IGlobalMedia Video Poker software glitch

[eric5148]

Yesterday I was playing Deuces Wild (download version) at Casino County, which uses IGlobalMedia software.

In a span of 76 hands I was dealt the exact same hand twice in a row three different times. The first time it happened, I didn't really notice, I thought the hands were just similar, but not identical. The second time I was sure they were identical, but I just assumed it was a fluke. The third time, I was in disbelief that this could happen twice in such short period of time, so I went back to the game logs just to make sure my eyes weren't fooling me, and that's when I noticed the first time was actually identical as well.

I'm not shouting "rigged" here, I'm just saying this couldn't be random, and therefore, not would I consider a fair and honest game. If this is a software glitch, it obviously needs to be fixed

I'm not great at math, so if anyone can figure out the probability of this happening, that would be much appreciated.

I sent an email to Casino County yesterday at about 9 pm CT. They haven't responded yet.

Here are some screenshots of the game logs:

-Eric

 

[big_mac]

I reckon that the chance of having a hand exactly the same as the previous, in the same order, is less than 1 in 300 million.

 

[big_mac]

According to my amateurish calculations, I think that this should happen about once in 21,065,900,682,426,200,000,000

(that is based on getting the first one once in 311 million, then another one in the next 32 hands at once in 9.74 million, then once again in the next 45 hands at once in 6.93 million. Hopefully somebody who actually knows what they are doing will give a better answer).

 

[eric5148]

According to my amateurish calculations, I think that this should happen about once in 21,065,900,682,426,200,000,000

I think that estimation is all I need to see, lol. It's not really important what the actual odds are, just that we know that it's not bloody likely.

Still no response from Casino County. I sure won't be playing there until this gets fixed.

 

[realwtfsup]

No more playing there for me.

 

[largeeyes]

Jaw dropping. Something IGM better be addressing PRONTO.

 

[nafanny29]

My guess is that you will never get two identical five card hands dealt to you in the same order in your lifetime.

 

[dominique]

Which version is this? Download? Java? HTML?

I have played VP extensively on the IG download version and never saw anything unusual.

 

[caruso]

Thanks to the poster for proving my long-held view that this software is rigged up to the eyeballs. This is conclusive beyond question.

I'm not shouting "rigged" here, I'm just saying this couldn't be random

This is a widely held misconception, that "non random" does not equal "rigged" in all practical senses. If it is random the cards are dealt according to natural probability. If it is non-random, cards are NOT dealt according to natural probability. When blackjack or video poker cards are dealt under the latter condition, the game is rigged. Non-random equals rigged. Call it "unintentional rigging" if you want to be generous; call it "buggy" if you want to be polite.

It remains rigged.

 

[eric5148]

Caruso:

This is how my dictionary defines the word rig: to manipulate or control esp. by deceptive or dishonest means. To fix in advance for a desired result.

The proof I have here is not proof of rigging. It's a possibility, but not proof that anything is in their favor. It's proof that the software doesn't perform as the casino claims.

Believe me, I'm more pissed about this than you are. But if they wanted to rig the software in their favor, this would be far from the best way to do it.


Meanwhile, I still haven't heard from Casino County, which means it's time to inform everyone I can about this. This is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[sw2003]

Given a previous hand, the chance of getting the same 5 cards (suit and number) in the same order drawing from a single deck of cards is
1/(52x51x50x49x48) = 1/311,875,200 or approximately 1 in 312 million.

Now repeat that for two more times!
IGlobalMedia's software is just terrific!

 

[Vesuvio]

Posting from the slowest internet connection in the world here... but I had exactly the same thing happen to me - https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/iglobalmedia-invisible-cards-trick.5628/

Your logs are better - I would have been able to show a few cases except Golden Stars Casino wouldn't let me see logs. After a number of e-mails they finally decided to stop giving excuses and admitted there was something wrong with their software (& gave me a $5 bonus ). In my case it looked as though I might not have been charged for the second occurence of the hand, but in your case it seems you were.

If there was real regulation in the casino industry such a serious bug would lead to the casino being closed until they'd fix it... but as things stand I suppose the best we can do is advise people not to play there.

 

[caruso]

Why would you choose to defend a casino whose software is such obvious crap? Did you read my blackjack glitch thread?

