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Mansion screwing me over

Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Location
New York
The story is, I deposited $1000 to their casino a few weeks ago and have been grinding away at Keno since then trying to clear their $1000 bonus. Then yesterday it said I couldn't play the casino games, so I contacted CS and they told me all USA customers were banned from the casino and sportsbook. I said that's fine but but that they needed to prorate the bonus which I've cleared half of so far since my losses are currently ~$300. They simply refused to do anything about it and basically told me I was out of luck.

Do I have a good case here or are they within their rights to screw me like this?
 
I know, I was really surprised as well. Here is a transcript of my initial live chat session.



Welcome to Chat.Mansion.Com, MANSION Sarah G will be right with you.MANSION

CzarChasm: Hi, I tried to log into Keno just now and it said I couldn't and had to contact customer support

MANSION Sarah G: Hello, may i have your nickname please

CzarChasm: its CzarChasm

MANSION Sarah G: Ok, one moment please

MANSION Sarah G: We regret that we have currently suspended access to MANSION Sportsbook and Casino for US-based Members for business reasons. Due to the new Us legislation change

CzarChasm: nooooooo, i was hpoing you guys would hold out on that

CzarChasm: weve got a problem though, ive squandered about $300 on your $1000 signup bonus so far

MANSION Sarah G: MANSION continues to closely monitor developments which may affect our services to Members globally. We are committed to minimising the affect of these changes on our US-based members both in the immediate and longer terms and ensuring our Members remain well informed. We sincerely hope to reinstate and enhance our product range available to US-based Members in the near future.

CzarChasm: it would be unfair to leave me high and dry on it

MANSION Sarah G: One moment

CzarChasm: maybe we can prorate it for how much ive cleared so far? im alomst halfway done

MANSION Sarah G: i will ask

MANSION Sarah G: As this is out of our hands our Casino Manager has stated that there is nothing we can do about it

CzarChasmno no no, you cant just rob me of $300 when technically ive already earned almost $500

MANSION Sarah G: The new legislation change is out of our hands

CzarChasm: Its out of my hands too

CzarChasm: im not asking to be able to play anymore, im just saying do the right thing about your signup bonus that ive spent days clearing half of

MANSION Sarah G: We are sorry for this but our Casino manager has said that no refunds will be given

CzarChasm: im not asking for a refund, im asking for the half bonus i cleared

CzarChasm: if you wont allow me to finish it, you need to make good on what ive completed, its only right

MANSION Sarah G: Well, no bonuses can be given

CzarChasm: that is bull

MANSION Sarah G: Please email your complaint and i can pass this on for you

CzarChasm: i thought you guys were reputable



Since then I've sent in a number of emails, but they always send back standard autoreply bullshit.
 
reply

thats absolutely scandalous on there part...but then again ONLINE gaming is totally nothing short of robbery..when will people realise that without any sort of regulation companies will go ahead and do what they want..in your case they prob realise your in the states what can u do??? nowt....i wish to god the uk government would do something similar to the US without going as far just really strong regulations cos online gaming at the moment IMHO is as crooked as an underground casino....i really hope you keep on at them dude and PM brian see if he can do anything...gluck dude.
 
fwiw, mansion requires 1x rollover once the bonus is earned/credited, so even if they did allow him to get the bonus, he couldn't play it through to convert to cash.

of course it's greasy that he only got part way through the wr and got banned, but i don't feel they're under any obligation in this case. the player knew well what might happen wrt the bill, and ought to have completed the bonus sooner or not attempted it.

i didn't follow closely, but when omni began refusing bonus for US, had anyone done a good portion of the wr on the first of the month, and then been allowed to finish out the wr and receive the bonus after they changed the t&c on the second? if not given up front, the bonus has to be earned, and if it's not earned, they don't have to give it or any part of it to you.

the player feels like this is an mg clearplay where bonus amounts are released into the cash balance in increments as wr is completed, but imo this is not the case with mansion it is more like omni or littlewoods play xxx to earn the full bonus. the 1x rollover after the bonus is credited lends to the idea that even once credited the bonus is still not cashable chips, so to think that playing 30% of the wr entitles you to a cheque for 30% of the bonus you cleared imo is not warranted in this case.
 
