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IMPORTANT - CAP Euro Event Changes

A

alexpratt

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
London
Hi all,

Please see below some PR on the CAP events that will be going out today - Don't worry the changes are all 100% positive in that everything that was great about the events will be retained but admission will be easier for all affiliates and their will be a name change so the event will be 100% independent.

I am in Budapest today sorting the venue and parties for our September event so may not be able to respond to any questions but don't worry I will reply - Also have to announce the key note who I think is awesome!

The new site by the way will be up by Tues so please continue to use the old sites for the moment.

Speak soon
 
Thanks Alex!

If the poker is going ahead, I might just make the trip! :thumbsup:


I found this part of the press release the most amusing:-
Casino Affiliate Programs (CAP), founders and former co-producers of the show will continue to take a positive role in the event, promoting it to their 8300+ affiliates and affiliate programs.

However CAP has decided instead to focus its efforts on developing the portal, forum and online assets...
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i.e. Trying to rescue the last few remnants of what was once a great portal until is was decimated by it's two owners going into self-destruct mode...

If either of those two proven liars and cheats are still in charge, it will never get back to how it was before...

It's tragic. :(
KK
 
Glad to see a move toward harmony in the affiliate space by opening up admission to non-CAP affiliates, too.

Was any consideration paid to CAP by iGaming Business as a quid pro quo for taking over the events going forward, or did CAP et al simply relinquish control?
 
That almost certainly had something to do with it, that and the need to do some damage limitation perhaps, but I can't see CAP management letting a lucrative business like this go for zip, hence my still unanswered question about what consideration was paid.

Or is there perhaps an under-the-counter revenue sharing deal going on here out of the public eye?

I hate to be cynical, but after the events of the last few months I believe almost anything is possible....

By the way, JustRed, I like your signature "A proudly single dimensional affiliate!"
 
Hi sorry for late reply - Have been in Budapest which by the way is an incredible city and is going to be perfect for the Sept event - Just need someone to sponsor this boat I went on - Bloody amazing complete with indoor pool and massive open air roof deck

Anyway - back to business -

The ASOP is happening there is some strict legal stuff we need to work out but its all good and will eb happening = More info on that in the next two weeks

The registration system for teh event is an external company which we used so no need to reregister because we look after all teh back end for that and as such it will all flip over by Tuesday with the new website

The deal - It is still complicated - Sorry rubbish answer I know - The first thing we really wanted to do was relaunch the name and makes some fundamental changes which included letting all affiliates in, charging the same for all operators (don't worry rogues will not be allowed) This has taken a bit of time - As i say in the PR though CAP do genuinely want to concentrate on their offering and sorting that so it reflects what the sector wants - This worked well for us as it meant we could take on the events 100% which is what we were pretty much doing anyway.

The rule I have is what ever the deal it won't be hidden and will stand the "Gambling 911" litmas test - Please bare with me

I really love putting on these events and have learnt a shed load over the past two years (prior to these I had never done an event in my life) but most of all I want them to continue to be great, offer value to everyone and for us all to use them for business, relaxation, fun, networking, etc SO hopefully now we can get back on track :thumbsup:
 
Can't really discuss a lot of what is happening in a public forum as you probably understand since we working a lot of stuff out at the moment and none of it is finalised but there is a lot of chat going on and things are changing for the better.

What I dopn't want to do is simply BS and tell you a load of crap so please bare with me on that one so I can pass the litmas test :-)
 
I havent had time to study up on the complete company /subcompaines of CAP/Lou /Warren but do they own any part of Igaming Business?If effective Media/Affiliate Media or any of Lou and Warren's comparnies are still invested in these events then it is nothing more than a name change and damage control Move.
Or are they letting Alex take over their event as a front person while still in the back room counting their cash?Enquiring Minds want to know :)I know alex always organised events but Cap always got the credit -just trying to understand the financial relationship here and no reflection on what I think of Alex.
 
