Club player hijinks

[Macgyver]

I'm not pitching a bitch since I don't think it's worth wasting Bryan's time, but I'd like some reactions/opinions on what's happened from folks if you've got the time to read this. I held off on posting this until I got the money they say I'm entitled to (which happened today), so here goes:

Club Player and I have had a crapload of problems within the past two months. The first set of problems was finally resolved after going through about 4 different people on their Live Chat, but the second problem is really what I'm looking for input on. Oh, and I've also changed the names of Customer Support so it's not considered a personal attack ...

In my multiple discussions about my first problem, a casino supervisor offered me a free $50 chip. Here are our discussions about the limitations and requirements on that chip:

Supervisor: what i can do for you now
Supervisor: is give you a free chip due to the delay and inconvenience
Supervisor: what about that?
you: that's a step in the right direction
you: but, no offense, I'd really like to know when my money is coming in
you: Can you have ****** (or anybody with an answer) email me?
Supervisor: sure i understand you
you: what are the restrictions on this free chip you're offering?
Supervisor: i am leaving soon, but lets do this, for sure i will see cynthia tomorrow
Supervisor: so i will email you back tomorrow, ok?
you: please
Supervisor: i will dear
Supervisor: i can give you a free chip of $50
Supervisor: .you need to wager it 20 times before request a withdrawal
Supervisor: and you can cash out 2 times the free chip amount
you: any restricted games?
Supervisor: that is to play black jack and video poker only
Supervisor: if you want to play black jack only
Superivsor: the wagering requirements will be 25 times the free chip amount
Supervisor: what games you will like to play? and i can find out the requirements then
you: blackjack is fine
you: I'll take the free chip, but honestly I'd rather have my withdrawal taken care of as soon as possible
you: that's the more important thing to me right now, not free chips
Supervisor: yes i know

I get the $50 and play it 25 times since all I wanted to play was blackjack. I'm lucky that night and get it up to $125 on $5 hands. So, I make a $100 withdrawal. I know (now) that this place takes forever to process withdrawals, so I hunker down and wait.

After about a calendar week, I look at my account and see that they've declined the $100 withdrawal. They've then made a manager's withdrawal of $50 and a manual NETeller withdrawal of $50. Thinking something's up (yet again), it's back to the Live Chat for even more times.

After being told to talk to the casino manager, I go round and round with yet another customer service rep until she passes me to the manager's assistant. This is what I get from him:

you: may I please speak to the manager?
Rep: then you will be able to cash out twice the amount
Rep: she will tell you the same i did, if you want i can tranfer you to ******
you: I would like to speak to the manager, please
Assistant: Hello Mr. ******
you: manager's name?
Assistant: this is *******, the manager assistance
Assistant: ****** cant assist you at the moment because she is pretty busy with two other customers now
Assistant: but i can help you out with your case
you: OK, let's see
you: ****** gave me a $50 chip for all the problems I'd been having with a prior withdrawal
you: she advised me that I could cash out twice the chip amount
Assistant: yes that is totally correct
you: if I played blackjack only, I would have to wager 25 times the $50
Assistand: but
Assistant: that was if you play black jack and video poker
Assistant: that was she said
you: here is what she said
you: ******: i can give you a free chip of $50 ****: .you need to wager it 20 times before request a withdrawal *****: and you can cash out 2 times the free chip amount you: any restricted games? *****: that is to play black jack and video poker only ****: if you want to play black jack only ***: the wagering requirements will be 25 times the free chip amount
Assistant: ****: and you can cash out 2 times the free chip amount
Assistant: You:any restricted games?
Assistant:
Assistant: yes sir
Assistant: you ask her any restricted games
you: she mentions blackjack and video poker after I ask about restricted games
Assistant: and she cleary says that was to play black jack and video poker only
Assistant: correct
you: but says nothing about the amount of cashout changing after saying "if you want to play blackjack only"
you: she even asks me in the next line what games I want to play and I reply "blackjack is fine"
Assistant: i can also see that she as you *****: and you can cash out 2 times the free chip amount
Assistant: Visitor: any restricted games?
Assistant:
you: and still says nothing about the cashout amount changing if all I play is blackjack
Assistant: blackjack is fine
Assistant: Visitor: I'll take the free chip, but honestly I'd rather have my withdrawal taken care of as soon as possible
Assistant: Visitor: that's the more important thing to me right now, not free chips
Assistant:
you: my point is
you: ****** never says anywhere that the cashout amount would change if all I play is blackjack
you: the only thing she mentions is that the wagering requirement rises to 25 times from 20
Assistant: yes Mr. ****
Assistant: but when she mentioned that was to play video poker as well, you didnt say nothing that you wont play that game neither
Assistant: so how she can know?
Assistant: you just ask the restricted games, and she told you what games you can play on
Assistant: so you can cash out 2 times the free chip amount
you: I would think if there were more changes to the terms by playing only blackjack, she would have mentioned that too
Assistant: well, as per the conversation
Assistant: you wasnt pretty interested on the free chip,
Assistant: only on the cash out result
Assistant: and she gave you the free chip as a special gift due to the delay inconvenience
Assistant: i was here that day
Assistant: and i remember that she was almost going home
Assistant: but she left late that night finding out the way to help you with the withdrawal issue
you: I appreciated the free chip
you: I wouldn't have taken it if I didn't
Assistant: i think that both of you guys was thinking in something else, that is why you forgot to ask her about other rules on playing black jack and she also forgot to mentioned that
Assistant: i do apologize for that in name of here
Assistant: and she send you her apologiez as well.
you: well, obviously, we feel differently
you: and it seems that you've made the decision that the $50 is all I can withdraw
Assistant: well, actually that is the rules on the casino, so accounting department process your withdrawal according the rules