Luckily for me you're the only one who feels that way so far. CM himself told me he contacted this site's Mansion representative, so we're all just waiting for him to log in and reply now.

For what it's worth, I don't think comparing this bonus to Littlewoods' is totally fair. For starters, you don't see the Littlewoods bonus being earned, it just gets released when you meet the WR without you necessarily having any idea it's coming. The bonus on mansion appears quite visibly both when you deposit and any time you look the active page dedicated to it. While you play you can watch the WR clear dollar by dollar. They make it very apparent that you're working towards a bonus from the start. Given that fact, I don't see how it's relevant whether they give the money before or after the WR, I'm still working towards the same goal. Aside from that, we're not talking about wagering $500 to get $25 on low HA games like Pontoon or whatever the Cryptos did. We're talking about risking a $1000 deposit to wager $20,000 or more on crappy games. It doesn't even seem to be in the same league in that regard.
 
MANSIONs world leading peer-to-peer Sports Exchange and Poker platforms that allow you to bet against other MANSION Members on Poker and all of your favourite sports and major events remain unaffected by recent events.

For business reasons, we regret that we have currently suspended access to MANSION Casino and Sportsbook for US-based Members.

The recent changes will affect US Members who have been playing MANSION Casino Games and working towards their Casino bonus being paid out.

We request that all US players who have a Casino bonus contact Member Services and have their bonus entitlement exchanged into cash to use in MANSION Poker, where they can continue to earn MANSION Club Points, participate in daily qualification tournaments for major televised events, and take advantage of frequent guaranteed and add-on tournaments worth thousands of dollars each week.

Alternatively, our US Members can simply choose to withdraw the cash.

We are committed to minimising the affect of these changes on our US-based members both in the immediate and longer terms and ensuring our Members worldwide remain well informed of future developments as they unfold.

Contact Members Services via email or online at chat:
Email: [email protected]
Representatives are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Member Service Specialists are available to answer your enquiries in English.
Phone calls to MANSION may be recorded for customer protection and quality assurance.
 
Well I don't play much poker, so that's pretty much out of the question.

I hope I understood your post right, meaning I can convert what I've cleared so far to cash and withdraw it. I spoke to live chat just now and linked them to your post. They said they would refer it to their poker department (lord knows why) and get back to me in 24 hours. I will let you all know...
 
All this effort and absolutely nothing has been accomplished. Here's the very personal and not at all repetitive reply they finally sent me today.



Hello CzarChasm

Thank you for your email regarding your MANSION account.

We regret that we have currently suspended access to MANSION Sportsbook and Casino for US-based Members for business reasons.

MANSION’s world leading player-to-player Exchange and Poker platforms that allow you to bet against other MANSION Members on Poker and all of your favourite sports and major events remain unaffected by recent events

Should you have an outstanding bonus balance in the Casino this can be exchanged for cash for use in MANSION Poker or the MANSION player-to-player Exchange.

Please note, however, that if the wagering requirements have not been met and no bonus released to your account it is not possible to claim part of the bonus in Casino.

You may, however, continue to play the requirements of your bonus through MANSION Poker.



I don't even understand what they mean. First they say I CAN exchange my bonus balance to cash, then they say I CAN'T get the bonus if the WR hasn't been met. Needless to say, nothing in my actual account has been changed and as stated, I can't play poker. I am out of ideas and sick and tired of form replys. Please help me casinomeister! :mad:
 
I just spoke to live chat to try and figure out what they were saying.



MANSION Andy:
how can I help?

CzarChasm:
hi, im consufed about an email i got from you regarding my casino bonus

CzarChasm:
one paragraph states: Should you have an outstanding bonus balance in
the Casino this can be exchanged for cash for use in MANSION Poker or
the MANSION player-to-player Exchange.

CzarChasm:
and the next states: Please note, however, that if the wagering
requirements have not been met and no bonus released to your
account it is not possible to claim part of the bonus in Casino.

CzarChasm:
so which one is it?

CzarChasm:
wouldnt all outstanding bonus balances have unmet wagering
requirements? isnt that the only reason a bonus balance would be outstanding?

