT shown to the player (as far as i can see in the game) as the financial commitment that you say the OP was aware of.

Of course, if you can prove that the OP was purposely using this to beat the wagering, and this was not the only time they did something like this AND that they were aware of this, then you may have a point BUT the fact remains that the game does NOT show the replay as a wager, nor does it tell you you are wagering the total amount won from the free games, and this would simply not pass any legal test - so your claims are baseless and without grounds.

So i'm not sure how you can defend this...

 

[Nate]

This is not cool Betzest

I have alerted Marius (Ex-Redbet) to this thread. He can resolve this and save his brand some face.

Nate

 

[Nate]

Edited:

Marius is looking into it - There seems to have been a misunderstanding. The quote of An Army - was meant to be relayed as they had helped to get their terms approved.

Lets hope he can help to resolve this.

Nate

 

[colinsunderland]

These should be rogue not grey zoned if this is how they operate
@Casinomeister

 

[trancemonkey]

Well I have a reply already - I can assure you that times and people have changed - Not for the better. I've been told there are enough people to deal with this issue including 'An Army of Lawyers' .... I'll just leave it there.

Please, if the Casino Manager cannot or will not listen - then please PAB and cease posting here.

Submit a complaint

Nate

EDIT: Based on the edit above, I retract this statement for now...

 

[Betzest_Casino]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.

 

[paul7388]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.

Quite staggered by that answer to be honest.

Many members here have politely explained to you how that slot works including members that work in the industry.

Yet your response is still to come back with same reply as at the beginning.

Sorry but you are completely wrong on how that slot works. Really feel so bad at way that player has been treated .

For last time he has done nothing wrong. The way that slot goes you can collect your winnings or retry knowing you could most likely win less . So many have explained how it works and you still come back saying the player abused the bonus.

Sorry but first rule of being a casino owner should be to understand how the slots work.

Dont normally do this but @Casinomeister should a casino like this not be rogued. The Rep has openly said they will not pay a player for the wrong reason. It has been explained by many that actually know how slots work that he is wrong.

Yet still he says he is right and player abused it. Totally wrong and as rogue behaviour as you can get.

Normally I am easy going but this whole thing stinks. The fact he is telling all the members here their opinions are biased just because they tried to explain nicely how the slot works. Sorry but that casino is a total and utter joke.

 

[colinsunderland]

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech.

Rubbish, there was no biased argumentation. Replaying a bonus should not fall foul of that type of rule.

Notice you didn't address my question, if a player wins 8 free spins on say Who Wants To Be A Millionaire or Extra Chilli, then gamble it, that is doing exactly what your terms say you can't, so would those winnings be voided?

As for offensive, if you scam players, then what do you expect? Everyone to say how great you are?

 

[paul7388]

@Crazy7 I would do a PAB against this casino right away. You might not win it as casino seems to be not willing to pay winnings and might not cooperate with @maxd but I would still try.

Hopefully you will get paid but if not at least casino will get shown for what they are and rogued. Really still shocked at Reps response to the matter.

 

[maxd]

FTR, the PAB process starts here: Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

 

[SpinUk]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.

When I read the Trancemonkey response I thought hmm lets see if the Casino leaps on the wagering aspect as a reason not to pay.


And sure enough you have. However I think you need to work on the logic of this-:

“Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering”.

I think you need to re-examine the meaning of “easily” in this context - 130 euros is a tiny contribution.

The fact that you have the chutzpah to put this forward as serious reason not to pay the OP is both ludicrous and disgusting. The fact that your happy to alienate and insult the intelligence of established community members here, as well as an experienced game developer with that reason is even worse.

 

[The Dude]

Well - looking at this problem at the surface - did the player increase his bet size beyond the allowed €3 wager? If not, he did not breach the terms.

If the mechanics of the slot allows for free spins to be respun or whatever, then those features should have been disabled - this is the year 2020, and this can be done. If it can't be disabled, then WARN THE PLAYER beforehand, or disallow the the slot game.

The player did not select his wagering to go beyond €3, so in my opinion, there was no breach of terms on the player's part.

This is truly a disappointing response from a casino manager. I don't understand why this is not clear.

 

[CasinoNinja]

@Betzest_Casino Please please go play Medusa Megaways and trigger a bonus, where you also get a chance to replay for bonus once more and tell me that a purposely place mechanic in the game is cheating? Or go and play Ooh Aah Dracula and Boulder Bucks and trigger more than 1 heart or 1 pick and tell me what you call that.

It's a game mechanic built into the slot.
The issue you have is that somehow Microgaming is adding that to the players balance, I get that. But it's not the players fault, you should again bring that up with the provider, or you know block the game so it can't be launched when playing with bonus money?

