Manhattan Slots - $104 Withdrawal fee to Neteller

[palapaisti]

I made $80 Neteller deposit to Manhattan Slots and got $28 Play Bonus. I managed to get my balance up to $1200 after fulfilling wagering requirements. They state in their website to process withdrawals by the next working day. However, it took 8 days and several emails them to process it. I can't find anywhere from their website that they have withdrawal fees. But they had taken $104 withdrawal fee. Their email support completely ignores my emails, I got the information of the withdrawal fee from their CM representative.

 

[just play]

But they had taken $104 withdrawal fee

I hope someone will come around and tell you why they took out so much.

I could see $30 or something, BUT $104????

 

[vinylweatherman]

If it is not stated clearly in the T & C, and you completed WR, you should PAB. The ONLY time casinos normally do this is when money is "churned", rather than played, but this incident does not seem to indicate this because you played the $80 to fulfil the WR on the bonus.

We have to ask what happened BEFORE this.

Were you "churning" money because of the Neteller XFAN & up to 2% cashback promo running between 1st June and 11th July?

 

[palapaisti]

If it is not stated clearly in the T & C, and you completed WR, you should PAB. The ONLY time casinos normally do this is when money is "churned", rather than played, but this incident does not seem to indicate this because you played the $80 to fulfil the WR on the bonus.

We have to ask what happened BEFORE this.

Were you "churning" money because of the Neteller XFAN & up to 2% cashback promo running between 1st June and 11th July?

It has nothing to do with the cashback promo, but before the win I had lost in the same day $2k to them. I understand that it costs them to take deposits, but I don't feel it's acceptable to take all the costs from winnings - still $800 loss for me even though I managed to get some of my money back

 

[ergopro]

Due to the high charges we incur for these payments, any subsequent withdrawals within the 28 days will be charged at 2% to contribute towards our processing costs. This percentage will be deducted from the requested withdrawal amount prior to processing and so the remaining amount will also be subject to the fees from the intermediary banks.

Lucky Red used to have that fee policy.
Not sure about Manhattan Slots.

Have you made another withdrawal from your player account in the past 28 days?

Was just thinking if you have, 80$ bonus + 2% of 1200$ would equal 104$. (80$+24)
Not that it's right. It should be 28$ sticky bonus + 2% fee 24$ which would be 52$ deduction.
Just wondering if they made a mistake at the cashier and deducted a wrong bonus amount (100% bonus instead of 35% bonus) from your withdrawal.

(I'm sure you are aware of this but if you withdrew to webwallets, are they in same currency as your player account? Neteller charges 2,5% and Moneybookers 1,99% currency exchange fees)

 

[palapaisti]

Lucky Red used to have that fee policy.
Not sure about Manhattan Slots.

Have you made another withdrawal from your player account in the past 28 days?

Was just thinking if you have, 80$ bonus + 2% of 1200$ would equal 104$. (80$+24)
Not that it's right. It should be 28$ sticky bonus + 2% fee 24$ which would be 52$ deduction.
Just wondering if they made a mistake at the cashier and deducted a wrong bonus amount (100% bonus instead of 35% bonus) from your withdrawal.

(I'm sure you are aware of this but if you withdrew to webwallets, are they in same currency as your player account? Neteller charges 2,5% and Moneybookers 1,99% currency exchange fees)

Yes, I have made two withdrawals within 28 days. My total deposits to Manhattan Slots are $2360 and I have cashed out $1625. I would not complain if they had taken 2%, but now they have deducted nearly 10%. My casino account and Neteller account are in same currency. Their email support is ignoring all my emails, so I don't know what's the problem.

 

[winbig]

Why are they even taking out ewallet fees when there's plenty of other casinos to play at that don't?

