Clubworld Group Overcharge on Credit Card Deposits

[BMWSTACK]

Is anyone else getting overcharged on Credit Card transactions? Every single transaction I do with any Clubworld casino is overcharged by some change to a number of dollars. It seems to be the bigger the transaction the bigger the overcharge. The descriptor for transaction is normally Eldorado.

I did try to address this with Clubworld/ Tom about 3- 4 weeks ago. Karolina is the person who was responding at that time. She requested a copy of the transactions, which I provided. She said she would look into right away which she did, when I spoke to her she said that its probably my bank. I explained to her that I get a separate charge for the international transaction and my bank wouldnt change the amount that comes in (i am in this type of business and know the process well) . I explained to her that it has to be the processor, and offered to explain to Tom the situation so that it does not create a problem with other players. Well she credited me $25 for the overcharges right away. I did double check with the bank and of course they only process what the merchant requests.

Well it is still happening on every single charge. Here is an example: If you charge $100 it shows on the cashier confirmed credit card transaction reciept as $99.30 (which is standard with RTG) but then it goes throught the bank for $103.71, then I get a separate international transaction charge from my bank (no big deal its the bank).

The overcharge certainly isnt large money but its principal. Do i really have to keep sending copies of bank statements to get the difference? On top of it all I normally take bonuses so when I get refunded its just straight money and not a whole heck of a lot ,would have liked to have bonus amount also.I do like Clubworld, and I am a fan of Tom. When I spoke to Karolina I figured there would be a lot more concern about overcharges, she was nice enough but I figure it would be an urgent issue to look into it, but they all seemed satisified that the processor wasnt overcharging. I have been playing Clubworld for years and wont stop depositing because of this, but overcharges with a processor should be addressed. Normally the lengthier payments are becausee of processors, whats going to happen with a process that charges whatever they want?

 

[silcnlayc]

This is a charge

I asked my bank why it was different. It is a conversion charge by the bank it seems. I used to get charged a few dollars after depositng such as deposit $45, then a $1.10 fee was placed against my account also. Banks charge this either way it seems.

 

[Mousey]

I asked my bank why it was different. It is a conversion charge by the bank it seems. I used to get charged a few dollars after depositng such as deposit $45, then a $1.10 fee was placed against my account also. Banks charge this either way it seems.

OK... so USA players get these weird charges, as well as UK players... what currency are they converting to/from?

 

[BMWSTACK]

I asked my bank why it was different. It is a conversion charge by the bank it seems. I used to get charged a few dollars after depositng such as deposit $45, then a $1.10 fee was placed against my account also. Banks charge this either way it seems.

Hmmmm , my bank said they didnt change the charges. This is the first time it has ever happened over the years. Nobody else has this problem. Jackpot Capital is exactly what it show on the reciept which is normally a few cents short.

 

[chuchu59]

Hmmmm , my bank said they didnt change the charges. This is the first time it has ever happened over the years. Nobody else has this problem. Jackpot Capital is exactly what it show on the reciept which is normally a few cents short.

The JC/CW comparison indicates the problem to be on CW's end. I reckon the CW processor must be charging the casino some ridiculously low rates. CW sticks with them despite many problems stemming from their side. CW risks a slide in their reputation over so many problems related to processing so if the sole reason for staying with them is low costs then they should have a hard look at it again. Right now, complaints in this area are mounting.

 

[BMWSTACK]

The JC/CW comparison indicates the problem to be on CW's end. I reckon the CW processor must be charging the casino some ridiculously low rates. CW sticks with them despite many problems stemming from their side. CW risks a slide in their reputation over so many problems related to processing so if the sole reason for staying with them is low costs then they should have a hard look at it again. Right now, complaints in this area are mounting.

Actually with all the problems with processors and finding them, i would think the rate is high. Casinos cant be picky these days because there are so few processors. Now obviously I am talking about processors that do US, exclude US and the rate is probably lower, competitive and very many of them.

 

[Pocketdiggers77]

This happened at Sloto when they switched to a Chinese processor. They were skimming sometimes $1.00 and more on every transaction. Also, my bank started calling me with fraud alerts because of the transactions coming from China. I think Sloto eventually put up a disclaimer stating the transaction could go through for more than the amount you requested which is pure bullshit in my book. It is ok to charge less but if are charging more that is fraud.

 

[anniemac]

It's not just CW group. It happens with InetBet, Sloto, DesertNights for me when I deposit via CC.

When I deposit thru OkPay to InetBet, I never receive the amount of money that I deposit. It's always less by $1 plus. When I deposit thru OKPay to CW, I get the exact amount.