MANSION Andy:
The first paragraph refers to bonuses which have been earned by meeting
the wagering requirements. Once the bonus has been released to your
account it must be turned over once more before it can be withdrawn; if
this is the situation you are in then the bonus balance can be exchanged
for the full cash amount. However, if you have not met the wagering
requirements and your bonus has not been released to your account it is
not possible to claim any cash for a 'part' bonus

CzarChasm:
ohhh

CzarChasm:
so were back to square 1, alright, thank you



So it's the same old story... they refuse to make good on the half bonus I've earned. The casino rep here didn't even address my specific problem.
 
Last edited:
Luckily for me you're the only one who feels that way so far.

Maybe he was just the only one who posted it.

You didn't earn the bonus and Mansion seems to be giving you the chance to earn it playing poker. That sounds fair. Good for them.

Afterall, you were grinding it out playing safe small bets at keno. Poker offers pretty much the same sort of grind-it-out slowly type of game you seem to favor.
 
Except that I barely ever win at poker. I'd certainly lose more at it than I would playing Keno. If I thought I might have to clear this bonus with a billion hours of poker, I'd never have signed up for it. We can't all be card sharks.
 
The OP signed up to specific terms and conditions, the casino can't honour this, not due to the OPs fault, but due to a law change. I assume Mansion knew about the ports bill going, previous to it passing so knew there might be an issue with players bonuses and hence I believe the responsibilty lies more with them than the player.

If the player is unwilling to play poker he shouldn't be forced to to get his $700 worth of equity back playing it. There really shouldn't be any trouble at all for mansion to convert his bonus equity into cash and allow him to withdraw. What are they trying to prove by not granting this request?
 
Indeed sir. No contact from the rep here since his first reply in this thread. I did get an email from Sarah McLean on the 3rd of November, essentially repeating what has already been said about this a million times. I can post it here if you'd like, but it's really nothing new. Still no progress on this front =/
 
This was forwarded to me:

 
Crap, Rubbish, BS, Jobsworth, etc.

What rubbish,
It is NOT illegal as yet for US players to gamble online, it is only illiegal for financial institutions to assist in making deposits, and the rules for enforcing this have not yet been finalised.

To say that top level management cannot be flexible when unexpected circumstances lead them to breach their side of a contract is total BS. When players breach their side, even if it is circumstances beyond their control, casino operators will often throw the proverbial book at them.
If the player has released half the bonus, he should receive half, as the casino did not give fair notice of the change, but closed accounts overnight - itself not necessary as there would be no danger of action had they allowed the rest of the month for US players to pull out of gaming gracefully.

What about other players that casinos currently accept. I don't expect the US to be the only country to bring in a ban, especially as the US situation has shown that it might actually work! We can be assured that if our own countries were to make a similar move (granted, unlikely here in the EU), we also would find ourselves out on a limb, and out of pocket too.

Since it seems OK for the player to continue to play poker, surely the released portion of bonus could be placed as cash in the poker account, and the player can immediately withdraw this, and play poker for the remaining half or simply call it a day.

I also have an account at Mansion, but it is dormant because of recent problems posted here on the forum, and I was waiting for signs that players were at least able to get something meaningful done about it. My main concern was the hoops that Mansion keep putting in place to make life harder than it should be for the player, such as this idea that they have to contact support to tell them that they want their funds "promoted" so that they can withdraw everything after wagering the bonus once, but if they miss this obscure step and just wager once the bonus, they lose the ability to ever withdraw it (I would have walked straight into that one myself had I made my second deposit).
 
So they're not going to change their position and I still have to play a game I suck at and didn't sign up for to finish off my WR and recoup my losses?

Is that acceptable to you CM? I had assumed it wasn't since you have been making an attempt to help me out. If it was I figured you'd have told me to suck it up a while ago.

Either way thanks for your ongoing assistance. I truly appreciate it.
 
So they're not going to change their position and I still have to play a game I suck at and didn't sign up for to finish off my WR and recoup my losses?

Is that acceptable to you CM? I had assumed it wasn't since you have been making an attempt to help me out. If it was I figured you'd have told me to suck it up a while ago.

Either way thanks for your ongoing assistance. I truly appreciate it.

The way I understood Bryan's last post is that they're going to give you $480 of the bonus to your casino account; which you can cashout immediately.