casinobonusguy said:
I havent had time to study up on the complete company /subcompaines of CAP/Lou /Warren but do they own any part of Igaming Business?If effective Media/Affiliate Media or any of Lou and Warren's comparnies are still invested in these events then it is nothing more than a name change and damage control Move.
Or are they letting Alex take over their event as a front person while still in the back room counting their cash?Enquiring Minds want to know :)I know alex always organised events but Cap always got the credit -just trying to understand the financial relationship here and no reflection on what I think of Alex.
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Hey There,

iGaming Business has zerom ownership ties with CAP, the owners, or shareholders - It is a business owned by a company called Electricword which is floated on the London Stock Exchange so v easy to check out - Here is the parent and corporate site which isn't very exciting as its for investors and shareholders
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As you can see we work in loads of different markets including education and sport

In terms of the financial side of the events - It is all being discussed and is honestly up in the air right now - I understand people's waryness (how do you spell that?) especially based on past statements etc but I, the events, the magazine etc have always been decent and honest and put affiliates interest first and I promise I will continue this going forward - When things are finalised and clear I will update everyone
 
winbig said:
Wish I could be there, would love to hear Dave Irvine's keynote speech and Q&A session. :thumbsup:
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Hopefully (99%) we will record this and get it up online and if you have any questions let me know and I will get them asked
 
winbig said:
I'm sure others will come up with better questions than I could, so I'm sure they'll get covered..:)

Any chance you guys will stream this live, seeing as how it's free for affiliates now?
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Will look into it - We did that at another conference and it worked well but not sure if it was super expensive or not. I will let you know
 
Hi All,

The above email is regarding the online offering from CAP and has zero relevence on the events so please can we not make this a CAP bashing thread as I genuinely want to maintain the success we have had with the events and build them up even more.

So far the reaction to what we are doing has been positive and although some people are questioning the deal which is understandable based on the past, this is a minority. Please remember the events and mag have always been top notch and have 100% been about putting affiliates first and for them to be swallowed up in the politics of the situation would be massively disapointing when we have come so far with them.

If you have any questiosn regarding the events, our plans, the relaunch, etc please feel free.


Cheers

Alex
 
So basically then what Alex is saying is that Lou and Warren will no longer have any monetary benefit from Alex's' efforts of promoting the CAP Brand, as in the CAP Events and the CAP Magazine and other marketing material and events that have benefited the CAP brothers over the years...is that what you guys are saying here now??

Just trying to get my head wrapped around the fact that as hard as Alex is still promoting the CAP brand that it will or will not benefit Lou and Warren here.

I mean, can we please state it like it really is...thanks.
 
RobWin said:
...
Just trying to get my head wrapped around the fact that as hard as Alex is still promoting the CAP brand that it will or will not benefit Lou and Warren here.

I mean, can we please state it like it really is...thanks.
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Don't minding stating like it really is, but keeping things in order is the prerogative here :D

This thread is about the events - the discussion on CAP's new management can be found here:
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/30194/
 
I honestly do not believe that this event can be regarded as separate and distinct from the legitimate enquiries - albeit by a "minority" - as to its association with CAP/AMI.:mad:

I therefore do not perceive enquiries such as the commercial arrangements surrounding the claimed change of ownership of CAP Euro - AAC as a "derail".

Considering the lies and deceptions that have characterised CAP-AMI manoeuvres recently, there is certain to be curiosity and perhaps even cynicism concerning this move... and the apparent lack of transparency that accompanies it.

Surely the ownership of the event would not have been simply handed over without an agreement in place, and if that is the case why are the broad terms of such an agreement being kept under wraps?

I don't personally know Alex Pratt, but people who's opinion I respect have vouched for him and I accept that unreservedly.

I'm afraid the same cannot be said for some of the other industry people who must presumably have been involved in this high profile transaction and brand change.
 
Hey There,

When I said derailing - I meant in the sense that I could see this thread suddenly switch into a discussion about CAP, their online offering, the new management etc etc.

I can though also see why people would see this as relevent to this thread because afterall the events and mag did used to be tied up very closely with CAP and again I understand the sceptisism based on the various statements etc etc that have been released in the past. I think the only way for me to maintain and also gain people's trust is to continue what me and my team have done from the start 2 1/2 years ago with the events and mag and that is to be 100% up front, honest and decent

The hardest thing for me at the moment is convicning people I don't work for CAP and that iGaming Business isn't owned by CAP and the events and mag wern't simply a contract publishing/event agreemeent. I have been involved from the start and am determined to not let this business disappear because of what ever has happened with CAP - The feedback we get on the events and the mag have consistantly been positive and yes we have made mistakes and I hope we have learnt from the majority of them, BUT it would pain me massively to see what we have taken care to build suddenly dissapear.

