Card Spike

[mojo]

I saw this posted numerous places. Not a poker player here but players should probably stay away.

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[The Dude]

Strong allegations, but where are the facts? FWIW - there have been no PABs submitted concerning this operation, and no one has posted any complaints here as well. I'm not saying that there are no aggrieved affiliates and/or players, but I am always skeptical when there is a report on many people getting stiffed.

If anyone is getting screwed over by them, they are welcome to submit their complaints here. The winter's break is about over in Casinomeisterland

 

[pokeraddict]

There are dozens of stories over the internet about this. It is a mess. Players are having cashout issues and many or most affiliates are not getting paid. Hopefully whoever is behind this (G911 reports what everyone else thinks about that) will fix it. Cake Poker has also announced they are investigating CardSpike. Hopefully they can speed up the process. CardSpike appears to be a microskin of Sportsbook.com, a group of D- sportsbooks.

 

[jetset]

As PA says, this has been running for a couple months now - CardSpike launched late last year and within a few weeks there were reports of hassles in the no-slow payment area.

The excuses given suggested classic stalling-and-cashflow-problem tactics and it seems to have degenerated further as it has become a subject of intense disciussion on major online poker message boards.

Nat Arem has gone so far as to warn readers of his blog after looking into this, and PAP fired CardSpike's ass on December 31st.

With Cake Poker also investigating, the future for CardSpike does not look good imv, and players and affiliates alike need to be cautious.

Something nasty is going on there imo - despite this site being a member of a fairly large group - Domain Holdings Limited, which owns around 17 other websites.

 

[pokeraddict]

They also had a promo at CAP where they had a giveaway for a free CAP London trip. It is safe to assume they never gave it away.

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[pokeraddict]

Also I can't remember where this was posted originally but do remember this post:

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It is quite a drama. I guess in the end the true story will come out but the shares the community belief about who owns CardSpike and who has stiffed affiliates. For sure the stiffed affiliates part is true as well as quite a few players having their own problems getting cashouts and rakeback owed. For the good of the industry I hope whoever is behind this fixes it soon. There has been no news from CardSpike or CAP/PAP about this in about 2 weeks.

 

[mojo]

Another fine mess. The first order of business should be getting people paid what is due.

edit to add: I should add that I have confidence and trust in Michael as a leader in the affiliate community. It will all work out eventually.

 

[jetset]

Also I can't remember where this was posted originally but do remember this post:

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It is quite a drama. I guess in the end the true story will come out but the shares the community belief about who owns CardSpike and who has stiffed affiliates. For sure the stiffed affiliates part is true as well as quite a few players having their own problems getting cashouts and rakeback owed. For the good of the industry I hope whoever is behind this fixes it soon. There has been no news from CardSpike or CAP/PAP about this in about 2 weeks.

I think 911 probably based their story on this GPWA forum posting:

GPWA forum -

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Michael is certainly nailing his colours to the mast in that post and presumably feels he has enough hard evidence to safely make this sort of statement, but his own directory lists Cardspike as a property in the Domain Holdings group.

Unless Cardspike is another of those excerable 'white label' deals....

 

[bonustreak]

Be nice to see hard evidence Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.

 

[The Dude]

Be nice to see hard evidence Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.

Not just players - I've never turned down a PAB for affiliates either.

PAB doors are open if anyone cares to have me or Max look into this.

 

[mojo]

Not just players - I've never turned down a PAB for affiliates either.

PAB doors are open if anyone cares to have me or Max look into this.

I didn't know affiliates could PAB. I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.

 

[The Dude]

I didn't know affiliates could PAB. I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.

And why not? I never understood why people make assumptions that webmasters/affiliates are excluded from the PAB (most are players anyway). In fact, there was one for Vegas Affiliates just a few days ago that Max seemed to have cleared up el Pronto.

If there are any aggrieved Card Spike affiliates or players, now's your chance.