They're going to stick the other $520 into the poker account, so basically you're playing with free money...if you clear it, great. If not, no loss. I think this is a great move on their part, as they're allowing you to try and clear the rest of the bonus, even though it'd be by playing poker.

I'm sure other places would give you the prorated bonus, and leave it at that. This way you're basically on a freeroll with the rest of the bonus.

If you're only down $300, you're actually coming out ahead by $180 with this offer...I'd jump on it, seeing as how you were only asking for half of it ($500) to begin with.
 
I didn't read it that way. I read it as that if he plays through the $520, Mr. Knipe will release the other $480 immediately upon completion.

In my opinion, this sucks. If the circumstances were beyond their control, they were also beyond the player's control - and thus what was completed up to that time should have been released by the casino and the remaining bit forfeited - that is the only fair solution.
 
Winbig, I am pretty sure Spearmaster's interpretation is the correct one. Especially since they said they are not changing their stance.

They sure do like to word these things in confusing ways though.
 
For a Casinomeister "Accredited" casino, I'm a bit perplexed as to why they aren't entering into a dialogue about this. This is very, very disappointing and they have been removed from the accredited list.

Agreement on this or not, there should be a dialogue going on here. Apparently, there is none. I've been told that the "Casino team will respond to queries on an individual basis". Well, this response is unsatisfactory. The Casino rep has bailed from the forum, and I have to pull teeth to get answers.

Unacceptable.
 
Nice! Maybe that will get them to think twice about this situation.

So tell me what you think. At this point, should I give up, withdraw and take the $300 loss? Or should I keep my money in there for a while longer and hope that they eventually come around? If there's any hope at all, I'm more than happy to leave my balance there intact for as long as it takes.
 
Well I definitely should have given up here when I suggested it. I had a bumpy ride playing short handed 4/8 and am currently at my low point, down $650 from where I began playing their horrid poker room and only 1/3rd of the way towards accumulating the points I need. I told you I suck at poker! They don't even offer Omaha, the game I am somewhat competent at.

Now they decided to lock me out of poker too. They had damn well better give me the $500 from my casino playthrough now... Email on the subject is pending.
 
Ok... the shit just hit the fan.

Hello Joe

Thank you for your email regarding your MANSION account.

The original agreement made was that as you had wagered enough in Casino to potentially earn 480 USD of your 1,000 USD bonus that the full amount would be released to you when you earned the remainder of your bonus 520 USD through Poker play as per our terms and conditions.

The terms of this bonus were clear when you registered your account in that you must meet the wagering requirements of the bonus before it is credited to your account. The terms and conditions clearly state that:

The wagering requirement as described above for any given deposit amount must be met in order for the bonus to be credited to your account.

Having reviewed your account I can see that you have released 167.27 USD of the 520 USD required through Poker. Unfortunately as you have not fully met your wagering requirements we are unable to release any further bonus funds.

The original email sent informing you of the fact that you are required to fully meet the wagering requirements before your bonus is released to your account was sent on the 3rd November 2006. This was in fact over three months before we made the decision to restrict wagering for our US members. Please understand that the decision to withdraw from the US market at this time has not been taken lightly but has been necessary due to recent changes in the industry.

Before this decision was made you did in fact have over three months to meet the full wagering requirements of your bonus. We have found that for most of our members this is ample time to meet the requirements of any bonus and have it released to their account.

You currently have a balance of 227.34 USD in your MANSION account which you will be able to withdraw using blah blah blah... etc etc etc...

Kindest regards,

Sarah McLean

Member Service Manager

MANSION Member Services


I am freaking furious right now! They persuaded me to play in their horrific poker room even thoguh I said I was bad at it. I made a genuine effort playing thousands of hands and losing over $600 and NOW THEY'RE PULLING THIS CRAP?! These liars and theives need to be blacklisted permanently.
 
ksot are you mad cuz you hedged on the steelers bet? or cuz you got burned trying to exploit their keno loophole on your bonus that you almost certainly only became eligible to earn when you deposited for said free sports bet?