I could understand it if you (or anyone else) made about 20 withdrawals a month for small amounts each time, but for 2? For a w/d that was over $1,000? Talk about petty. They want players to keep coming back, but if I were to play and win on my first deposit of the month and cash out, of course I wouldn't be back until the next month for fear that I'd win again and either have to pay to get my money, or wait a few weeks before I could w/d again.


ps: I agree with the $52 amount. That's what should be deducted - nothing more, nothing less, since the 2% ($1200 x 2% = $24) is in their terms, and then the additional $28 bonus.

 

[ergopro]

Try emailing cashier_at_clubworldcasinos.com

I'd like to believe they've just deducted a wrong sticky bonus amount.
As said 104$ would equal a 80$ bonus and that withdrawal fee 24$.
(And your deposit was 80$ so it could just be an honest mistake)

I'm sure their cashier will reply within few hours.

 

[winbig]

Try emailing cashier_at_clubworldcasinos.com

I'd like to believe they've just deducted a wrong sticky bonus amount.
As said 104$ would equal a 80$ bonus and that withdrawal fee 24$.
(And your deposit was 80$ so it could just be an honest mistake)

I'm sure their cashier will reply within few hours.

The deposit was $80 and the bonus was $28. With 2% on the $1200 withdrawal, it comes out to $52 total.

They double dipped (52x2 = 104)...unless of course they consider deposits to be sticky bonuses as well....

 

[Simmo!]

You sure there wasn't a max-cashout T&C on the bonus that would limit the cashout winnings to the amount you recieved?

 

[winbig]

You sure there wasn't a max-cashout T&C on the bonus that would limit the cashout winnings to the amount you recieved?

Are you hittin the pipe again?

j/k....but seriously, The numbers add up too perfectly to just be a coincidence. And besides, no matter how you work the numbers, it's never going to match a set amount such as 10x D+B, 20x B or what have you

 

[Simmo!]

Are you hittin the pipe again?

j/k....but seriously, The numbers add up too perfectly to just be a coincidence. And besides, no matter how you work the numbers, it's never going to match a set amount such as 10x D+B, 20x B or what have you

Ah you say that, but $28 on a $80 deposit doesn't add up either. The OP may have deposited more than was necessary to collect the bonus and the final calculation was based on the qualifying part of the deposit and bonus only. Only speculating.

 

[winbig]

Ah you say that, but $28 on a $80 deposit doesn't add up either. The OP may have deposited more than was necessary to collect the bonus and the final calculation was based on the qualifying part of the deposit and bonus only. Only speculating.

Yes it does....$28 is 35% of $80...

 

[Simmo!]

Yes it does....$28 is 35% of $80...

Smartass

 

[winbig]

Smartass

Better than the alternative

 

[chuchu59]

On the right corner we have the blue muppet and on the left we have the blue pfffft monster.

 

[winbig]

On the right corner we have the blue muppet and on the left we have the blue pfffft monster.

[/derail]

 

[ergopro]

The deposit was $80 and the bonus was $28. With 2% on the $1200 withdrawal, it comes out to $52 total.

They double dipped (52x2 = 104)...unless of course they consider deposits to be sticky bonuses as well....

Yeah. Just meant that them (CWC cashier) making a simple error and deducting a sticky bonus amount that matches the deposit 80$ instead of the 35% bonus (28$), would also equal 104$ with the withdrawal fee of 24$. As they do give out a lot of 100% bonuses to frequent players.
But like you said, as would double-charging the fees (2 x 52$)

 

[palapaisti]

Got email answer from CWC Cashier:

Thank you for the email. Bonus money and transaction fee was removed from the balance, that’s why amount is slightly less than requested.

 

[winbig]

Got email answer from CWC Cashier:

Thank you for the email. Bonus money and transaction fee was removed from the balance, that’s why amount is slightly less than requested.

Then they took $52 too much. The bonus was $28 and the transaction fee of 2% was $24.