Sorry for the length, but I wanted to show a few things. Especially the guilt trip the assistant manager tries to put on me since the supervisor "was almost going home" but "left late that night ..." or how it's my faulty memory's fault for not asking.

Does anyone else read (if you've made it this far) or agree that the cashout is 2x the free chip? The supervisor mentions that there's more wagering to be done if all I play is blackjack, but doesn't say anything about that play changing the amount able to be cashed out.

I've taken the $50 and will be erasing this particular place from my computer. Still, I'd like any thoughts y'all might have (apart from just telling me to avoid RTG software and/or bonuses) ...

 

[Vesuvio]

Thoughts:

1) Why open an English-language casino with support staff and managers who can barely speak English?

2) The supervisor called you "dear"

3) Looks like the usual RTG mess - the supervisor offered you the better bonus first (20x, 2x withdrawal limit) which would have been fine for playing BJ (bizarrely). Then you were given a worse bonus you could still play BJ with, but only BJ. If they were trying to do you a favour & understood the bonus system they'd have given you the first bonus anyway.

4) The different free chips terms are explained here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That said, you were getting a special bonus and had no reason to assume the terms would be anything other that the ones you were told - so a 2x bonus limit on withdrawals. They should pay the $100.

5) Avoid RTG and bonuses

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

2) The supervisor called you "dear"

At least he's in cyberspace... I've been called "Ma'am" directly to my face.

 

[caruso]

Club Player = Palace Of Chance = Blast21.

Shitholes United.

 

[caruso]

I've been called "Ma'am" directly to my face.

THAT is sad.

 

[Pepmintpatty]

FONT=Comic Sans MS]And they wonder why their doors close just a fast as they were opened. There are no business ethics involved here, just a bunch of crap. What kind of businesses are we making rich anyway? People just sittin around, racking in the big bucks, lying & wasting peoples time, it's sicking. The almight dollar brings with it the evils of greed, and where there's greed, there's deception. I've noticed that when you want someone's attention you hit that pocketbook. I sometimes wonder, what kind of attention we could muster up if there would be an all out 24 hour STRIKE!.[/FONT]

 

[Pepmintpatty]

And they wonder why their doors close just a fast as they were opened. There are no business ethics involved here, just a bunch of crap. What kind of businesses are we making rich anyway? People just sittin around, racking in the big bucks, lying & wasting peoples time, it's sicking. The almight dollar brings with it the evils of greed, and where there's greed, there's deception. I've noticed that when you want someone's attention you hit that pocketbook. I sometimes wonder, what kind of attention we could muster up if there would be an all out 24 hour STRIKE

 

[suzecat]

Macgyver (Dear) you have the patience of a saint. And, Club Player owes you another $50!

 

[KasinoKing]

At least he's in cyberspace... I've been called "Ma'am" directly to my face.

Please post a photo of yourself so we can see if there was any justification for that!