The VP is screwed up; the blackjack is screwed up; how many more screenshots need to be posted before it can tentatively be suggested that iGM software has the small possibility of being complete junk?

 

[largeeyes]

I'd say, given the time this has been out there, IGM and the clan must make some sort of reply/statement/explanation on monday. I mean, how can they continue to let imaginations run rampant?

 

[eric5148]

Why would you choose to defend a casino whose software is such obvious crap? Did you read my blackjack glitch thread?

The VP is screwed up; the blackjack is screwed up; how many more screenshots need to be posted before it can tentatively be suggested that iGM software has the small possibility of being complete junk?

So... I posted these screenshots because I'm trying to defend IGM? Right, that makes perfect sense.

We've already suggested the software is junk. You were the one suggesting it was rigged, which is completely different.

 

[Freudian]

It seems like a clumsy way to cheat their customers, if that was their intention.
My wild guess it that it is somehow related to lag or server capacity. That when overloaded somehow the last starting hand get repeated.

Either way it clearly shows that their RNG is not particularly R under certain circumstances. It doesn't matter if it is through malice or incompetence (it would have to be mallice and incompetence in that way). Either way the game should be shut down at all casinos using this software. I suspect that won't happen though.

So until everything is cleared, people should avoid all casinos using the same software.

 

[eric5148]

I posted this on 2+2 and someone gave an explanation for this glitch. Look in the Internet Gambling forum.

 

[chuchu59]

From the hands played,I noticed something else. It seems that for any hand played,the next hand will come up with 2 of the cards (not suited) from the former hand. This is broken only by the rare occurence of a deuce or the identical hands. However,even that can be traced to the hands before thes eoccurences with 3 of the cards being the same ie. hands 74 and 77,30 and 33,5 and 7. In deuces wild,these recurrences are unlikely to enable the player to win. Coincidence,maybe but I wouldnt bet on it.

 

[Vesuvio]

This is the explanation on the other forum (I hope no-one minds if I post the link - it took a while to find!):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This is exactly the way it seemed to work for me. I was allowed to draw twice to the same cards but only charged once. I think I hit nothing on any of the occasions it happened, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's true that the first is ignored and only whatever you draw the second time counts. So, as mentioned in the link, if someone drew to a Royal Flush on the first draw the software wouldn't register it and iGlobalMedia & the casino in question would find themselves in serious trouble.

It must just be a bug, but an incredible one that removes all confidence in their 'RNG' - the worst thing is that judging from the comments on the other forum (& Eric's case & mine) this is something they've known about for a long time and done nothing to fix.

I wonder if iGlobalMedia or any of the casinos using their software would like to comment on here

 

[The Dude]

I am in the process of contacting iGM at the moment on this.

 

[caruso]

So... I posted these screenshots because I'm trying to defend IGM? Right, that makes perfect sense.

My comments weren't addressed to you.

Since a lot of drum-beating is currently occuring along the lines of "the poor widdle casino isn't doing it intentionally": we can pointlessly nit-pick all we want about "dictionary definitions", but whether the cheating is occuring by design or accident doesn't alter the practicality that the player is being cheated. Maybe you think iGM looks "morally superior" if they simply haven't got a clue what's going on as opposed to willfully cheating, but my own specs are less rose-tinted; as far as I'm concerned, casinos that offer junk software that malfunctions are no better than casinos that willfully cheat. Negligence is not an issue. Cheating is cheating.

 

[The Dude]

They are already aware of this thread, and their tech people are looking into this.

 

[caruso]

I am in the process of contacting iGM at the moment on this.

Maybe they'd care to comment on that software glitch in the blackjack game I posted. I contacted them as you requested back then, and I'm still awaiting a reply. That's pretty naff in the circumstances. I even said I was emailing at your behest.

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/iglobalmedia-invisible-cards-trick.5628/

 

[Freudian]

My comments weren't addressed to you.

Since a lot of drum-beating is currently occuring along the lines of "the poor widdle casino isn't doing it intentionally": we can pointlessly nit-pick all we want about "dictionary definitions", but whether the cheating is occuring by design or accident doesn't alter the practicality that the player is being cheated. Maybe you think iGM looks "morally superior" if they simply haven't got a clue what's going on as opposed to willfully cheating, but my own specs are less rose-tinted; as far as I'm concerned, casinos that offer junk software that malfunctions are no better than casinos that willfully cheat. Negligence is not an issue. Cheating is cheating.

