Planetluck stole $8200 from me

[dubi123]

Cashin of $ has been denied due to the fact I played roulette while playing their signup bonus.

The fact the terms never mention you can not play roulette and the fact I have an email from them that I can play any game won't affect them at all and they don't pay.

Hello xxxxx,

Thank you for contacting PlanetLuck Casino Online Customer Care.

Our records indicate that after claiming the 100% sign up bonus, you
played at the Roulette table and had a win of $7200. This is against the
casino rules as Roulette is one of the inapplicable games towards the
bonus you have claimed. Further, we have forfeited the win amount from
your casino balance. Your casino balance currently is $200.

We suggest you to wager $1600 on the applicable games, meet the
wagering requirement and then play any other games or request for a cashout.
You must wager $1600 to meet the wagering requirement on all games
except Baccarat, Craps and Roulette.



That is not true and they know that, they lie and lie and lie and do not pay, I wagered the FULL AMOUNT required in Blackjack and roulette was played for my fun, the Roulette does not count towards wagering only.

Here is an email from them showing their real face:

Dear Player,

Thank you for contacting PlanetLuck Casino Online Customer Care.

You can play any games that you wish to however the wagering will be
counted only on the applicable games ( all games excluding Baccarat,
Craps and Roulette). You can play Roulette and then play blackJack to meet
the wagering requirement.

Note: Please do not disclose your password to any
individual/organization claiming to represent PlanetLuck.com. We will never ask you for the
password to your account. If you receive any email or phone call from
anyone requesting you for the same please report it to us immediately.

For questions or suggestions, contact our 24 x 7 Customer Care Team.

Chandini
PlanetLuck Customer Care
US and Canada: 011-800-PRTY-CSNO / 1-866-232-6004 [Toll Free]
Select European countries: 00-800-PRTY-CSNO [Toll Free]
International: +1-866-232-6004 / +44-207-537-8301 / +350-43001
__________________________________________________________
PlanetLuck.com, WBC Productions (Gibraltar) Ltd., iGlobalMedia Centre,
561 Imossi House #6-254, 1/5 Irish Town, Gibraltar



***********************************************************

--Original Message--
From: [email protected]
Date: 2005-10-29 16:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: question about signup bonus[#3929513]

Dear Sirs

I wish to open a new account at planetluck casino

I wish to use coupon 100. I understand roulette doesnt count thru the
wagering but may I play roulette and then play blackjacj since roulette
is my favorite game.

I mean may I play the restricted games NOT for the wagering and then
wager the whole amount required in allowed games

Regards


I used the Pitch a bitch about 8 weeks ago but still I have not received my money from them.

SHAME ON THEM !!!!

I recommend this casino NO and they should be under the Super Evil I think at this website

 

[amandajm]

Seems to me you asked the right questions and stuck by all the rules except 1 - the house always wins.

 

[caruso]

They have NO CASE - you did ask exactly the right question.

iGlobalMedia are AIM listed - or at least Party Poker is. If Bryan cannot help, threaten to take them to court in the UK - that should open their wallets sharp enough.

Nice roulette hit, BTW.

Keep on this and try not to vanish into the sunset, as many players seem to do after they post a complaint.

 

[silkprint]

That is a nice hit ! Worthless though if they refuse to pay up . Caruso is right . Some people walk away after they post a legitiment complaint .You have the emails to back you up . Take his advice.

 

[elscrabinda]

Please please please don't let them get away with this. You'd have a case without the email but with it then surely its absolutely cut and shut. I always tell people this but it really is more satisfying and effective to communicate by phone after the initial complaint. You've got your email as evidence but you really need to have a good chat with a manager if you haven't already.

On the facts as presented this is 100% out of order

 

[dubi123]

I spoke to the casino about 5 times, they seems to ignore me ,


When I call them they tell me at the end of the conversation to wait for an email which is never being sent.

I will sent them another threatening email although I am not sure partypoker and this group of aceclub planetluck and starluck are the same ? are they 100% the same ?

I still think that the industry can force them pay, I just need someone who promote them and read this story, maybe an affiliate, a webmaster.

They told me this decision has gone through the high management there and that is their final decision.

I will send them an email anyway.

 

[umberto]

If you are legal then you have one more evidence of their illegal action they took.

 

[Slotmachine]

Kind of sounds like they've flagged you for bonus "abuse". Let me guess, deposited 100, got 100 bonus, made one 200 straight up bet on roulette, bang won 7200, then proceeded to meet the WR on a the low-variance game of blackjack?

The casino obviously noticed this as it's a classic bonus tactic, and refused to pay. However, they screwed up because they sent you that e-mail specifically allowing you to play roulette, and furthermore they did not claim "bonus abuse" but stupidly claimed roulette all of a sudden was a prohibited game.