 

[mojo]

And why not? I never understood why people make assumptions that webmasters/affiliates are excluded from the PAB (most are players anyway).

I can't speak for everyone but for me I saw 'player advocate' on the logo and figured it was players only. My bad.

 

[The Dude]

I can't speak for everyone but for me I saw 'player advocate' on the logo and figured it was players only. My bad.

My business cards say "casino and player advocate". Guess I should change the logo

 

[Simmo!]

I must admit, I never knew that either. But then I'm new here

 

[bonustreak]

Not just players - I've never turned down a PAB for affiliates either.

See I knew you totally rocked for a reason!

 

[Pinababy69]

I must admit, I never knew that either. But then I'm new here

Ditto Muppet Man...still trying to familiarize myself with the place and procedures. :smilewink:

 

[The Dude]

...If there are any aggrieved Card Spike affiliates or players, now's your chance.

And it's the sound of crickets chirping...

 

[KasinoKing]

I didn't know affiliates could PAB. I would definiatly use this service if the need arises. I am not a poker aff. The only time I've been stiffed (so far) is by True Earnings and they are long gone.

I PAB'd about InChilli affiliates March'07 and CM did get manage to get some funds released for me before the rest disappeared down that black hole!

I must admit, I never knew that either. But then I'm new here

Yer 'affin a laugh innit?

[/derail]

 

[pokeraddict]

Be nice to see hard evidence Also if this is the case why has none come to Meister for help? I find that a bit odd, usually this is the first stopping ground when there are any player issues.

There are dozens of stories across the internet on other portals that are not as soap opera like. These include PokerSite Scout, Poker News Daily as well as reports on several poker affiliate sites. I have suggested to several to come PAB. The reason I'm sure that it wasn't done before the suggestion is because many in the poker world do not know about CM and/or they assume it is only for casinos.

It seems the people that pushed CardSpike so hard are at least talking again so maybe this is going to work out.

 

[jetset]

I'm still troubled by the lack of substantiated fact and hard evidence here.

Undoubtedly CardSpike has been up to no good and deserves to be bashed, but the ownership question on which so much opprobrium has been heaped on the CAP people - in some cases by individuals for whom I have considerable personal respect - remains unproved as far as I can see.

Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

In the last 24 hours, CAP has broken its silence on the issue with a strong denial of ownership to complement its earlier statements by "Warren" when this started to attract attention, and the removal of the site from PAP.

This is what Lou Fabiano had to say on behalf of CAP and PAP:

"Cardspike is not controlled or managed by CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly (organizer) or Lou "The Professor" Fabiano.

"CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly, Lou "The Professor" Fabiano and all other personnel of CAP have absolutely no ownership interest, no profits interest and no beneficial interest whatsoever in Cardspike.

"Any statements or malicious rumors to the contrary are untrue and unfair."

In this sort of situation, and personalities aside, I don't know who to believe, and I suspect a growing number of other folks feel the same way.

Bryan's post #2 early in this thread pretty much sums up my own opinion at present.

 

[pokeraddict]

Almost all of the reports that I have seen on various websites are simply quoting unproved allegations regarding the ownership of CardSpike that have appeared elsewhere, or are general accusations made by individual forum members.

This is why I have tried to dodge the ownership topic in my posts as to me it is speculation and the way these things are set up are often tangled webs anyway. Fact is (was maybe as some have reported payments in the last day or two) affiliates were not getting paid and players were having their own problems as well and there is no disputing that as even posts by CardSpike at PAP admit these issues. The question of ownership, while interesting is meaningless. The only meaningful thing to me is getting people paid.

All of this horrible publicity is probably what was needed to get things set in motion. Affiliate groups organized, news sites wrote reports on the issue, players and affiliates went to forums, Cake Poker got involved, CAP/PAP turned on the heat and the owners/management of CardSpike, whoever they are, likely realized they were going to lose their entire investment if they didn't do something. I know from reading a private affiliate forum that efforts are being made and some or most are paid which is more than can be said about the last couple of months so things are headed in the right direction.