i'll agree this most recent turn where they totally shut you down after you grudgingly accepted to play poker is lame, but you really never should have put yourself in this position to begin with. you chose to undertake playing a 1000 dollar bonus when the immediate future of online gaming for us citizens was uncertain. you certainly ought to have known that the bonus would not be released in increments of any sort, and that a certain amount of wagering was required both to release that bonus and after its release to turn it over into cashable chips. you let them twist your arm into playing poker and losing hundreds of dollars.

you were never prevented from withdrawing your own funds at any time, right? if not, it's your own fault everything that's happened. on the face of it, a 1000 bonus looks nice, but when there are hoops like keno or endless hands of poker to earn it, sometimes it's better to pass on it. it's twistedly pleasurable to watch you getting yanked around by them though, so keep the posts coming. in fact, i'm going to make up some popcorn and read this whole thread again. muahahaha
 
i had a huge diatribe again, but it was far too long to post. ksot has no claim to all or any part of the bonus funds (for a multitude of reasons), and it's his fault he hasn't yet earned it and indeed that he even chased it to begin with. mansion is within their rights to do everything they have done so far, and it was not like they closed down to american players for the purpose of denying bonus, it was just a collateral effect that they somewhat remedy by still allowing poker to be played.

this latest communication that the bonus offer is off the table ("expired", as the qualifying deposit was made ~1 week before the start of the football season), although brash and maybe a little rude considering the poor sod has conceded to play poker and has nearly lost it all anyway, is not terribly roguish. many places require a bonus to be turned over in seven to ninety days or what have you, and ksot has been dragging his feet and trying to have it his way since the football season started.

including playoffs, that's 20+ weeks, so like 5-6 months. if i had someone like him giving me a headache for half a year over goods/funds he had no entitlement to, i'd probably not let him the further opportunity to earn entitlement to them. player never fulfilled his requirement, was given plenty of opportunity to do so, and casino has no obligation to accept a revised deal because the player cannot or will not play.

and as to why i lampooned you in the other thread about OC patti, if you have been gambling for years, then you ought to have known that OC/WC/Crystal et al are not the type of operations you want to be a customer of for years. before i even knew what rtg was, i knew it was bad news.

just saying you and your boyfriend ought to know not to risk money at a shady place. and just off hand, is your boyfriend really short, long beard, wears a hat, and is on travelocity commercials?
 
And you're not a bonus chaser yourself? :

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/32vegas-be-cautious.14995/

The 32Vegas group isn't shady? C'mon.

If you've read this thread from the beginning, you'll see that the OP was FORCED to play poker to finish the WR. For you to actually say that "they were asking for it" by continuing to play online right before the UIGEA...well....I won't even go there.

</derail>

I won't even get into the last sentence of your post. Let's keep the thread on track instead of getting into a mudslinging contest.
 
mudslinging was to patti, she accused me of working for a casino.

and yes i've played 32v, but it's not near as disreputable as the epic of cloud, curran, crystal and friends. they've recently been called the biggest assholes in the history of online gambling. 32v just bonus-ban whores and give random sketchy bonuses, and their sister site gave me a chance before banning. and i don't remember them deliberately screwing players, fabricating reasons to lock/seize, or slow-paying. plus, their live chat is available in english now lmfao!

yes i go after bonuses, but i do follow their terms to the letter, and i don't try to breach the rules in any way. bonuses are offered to entice deposits and play. believe me if casinos didn't offer bonuses, i would not be playing right now. attractive, competitive bonuses will draw business.

would you deliberately shop at a grocery store that never offered sales/coupons? is it wrong to maximize your savings by stocking up on sale items? or to hit up different grocery stores to get the best deal on many items?

as for my comments on the US legislation bit, i just meant to undertake a particularly LARGE bonus that you know will take many hours to clear and won't be credited until after you've wagered it all. and player was not forced to play poker, as he had every right to cash out at any time. the notion of sunk costs dictates that money spent/lost should not bear on a future spending decision.

when US players were banned, and poker was offered as the only way to complete the bonus, no one held a gun/club/SARS to his head and demanded he continue to meet the wr. player's balance at that point was between 700-800 i believe at that time, and this is not insignificant. that is money you can do something with, and it makes little sense to keep throwing money into what is a losing/volatile proposition.