I have laid it down to the cost of gambling online.

 

[bb28]

Reading these thread has me worried for you guys that are using your bank accounts to fund gambling.

With the current climate, it's just not wise or prudent.

 

[weesie]

Hi all!

I have had the same thing happen.

I just scan the page of my bank statement (I bank on line) and send it to the cashier.

Last month it was about 3.00 total. Lucky Red gave me a credit of 5.00 to cover it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

None of this should be happening to UK players. In fact, as a UK based company CWC could end up in some serious trouble over this, irrespective of where the actual gambling is licensed. If the bank is making the charges, they are bound by the rules set by the FSA, and must give players clear guidance of how the charges are calculated and levied. It seems that in this case the bank is levying it's charge clearly and separately, so the other charge must be coming in from the CWC processor. Unless CWC make a clear statement to players that such charges will be levied on card transactions, they are breaking the rules for operating within the UK. It would then be a matter for Trading Standards or the OFT to investigate. If the charge hits the bank in US Dollars, and CWC operates in US Dollars, then it CANNOT be anything to do with currency conversion, as this is being handled by the player's UK bank (and charged for accordingly).

The receipt also seems to be false, misrepresenting a $100 deposit as $99.30, and then bumping the total to over $100 with some ill defined fees.

What is going on here is pretty obvious. CWC are processing your card deposits via the same dodgy processors they use to circumvent UIGEA for US players. These processors are largely unlicensed and unregulated, and many are really "quick buck" operations set up by the criminal underworld who may as well do a bit of skimming on top of breaking the US UIGEA laws.

If a proper processor were being used, the receipt would be $100, and your bank would see $100 coming in as the charge, and the bank fees would be clearly shown as a separate item.

Non US players are far less likely to accept overcharges as the price of playing online, and CAN make official complaints without worrying about their bank freezing or closing their accounts for initiating "illegal transactions".

 

[labeled]

This skimming by the processors really pisses me off, and Sloto/Desert Nights treats it as par for the course/part of doing business overseas, which is awesome for them, as they are not the ones who are getting stolen from. If I'm unlucky enough to get that particular processor, I get an .80 overcharge on a $25 deposit, like clockwork. The other two processors they use never overcharge.

If you bring it to the attention of support, they just tell you it's an international transaction fee. Really? Then why don't they ALL do it? Answer: because some outfits are dodgier than others, plain and simple.

Also, if you're getting fraud alert calls from your bank, try to make sure to never have two deposits back to back - that will trigger a fraud alert immediately IME. If I feel the need to chase a loss I'll break it up by buying something on Amazon.

 

[Pocketdiggers77]

Reading these thread has me worried for you guys that are using your bank accounts to fund gambling.

With the current climate, it's just not wise or prudent.

If you are referring to what I posted, it was Netspend that called me and I also have a backup card at a real bank just for gambling that called as well. You are correct though, It would not be prudent in ANY climate to give these clown processors access to a main bank account.

 

[amatrine]

I just deposited at desert nights for the first time yeterday, will have to go check that. Club world stopped taking my credit card, this month. Last month though, the charges were normal.

 

[amatrine]

Just checked my bank, for me at least with desert nights, its was 25 dollars taken out, the same I deposited.

 

[labeled]

Just checked my bank, for me at least with desert nights, its was 25 dollars taken out, the same I deposited.

I play the Rivals only, and it's only one specific processor that does it, out of the 3 they seem to use. Deposited yesterday at Sloto Rival (slots capital) and it happened again.

ETA: Deposited 25, 25.78 taken, deposited 25.50, 26.29 taken. Both from a processor with Tommy in the name. Thieves.

 

[Mousey]

Now dadgummit.... whatever 'extra' is being charged, WE the depositor should know how much it is before we approve the transaction. Because (however we deposit) we are authorizing deductions from our accounts. I have said this in another thread, one of these processors could go rogue, or even punch in the wrong numbers, and empty our accounts and we have little to stand on in case of a dispute because we 'authorize' these transactions. And it still goes against all logic that RTGs are using the same piddly weird processors for transactions from fully legal countries as they use for USA. You guys shouldn't have to put up with it.

 

[BMWSTACK]

The receipt also seems to be false, misrepresenting a $100 deposit as $99.30, and then bumping the total to over $100 with some ill defined fees.

What is going on here is pretty obvious. CWC are processing your card deposits via the same dodgy processors they use to circumvent UIGEA for US players. These processors are largely unlicensed and unregulated, and many are really "quick buck" operations set up by the criminal underworld who may as well do a bit of skimming on top of breaking the US UIGEA laws.