You have to feel sightly sorry for these CS reps. They probably have to work for money-grabbing b'stards, in very poor conditions, with little or no training, they seem to know nothing about gambling or understand the T&C's of their establishment, and probably get paid a pathetic sum for working long hours...

 

[thelawnet]

Club Player = Palace Of Chance = Blast21.

Shitholes United.

Um, that's not strictly accurate.

Blast 21 is a Cyber Betting casino. These are closely related to Vegas Frontier, which is a Doleplex (Crystal Palace, American Grand et al) casino.

Palace of Chance and Club Player are both Virtual casinos, as is Cirrus, Cool Cat, etc.

These casinos are all pretty shady. I think they are all OKed by Bryan, but if you do play there you need to get an email confirming the exact t&cs before you play. There are so many conflicting rules 'bonuses less than 30% are fully cashable', 'bonuses of 101% to 199% are non-cashable and have blah blah blah'

I think pretty much all of these RTG casinos have as part of their business model enticing players with bonuses and then slow or no-paying players.

The only truly reputable ones are inetbet, bodog, King Solomon's, Geisha Lounge, Grand Aces, plus maybe jv8 and wagerstreet, Crown Vegas and Sunset Palace.

Every single other RTG casino is at least somewhat shady, so buyer beware....

 

[The Dude]

...Palace of Chance and Club Player are both Virtual casinos, as is Cirrus, Cool Cat, etc.

These casinos are all pretty shady. I think they are all OKed by Bryan...

OKed? Are you sure about that?
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forum...no-cirrus-casino-cool-cat-casino.8745/?t=8745
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/podcasts/
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/about-us/vortran007/
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[thelawnet]

OKed? Are you sure about that?
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forum...no-cirrus-casino-cool-cat-casino.8745/?t=8745
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/podcasts/
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/about-us/vortran007/
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/rogue-casinos/

perhaps OKed was too strong.

But not actually rogued 'do not play', as say Windows or Rochester are.

A monthly payment limit is not going to bother many people, depending on what games they play.

More casinos than just Virtual have this.

 

[caruso]

Um, that's not strictly accurate.

Blast 21 is a Cyber Betting casino. These are closely related to Vegas Frontier, which is a Doleplex (Crystal Palace, American Grand et al) casino.

Palace of Chance and Club Player are both Virtual casinos, as is Cirrus, Cool Cat, etc.

I've no idea where you get this from. Cirrus and CoolCat have been suggested to be Virtual-linked, but I don't think it goes beyond sharing office space and support staff. This was discussed long ago here. Palace of Chance? I have never heard any reference to any Virtual connection. Source?

last I heard, Blast21 was taken over by the POC group. Again, what is your source for this apparent change?

 

[mucullus]

The only truly reputable ones are inetbet, bodog, King Solomon's, Geisha Lounge, Grand Aces, plus maybe jv8 and wagerstreet, Crown Vegas and Sunset Palace.

..

I would also avoid Crown Vegas and Sunset Palace under their new management. The 'manager' 'Rick' (also a new member of this board) is looking for player databases to spam people on the startcasino forum. When being criticised for such business ethics by another poster he calls him 'loser' and 'idiot'... Speaks volumes, imho.

 

[thelawnet]

I've no idea where you get this from. Cirrus and CoolCat have been suggested to be Virtual-linked, but I don't think it goes beyond sharing office space and support staff. This was discussed long ago here. Palace of Chance? I have never heard any reference to any Virtual connection. Source?

last I heard, Blast21 was taken over by the POC group. Again, what is your source for this apparent change?

Blast 21 says at the bottom of the page that is owned by http://www.playersecurity.com/' at the bottom.

This links to Vegas Frontier, a well known Doleplex casino.

Palace of Chance clearly states at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

www.palaceofchance.com is a part of the Cool Cat Casino family

So Cirrus = Cool Cat = Palace of Chance. Whether or not Cirrus is the same as Virtual? Who knows.

Blast 21 is affiliated with a Doleplex casino, at player security which is also linked to Play United, who deceptively have as their address Gibraltar, although it's a con as the address is that of a 'buy your own company' outlet (www.sovereigngroup.com).

These casinos all have similar hallmarks: the 3 Cyber Betting and 3 Cyber Gaming casinos sharing the same address in Dorking (Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) , and sharing a link with Doleplex.

 

[Vesuvio]

I would also avoid Crown Vegas and Sunset Palace under their new management. The 'manager' 'Rick' (also a new member of this board) is looking for player databases to spam people on the startcasino forum.