No one is saying that it can't be blatant cheating or rigging. Just that we don't know right now, based on the screenshots. We don't even know if it alters the payout in any way. We all agree it is very serious whatever the reason.

I know you are passionate about these things, but jumping to conclusions helps no one. It is very serious that these flaws have been pointed out to the casinos in the past and it is still not working as it should.

 

[dominique]

I would still like to know which version was played - download, java or HTML.

Anyone? Thanks!

 

[eric5148]

It was the download version.

 

[Vesuvio]

I played the Java version for VP (Jacks or Better rather than Eric's Deuces Wild) - his logs look as though they might be from the download version, but I'm not sure (I like your Christmas log fire, btw ). I had similar problems to Caruso with the BJ while playing the download version.

It's weird that their software gives you fewer games and options if you download it than if you play in Java. Overall it just gives the impression of being a bit slapdash & underdeveloped.

 

[dominique]

It's weird that their software gives you fewer games and options if you download it than if you play in Java. Overall it just gives the impression of being a bit slapdash & underdeveloped.

It has some avid followers - usually female. The features in the video poker and slots are very attractive to the ladies, they add a different dimension to the game. Playful and a bit suspenseful. I like them myself.

 

[The Dude]

Just an update that the software provider has been in touch with me, and they are still investigating this fully.

 

[largeeyes]

Been a week since the last update, what's up? Are they too busy with all their mergers to check the software?

 

[arbster]

They may also like to look at the fact that when playing multiple tables at Party Poker, if a hand starts at the same time on two tables you get identical hole cards. There is something very wrong with the whole setup over there.

 

[bpb]

They may also like to look at the fact that when playing multiple tables at Party Poker, if a hand starts at the same time on two tables you get identical hole cards. There is something very wrong with the whole setup over there.

In all my play at Party Poker I have NEVER seen this. Could you please provide several sets of hand numbers demonstrating this?

 

[arbster]

Okay, sorry, my mistake. It's the flop that is the same if they are dealt simultaneously. I've started playing multiple tables here recently, but others have done so more often. It's quite a hard thing to capture as it happens, but I can send you a link to an image if you want (not my image so don't want to post it here).

The guy who got the screenshot saw it happen "quite often" in that session, but he plays 4 tables simultaneously. If it helps I guess I could ask him to scan back through. If you play multiple tables frequently, perhaps scanning through your logs would satisfy you that two hands where the flops are dealt simultaneously did not have the same flop?

 

[paul1]

Okay, sorry, my mistake. It's the flop that is the same if they are dealt simultaneously. I've started playing multiple tables here recently, but others have done so more often. It's quite a hard thing to capture as it happens, but I can send you a link to an image if you want (not my image so don't want to post it here).

The guy who got the screenshot saw it happen "quite often" in that session, but he plays 4 tables simultaneously. If it helps I guess I could ask him to scan back through. If you play multiple tables frequently, perhaps scanning through your logs would satisfy you that two hands where the flops are dealt simultaneously did not have the same flop?

Wow. Nevermind the Flop. Is the Turn and River the same? Gee, THAT would be handy information to have knowledge of. I'd like to see that link you speak of.

 

[The Dude]

Been a week since the last update, what's up? Are they too busy with all their mergers to check the software?

Most of these guys are in India. I think their minds are on other things at the moment.

 

[pokeraddict]

They may also like to look at the fact that when playing multiple tables at Party Poker, if a hand starts at the same time on two tables you get identical hole cards. There is something very wrong with the whole setup over there.

I have over 200,000 Party Poker and skins hands I have played and are also in my pokertracker, I have never seen this type of pattern or anything with flops, sometimes they may flop same value cards at different tables at same time but if they arent exactly the same suit and value then they are different cards to the RNG. Actually it would be normal if you played 10,000-12,000 hands a week to see the exact same cards flop on two tables at the same time once a week. Is my math off? About 1 in 12,000 to pick the same 3 cards that were picked hand before?

 

[Clayman]

About 1 in 12,000 to pick the same 3 cards that were picked hand before?