Anyhow I am going on - What I am trying to say is that really only time will tell with regards to what I am telling you as you can either believe me now or watch and check me at every stage and I hope in 3, 6, or even 12 months I will have proven that I am a man of my word and will not BS or skate around an issue and really have one aim and that is to deliver the best mags and events in our industry.

On the finanacial side - I can only re quote what I said before - See below - I am sorry this is vague but it really is all in the air as there is a lot to agree on and discuss and these things take time.

In terms of the financial side of the events - It is all being discussed and is honestly up in the air right now - I understand people's waryness (how do you spell that?) especially based on past statements etc but I, the events, the magazine etc have always been decent and honest and put affiliates interest first and I promise I will continue this going forward - When things are finalised and clear I will update everyone
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IMO Alex you are still doing no more than you have in the past by still Branding the CAP name and further benefiting the owners of CAP. If you are so intend on continuing along these lines then why not just put all of your efforts into Branding the "iGaming" name and doing your own magazine and your own "iGaming Branded Conference" ?? Otherwise, no matter how many ways of Sunday that you spin it you are still benefiting CAP...bottom line!
 
Understood - The mag is actually called iGaming Business Affiliate Magazine - You will see this for the next issue (April/May) although may shorten this to iGB Affiliate Magazine

The problem was this wasn't planned - I landed in Macau to attend AIG and whilst sitting drinking beers with SpearMaster the texts, calls and emails started arriving about the whole situation and all I knew was that there was some urgent changes to be made and set about making these happen. At the time the name wasn't what was super important to us so we went with something generic hence Amsterdam Affiliate Conference, Budapest etc etc -

This importantly meant that we could the domain, could rebrand quickly and easily and then afterwards we could then re look at the brand etc and make a decision on whether we want a central name such as iGaming Affiliate events, a new brand or keep the generic terms but tbh everything has changed in just 2 weeks for me and I am just trying to keep up, we have literally had to get a logo, redesign the mag, get an event brochure done, print 8,000, post them, get a website up, get pr out, speak to all the clients, and so on.

Its been one hell of a ride and isn't over yet, still lots to discuss, finalise etc - This is why things are aren't 100% clear at the moment as there really is a shed load going on in the back ground on top of the usual work of hosting and organising a show, publishing mags, developing the business etc.
 

Thanks for further explaining the situation Alex. This makes a lot more sense now since you put it into perspective there in that last post and I would personally like to see "iGaming Business" flourish and do well.
 
alexpratt said:
The problem was this wasn't planned - I landed in Macau to attend AIG and whilst sitting drinking beers with SpearMaster the texts, calls and emails started arriving about the whole situation and all I knew was that there was some urgent changes to be made and set about making these happen.
Click to expand...

Very true - first thing I asked when I saw him is "Have you seen what happened yet?" knowing that it was likely he was actually on the plane when everything started... by that time his Blackberry was literally buzzing and ringing off the hook...

The next night - over noodles and the Bruce Lee slots - the decision had more or less been made to see what could be done. Obviously he had many more phone calls and discussions to finish first, though.

Throughout this period I was amazed that Alex kept his good humour and that smile on his face (though a bit wry!). I know I certainly couldn't have done that so all credit to him for keeping his composure during trying times!

Obviously it was more than a few days later before Alex could reveal the details of what decision had been reached and what had been done - but I can 100% assure you he was on the situation right from the get-go.
 
RobWin said:
Thanks for further explaining the situation Alex. This makes a lot more sense now since you put it into perspective there in that last post and I would personally like to see "iGaming Business" flourish and do well.
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Agreed, it's just easier for many of us to support your efforts if CAP or any of their related entities aren't deriving financial benefits in the process.

I know you can't really get too indepth into that currently, because things are still messy. But just realize that is the primary issue for many involved here, we don't want to do anything that is going to result in a benefit for Lou and Warren.
 
spearmaster said:
Very true - first thing I asked when I saw him is "Have you seen what happened yet?" knowing that it was likely he was actually on the plane when everything started... by that time his Blackberry was literally buzzing and ringing off the hook...
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This is what I was doing when Alex was freaking out over his Blackberry in Macau :D

But seriously, I'm glad Alex seems to be taking this situation by the horns. I believe he knows what he's doing, and I have faith it'll turn out good for affiliates and the affiliate programs.
 