 

[jetset]

Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.

 

[The Dude]

Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments here, I believe that the ownership is of importance in an ethical sense.

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

The fact that CAP has denied the ownership allegation perhaps renders that point moot, were it not for the persistence of those who continue to claim that there is a beneficial ownership interest.

But, as you say, the most important element here is that those who have been owed for up to a couple of months are now made whole through full and timeous payments.

It does seem that once again peer pressure has worked effectively to fill the vacuum in an unregulated industry.

I feel that in this situation - ownership is vital knowledge.

I take it this is a white label or "skin" of Cake Poker. If this is something that falls under CAP's realm I would be rather perturbed since it seems CAP is denying any connection, but others are saying there is a connection.

Some people (like myself) consider White Labels and skins to be affiliate programs on steroids, and there is nothing wrong with them if the ownership is transparent.

If an organization like CAP were to have a poker room, calling it CAPpoker.com and inviting all affiliates to join and promote would be a pretty understandable and cool thing to do. To be running a skin and pretending it to be not associated would be an uncool thing to do. That's deceptive, and an organization like CAP should not be involved in something like that.

Imagine for a moment that it was discovered that I owned Crystal Palace Casino That would kind of put a damper on things in Casinomeisterland

 

[Simmo!]

Imagine for a moment that it was discovered that I owned Crystal Palace Casino That would kind of put a damper on things in Casinomeisterland

LOL. You should buy it just for kicks

 

[The Dude]

FWIW - still there are no PABs against Cardspike. As I mentioned before, any submitted complaints will be handled accordingly. If any players or affiliates are aggrieved by this poker room, please feel free to submit.

 

[Auditor]

FWIW - still there are no PABs against Cardspike. As I mentioned before, any submitted complaints will be handled accordingly. If any players or affiliates are aggrieved by this poker room, please feel free to submit.

I will let the poker affiliates know your door is open

 

[mojo]

This is still ongoing and no sign of letting up soon. IMHO just the ablility of speaking freely is a beautiful thing. If parties involved have done nothing wrong then they would have nothing to worry about. Would they,.

CM, I came thisclose to just pm'ing you to ask if you could find out who the heck owns Card Spike. Could I ask you here to find out who owns Card Spike or should I do it a different way?

Thank you CasinoMeisterLand!

 

[Casino City]

Just a few things I'd like to say here.

The whole cardspike situation is a mess, but I don't think of it as being a GPWA versus CAP war. I think of it as being an affiliate and player issue with the management responsible with cardspike. Casino City / GPWA / APCW have been investigating it for some time, and we would have under normal circumstances have been just about ready to issue our findings now.

When Gambling911 issued an article on the topic, I knew enough information to concur with their conclusion with solid evidence, so I felt it was appropriate to step up to the plate and indicate that nature of what I knew. But preparing all of the material for public presentation and connecting all of the dots in a way that can be publicly presented takes time. So we decided that in order to get the story out in a way we could manage we needed to do a four part story.

Part 1 covered the fact that cardspike was not treating player and affiliates the way the should be treated in terms of timely payments and the fact that many sites had made such statements. At the time the GPWA and APCW were not involved in the fray.

Part 2 covered the fact that two of the owners of Affiliate Media (that operates the CAP and PAP forums among other things) also owns another company called effective media group.

Part 3, which will be out later this week (we hope Tuesday, but maybe Wednesday) will establish, among other things, a clear relationship between effective media group and cardspike, and in so doing establish clear relationships between the management of affiliate media and cardspike.

Part 4, which we hope to put out this Friday, will publish any response from affiliate media to the facts shown in part 3 and delve deeper into cardspike relationships.