IMO, you played by the rules, and they should absolutely shut up and pay up, provided you didn't actually violate any T&C's. But I doubt they'll pay..

If the casino can't deal with their own T&C's, they'll need to change them.

EDIT: Good one, Umberto...that should hurt a bit..

Cheers,
SM

 

[dubi123]

Yep, that what I did, bet it all reached 7200 and then play blackjack

I came to win, they should pay. This is very easy when it comes to a skilled player, the casino give the players take.

They should pay.

 

[oblomov]

Awesome post Umberto!:notworthy

 

[umberto]

In many cases, things are easier than they appear. Kevin Mitnick, in Art of Deception, called it "Social Engineering". We now have the facts and the proof. The major question is : will they pay this palyer?

If they don't, they are rogue for me.

 

[suzecat]

Dubi123: Nice win!

Has Planetluck ever mentioned anything about you being from Israel? Israeli players seem to be on the chopping block (so to speak) with casinos. From their promotions page (for a 100% deposit bonus):

The Casino reserves the right to exclude individual players from promotions or hold cashouts if we suspect abuse or fraudulent or suspicious play.

The wagering restriction for this bonus is 12 times (Demark, China, Poland and Israeli players 36 times) the initial deposit and the bonus amount.

I suspect they are scratching their heads and trying to find some way to decline your cashout based on your being from Israel. If they cannot find anything dodgy with your play, they have the "all management decisions are final and binding" to fall back on.

Irrespective of your home country, I would escalate this to the next level and not be content with accepting their decision to withhold your win.

 

[caruso]

The Casino reserves the right to exclude individual players from promotions or hold cashouts if we suspect abuse or fraudulent or suspicious play.

All this is is a reservation of rights to do anything they choose: pay you, rob you, whatever. "Suspicious play", get out of there; taking the piss or what.

Also, this is nothing about being from Israel. The casino plainly stated the reason was roulette; the player was plainly told he was OK to play roulette.

Planetluck have no way out on this one.

 

[Pinababy69]

Do they have a rep here at CM?

I didn't see a rep for Planetluck, but I did see one for Starluck. Here's the link:

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/members/

 

[jetset]

I spoke to the casino about 5 times, they seems to ignore me ,


When I call them they tell me at the end of the conversation to wait for an email which is never being sent.

I will sent them another threatening email although I am not sure partypoker and this group of aceclub planetluck and starluck are the same ? are they 100% the same ?
I still think that the industry can force them pay, I just need someone who promote them and read this story, maybe an affiliate, a webmaster.

They told me this decision has gone through the high management there and that is their final decision.

I will send them an email anyway.

Yes, they are all part of one group, along with Party Poker. The group is one of the major commercial entities listed on the London stock exchange and it is called Party Gaming.

These guys are very publicity conscious, especially now they are pushing the "one stop gambling shop" mega-site concept.

I would try at group level as well - try this guy who is their principal media spokesman:

Director Communications
John Shepherd
+44 (0)207 337 0100
[email protected]

 

[dubi123]

Thank you Jetset, i emailed John Shepherd

I emailed him and I hope he will be helpful

I will update you if he reply.

I made the required wagering for Israel which is more than other countries.

I am checking also with lawer about taking them to court in England.

 

[the hunt]

still waiting...

did you ever get a reply or get it sorted?

 

[paul02085]

keep us updated. Would be big if Party is truly robbing players.

 

[dubi123]

I got this response today from Planetluck. How stupid do they think I am ???

i replied that I am going to organize my case with my lawer and take them to court and I urged them to pay now before it is too late.

Also I will try to find other players from forum that was not paid in the past and try to organize a collective case.

I have the money to spend on this issue and I have the time, these guys are going to eat a lot of shit from me if they will not pay .


Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:33:26 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected] Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: PlanetLuck [#4520137]

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for contacting PlanetLuck Casino Online Customer Care.

This E-mail is with regard to mails that you have written about
wagering requirements in Blackjack. We apologize for the inconvenience that
was caused and have added a $200 compensatory bonus to your account with
no wagering requirements.

Sincerely,

Damian Martin
PlanetLuck Customer Care
US and Canada: 011-800-PRTY-CSNO / 1-866-232-6004 [Toll Free]
Select European countries: 00-800-PRTY-CSNO [Toll Free]
International: +1-866-232-6004 / +44-207-537-8301 / +350-43001

 

[phynqster]

Dubi,
Great win, and good thing you kept all of the corespondence. I have one question though. Did you use a credit card for deposit or did you use an e-wallet? I know when I ran a casino, I banned players from Israel because we would have a number of players come in and deposit by credit card and all made large wagers on roulette. The ones who lost, charged back, the ones who won demanded imeadeate payment. Thats why I asked about the credit card deposit.