if you are going after littlewoods free 25 quid monthly, and you lose, say, 50 pounds and have only cleared 15% of the wr, it's not unreasonable to just quit for fear you will lose even more and since the 25 pounds won't even cover what you've already lost. or you enter a poker tournament with rebuys and you find yourself terribly outclassed no matter what table you're at, then when you bust it doesn't make sense to rebuy just because the field is smaller than when it started. or you begin working on a government project, and unforeseen anomalies cause your estimate to skyrocket or public support to decline. you will pack up and scrap the project.

or perhaps you send your country to war, and you start realising to complete your task will require hundreds of times what you expected. yes, gwb, you need to cut and run, staying the course is just throwing money at something that won't ever be fixed. trillions of dollars wasted, no definite end in sight, and no reason to continue being there (not to mention how further lives are being pointlessly spent as well - troops, civilians, even militants who just want the US out and would be productive citizens were they left alone). accept it as a loss, but quit dumping money into a negative expectation.
 
or perhaps you send your country to war, and you start realising to complete your task will require hundreds of times what you expected. yes, gwb, you need to cut and run, staying the course is just throwing money at something that won't ever be fixed. trillions of dollars wasted, no definite end in sight, and no reason to continue being there (not to mention how further lives are being pointlessly spent as well - troops, civilians, even militants who just want the US out and would be productive citizens were they left alone). accept it as a loss, but quit dumping money into a negative expectation.

*shakes head*

Can we leave the war out of it?
 
it's a great example of sunk costs, that's all. not sure how much oil is underneath iraq, but obviously enough to justify a five year war to the tune of 13 figures. instead of going to iraq, y'all could have ended world hunger and probably aids too

now go get in your suv and drive thru for a mcmuffin! lmfao had to!



p.s. it sucks in canada, we have gotten rid of one- and two-dollar bills, the minimum you can give a stripper is a fiver. well, if you hold a toonie in your teeth a dancer will retrieve it with her breasts. it would be funny if a stripper had a shirt on with an arrow what pointed to its low-cut collar and had on it "insert bills here" like a vending machine
 
ksot are you mad cuz you hedged on the steelers bet? or cuz you got burned trying to exploit their keno loophole on your bonus that you almost certainly only became eligible to earn when you deposited for said free sports bet?

I never partook in their NFL promotion. Aren't you the clever one?

you were never prevented from withdrawing your own funds at any time, right? if not, it's your own fault everything that's happened.

It's not my fault that they choose to shut USA customers out of their casino or their poker room with out any notice. That was their decision and it screwed me over twice now. It's also not my fault that they refuse to prorate bonuses in these situations as SBR says is the standard move in this industry.

it's twistedly pleasurable to watch you getting yanked around by them though, so keep the posts coming. in fact, i'm going to make up some popcorn and read this whole thread again. muahahaha

OK? I hope you and everyone you love dies in a fire.

ksot has no claim to all or any part of the bonus funds.

Then why did Casinomeister remove them from his accredited list over this and why are many other affiliates contacting them on my behalf? Seems you're in the vast minority pal.

many places require a bonus to be turned over in seven to ninety days or what have you, and ksot has been dragging his feet and trying to have it his way since the football season started.

Many places do... Mansion doesn't, so what's your point? Oh right, you have none. I have not been dragging my feet, I'm just not good enough at poker to play at a high enough level to clear the bonus quickly. I was taking my bloody time because they said I had forever to earn the points I needed. Why would I rush when they explicitly told me I had forever? How could I know they'd lock us out of poker when there's nothing in the US legislation that forbids it and they specifically let us remain in their poker room while shutting us out of their sports book and casino?

yes i go after bonuses, but i do follow their terms to the letter, and i don't try to breach the rules in any way.

What rules did I try to breach you fumbling idiot?

player was not forced to play poker, as he had every right to cash out at any time

Yes... I'm sure you'd happily to walk away from $480 that you had already earned if there was still a way to free it up. Sounds perfectly logical to me.

if you are going after littlewoods free 25 quid monthly, and you lose, say, 50 pounds and have only cleared 15% of the wr, it's not unreasonable to just quit for fear you will lose even more and since the 25 pounds won't even cover what you've already lost.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. +EV is +EV regardless of how you're running.
 


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