If a proper processor were being used, the receipt would be $100, and your bank would see $100 coming in as the charge, and the bank fees would be clearly shown as a separate item.

This is pretty much what I chalk it up to. They are already doing something they shouldnt so whay not a little extra. Unfortunately there are so few processors available that the casinos do put up with some of these antics. I am sure that a lot of RTGS use the same processor, and thats why we see the same thing happen at other casinos. I guess most casinos that this happens at are not too concerned because they are just happy to have a processor. These processors that do these things are probably the same ones that take off with some of the casinos money and leave the casinos giving excuses for delayed processing. Hopefully the casinos have some way to protect their money that the processors are handling for them.

 

[Deanna]

You know I've never paid too much attention but sometimes I cut it close which this time made me realize my last 3 deposits at CWC were over the amount. One is a charge for $35 and the processor took $36.16. Now I'm sorry but that is complete rape! Thank God I check my account every day because as I said sometimes I cut it close and if I've no clue the processor is going to be overcharging it could have caused me a problem. The 2% from my bank comes out on top of that.

 

[anniemac]

Well, gotta eat crow now.

I decided I would just check on what has been taken out above what I deposited since Jan. 1 and I was not happy. From Jan. 1 to Jan. 11, I have had almost $20 overcharged to my debit card. My actual deposits are over anywhere from $.50 to over $2 per deposit and then I have seperate charges of from $.88 to $1.75 for each deposit made.

Since I have only deposited to CW group in this time period, I know it is their processors.

I contacted Karolina regarding this Friday but haven't heard anything as of yet.

 

[Diane]

Well, gotta eat crow now.

I decided I would just check on what has been taken out above what I deposited since Jan. 1 and I was not happy. From Jan. 1 to Jan. 11, I have had almost $20 overcharged to my debit card. My actual deposits are over anywhere from $.50 to over $2 per deposit and then I have seperate charges of from $.88 to $1.75 for each deposit made.

Since I have only deposited to CW group in this time period, I know it is their processors.

I contacted Karolina regarding this Friday but haven't heard anything as of yet.

I have had similar experiences. Also had a recent problem with Aladdins Gold's processor "Eldorado" - tried to deposit by cc, got error message saying it was denied. However, the charge went against my cc account. When I contacted support at AG, they told me, no nothing was charged. When I pursued it with Cashier dept. they told me there was a problem on their end, that the charge DID go through, but it wasn't showing in my account. Eventually I got the credit at AG. But it was frustrating and now I check every single transaction every time. Amount charged by Eldorado on behalf of CWG is always 1-6 dollars more depending upon the size of the deposit as you have indicated. Then ON TOP of that, the cc or my bank charges the foreign transaction fee.

FWIW,
Diane

 

[BMWSTACK]

I spoke to Karolina about a week ago, and she said they were going to ask the processor.

 

[Nifty29]

This is pretty much what I chalk it up to. They are already doing something they shouldnt so whay not a little extra. Unfortunately there are so few processors available that the casinos do put up with some of these antics. I am sure that a lot of RTGS use the same processor, and thats why we see the same thing happen at other casinos. I guess most casinos that this happens at are not too concerned because they are just happy to have a processor. These processors that do these things are probably the same ones that take off with some of the casinos money and leave the casinos giving excuses for delayed processing. Hopefully the casinos have some way to protect their money that the processors are handling for them.

Yes, you're probably right. I doubt CWC get any of the extra though.

I guess it is probably too much of a hassle to have different processors for different countries.

I do use my MC occasionally at CWC, and have never been overcharged FWIW.

Hi Diane

 

[rena35]

i have had this happen to me at cwc and ag,charges on my netspend that overdrew the account

 

[Deanna]

i have had this happen to me at cwc and ag,charges on my netspend that overdrew the account

That's what bothers me. As I said, sometimes I cut it down to a few bucks and if you're going to charge me $1.16 on a $35 charge you could wreak some havoc. I sent an email to support which they said they are forwarding on to the cashier but I'm sure this isn't new to them.

The funny thing is this morning I did a deposit for $25 and the original processor denied so I hit the "deposit again" where it goes to a different processor and THAT processor only charged 24.99. Which is how it usually is. The one I'm having all the issues with is ELDORADO BOOTLEGGING. I hate to think what they've been yanking off my over $100-$200 deposits that I didn't notice because at the time I had so much money in my account I didn't pay attention. Grrrrr.

 

[Deanna]

Extra 3% plus

So, as I've been now monitoring my CC charges I realize their new processor is adding 3% to every charge. Is this even legal? THEN as I'm seeing what's actualy coming out they add another .10 on that. Example:
Deposit $21
Pending deposit $21.63
Actual amount deducted $21.74

WTH.