How do they explain that one? Keep us updated.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is NOT good news, and is unusual for the industry. They are NOT simply charging fees to deter "churning", but are now ROUTINELY charging fees for EVERY player who makes more than a single withdrawal per month. It's sheer GREED. You have ALREADY lost a fair bit to them, but they take even MORE when you manage to win some of your money back. Fees for loyal players (as opposed to those using the casino as a money transfer service), should be an operating overhead, and this is the industry norm. Very few casinos charge for ewallet withdrawals, and those that do often only charge a token amount, such as the Purple Lounge and Intercasino $1 fixed fee.

They are simply punishing players who play again within 28 days of winning (and withdrawing), so don't - play elsewhere for the rest of the month, and lose the money you won from Manhattan slots back to one of their competitors.

 

[ergopro]

So this 2% rule seems to apply to all Club World Casinos. (As they only have one Cashier cashier_at_clubworldcasinos.com)
Although Lucky Red is the only one that has the withdrawal fee policy listed on their website's Cashier section.
Club Euro, Aladdin's Gold, Manhattan Slots and All Star Slots didn't seem to have it but still Manhattan Slots have taken the 2% fee.
I wonder if CWC rep could give us a view on this one?

 

[palapaisti]

I asked them why the withdrawal fee is $104. I got the following answer:

"This is for all previous withdrawals too.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us,"

 

[winbig]

I asked them why the withdrawal fee is $104. I got the following answer:

"This is for all previous withdrawals too.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us,"

ROGUE.

'nuff said.

Now, on the other hand, if Bryan doesn't see this as a rogue practice, it certainly is not becoming of an accredited casino, imo.

 

[palapaisti]

Got some more information (last time I have played in Club World, Aladdins Gold or Lucky Red is about year ago):

"I can see that you have made withdrawn thousands of dollars on your other accounts too – in Club World, Aladdins Gold, Lucky Red so total fee was much higher than this."

 

[roygen]

I asked them why the withdrawal fee is $104. I got the following answer:

"This is for all previous withdrawals too.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us,"

Deposited there a few times- never managed to cash out, If I had known about this I would not have deposited- Will NEVER deposit again- That really sucks !!

 

[ergopro]

"This is for all previous withdrawals too."

That REALLY sucks. Just wondering how can they justify that.
Deducting the withdrawal fee for PREVIOUS withdrawals as well...retroactively.
After reading this, I'm really happy I've closed all my CWC accounts...

 

[clubworld]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

 

[ergopro]

You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

I think this hasn't been the case here?

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Any chance you might add that 2% withdrawal fee information to cashier section of all your casinos?

 

[all4greed]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

What exactly do the two bolded items have to do with each other? Are you saying that by someone profiting from playing is abusive? Or did you not bother to read your own terms?

Also, why should a customer contribute anything to your processing costs? All businesses have them, they just build it into their selling price. And since the casino has a house advantage, your processing costs should be more than covered.

 

[Lucky Loser]

Its profit tax. LOL.

How dare a player win.

 

[Tengil]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

You applied this retroperspectively to all his withdrawals, not just the last one.
And basically that term allows you to impose it anytime on any player when you see fit. What a sucky term, roguish IMO.

BTW palapaisti, wasnt it ClubWorld that changed your betsizes on table games to zero during wagering?

 

[roygen]

Hi Guys,


The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

So if the OP had lost all his deposits would the casino contribute a cash refund with no wagering requirement ? I think NOT - Not impressed,not impressed at all

 

[winbig]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

Friends contribute gas money to their friends. Players don't contribute money towards withdrawal costs to a casino.

How did the player abuse the system?

And unless I'm mistaken, the OP was surprised of this charge, so apparently CW broke their own T&C by not notifying the player in advance.

edit: I forgot to mention the fact that CW does pass on processing costs to the players, if they make more than 1 withdrawal in a month. That contradicts your statement saying there is no situation, other than rule 18, of CW's T&C, that you'll pass on processing fees to the player.

 

[palapaisti]

You applied this retroperspectively to all his withdrawals, not just the last one.
And basically that term allows you to impose it anytime on any player when you see fit. What a sucky term, roguish IMO.