Well spotted:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Definitely casinos to strike off the "more or less legit" RTG list.

 

[thelawnet]

Blast 21 says at the bottom of the page that is owned by http://www.playersecurity.com/' at the bottom.

This links to Vegas Frontier, a well known Doleplex casino.

Palace of Chance clearly states at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So Cirrus = Cool Cat = Palace of Chance. Whether or not Cirrus is the same as Virtual? Who knows.

Blast 21 is affiliated with a Doleplex casino, at player security which is also linked to Play United, who deceptively have as their address Gibraltar, although it's a con as the address is that of a 'buy your own company' outlet (www.sovereigngroup.com).

These casinos all have similar hallmarks: the 3 Cyber Betting and 3 Cyber Gaming casinos sharing the same address in Dorking (Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) , and sharing a link with Doleplex.

Ok, it looks more complicated....

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lists the full lot

one of those is indeed Palace of Chance

In full:
Vegas Magic (cyberbetting/gaming group)
Vegas Frontier (Doleplex - but maybe this has changed???)
Vegas Lucky (cyberbetting/cybergaming)
Slot Fever (cyberbetting/cybergaming)
Palace of Chance (cool cat/cirrus)
Club Player (exactly the same as Palace of Chance -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

is the same, word for word, as

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)
BetMax (Cyberbetting/gaming)
Blast 21 (cyberbetting/gaming)
BetNetClub (cyberbetting/gaming)
Giant Vegas (an ex-casino, rogue, affiliated with Kiss, spam sellers, etc.)
Play United (BIMS, shell company)
Kiss (rogue,worst casino of the year 2004, closed)

All in all a pretty scummy bunch. So nice of them to list all the places it's bad to play together....

 

[The Dude]

I would also avoid Crown Vegas and Sunset Palace under their new management. The 'manager' 'Rick' (also a new member of this board) is looking for player databases to spam people on the startcasino forum. When being criticised for such business ethics by another poster he calls him 'loser' and 'idiot'... Speaks volumes, imho.

Man, Rick! that was a classic exchange! What were you thinking? Almost as bad as Largo Casino's exchange at Oysterboard a couple of years back with the classic "F U and your forum!" Sheesh!
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[thelawnet]

Well spotted:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Definitely casinos to strike off the "more or less legit" RTG list.

Wow, these guys must go straight onto the rogue list for that?

The number of reputable RTGs can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Their software is really really good, but they enter into contracts with scum.

Out of 43 RTG casinos, only 6 or 7 that aren't evil.

 

[jetset]

From the looks of this there won't be too many "opt in or opt out" enquiries either. Man, but this sort of thing does nothing for the industry.

You can see that there is no shortage of people prepared to sell (possibly illegal) databases - including one very well known creature who rejoices in the name "Nuttawutt Sophagunalert" He's surfaced from the depths of the pond before.

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

Please post a photo of yourself so we can see if there was any justification for that!

Ask and ye shall receive... Be hard to mistake this ugly mug for a female, but...

 

[caruso]

That "Start Casino" thing with the Crown Vegas manager's comments deserves a thread of its own.

PlayerSecurity seems to be a financial transaction service, although comments addressed to both players and casinos make it all very confusing. This doesn't link B21 to those client casinos at a management level - at least, not on the face of it. Certainly, of those other casinos you list further down, no way Giant Vegas and Kiss are W****n C***d casinos.

Cool Cat and Cirrus are linked, I believe, by affiliate programme. That came up when I had my dispute with Cirrus 18 months ago. Again, whether the link is closer than that I don't know, but I doubt it's the same management. Evidently, POC = CoolCat, but again, these Cirrus / Virtual speculations remain...speculative.

The B21 issue should be easily solved:

"CyberBetting Ltd. 85 South Street, Dorking, Surrey, RH4 2LA, UK."

Someone just pop round and knock on the door...

 

[thelawnet]

Ok, it looks more complicated....