Casinomeister said:
This is what I was doing when Alex was freaking out over his Blackberry in Macau :D

But seriously, I'm glad Alex seems to be taking this situation by the horns. I believe he knows what he's doing, and I have faith it'll turn out good for affiliates and the affiliate programs.
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:cool: Cool pic my friend, but I'm surprised to see you on skis and not a snowboard, I personally like snowboarding better now since I started it three years ago...:D
 
I don't want to harp on this, but there is a serious question of credibility from the get-go here imo, and that is turning on the lack of transparency which still bedevils this transaction.

Alex's personal and business reputation is such that he does not need to defend himself here, but his board of directors at iGaming Business should be made aware that failing to furnish the fundamental details of this transaction could impact their credibility going forward.

And the cynical will continue to suspect that certain individuals are still intimately and profitably involved (beyond mere sponsorship) in the enterprise, given their previous business deceptions.

I suggest that that would do little to enhance a new and independent events regime such as Alex has suggested in his various posts here.

If this is a straight commercial deal in which iGaming has paid (or is to pay) a consideration to AMI or its management for the exclusive right to take over these events as an independent venture, then I would have no problem at all with that....but it needs to be out in the open and not cloaked as a transaction that is so sudden and messy as to preclude the basics being disclosed.

The truth will eventually out - and if it transpires that iGaming Business was party to a further deception, that will not sit well with the industry imo.
 
Alex is very good

I have meet Alex many times - he is a class act and the people he works with are in my opinion always helpful. I am so happy to know he has cut ties with warren and Lou.

Alex has always out done himself at every event he has put on:thumbsup:

I will be at any event Alex puts on and I look forward to Budapest.
 
rikkerbuddy said:
I have meet Alex many times - he is a class act and the people he works with are in my opinion always helpful. I am so happy to know he has cut ties with warren and Lou.

Alex has always out done himself at every event he has put on:thumbsup:

I will be at any event Alex puts on and I look forward to Budapest.
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I agree - Alex is a top bloke! :thumbsup:

I've been trying to decide whether to go to CAC or AAC for several weeks... and I'm leaning heavily towards AAC at the moment... after Alex's assurance that L&W aren't pulling any strings.

KK
 
Fine post Jetset. If the CAP guys will still make money from the event and it is not disclosed and only revealed / uncovered later it will put a serious dent in Igamingbusiness' credibility.

If this turns out to be window dressing and just a name change to try and pull numbers I would have to think twice about attending any of their events.

I hope they come clean. God knows we need transaparency.
 
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Well, only 10 months later now and it appears that the truth of this IGB/Cap financial relationship is finally revealed....

Is anyone actually surprised? :rolleyes:

Looks like business as usual to me...this freaking industry will never change IMO as long as you peeps keep on supporting and/or attending these conferences that CAP is truly a beneficiary of!!

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Rob, most people knew CAP still had a strong financial link to these conferences.

I will be attending this year in it's entirety ( I only went to the morning of the opening day for the first two CAP London events and missed last years altogether ) after frequenting the ICE at Earls Court which immediately precedes it.

However my attendance is not to give CAP my approval not that it would matter a jot to them. But my sole reason in attending is to catch up with peers and acquaintances who I respect and value as friends. This is also the first opportunity I have in attending such an event since the ICE in 2009. Being only 100 miles away from my home also makes it easier.

That said I will continue to support CAC and plan to make Amsterdam this Spring. As for other CAP events, I will not be attending them.
 

Webzcas, although true, you will still be counted as an attendee but I do understand your reasoning behind attending the event, catch up with old acquaintances and all. But in that same respect I do have to agree with what "thepokerkeep" said
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at the GPWA Forum about the continuing revenue stream being generated and benefiting CAP in the big picture and scheme of things.

As long as affiliates are still willing to continue to attend these IGB/CAP events it is in fact truly helping to line the pockets of Warren and CAP. Just like "thepokerkeep" said, As long as affiliates attend, the casinos and affiliate programs will pay to be there. As long as they continue to pay then Warren and most likely Lou too if the truth be known will continue to benefit in the big picture.