I agree that people should wait and see the evidence before forming a final opinion. At this point in time any opinion based solely on what I have said is an opinion based on heresay. Many folks know I would not say things without good reason, but until those good reasons are available for all to see it is all just personal opinion. Think of what I have said as being opening arguments in a court of law. It is the facts subsequently presented that matter. The opening remarks just give folks a general idea of what is coming.

Michael

 

[The Dude]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for stepping in and explaining what has been going on. The Cardspike thing is troubling to say the least.

And so far, I don't like what I am seeing.

 

[The Dude]

Part 1 covered the fact that cardspike was not treating player and affiliates the way the should be treated in terms of timely payments and the fact that many sites had made such statements. At the time the GPWA and APCW were not involved in the fray...

Are there any other operators of other Cake Poker skins that can give an insight what exactly the operators are responsible? Is this a skin like Grand Virtual's skins were? (you provide the domain and website design, they provide the casino - to include casino support, payments etc.)

I'm just wondering how "involved" were the owners of Cardspike. Were they directly responsible for aff and player payments? What reasons (if any) were given explaining the delayed payments.

It's come to my understanding that most everyone is finally receiving payments (thus the lack of PABs on my end). Sorry for my lack of knowingness; Max and I are usually so busy, we don't find out that something has gone pear shaped until PABs start coming in

 

[jetset]

Judging by Casino City's post on page 3 of this thread we can now finally look forward to seeing the evidence backing the accusations levelled at CAP, putting at least some of the questions surrounding this company to bed.

The grand denouement will come probably before the end of this week and it will hopefully illustrate exactly who owns CardSpike, and the division of responsibilities to which Bryan refers to above, i.e. especially who was responsible for payments, which has a definite bearing on the issue following the denials of ownership published by CAP.

I therefore look forward to reading parts 3 and 4 of the Casino City report.

In the meantime perhaps any affiliates who have not yet been paid will put up their hands so we can get a feel for the scope of the remaining non-payments?

 

[pokeraddict]

Are there any other operators of other Cake Poker skins that can give an insight what exactly the operators are responsible? Is this a skin like Grand Virtual's skins were? (you provide the domain and website design, they provide the casino - to include casino support, payments etc.)

While not a skin owner this site appears to not be licensed by Cake Poker but instead a sub licensed white label made by the Sportsbook.com family. All of the processing and support came from Sportsbook.com's processor and support group. Also the way you create an account and cashier are different at CardSpike than they are at Cake Poker or Red Star, a direct licensed Cake skin. The web based cashier and account pages are exactly how Sportsbook.com and PlayersOnly are, another Jazette licensed Cake skin.

It would appear to me the only thing these skins are responsible for are marketing. I would have to assume that means they are in charge of their affiliate programs and payments to affiliates out of their cut. I do not think the player cashout issues are directly their problem, just a symptom of the problems their processor has.

 

[The Dude]

Cardspike still has CAP and PAP certificates. I thought these were pulled and they were booted from both programs. Or did I miss something?

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CardSpike is a proud member of both CAP and PAP. We are dedicated to the affiliate community as a whole.

Why haven't these certificates been yanked off of their site?

 

[GamTrak]

CP/EMG/Cardspike.com Statement

CAP/Effective Media/Card Spike clarification

Affiliate Media Inc., a Nevada Corporation with Offices in Irvine CA., and its shareholders are the owner /operators of the following web properties and products:

1. CasinoAffilitiatePrograms.com , Pokeraffiliateprograms.com, AffiliatePrograms.com These are online communities designed to service the affiliate sector of their respective marketing niches.

2.AffiliateRevenue.com Retail advertising agency with a primary focus on consumer finance and B to B sales.

3.Joint Ventures
A. CAP Magazine with Lyceum media (UK).
B. CAP Euro Events with iGaming Business (UK].
C. AffiliateSpeedPay.com (ASP) exclusive marketing agent and creative direction consulting.