Just deposited $51, pending charge is $52.57 and who knows what more once it's deducted. Then add the 3% on top for international transactions.

Yeah, I may have to be done with all this. It's serious highway robbery. Very frustrated right now. It makes it impossible to manage my bank account since I do a lot of smaller transactions. I wish they would dump this processor and find a new one.

 

[JAMES50]

Had this start happening last year with cwc processor.Didn't notice (as the card was soley used for this) till the bank called and ask if I was buying airline tix to spain and germany.Totalling 3200.00. Lol Told them Hell no..Closed the acct and haven't been back to play on line. It started small then wham. I can't blame cwc . I am in US and am sure the casino's are at the mercy of these vipors. Good Luck all

 

[shoveply]

I just thought it was the cost of playing. I have been charged a fee on my deposits (the fees vary depending on how much my deposit is), plus a processing fee. I pay by a prepaid credit visa card.

 

[Deanna]

I just thought it was the cost of playing. I have been charged a fee on my deposits (the fees vary depending on how much my deposit is), plus a processing fee. I pay by a prepaid credit visa card.

Well, it didn't used to be the cost of playing. I've always paid the 3% international fee from the bank, THAT I see as a "cost of playing". The processor taking MORE than I actually authorize to charge I did NOT view as the cost of playing.

I know, I know. Shuddup. If you're gonna play, Pay. and don't gripe. I hate being a US player

 

[chuchu59]

Well, it didn't used to be the cost of playing. I've always paid the 3% international fee from the bank, THAT I see as a "cost of playing". The processor taking MORE than I actually authorize to charge I did NOT view as the cost of playing.

I know, I know. Shuddup. If you're gonna play, Pay. and don't gripe. I hate being a US player

What's wrong with griping for heaven's sake. You guys and gals are already getting a raw deal thanks to the US Government so just blow off steam whenever you want. That will help you get emotionally balanced.

 

[Mousey]

My point is... if the processors are taking more from our card (over and above our deposit amount) we should be TOLD. There should be a notice in the cashier: NOTE! Our processors charge 3% or 4% or whatever the hell they want over and above the amount you are authorizing as a deposit.

 

[bpb]

If you look closely at the message you receive after a deposit, it actually says that you will be charged some slightly different amount than your deposit, but that "IT WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THAN THE ACTUAL DEPOSIT".

This clearly isn't happening, as we're being charged significantly more than the deposit. However, I do have faith that if you contact club world, they will refund you the overage.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Well, it didn't used to be the cost of playing. I've always paid the 3% international fee from the bank, THAT I see as a "cost of playing". The processor taking MORE than I actually authorize to charge I did NOT view as the cost of playing.

I know, I know. Shuddup. If you're gonna play, Pay. and don't gripe. I hate being a US player

Yes indeed not only is it an overcharge on the amount authorized, but then you also get charged the international fee. So yes indeed it is getting more expensive.

I did post before that Karolina was going to look into this. I did hear anything. I have spoke via message and phone begging her to look into this. I am quite familiar with processors and the actual process. Its really not the money but the principle of the matter. The processor should not be allowed to do whatever they want, but even further Clubworld should be concerned with this and it should have been addressed by now.

 

[Stovetopp]

Yes indeed not only is it an overcharge on the amount authorized, but then you also get charged the international fee. So yes indeed it is getting more expensive.

I did post before that Karolina was going to look into this. I did hear anything. I have spoke via message and phone begging her to look into this. I am quite familiar with processors and the actual process. Its really not the money but the principle of the matter. The processor should not be allowed to do whatever they want, but even further Clubworld should be concerned with this and it should have been addressed by now.

yeah ,whatt is this internatinal fee BS? I have never seen it before until recently and it appears as a separate charge on my bank statement

Any idea? I am afraid to ask the bank
Although , its cost of doing business from our point of view. It cost me $20 bucks to drive to a casino so I am down 20 bucks before I even start gambling, not counting the $7.00 valet parking and the tips to waitresses and just in case you get hungry....So really I shouoldn't complain abt $1.28 international fee

 

[Mousey]

If you look closely at the message you receive after a deposit, it actually says that you will be charged some slightly different amount than your deposit, but that "IT WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THAN THE ACTUAL DEPOSIT".

This clearly isn't happening, as we're being charged significantly more than the deposit. However, I do have faith that if you contact club world, they will refund you the overage.

They began doing that a long time ago... Deposit $25.00 and they would take $24.97 (or similar) just so it would look like a 'real' transaction I guess.