If affiliates stop attending these and only show up for Marc Lesnick's events then it would certainly put a damper on new money filtering into CAP's pockets.

I also think Alex has his best interests misplaced here and is certainly in bed with the wrong peeps, just my opinion.
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RobWin said:
I also think Alex has his best interests misplaced here and is certainly in bed with the wrong peeps, just my opinion.
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I don't blame Alex here, likely the contract that was signed makes it difficult to extract their company from working with CAP on these events.

Thus the reason to vote with your feet and wallets and let others in the industry know you won't support something that benefits a company as unethical as CAP
 
PokerNations said:
I don't blame Alex here, likely the contract that was signed makes it difficult to extract their company from working with CAP on these events.

Thus the reason to vote with your feet and wallets and let others in the industry know you won't support something that benefits a company as unethical as CAP
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If that is truly the case then, and it may not be Alex per se but the company he works for that signed that contract deal, but if they did not write themselves an "out" or "exit" clause or waiver into it then they are not as bright as most peeps think they are.

I wrote contracts for the past 20 years for multi-million dollar amounts in the commercial construction industry and we never ever signed one that did not have an "out" or "exit" clause/waiver written into it. That being said, I would almost bet the farm that if Alex and IGB really wanted out of that contract then they would in fact relinquish it!
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PokerNations said:
I don't blame Alex here, likely the contract that was signed makes it difficult to extract their company from working with CAP on these events.
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Agreed. Plus Alex is an employee of the company anyway so ultimately that wouldn't have been his decision. I'll be supporting both Alex and Marc and will be at both.

If we avoided doing things because a company whose morals we didn't agree with benefitted down the line, we wouldn't do anything. Wouldn't put my money in a bank, wouldn't fly anywhere, probably wouldn't even have a computer.
 
Simmo! said:
Agreed. Plus Alex is an employee of the company anyway so ultimately that wouldn't have been his decision. I'll be supporting both Alex and Marc and will be at both.

If we avoided doing things because a company whose morals we didn't agree with benefitted down the line, we wouldn't do anything. Wouldn't put my money in a bank, wouldn't fly anywhere, probably wouldn't even have a computer.
Click to expand...

And that is ultimately why CAP will flourish again one day in the near future...;)
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Simmo! said:
I take it you don't use banks then Rob ;)
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I do, although I hate to admit it...:D But actually no more than I have to as a life necessity, whereas helping to line the pockets of CAP by attending their events is not a life necessity.

But I still respect your choice to attend, don't understand it though...but I respect your decision.
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You could always keep the cash under your bed. If you do, can you ping me your address...I'd like to pop in for a coffee :D

My point is not really just banks, but in everyday life we use and do all sorts of things that have links to companies whose ethics we won't agree with, but we will choose to ignore them because it's more convenient or we don't really care. Cosmetic products + companies that use animal testing? Companies who pollute the atmosphere? Just a couple of many non "life necessity" examples. I bet everyone here and at GPWA has at least one company whose ethics they disagree with but that they support in some way, shape or form when there are alternative options.
 
Actually, just for shits and giggles, here's an alternative viewpoint:

CAP primarily derive revenue from the affiliate programs advertising. The affiliate programs survive off players generated by affiliates. The more affiliates that attend the conferences, the more deals will be done. The more deals that are done, the more money affiliate programs make. The more money affiliate programs make, the less they need to advertise. The less they need to advertise... ;)
 

Rob, I actually just went and read the whole thread..well, most of it anyway. Maybe you can tell me if I have this right?

Last year, MCorfman/GPWA go out of their way to "dig up the dirt" on CAP, and end up knocking them down a few notches over the whole Cardspike issue (and Absolute Slots as well?). The main concern in all of it was LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, right? So GPWA ends up benefitting from CAP's losses...long and short of it. Many programs left CAP and I would assume that GPWA's business picked up as a result?