BTW palapaisti, wasnt it ClubWorld that changed your betsizes on table games to zero during wagering?

I have played their bonuses and not broken any rules. Yes, I won couple of thousand dollars from them about 10 months ago. They did not inform me at all for the fee and it was really diffucult to find out what's the problem because their email support was ignoring my emails. Reputable casinos do not take that kind of fees, that's why I posted a complaint here even though it's not worth my time fighting for $104.

The casino that changed my betsizes for all table games to zero was AllStar Slots (CWC owned casino). They just disconnected me from casino while I was trying to fulfill wagering requirements for sign-up bonus. I was still able to play Video Poker so I was too lazy to make a complaint.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

So what! He was lucky, and on top of that, disciplined.

Term 18 is used in cases identified as "abuse". Surely, merely being in profit is NOT "abuse", it is what happens normally in the casino environment.

Once it was seen that his play was becoming "abusive", WHY was he allowed to continue redeeming bonuses, rather than having them blocked until he "demonstrated willingless to risk his own funds". This would have quickly got rid of him if he was really "abusing" the system in any way.

Instead of this, you let him carry on playing, and redeeming coupons, BUT someone sat watching his play, and dicked him around (allegedly). He reports being disconnected, and then finding his betting limits reset to zero when he got back.

DID THIS HAPPEN?
This is a VERY VERY important issue, because there have been many denials from RTG operators that they ever do this, and this accusation has been levelled at the Virtual casino brands, and even CONFIRMED as having been done by an ex employee (phinqster), who said some accounts were watched, and winning players were disconnected deliberately, and their accounts "dicked around with" to break their stride, and even lower the odds on some games.

I have played their bonuses and not broken any rules. Yes, I won couple of thousand dollars from them about 10 months ago. They did not inform me at all for the fee and it was really diffucult to find out what's the problem because their email support was ignoring my emails. Reputable casinos do not take that kind of fees, that's why I posted a complaint here even though it's not worth my time fighting for $104.

The casino that changed my betsizes for all table games to zero was AllStar Slots (CWC owned casino). They just disconnected me from casino while I was trying to fulfill wagering requirements for sign-up bonus. I was still able to play Video Poker so I was too lazy to make a complaint.

Clearly a bonus player, BUT you knew this TEN MONTHS AGO. Why then, didn't he receive a warning or bonus ban at that point. It took until this final withdrawal before you decided to apply charges RETROSPECTIVELY for nothing more "abusive" than playing with bonuses he was eligible for, and winning a couple of thousand from them.

$104 may not be much for someone in profit by $2000+, but the problem is the WAY IT WAS DONE, underhand, and without prior warning that this depositing and playing behaviour was not acceptable, and that a continuation of said behaviour would lead to charges being levied. It's no more than a variant of "bait & switch".

I know from experience that you can easily switch off promotions for accounts deemed too profitable for players, and replace them with a low percentage generic coupon in the hope they are undisciplined enough to feed their profits back.

With many more casinos than before, the introduction of a "1 welcome bonus over the entire group" policy would plug the gap where players ONLY take the welcome bonus, and then move on to a sister casino to repeat the process. The OP certainly seems to have included this as part of his overall "abusive" playing strategy, BUT there is nothing against this in the rules, and all he did was to be lucky enough to make a profit despite the odds being against him.

 

[winbig]

Anyone that can clear 20-30x+ WR needs a pat on the back along with their withdrawal...lol

 

[Pinababy69]

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

Tom, I like you and I don't think you run a bad operation....but the way you have worded that above quote, is mind blowing to me. Contributing to processing costs? You're kidding right? I'm really hoping that it just didn't come across how you really meant to say it maybe?

Fact is....Club World has done this a couple of times before...that we know of that is. There are probably other players who have had these fees applied to their accounts, but just accepted it, or who never posted on this forum, or any other.

Links for reference below. The first case saw fees of $1311 being imposed, and I think the player was up at the casino overall. After using the PAB service, the fees were returned to the player, and rightly so.