Note: Affiliate Media Inc. has no ownership directly or indirectly of Affiliate Speedpay.com (ASP) or the EU Licensed bank which maintains the affiliate accounts. We have no direct or indirect access to banking/affiliate data or users. We did help author the product to serve as a stable affiliate payment solution after the Neteller fund seizures which affected many of us in the industry.

Clarifications:

1. Affiliate Media Inc. has no direct or indirect ownership whatsoever in CardSpike.com. CardSpike management did pay a full certification fee for exposure on CasinoAffiliatePrograms.com (CAP) and a full All In Partner fee for exposure on PokerAffiliatePrograms.com (PAP. That is the full and total extent of the relationship between the two parties.

Effective Media Group

Effective Media Group (EMG) is a Florida Corporation with offices in Orlando, FL. It was established by a separate set of share holders then AMI with the express intent of offering consulting services to online merchants, in ALL sectors. Our initial focus was to assist investors and operators of online gaming properties. We launched this business to satisfy the continuous requests from new and existing gaming operators for our consulting assistance and guidance with their affiliate marketing and general online marketing initiatives. In 2009, EMG will be branching out into other markets such as finance and travel to further satisfy clients without the necessary expertise to execute efficient online strategies. Both Lou and Warren maintain individual shares in EMG along with other shareholders.

Clarifications:

1.Affiliate Media Inc. has no shares or monetary influence in this new company whatsoever. It is wholly separate company with a different set of business goals and clients.

2.Effective Media Group, its officers, staff and investors have no direct or indirect ownership in CardSpike.com. EMG operated as performance based consultant ONLY for an offshore investor.

EMG was established as a consulting service offering scalable solutions for all online marketing niches. Turnkey fully managed solutions are available or they can provide training and support for new/existing clients. We encourage you to contact the EMG corporate offices for more information on (407) 781-1492.

Additional Notes:

CAP and PAP have dropped certification, recommendation and support of the CardSpike.com product. Its our understanding that Effective Media has not been paid in full for their management services either and are pursing that vigorously with CardSpike.com.

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[The Dude]

Thanks for the information Gamtrak.

2.Effective Media Group, its officers, staff and investors have no direct or indirect ownership in CardSpike.com. EMG operated as performance based consultant ONLY for an offshore investor.

EMG was established as a consulting service offering scalable solutions for all online marketing niches. Turnkey fully managed solutions are available or they can provide training and support for new/existing clients. We encourage you to contact the EMG corporate offices for more information on (407) 781-1492.

But I'm a little confused - didn't Greg Powell operate the affiliate program at Cardspike?

And he works at PAP correct? Did he work at Effective Media as well at the same time, or not at all?

Biography

Over the past half decade, Greg Powell has established himself as a leading figure in the online poker affiliate industry as both an affiliate and a program manager.

In addition to helping launch the CelebPoker.com affiliate program, he also worked to create press and brand recognition for that company. Later, he moved on to PokerHeaven.com and continued to help that company leverage the Poker Channel brand to build an exciting and profitable program for affiliates to promote. From 2005 to 2007, Greg owned and operated a white label bingo room and ran an independent bingo affiliate network.

Greg has also run and continues to operate several very well developed poker portals, and, for a period of time, worked directly with Jeremy Enke to shape the PAP website and community into what it is today. Greg is now Affiliate Director for Cardspike. He remains a host of PAP Radio and still occasionally contributes to the PAP Blog.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If you could have someone clarify this, that would be great. Thanks!

 

[pokeraddict]

Greg Powell left CardSpike about 6 weeks ago. AFAIK he is banned from PAP just as so many others are over this now and no longer has anything to do with them. He was involved with PAP as the biography states and was AM at CardSpike from its launch until about Thanksgiving time in the U.S.

 

[The Dude]

Was he an employee of PAP? or just a volunteer moderator or consultant? Was he working at PAP and at Cardspike at the same time?

 

[Casino City]

Was he an employee of PAP? or just a volunteer moderator or consultant? Was he working at PAP and at Cardspike at the same time?

