CasinoRoom source of income problems for self-employed

[ev4me]

As I am self-employed, CasinoRoom asked me for my latest tax return and bank statements as part of their source of wealth/income checks, which I duly sent them.

I also sent them a government letter confirming my self-employment status and business as a software developer, as well as PayPal statements showing customer payments.

Their latest reply to me has been: "We appreciate your cooperation. Unfortunately, the documents you provided are not sufficient to proof [sic] that you have a steady income. We appreciate your business, but we cannot reopen your account unless you can show a steady income as source of funds."

Of course I do not have a steady income as such (i.e. a consistent/regular/frequent income stream) because my income is made up of ad hoc software sales from various different customers.

Is anyone else experiencing such a problem with CasinoRoom and is there a workaround?

I am not waiting for any money from them but it would be disappointing if I could never play there again.

 

[electronictonic]

The only workaround is to tell them not to bother opening your account ever again, and that you will find somewhere else to play.

If they want to be totalitarianism financial facists then they will lose customers.

 

[mcgameboy]

I received an e-mail from them last week asking for SOW. I haven't got round to responding to them yet.

I am not self-employed, but I am a casual worker (albeit a very busy one who works close to regular full-time hours, as I work for two companies, not one).
Having read your post, I don't have much confidence that sending in my docs is going to enable me to continue to play there.
They will almost certainly see the word "casual" and go "nope - irregular income stream - freeze account until further notice".

Which makes me think it would probably be easier for me to follow tonic's advice....and ask them to close my account, albeit reluctantly.

If there is any crumb of comfort to take from this, it's that you aren't being held to ransom while you have a pending withdrawal.

 

[electronictonic]

I received an e-mail from them last week asking for SOW. I haven't got round to responding to them yet.

I am not self-employed, but I am a casual worker (albeit a very busy one who works close to regular full-time hours, as I work for two companies, not one).
Having read your post, I don't have much confidence that sending in my docs is going to enable me to continue to play there.
They will almost certainly see the word "casual" and go "nope - irregular income stream - freeze account until further notice".

Which makes me think it would probably be easier for me to follow tonic's advice....and ask them to close my account, albeit reluctantly.

If there is any crumb of comfort to take from this, it's that you aren't being held to ransom while you have a pending withdrawal.

Indeed, if they are going to make it so difficult to play there then don't jump through their hoops better to cut them loose, if you think casinos are bad wait until the eventual planned electronic currency roll out eventually comes out, the cashless society has been planned
for a long long time for 2 reasons, facist control of all finances and taxation will be much tighter, contactless cards, and pay with your mobile are all just stepping stones to the cashless society. Casinos are saying no, then it will be computers making that decision.
So all forms of cryptocurrency will absolutely end up being under the commerical banking systems control, as they cannot and will not allow such a system be around that can circumvent their facist system.

 

[goatwack]

This is like EdSkullMurphy was never away

 

[electronictonic]

This is like EdSkullMurphy was never away

It's been in the planning for a long long long time, David Icke was saying this was coming decades ago....and look at the world now, it's getting closer and closer every year, it's inevitable.
What this casino is doing right here is a taste of things to come in the near future.


Malaysia already getting the ball rolling on crypto regulation and of course the rest of the countries will all follow suit.

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[dunover]

It's been in the planning for a long long long time, David Icke was saying this was coming decades ago....and look at the world now, it's getting closer and closer every year, it's inevitable.
What this casino is doing right here is a taste of things to come in the near future.


Malaysia already getting the ball rolling on crypto regulation and of course the rest of the countries will all follow suit.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Didn't David Icke once say the G7 leaders turned into lizards when behind closed doors?

 

[electronictonic]

Didn't David Icke once say the G7 leaders turned into lizards when behind closed doors?

I was waiting for somone to reply with the lizards stuff, so what if he did, you seem like an intelligent person yet you resorted to ad hominem replies...
even if he did say that, it has nothing to do with the financial system and he has been proven to be correct on that front, he also talked about microchips under the skin of humans 30 years ago and everyone laughed and we are almost at that stage as well.

ad hominem
You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.
Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

Example: After Sally presents an eloquent and compelling case for a more equitable taxation system, Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married, was once arrested, and smells a bit weird.