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/clubworldcasino-processing-cost-1311.36244/

In the second case (first chronologically), the poster had $1,400 in fees deducted retroactively (from a withdrawal), for all previous deposits he had made..even though he claimed he was down about 8K overall at the casino. It is worth noting that the OP never filed a PAB, so we only have his side of the story. He also made a very valid point in his original post...what if his withdrawal had only been $1,300....would they have confiscated the whole thing under the guise of processing fees?

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forum...ulating-large-fees-for-your-withdrawal.34475/

Point of this is that, CWC are in the habit of doing this and continue to do it even after having to return the fees to a player who was smart enough to PAB.

Tom, why are you still doing this? IMO, it is rogue behaviour to charge people retroactively for deposits and/or withdrawals.

In re: the other thread and bonuses....personally, I have no problem with the casino not offering the poster bonuses. He played the first one and cashed out. As long as that was honoured, and his cashout paid..it's up to you what you do from there.

But this is entirely different, and quite frankly I'm surprised to see yet another thread popping up concerning the exact same thing. If you feel the need to charge a processing fee, then you had better be upfront about it, and inform the player ahead of time. Taking fees for deposits and withdrawals already processed and/or paid out, is not becoming of an accredited casino. Sorry.

 

[brianzz]

Contributing? Maybe you mean donating. Is CWC not making enough off the 94% slots? Sheesh. If I could find a business where people made an effort to seek me out and give me money for a chance to win something, that's 100% negative expectation to being with. I'd gladly pay all the fees associated with doing that business.. hello cost of business.

This is a great example of greed, pure and simple. You win, we'll pay but you'll pay too

The shit these online casinos get away with astounds me, if a B&M casino tried to pull some of these stunts people would be running out the door in droves. And this was just 3 examples of this happening.. how many more hundred have they kept from people that never said anything?

 

[Nate]

Its profit tax. LOL.

How dare a player win.

Lmao... ...

Some of these threads just get sicker by the moment... Come On!!!! Players need to jump through Fire Rings and face all sorts of crap just for taking a bonus the casino offered and withdrawing...

"contributing to Processing costs" OMG... LOL

 

[Mousey]

CW used to be one of only 2 RTGs installed.

Someone please tell me the names of all the CWC casinos so I can be sure I've uninstalled them all, please!

Edited to add:

Note to all casinos! You don't OFFER and ALLOW players to redeem bonuses, and then penalize us for doing so, and especially penalize us if we happen to win, and expect us to sit fat, dumb and happy and keep forking over money without so much as a whimper. You don't like a player? Then, up front, email them, tell them you're closing their account (after all transactions are cleared). You don't like a particular player playing with bonuses, fine, alert the player of this, then disable all bonuses. It isn't that darn complicated!

*wandering off muttering* "contributing to processing costs" my eye....

 

[Jasminebed]

I've never cashed out, so I guess I made my contribution to your processing costs already.

I can understand limiting free withdrawals to one per week to keep your costs down, or additional fees for things like Western Union, but to apply it retroactively to all transactions is downright shady.

 

[jod5413]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

And this is why I like Inetbet, even if they do not have live chat.

 

[spearmaster]

Just curious - exactly what game(s) did you play?

 

[chuchu59]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

Maybe you ought to go thru your winners' database and send them an email informing them that if they dare come back you will slap them with processing fees for all withdrawals dating back several light years.

 

[Bencuri]

For some reason I never felt like depositing too much at ClubWorld and its partners, after this incident I will surely aviod it. I would surely be angry to have a withdrawal fee on my chas-out without notification. I know about casinos that take withdrawal fee, but at least they inform players about it in the cashier during the cash out process, not only in a hidden line of the terms. But anyway, there are several other casinos that has much better bonuses than Club World, and they can process any amount of withdrawal freely in every month. Club has bonuses with not very favourable rules and game settings, and on top of this they also charge the fee. This is ridiculous...