Some cards/banks do charge international fees and these should show up on our statements. It's that weird 'missing' .80 or $1.46 or whatever extra that isn't tracked anywhere that gets my goat. My prepaid also charges $1 per tranasaction. No problem. I may not like it, but I know about it before I deposit. Last time I played a bit... during T'giving I guess it was... I ended up with my card balance in the red due to those 'unlisted' charges, even though I allow an average of $2 ($1 for card fee, $1 for 'whatever') and I don't like it. We have enough trouble keeping a card working at casinos without going into the red on them.

 

[Deanna]

They began doing that a long time ago... Deposit $25.00 and they would take $24.97 (or similar) just so it would look like a 'real' transaction I guess.

Some cards/banks do charge international fees and these should show up on our statements. It's that weird 'missing' .80 or $1.46 or whatever extra that isn't tracked anywhere that gets my goat. My prepaid also charges $1 per tranasaction. No problem. I may not like it, but I know about it before I deposit. Last time I played a bit... during T'giving I guess it was... I ended up with my card balance in the red due to those 'unlisted' charges, even though I allow an average of $2 ($1 for card fee, $1 for 'whatever') and I don't like it. We have enough trouble keeping a card working at casinos without going into the red on them.

Yes, I've always payed the international transaction fee and tried to accommodate that into my bank balance. Like you I kind of add "extra" mentally to make sure it's covered but yes, same thing, I didn't realize the processor was hacking off extra until I logged in and saw I was "this" close to being overdrawn. I hate that panicky run to the bank feeling!

And yeah, the exact wording after you make a charge is:
Your transaction will appear on your cardholder statement as:
$ 24.99 USD SUI 442032397068 MAKATI CITY PH
The above charge amount may vary due to the locations of our banks and will always be less than the amount credited to your account.

Gee, really? So I have $25.74 pending and they'll snooker another.10 off at the end.

And yes, if you contact them and give them your bank statements they'll give you a credit but jeesh, I have three different bank accounts I use. I shouldn't have to be pulling them up, cutting and pasting them, etc. Honestly, maybe CWC needs to give an automatic 3% EXTRA when we make charges to instantly compensate for what's being taken.

 

[cheetahwind]

This is where Slotocash and Slotland have it right.
Right in the cashier at Slotocash, they have a warning because of the exchange rate. Sometimes these foreign banks can't process spot on to what they think they can.
Before you even have the transaction processed at Slotland, they even tell you there may be some overcharge or undercharge varying on the exchange rate between the processor and me.
I really don't think it's that hard for Club World to post something similar. Then again, maybe I don't under how the the RTG cashier system works.

 

[laneace44]

I made a deposit on All star slots using cc today and I got charged twice once by eldorado and one by some worldcs24.com. That really ticks me off, has anyone else had this happen?

 

[BMWSTACK]

I made a deposit on All star slots using cc today and I got charged twice once by eldorado and one by some worldcs24.com. That really ticks me off, has anyone else had this happen?

Did you have to submit the charge twice because you did it once and didn't think it went thru? I believe if your not patient and refresh or exit out the charge doesn't show up in your balance so people put the charge through again.

 

[laneace44]

Did you have to submit the charge twice because you did it once and didn't think it went thru? I believe if your not patient and refresh or exit out the charge doesn't show up in your balance so people put the charge through again.

No, I tried to deposit once and it failed to go through, so they have an option for trying again with an alternative processor then it went through. My casino account was credited only once and the two charges showed up on my card right away.

 

[slotplayer]

been a year since I played online, I thought it was feb 22 but it seems my last deposit was march 4th, 2012. just to correct a post I made a while back.


in any event, I looked at my deposit emails from club usa, buzzluck, sloto and las vegas USA, none were for more than the amount deposited, actually all were less except for las vegas USA which was to the exact dollar amount.

My little bank does charge that international transaction fee whereas my other bank did not.

All the club emails did say less than. they all seem to highlight it in yellow.

of course it was a year ago so maybe the processors are different now.

 

[spintee]

I had nearly 4 quid gbp disaper the other week, I rang bank up and said a charge from over sees, and the best thing about it is thatI did not even depo? all I done was added a new card, The money went back in to my bank a few days later, Yes sometimes they do take a small amout of cash from your card, (forget what its called now) just to make sure card and urself who u say you are, But this has always been 1 pound, But I have alaso been told that this has now stoped? When ever I have used a credit card in U.K there has been a charge for 2.50 no matter what the deposit as, I only use debit card now as some sites do not even pay back to credit cards, But thats probly another charge,