 

[dunover]

I was waiting for somone to reply with the lizards stuff, so what if he did, you seem like an intelligent person yet you resorted to ad hominem replies...
even if he did say that, it has nothing to do with the financial system and he has been proven to be correct on that front, he also talked about microchips under the skin of humans 30 years ago and everyone laughed and we are almost at that stage as well.

ad hominem
You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.
Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

Example: After Sally presents an eloquent and compelling case for a more equitable taxation system, Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married, was once arrested, and smells a bit weird.

Depends what she smells of and what she was arrested for. David Icke is quite entertaining though, that's even without the turquoise shell suit.

 

[goatwack]

There's nothing inherently wrong with technological advancement, talking about chipping, but obviously how it is applied and to whom, if at all.

Governments controlling our lives, tracking our movements and eradicating our freedoms are the sort of topics my partner flips out over, often at great length

Personally, they can chip my balls if it gets me 14,000x on Bonanza

 

[mcgameboy]

There's nothing inherently wrong with technological advancement, talking about chipping, but obviously how it is applied and to whom, if at all.

Governments controlling our lives, tracking our movements and eradicating our freedoms are the sort of topics my partner flips out over, often at great length

Personally, they can chip my balls if it gets me 14,000x on Bonanza

Remind me not to go anywhere near any chippy vans around YOUR uhm..."area" mate

 

[dunover]

There's nothing inherently wrong with technological advancement, talking about chipping, but obviously how it is applied and to whom, if at all.

Governments controlling our lives, tracking our movements and eradicating our freedoms are the sort of topics my partner flips out over, often at great length

Personally, they can chip my balls if it gets me 14,000x on Bonanza

So I quite like the idea of some snoop wasting his or her life away because I used my chip-and-PIN card for a Costa today, followed by a cheap pair of affiliate jeans from Primark before a quick visit to Superdrug for a pack of 3 Pink Ticklers and a 150ml can of Sure Cool Sport deodorant. After a quick 30 minutes wander without buying anything, I had a quick MacDonalds and got the bus home. I tricked them though by turning off my phone after 2 minutes on the bus, and buying a ticket short of where I wanted to disembark and walking the last 2 stops.

That's got the 'they' baffled and I'm pretty sure one or two of the 'they' are on overtime as I speak due to my clandestine and surreptitious behaviour.

 

[Dinahnana]

Oh my how this thread has devolved and quickly at that. I think maybe the SOW departments at some casinos need more training with regards to self employed individuals. I was under the impression that SOW paperwork is done to ensure you aren't money laundering or other nefarious purposes. As long as your banks show money coming from legitimate sources as they do when an individual is self employed then it ought to be fine. I think it might just come down to bad training in some casinos and maybe misinterpreting the EU directive. In all fairness though these stupid EU directives are prime for misinterpretation due to their vagueness. So red tape rules I guess.

 

[mcgameboy]

Oh my how this thread has devolved and quickly at that. I think maybe the SOW departments at some casinos need more training with regards to self employed individuals. I was under the impression that SOW paperwork is done to ensure you aren't money laundering or other nefarious purposes. As long as your banks show money coming from legitimate sources as they do when an individual is self employed then it ought to be fine. I think it might just come down to bad training in some casinos and maybe misinterpreting the EU directive. In all fairness though these stupid EU directives are prime for misinterpretation due to their vagueness. So red tape rules I guess.

And unfortunately, in some cases, casinos are all too willing to (mis)interpret vague legislation, rules and terms with a degree of malicious intent.
Often at the expense of the player. We saw what happened with Deeplay a few months ago.

 

[dunover]

Oh my how this thread has devolved and quickly at that. I think maybe the SOW departments at some casinos need more training with regards to self employed individuals. I was under the impression that SOW paperwork is done to ensure you aren't money laundering or other nefarious purposes. As long as your banks show money coming from legitimate sources as they do when an individual is self employed then it ought to be fine. I think it might just come down to bad training in some casinos and maybe misinterpreting the EU directive. In all fairness though these stupid EU directives are prime for misinterpretation due to their vagueness. So red tape rules I guess.

Have a referendum in Ireland and leave then....it's great fun, really!

 

[Dinahnana]

And unfortunately, in some cases, casinos are all too willing to (mis)interpret vague legislation, rules and terms with a degree of malicious intent.
Often at the expense of the player. We saw what happened with Deeplay a few months ago.