This again is still not the players fault. I still think you should pay him the whole amount.
But if I could suggest a meet in the middle way, is that you put the 3500 euros back into his account with a wager of 130 euros which you say he managed to wager from those 3 bonuses and then he can wager that on other games.

I still don't think it's fair, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Kroffe]

So according to the rep, the "replay the feature" option makes the previous winnings the stake for the new feature.
So i guess that means if i play at €2/spin and win €50 in a feature, when i choose to replay it, the second feature will pay me according to a €50 spin instead of a €2 spin.
Because thats how the rep explains it.

But we all know that is not how it works, not at all.
The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.

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[anddi32]

The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.

I can't understand how this simple fact is so difficult to understand on the casino side. Bet has never changed and the player has not used any double up-feature etc etc.

This case is already beginning to take on comic features. This all can't be so hard to understand simple case if betzest wants to keep it simple. Pay the money and say sorry we were wrong. That's it

 

[SpinUk]

So according to the rep, the "replay the feature" option makes the previous winnings the stake for the new feature.
So i guess that means if i play at €2/spin and win €50 in a feature, when i choose to replay it, the second feature will pay me according to a €50 spin instead of a €2 spin.
Because thats how the rep explains it.

But we all know that is not how it works, not at all.
The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.

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How would Deal or no Deal work? Thats exactly the same mechanic - or is that game banned as well for the same reason.

 

[L&L-Jan]

As far as I can see the mentioned games are not available at the particular casino. Meaning, there is no way to compare how bets/win etc are handled from a game providers point of view. So the casino can't compare them.

Also, I'll leave my personal opinion out of this topic

 

[Crazy7]

FTR, the PAB process starts here: Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

Sorry this discussion is way over my head I am just a player who was concerned or this was the right decision of the casino. The forum gives the best feedback as of the players and casino-affiliate expertise. I went forward with the PAB process. Thanks for all the clear opinions.

 

[curremon]

Sorry this discussion is way over my head I am just a player who was concerned or this was the right decision of the casino. The forum gives the best feedback as of the players and casino-affiliate expertise. I went forward with the PAB process. Thanks for all the clear opinions.

Remember to obey pab rules so shhhhh until pab is done

 

[Nate]

Hi Everybody, .....

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions ....

You can have the best promotions in the world. When you lack the patience and understanding of this industry, you do both yourself - and your players a great disservice.

The player seems to have gone the route of complaining - i'll leave it be.

Nate

 

[thr0b]

I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)

 

[colinsunderland]

I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)

But by re-trying you are basically voiding the first bonus. Your bet isn't 59.
In a gamble it's obvious your 'bet' for the game is the current winnings, in this game you are 'resetting' the bonus for a 2nd chance.

regarding the WWTBAM example, the term they are using to void the wagering is '

“Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values”

So gambling the free spins is clearly against the rules, despite BTG stating gambling them is the best strategy.

I don't know if they are serving BTG games, but plenty of others use the same type of thing, something to increase the value of the bonus, like for example the no limit book game, where you can reduce the number of spins, to increase the win lines.

If they are going to void bonuses for using that type of feature, then those games should be in the excluded list. Games with a gamble on the end result are fine, as thats covered clearly in the terms.

 

[Kroffe]

I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)

I dont think its fair to compare it to the gamble in Book of dead.
Because the option to replay the feature does not change the stake for the new feature in any way.
If the stake for the new feature would be changed to whatever you won in the first one i would agree, but that is not the case, the bet for the new feature remains the same.

 

[dealer wins]

 

[Playford7]

View attachment 144650

I’m tempted to get my pencil out and go all John wick on them!

 

[Kroffe]

Haha, Ben Wick.

He once killed 3 streamers with a pencil....With a f*cking pencil.

 

[Gaz237]

Just when you think you have seen it all in 2020.

Along come Betzest with the lamest excuse for voiding a payment.

Then compound it, by trying to justify it by talking complete bollox.

Followed by the cherry on the cake ( or last nail in the coffin) accusing the members of a well respected gambling forum of bias for not agreeing with them.

This is going to be a very expensive £3.5k

 

[JGslots]

I think this ought to be brought to the attention of Microgaming. The back office of the game shouldn’t be operating like it’s been placed as a separate wager if the player rejects the original bonus.

It’s clearly an in-game gamble mechanic, which potentially would void a bonus if used at some casinos.

Overall, it needs addressing; pay the player, learn from the mistakes and move forward. It’s the right thing to do.

Rob

 

[dealer wins]

Its really simple, the cost of the slot spin was £2.50. Regardless of what happened until the next spin, the player would lose a max of £2.50, so not breaking any max bet of £3 rule!!!

 

[sufferinsilence]

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