I'm not real good at this stuff but I would say (1/52*1/51*1/50)/(3*2*1)=22100. Same thing as combin(52,3).

What did you do?

 

[pokeraddict]

I made a math error is what i did. So its once every 2 weeks for people who play for a living.

 

[largeeyes]

Speaking of being in india, is party just about the ONLY place not running a benefit tourney? Even some of these obscure places are.


Man, I'm starting to sound like I bash party/igm all the time.

 

[paul02085]

Yeah, if Party contributed their rake for 1 day would probably rebuild everything

 

[erp1]

Just an update that the software provider has been in touch with me, and they are still investigating this fully.

Any news?

 

[erp1]

Has IGlobalMedia published the result of their investigation?

 

[dave_r]

I want to remind everyone here that IGlobalMedia is still a member of the Interactive Gaming Council.

If the IGC were a true player watchdog, they would have terminated IGLobalMedia's (formerly Handa-Lopez's) membership a long time ago.

Lack of regulation = A LICENSE TO STEAL.

Also, ECogra is no better than the IGC.

Here's a great Analogy . . .

RTG is to Safebet ... as...

Ecogra is to Microgaming & CON

Andy Beveridge once assured me that casinos from other software developers would be inspected and approved.

This hasn't happened YET.
What a joke these so-called watchdog agencies are!
They are bought and paid for by the industry.

There will never be true regulation of internet casinos unless the U.S. government decides to legalize and tax them.

The only reason the IGC threw out GFED is it was bad for the competing casinos. Hahaha. The IGC could care less about the players.

Dave

 

[caruso]

Oooooooooooooh, I think that'll go down like a pork butcher at a vegetarian convention here.

Welcome back, soul mate.

 

[spearmaster]

Talk about a blast from the past... welcome back, Dave

Re: eCOGRA, have you noticed that CON and Microgaming are two separate entities and that eCOGRA has its own offices and staff, whereas RTG ran their OWN regulatory scheme out of their OWN offices with their OWN staff?

I agree with you that there should be more manufacturers - unfortunately, this is a big issue which cannot easily be resolved without the manufacturers themselves actively working to make this a possibility. But this is still a distinct possibility and I'm sure you will see some positive developments soon.

 

[The Dude]

Welcome back Dave_r - long time no see/post.

I agree - there are problems - the US government is way way out of touch with what needs to happen - I do not see online casinos being regulated in the US - probably never. Europe is much more progressive in these matters. Hell, women can go topless at the beach here and no one cares. Regulation WILL happen in Europe way before the US gets off its lazy agenda filled ass.

RTG is to Safebet ... as...
...Ecogra is to Microgaming & CON

Andy Beveridge once assured me that casinos from other software developers would be inspected and approved.

This hasn't happened YET.

Sorry dude, can't disagree with you more here. One thing to bear in mind is that the review/inspection process is time consuming, sometimes taking up to a year. I know of another group that is in the last stages of accreditation - and they have nothing to do with the other brands. If I didn't believe in them, I wouldn't be backing them up the way I do.

But let us not digress - iGlobal is the focus point here. Ted and I met with the iGlobal folks in January at the ICE and spent a good hour going over what needs to happen to clear some matters up. I am a little surprised that nearly two months have gone by, and there have been no follow ups. I guess it's time to revisit this issue.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[jetset]

I saw an interview with Beveridge up at Poker News.com a few days ago in which he identified the Ongame-Poker Room company - a totally different software and a major *player* in the online poker sector - as in the final stages of Seal accreditation.

MGS and CON casinos probably account for the majority of online casino business.

How many different softwares have to be on board before you regard this initiative as credible, Dave?

 

[dave_r]

This reminds me of the good ole' days!!

I'm baaaack ... if only just for a couple days just to say hi to everyone, especially the Meister who has turned out to be a huge force for positive developments in this industry.

Welp, like I said a long time ago when Ecogra was first created, I strongly believe it is a shill for Microgaming, and all orders end up coming from Martin & Anthony Moshal. The office may be elsewhere, but it is run by MGS, just as INFINIA (now under a different name) is run by MGS. Remember a long time ago, when I came up with enough evidence to show that Infinia was run right out MGS's Isle of Man offices. What a joke. The phone # was the same as that of MGS. The funniest thing was Spearmaster's comment that MGS was "renting out it's office space." I got a good kick out of that. Anyway, Bryan we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

As far as IglobalMedia, I really hoped and prayed that this zebra could change its stripes. It seems that they are up to thier old tricks. Only they now realize that in order to be competative, they need to pay instantly.