You will get no argument from me there. I can see malicious intent when a withdrawal is pending. Not sure what the issue was with Deeplay as I missed so if you could link that thread I would greatly appreciate it

 

[mcgameboy]

You will get no argument from me there. I can see malicious intent when a withdrawal is pending. Not sure what the issue was with Deeplay as I missed so if you could link that thread I would greatly appreciate it

Here you go....

Rizk Source of Wealth Bullshit!

 

[dunover]

Here you go....

Rizk Source of Wealth Bullshit!

Yes, he was unlucky with that tortuous nonsense. Now it seems the self-employed are going to have more aggro than even the rest.

 

[aceking123]

simple account closure & two fingers goodbye )) another malta company

 

[Dinahnana]

Have a referendum in Ireland and leave then....it's great fun, really!

Would feckling love to but the population here seems to be brainwashed into thinking the EU is a good thing. I used to as well but in the last couple of years I am thinking differently. It's even hard to get information on parties that are advocating for Ireland to leave the EU although I have come across 2 but not on regular legacy media. If you have ideas of Irexit here you are considered a far right 'isit of every kind there is. We will just have to wait and see what happens in the future. I personally don't think the EU will last another 20 years as people are starting to get pissed off in other countries.

 

[dunover]

Would feckling love to but the population here seems to be brainwashed into thinking the EU is a good thing. I used to as well but in the last couple of years I am thinking differently. It's even hard to get information on parties that are advocating for Ireland to leave the EU although I have come across 2 but not on regular legacy media. If you have ideas of Irexit here you are considered a far right 'isit of every kind there is. We will just have to wait and see what happens in the future. I personally don't think the EU will last another 20 years as people are starting to get pissed off in other countries.

I recall that like the Danes Ireland was made to vote again a few years back 'until they voted the right way' lol...

 

[Dinahnana]

Here you go....

Rizk Source of Wealth Bullshit!

Wow, Wow and more Wow. It's clear to me that the directive/law was written by old farts who have no idea what it means to be self employed in this day and age. Many people make their money online, there is a huge boom in digital nomads. So many self employed people especially those who have online businesses would find themselves between a lock and a hard place. If your self employed a P60 or similar document should be sufficient. All I can say is that some casinos are nosy gits!

 

[dunover]

Wow, Wow and more Wow. It's clear to me that the directive/law was written by old farts who have no idea what it means to be self employed in this day and age. Many people make their money online, there is a huge boom in digital nomads. So many self employed people especially those who have online businesses would find themselves between a lock and a hard place. If your self employed a P60 or similar document should be sufficient. All I can say is that some casinos are nosy gits!

Digital nomads. Love it.

 

[Dinahnana]

I recall that like the Danes Ireland was made to vote again a few years back 'until they voted the right way' lol...

I wasn't living in Ireland at that time but I would have voted no for the second time. The EU is a joke. I also think they are holding the UK hostage with Brexit and Theresa May is an EU puppet. The best thing for the Uk is to do a hard Brexit and go from there. It will be hard at the start but will send a powerful message to the rest of Europe.

 

[Dinahnana]

Digital nomads. Love it.

It's a real thing. There are many people out their working free lance in the online world (Graphic Design, Website and other things) while they travel the world. My point which I admit was poorly made is being self employed in today's world doesn't always mean being a plumber or shop owner but encompasses a whole host of other jobs including the online world.

 

[dunover]

It's a real thing. There are many people out their working free lance in the online world (Graphic Design, Website and other things) while they travel the world. My point which I admit was poorly made is being self employed in today's world doesn't always mean being a plumber or shop owner but encompasses a whole host of other jobs including the online world.

Yes, effectively I'm a freelancer, self-employed with many different income sources and travel the world, well Europe lol.

 

[ev4me]

Thanks all for the feedback. Looks like there's no real way around this. It's their casino. Maybe I can get someone else there to double check with them, someone who knows their job better.

It's funny how this thread somehow evolved to politics, but thinking about it, it is the EU that created this whole mess in the first place. They just want more rules, regs and paperwork out of everyone, and to control us all, despite not even being democratically elected. But that's not even the main reason I'm bitter with them.

*snip*

 

[Dinahnana]

Yes, effectively I'm a freelancer, self-employed with many different income sources and travel the world, well Europe lol.