Now...fast forward to this year and an upcoming affiliate conference. Mojo posts, wanting to know what financial/business relationship there is between CAP and the sponsors of the next affy conference, because she doesn't want to support in any way, shape or form, the owners of CAP. Reasonable request, in the interests of TRANSPARENCY. The thread goes along, and we end up with JTodd (Integrity) posting what I assume was supposed to be hush hush confidential info regarding CAP and their current affiliations. M Corfman even goes so far as to remove the thread, edit out this highly confidential info, and slap JTodd with a temporary posting ban. Am I following this so far Rob? :D

Then...wait for it...along comes Alex, who...LO AND BEHOLD, confirms that CAP does indeed profit financially from these conferences re: the contracts and business arrangements in place. So, one is left to assume that this is the highly confidential info that JTodd had posted, and which obviously M Corfman and GPWA/Casino City employees were privy to all along...but which affiliates who may attend one of these conventions, were not allowed to know about.

To sum it up...the same M Corfman that sought to bring down CAP a year ago, now goes out of his way to protect the very same CAP..with the very same Warren Jolly at the helm? Even to the extent of suspending one of his own employees from posting. Hypocrisy sure does make strange bedfellows doesn't it? BTW, I'm not calling Michael Corfman personally a hypocrite. It's this whole industry...it's BUILT on hypocrisy...it's the foundation.

Can you tell me if I've come close Rob? I haven't been following this saga for the last year..so this past half hour was a crash course on the latest goings on of GPWA/Casino City/CAP...and all the highly ethical people involved with all of them.
 
Simmo! said:
I take it you don't use banks then Rob ;)
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BTW, I don't use banks Simmo...strictly on principle. Most of my financial dealings are in cash...and I intend to keep it that way. I don't need banks and/or CC companies knowing my business, or what I spend my money on. I even pay my rent in cash. And my only CC is a prepaid one..when I wanna buy something (online), I go and load the money on that I need just for that purchase.

I do get your point about having to (in some cases), deal with companies whose ethics leave something to be desired. Perfect example..phone and internet companies. Honestly, if I didn't have a small child, I wouldn't even have a phone, period. I don't have a cellphone, and refuse to ever get one. But I do HAVE to have a landline, no way around it. I'd also prefer to never have to deal with some of the large chain grocery stores...but we have to eat. Those are what I consider necessities. However, attending an affiliate conference that benefits ethically challenged people like Warren Jolly (or a multitude of others), is not a necessity. Not IMO anyway. Just my thoughts.
 
Wow! What an dramatic meltdown (at GPWA) - affiliates at their best going for the jugular :rolleyes:

I'm not equating the LAC conference as a CAP conference. As far as I'm concerned, even though there may be a CAP finger or two in the pie, that's not a justification for an all out boycott of the event.

The reason I am going is for my
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which I feel supersedes any affiliate conflicts/dilemmas/bitch-and-moaning/rogueness etc. since it deals primarily with the players and what they want.

That's important, isn't it? :rolleyes:

All this posturing and banner waving is secondary to player needs IMO. I think a lot of people are forgetting that. It's because of the player that affiliates are able to run a business, and this is the first time EVER that players have been invited to share what's on their minds.

I'll be there - Max will be there along with Vinylweatherman, Slotster and thelawnet. It's amazing how affiliate politics overshadow this.
 
Pinababy69 said:
But I do HAVE to have a landline, no way around it.
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Good God woman! What's wrong with two cups tied to the end of a long bit of string?! :p

Pinababy69 said:
It's this whole industry...it's BUILT on hypocrisy...it's the foundation.
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It's not just this industry. It's pretty much every industry that involves money changing hands. You think this industry's bad, go work in the music industry for a bit! Makes this one look like a prayer meeting in Heaven.

Wherever there is money, there will be hypocrisy and that's just human nature Pina. Can't be stopped...ain't unique...just the way it always has been and always will be.

Doesn't mean you can't change a few people along the way though. Just I think some people (not aimed at you) probably think it should change a few more than it ever will.

If I want to go to a conference and meet up with friends I will. Besides, I wanna hear what's in Slotster's mind :)

Bryan makes a good point: an affiliate chooses not to go so they don't be seen to be supporting CAP. They potentially miss out on hearing a talk on something which will make them a better affiliate that gives the player a better experience. Which is better? To me, it seems obvious.
 
Simmo! said:
... an affiliate chooses not to go so they don't be seen to be supporting CAP. They potentially miss out on hearing a talk on something which will make them a better affiliate that gives the player a better experience. Which is better? To me, it seems obvious.
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And to clear up any possible misunderstandings, the panel discussion was my idea - no one approached me to see if I'd do it.
 


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