All IGM sites should be boycotted INCLUDING PARTYPOKER. If they can cheat at thier casinos, whose to say they can't be cheating in thier poker room. Perhaps they are inventing phony players (robots) to steal peoples money.

As for Spear and Jetset, I believe both of you have become extremely one-sided in your commentary, and you both should take a step back and realize that this is an industry built on greed and corruption, and that no amount of self policing is going to solve the problem. Watchdog sites like Bryan's are a good start in the right direction, but are not the ultimate solution.

True government regulation needs to be implemented by a country that is willing to enforce policies with teeth. If this doesn't happen, the fox will continue to guard the henhouse, and the players will continue to get screwed by dishonest software that turns off royal flushes and/or elimates quads... software that forces in a "cheat mode" when a player doubles his 11 in bj and instead of a picture coming out, a 2 comes instead.

I want to remind everyone that computers can be programmed to do ANYTHING, and the IGlobal situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Trying to prove this is a daunting task, but we should all use common sense.

Save your real gambling for a land based casino. Gamble small online, and flat bet, so you can easily detect for cheating. If you want to play a progression use the following technique:

Casino A : Flat bet $5 per hand
Cainio B : Flay bet $10 per hand
Casino C: $20
Casino D: $40

Always be the same exact amount for every hand at each casino. Let's see if casino "take down" modes are sophisticated enough to defeat this. Chances are NO "take down" mode will ever kick in since software developers don't like to cheat flat bettors since detection is much easier.

After you have 1000 + hands at all casinos, you can immediately figure out your EV, and compare this to your actual results. And there's a lot less chance you'll get screwed.

Ubfortunately, even when I flat bet with 2 playtech sites and the results don't look good at bj.

Sites #1: 1690 hands Down 3.2 SD
Site #2: 3380 hands down 2.6 SD

Really strange results. I was playing the Playtech strategy listed at Wizard of Odds.

 

[paul1]

If the IGC were a true player watchdog, they would have terminated IGLobalMedia's (formerly Handa-Lopez's) membership a long time ago.

Welcome back Dave R.

I learned something here today. I did not realize that IGM was Handa-Lopez. OMG! I guess I got into this online gambling thing a little late. But when I first started learning about it, I do remember reading that Handa-Lopez was notorious for crooked software and to be avoided. Now, four years later, I had no idea they changed to IGM at some point.

Can someone shed some more light on THAT? Or point me to a link/thread about it? Thanks.

 

[spearmaster]

I would hardly say I've become one-sided, Dave - if you take a look at my participation in things - even back to 2000 - you will see that I am anything but one-sided.

Let me remind you that I was one of the first (well, actually the first after the announcement made in Bermuda) to take a very pessimistic stance against eCOGRA, and until recently remained solidly on the fence.

After meeting with them, having watched their activity for some time, learning of developments in progress, I am beginning to believe that they could well become a powerful force in the industry.

That does not mean I agree with them 100%, nor does it mean I 100% support them. And certainly, given my past skepticism, I would find it a very big stretch to call this stance one-sided But I do believe they are well-informed and prepared and that they most certainly take every situation seriously.

Have I mellowed? Yeah, okay, I can accept that. But one-sided I have certainly not been, am not currently, and likely will never become.

With regard to Infinia... LOL... if I recall correctly, you are talking about a domain name which may certainly have been registered by the same person doing registrations on behalf of Microgaming. But the office was in London, as was the phone number, and having recently visited Microgaming's new headquarters I can absolutely guarantee that Infinia is not located there. Is there a relationship between them? Most certainly. How close is that relationship? Don't know. But it is definitely not ownership and as far as I know it never has been.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming... LOL... iglobalmedia USED Handa-Lopez software, they weren't Handa-Lopez that I can recall. And you will also know that neither Meister nor I have ever carried advertising for iglobalmedia casinos, though I do presently carry advertising for Party Poker - and actually turned down the casino advertising they wanted to do.