A digital nomad is somebody who travels full time away from their home country. People like yourself who have non-traditional jobs though are the ones that get hit hardest judging by the thread I just read. That leads me to conclude that the idiots who came up with these laws don't know how the internet works. Bryan did make a very good point in that thread though. SOW's ought to be done by the UKCG in the UK where players can be assured that their submitted data is safe and also understand the new data protection laws. Casinos should not have access to anything other than proof of debit/credit card, ewallets and Id's and proof of address and that is that. God save us from the bureaucrats.

 

[ternur]

I think it might just come down to bad training in some casinos and maybe misinterpreting the EU directive. In all fairness though these stupid EU directives are prime for misinterpretation due to their vagueness. So red tape rules I guess.

Not picking on you @osulle, just using your post as a reference point

While it is true in many cases, that EU directives are somewhat vague, it should be noted that a directive is primarly a legislative instruction in achieving a desired result. Anti-money laundering rules are global and the standars are mostly set by FATF. Being a member in the EU or not has little to do with it.

When it comes to online casinos, there's always the licensing authority angle. It doesn't help, that the AML requirements are often tied together with RG regulations (by the regulators). And then used as a license requirement.

I do agree that some operators confuse AML and RG. Or they don't, but are lacking in informing the player of their reasons for requesting documents. The big problem is the way RG is used as an indication or suspicion of illegal activities (ML). The whole AML system is built on the consept of "guilty unless proven innocent". But the whole RG aspect gambling has nothing to do with illegal activies of the player. It's somewhat an ambidextrous way for the society to allow and frown upon gambling at the same time.

It would be great, if the regulators made a clearer distinction between these issues.

It seems that the OP's case was classified under RG at the operator's end. That would make it an issue mostly relating to licensing requirements, which really has little to with the EU or AML regulations as such.

The "steady income" argument used by Casinoroom is OP's situation is a moot point. When did it come necessary to have "steady income" to play in a casino? The same problem comes with recycling winnings. If the funds are clear and not of illegal origin, then it should be up to the adult individual to choose how they spend them. It should not be up to any operator and neither any regulator. Problem gambling should be dealt with in another manner.

 

[ternur]

You get really decent people from all backgrounds, but I saw this image recently and it saddened me greatly:

Care to elaborate on that statement?

 

[ev4me]

Care to elaborate on that statement?

*snip*

 

[ternur]

I don't get it.

How does this relate to the issue you had with Casinoroom?

You said it makes you sad that "white people" are becoming minorities. I'm trying to understand your reasoning and purpose of this agenda on a casino related thread.

 

[ev4me]

How does this relate to the issue you had with Casinoroom?

Oh I see. The thread was already going off topic with the EU stuff, so it was just in response to that.

My original concern with CasinoRoom still stands of course.

 

[slot_zombie]

Not sure why anyone would want to play at Casinoroom in any case.

Not only is the site laggy, but worse than that, they run Play & Go slots on the reduced RTP setting of under 95%.

 

[pinnit2014]

Last time i looked their wagering was something mad at 100x and restricted to certain, crappy, slots. Not played in probably close to two years.

 

[nikantw]

All I want to say at this point is don't leave, stay in and fight with:
Democracy in Europe Movement 2025

 

[kunjuice92]

Not sure why anyone would want to play at Casinoroom in any case.

Not only is the site laggy, but worse than that, they run Play & Go slots on the reduced RTP setting of under 95%.

How can a casino change the rtp of games like this ? Isnt this illegal ?

 

[nikantw]

How can a casino change the rtp of games like this ? Isnt this illegal ?

Some providers offer different RTP settings, PnG is one of them.

 

[kunjuice92]

Can you tell me which providers ? So I avoid them lol

 

[slot_zombie]

How can a casino change the rtp of games like this ? Isnt this illegal ?

There was a big thread about this already, but there is a growing dungheap of white label and independent UKGC-Licensed casinos offering reduced slots payouts. Only way you can tell (if in the UK) is to check the game help files. As a rule of thumb, if they're hiding the RTP in demo play prior to sign up, it's probably the dreaded reduced RTP.

Sites from Aspire Global (AG Communications), Progress Play, Genesis, Ellmount are among ones to avoid regarding this dodgy practice, but there are many other bad guys out there too.

What's more disappointing is that "affiliates" (cough, cough) are happy to promote them for a buck, but won't mention that you'll lose more faster if you sign up to those places. Maybe it's better for them, if they're on rev share.