Greg was an employee of Effective Media Group at the time he was the affiliate manager for Cardspike.

I actually view the statement issued by Affiliate Media as a significant victory in terms of getting the facts out. Affiliate Media knew we were about to prove a relationship between Effective Media Group and Cardspike, and so just a couple hours before the posting of our next video was scheduled they made the statement GamTrak posted here.

As a result of the admissions Affiliate Media made in that statement, there was no need to go though the chain of logic we had prepared to demonstrate that relationship, so we scrapped that video. One of the things we were going to show is that Effective Media Group (of which Warren and Lou of Affiliate Media fame are the two officers) ran the Cardspike affiliate program.

Anyway, you can see our response to their latest statement here:

And we will follow-up with additional information in the context of the most recent statement in future videos.

Michael

 

[The Dude]

Are you looking at a different statement from CAP that I'm looking at? I don't see where they admit that they perform managerial services for Cardspike.

And how do we know that their affiliate manager, Greg, was working for Effective Media Group. Are there still pieces missing?

 

[mojo]

I hope we can all remain calm here. This is a multi-layered issue and many of us are confused on the facts. Besides ownership issues there are many other factors that shouldn't be lost. There are so many carefully chosen words that I am at a loss on what to think!

Cap official statement: Cardspike is not controlled or managed by CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly or Lou "The Professor" Fabiano.
CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly, Lou "The Professor" Fabiano and all other personnel of CAP have absolutely no ownership interest, no profits interest and no beneficial interest whatsoever in Cardspike.
Any statements or malicious rumors to the contrary are untrue and unfair.

 

[The Dude]

I hope we can all remain calm here. This is a multi-layered issue and many of us are confused on the facts. Besides ownership issues there are many other factors that shouldn't be lost. There are so many carefully chosen words that I am at a loss on what to think!

Who's getting excited?

I'd just like to have a couple of answers, that's all.

 

[mojo]

Who's getting excited?

No one, Everyone? We would all just like answers.

 

[The Dude]

Was there another statement made from CAP? If so, where is it?

 

[mojo]

Was there another statement made from CAP? If so, where is it?

No CM, I was referring to the latest video. This is all to much over my head and perhaps I should just stay quiet.

 

[jetset]

"Carefully chosen words" is an appropriate description of the activities of both sides here imo.

And there is an element of hubris and assumption in J. Todd's vid explanation for the latest CAP statement detailing its corporate structure - I can think of other reasons for such a pre-emptive strike.

That said, Todd has a point (reinforced by Mojo in this thread) when he says that the CAP statement did claim that:

"Cardspike is not controlled or managed by CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly or Lou "The Professor" Fabiano.

"CAP, PAP, Affiliate Media, Warren Jolly, Lou "The Professor" Fabiano and all other personnel of CAP have absolutely no ownership interest, no profits interest and no beneficial interest whatsoever in Cardspike."

That sort of sweeping denial would seem to embrace any earning/profits earned by any CAP firm from the activities of CardSpike?

If that is the case, then how are management fees defined? Assuming that CAP subsidiaries have been managing CardSpike's affiliate operations.

CAP has already emphasised that it has no beneficial ownership interest in CardSpike.

What I would really like to know, clearly and without obfuscation if at all possible is:

1) Was CAP or its companies/executives involved in managing or administering the (non) payment of affiliates at CardSpike?

2) If the answer to that is 'yes', was the payment of affiliates a direct responsiblity of the CAP subsidiary in terms of the management contract?

3) Why were affiliates not paid? Was the alleged stifling of comment or complaint on the issue at CAP's forum an extension (ie a conflict of interest) of CAP's commercial involvement with CardSpike?

4) If the answer to (1) is in the affirmative, what was the CAP entity's reward for rendering those services?

5) And would such an arrangement be a conflict of interest bearing in mind CAP's influential role in affiliate affairs, and the consequent often emotional forum exchanges?