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

lists the full lot

one of those is indeed Palace of Chance

In full:
Vegas Magic (cyberbetting/gaming group)
Vegas Frontier (Doleplex - but maybe this has changed???)
Vegas Lucky (cyberbetting/cybergaming)
Slot Fever (cyberbetting/cybergaming)
Palace of Chance (cool cat/cirrus)
Club Player (exactly the same as Palace of Chance -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

is the same, word for word, as

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)
BetMax (Cyberbetting/gaming)
Blast 21 (cyberbetting/gaming)
BetNetClub (cyberbetting/gaming)
Giant Vegas (an ex-casino, rogue, affiliated with Kiss, spam sellers, etc.)
Play United (BIMS, shell company)
Kiss (rogue,worst casino of the year 2004, closed)

All in all a pretty scummy bunch. So nice of them to list all the places it's bad to play together....

hmm, Vegas Frontier is definitely still Doleplex (Crystal Palace group).

This casino (www.vegasfrontier.com) is owned and operated by Doleplex
Trading Ltd., 4th Floor, 5 Costis Palamas Street, Nicosia 1305,
Cyprus.

So Doleplex and Cool Cat/Cirrus have a link via this Player Security bunch.

I didn't think they were believed to be connected, but there is clearly a link.

Maybe it will turn out that there is one group of cooks running all these different casinos.....

American Grand, America's Online, Betmax, Betnetclub, Blast 21,
Cirrus, Club Player, Cool Cat, Crystal Palace, Golden Nile, High Rollers Lounge, Lucky Coin, Lucky Pyramid, Palace of Chance, Play United, Prism, Royal Circus, Slot Fever, Vegas Frontier, Vegas Lucky, Vegas Magic and Virtaul Casino can ll be linked in one way or another to each of these other casinos.

 

[The Dude]

The B21 issue should be easily solved:

"CyberBetting Ltd. 85 South Street, Dorking, Surrey, RH4 2LA, UK."

Someone just pop round and knock on the door...

And that's going to be one big-ass building - don't get lost

Do a Google search on the address and they share the same address with about 1600 other companies. My guess it's a mailbox.

 

[thelawnet]

And that's going to be one big-ass building - don't get lost

Do a Google search on the address and they share the same address with about 1600 other companies. My guess it's a mailbox.

same thing as the bullshit BIMS in Gibraltar, when they are clearly another crappy Costa Rican outfit.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

UK Data Ltd
85 South Street
Dorking
Products and Services
Company Formations

 

[jetset]

There was speculation at one time that Cyberbetting might be a temporary holding station for failed or abandoned RTG domains awaiting a new owner...but that was never followed through and shown to be so.

 

[tim5ny]

Ask and ye shall receive... Be hard to mistake this ugly mug for a female, but...

Bruce, do you have any pics of yourself when you were alive?

 

[Macgyver]

Thoughts:

4) The different free chips terms are explained here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That said, you were getting a special bonus and had no reason to assume the terms would be anything other that the ones you were told - so a 2x bonus limit on withdrawals. They should pay the $100.

Someone on another forum advised me to contact montana, but I looked at the link Vesuvio gave and it's pretty clear that if all I play is blackjack, I can only cashout the free chip amount.

I just don't (and didn't) understand why the supervisor wouldn't mention that when she mentioned everything else about the limitations ...

Also, does this mean that if I had played ONE HAND of video poker, I could have cashed out twice the free chip amount?

Kinda ridiculous, but a learning experience obviously ...

 

[Vesuvio]

Also, does this mean that if I had played ONE HAND of video poker, I could have cashed out twice the free chip amount?

My reading of it was that if she'd given you the bonus she mentioned first you'd have been able to play only BJ and cash out twice the bonus (you'd have the option of playing VP as well, but wouldn't need to). RTG terms... don't you just luv'em?

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

Bruce, do you have any pics of yourself when you were alive?

That was when I was alive.

 

[tim5ny]

That was when I was alive.

LOL!! j/k with ya Brucie!

 

[KasinoKing]

At least he's in cyberspace... I've been called "Ma'am" directly to my face.

How strange. Not a problem I've ever had myself...

 

[tim5ny]

KK.. I always thought you were that fat guy with the moustache!

 

[caruso]

Damn, are you a lassie?

I apologise for whatever, and promise to be nice from now on...also for whatever.

 

[mary]

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Selling customer database
Posted by: Club Player Casino (---.org)
Date: July 22, 2005 08:46PM


Please contact me discreetly, webmaster@clubplayercasino, we have a database with approximately 14000 players with full data for sale.

We are asking for $30000 to finance a new ad campaign, lowballers do not waste our time.

I think RTG needs to do something about this. Obviously, "player privacy" is right up there with "being insured" on the RTG scum-o-meter.