6) Is Effective Media an integral part of the CAP group, or a seperate and individual company in which certain CAP principals have an external interest? Because it seems from Warren Jolly's "clarification" on Tuesday that Effective Media was the entity that managed CardSpike's affiliate affairs, presumably including the non-payments. The involvement of CAP top management in a distinctly seperate company that is nevertheless involved in affiliate business could still constitute a conflict imv.

Finally, it's probably a forlorn hope, but I would really like to know who owns CardSpike, and have a look at the relationships that might flow from that!

 

[mojo]

Gosh! I wish I could articulate like that. TY Jetset. That is what I would have like to have said.

 

[RobWin]

2.Effective Media Group, its officers, staff and investors have no direct or indirect ownership in CardSpike.com. EMG operated as performance based consultant ONLY for an offshore investor.

It seems to me by the above statement that Warren made, after you break it down and dissect or analyze it a little more that it is clear that they, being Warren & Lou were clearly working for the owner of CardSpike. The owner being the "offshore investor", which IMO is clearly a conflict of interest here, especially when they were obviously performing "consulting services" for the owner of the casino/offshore investor.

ADDED: If they were doing a good job of consulting for this so called off shore investor then they also had to keep that casino owner/offshore investors best interest in the #1 position in front of the affiliates best interest IMO.

How can it not be ? On the one hand they have their affiliate programs running through Affiliate Media Inc. and on the other hand they have their Casino consulting services that they offer to investors and operators of online gaming properties through EMG Corp.

This is not any different than Bush and Cheney setting public policy initiatives concerning big oil while also sitting on the boards of these companies and being large share holders at the same time while appearing to have different skins !

 

[The Dude]

Well, I'm getting a bit perturbed by this whole thing.

The bottom line is that CAP has denied any connection whatsoever, except that they received funds for the certification, and that there was some sort of management fee that wasn't paid.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that. No connection - final word.

But I still only see assumptions - where is the beef? Sure, Effective Media provided service for some "offshore" entity. Well - what the hell?

Clear as day? It's clear as mud to me.

I still want to know where it explicitly states that Effective Media ran the affiliate program for Cardspike. No one has produced this yet.

How about an on camera interview with Greg Powell? Perhaps he could clear this up

Added: I hope this isn't an excercise of splitting hairs. If an "offshore entity" is defined as Cardspike, or if "managerial services" is meant to be "the affiliate program", a lot of people are going to be rather pissed off for being lied to. If you state you have nothing at all to do with a business, we take your word for it.

 

[Casino City]

I still want to know where it explicitly states that Effective Media ran the affiliate program for Cardspike. No one has produced this yet.

OK, we'll make sure to put that material together and publish it. Some examples of materials that substantiate this include that Greg has confirmed he was an employee of effective media group, paid by effective media group, and working out of an office owned by effective media group at the time he was the affiliate manager for cardspike. And while he was affiliate manager he had working e-mail addresses at both effective media group and cardspike. And the cardspike website was developed by the same web development firm that developed the PAP website.

How about an on camera interview with Greg Powell? Perhaps he could clear this up

He is not in a position to make many statements beyond what I stated above because he is bound by a confidentiality agreement, and so he has a very limited ability to comment on the matter without getting himself into a situation where he could be sued. Greg is adamant about not answering questions that he feels would violate that agreement. I've rarely seen someone so concerned ab out the possible consequences of violating a confidentiality agreement, which I think in and of itself says something about the pressures behind the scenes. Actually, that might make an interview pretty interesting - a series of statements to which he responds he is not free to reply.

Added: I hope this isn't an excercise of splitting hairs. If an "offshore entity" is defined as Cardspike, or if "managerial services" is meant to be "the affiliate program", a lot of people are going to be rather pissed off for being lied to. If you state you have nothing at all to do with a business, we take your word for it.

Your statements here are 100% correct. There is a case of very, very, very carefully written statements being made by Affiliate Media.