 

[aodat2]

Dubi,
Great win, and good thing you kept all of the corespondence. I have one question though. Did you use a credit card for deposit or did you use an e-wallet? I know when I ran a casino, I banned players from Israel because we would have a number of players come in and deposit by credit card and all made large wagers on roulette. The ones who lost, charged back, the ones who won demanded imeadeate payment. Thats why I asked about the credit card deposit.

I'm not entirely understanding what difference does it make by using a Credit Card or an e-Wallet, phynqster.

Dubi made only a $100 deposit. Got their 100% bonus. Played roulette and won some, then went over to flat bet BJ to fulfill their WR (like a normal Bonus Abuser would) and he even admits that he's somewhat a bonus abuser. But the fact is that they denied him payment because he played Roulette before fulfilling the WR.

This to me is a very clear cut case that the Casino is actually trying to stiff him and till now, they are actually doing a very good job at it. As a listed company in the London Stock Exchange, is this the way to conduct themselves?

Also, since you've run a casino before, could you give us all some advice as what to do if we do encounter such problems in the future? How do we go tackling this problem and etc?

 

[jetset]

Dubi, a word to the wise. I understand that you feel cheated and angry, and believe me I can sympathise with that. However, when you communicate with corporate execs at groups like Party Gaming, keep your cool.

Be hard and factual by all means, and let them know that you intend to push this matter as far as is necessary, but keep a level of control and a businesslike courtesy. A lawyer's letter works even better in illustrating your absolute determination, and tell them you will hold them responsible for your legal costs at the end of the case.

Listed companies are particularly sensitive to issues that may generate adverse publicity, especially in strong, genuine cases such as this one.

 

[caruso]

I cannot believe iGlobalmedia will not be officially rogued at Casinomeister for this behaviour. This case is as open and shut as they come.

Bryan, what is the status your end? Did you get onto them, and if you did, did they get back to you?

Dubi, don't go pissing away fistfuls of cash on the legal eagles until you absolutely have to. Tell Party Gaming you WILL be suing them if they don't pay you, but hold back on involving lawyers until there remains no other option.

 

[mitch]

Dubi,
Did you use a credit card for deposit or did you use an e-wallet? I know when I ran a casino, I banned players from Israel because we would have a number of players come in and deposit by credit card and all made large wagers on roulette. The ones who lost, charged back, the ones who won demanded imeadeate payment. Thats why I asked about the credit card deposit.

I think this is a reasonable question for Dubi to answer and also to confirm that he has never made a cashback after losing such a bet.

Lets be honest how many ordinary players are going to make such a play?

These type of bets are not being made for the fun of gambling they are designed purely and simply to take advantage of bonuses especially sticky ones.

Play like this is going to set a red flag at any casino and get you labelled as an advantage player because they are the only players who will make such a bet.

Also as advantage players are only interested in turning a profit how could such a player be reasonably certain he was going to make a profit, without cashback, given the huge variance on this type of bet? Such a player would know he could hit 100 casinos consecutively and lose every bet, hard to imagine very many people of ordinary means risking such big sums. If the player was rich he wouldn't bother.

Of course if a group of people got together and pooled resources and all agreed to play the same way and to share winnings amongst the group then the variance problem almost certainly disappears and casinos are facing a huge bonus bill.
Perhaps Dubi would also like to confirm whether he is a member of such a group.

If casinos detect such activity do people think they should still pay?

Do people on the forum approve of such behaviour, given the impact it has on casinos changing T&Cs and the general restrictions it places on the average player?


If players do approve perhaps Bryan can arrange to set up a 'Meisters' player group and we can all coin it in. (joke Bryan!)

Mitch

 

[JohnGalt]

Mitch, there's no evidence or even suggestion that any of that is what went on. Also, note that the wizard of odds recommends betting exactly this way with a sticky bonus.

 

[mitch]

John

I usually make an all in bet with a sticky bonus but not on a single number on roulette. (I consider this a sensible and reasonable play and casinos seem to think so to as I have always been paid without question.)

I agree this is advantage play but not of the gross kind of the roulette bet.

The huge variance on such a bet would mean there could be no guaranteed profit ( you have to factor in the odds of a casino refusing to pay on those few occasions when the bet hit) in anything like a reasonable time scale unless I was part of a group or I didn't really intend honouring my part of the bet.

It does not surprise me that some casinos consider such gross and obvious advantage play as crossing the line into bonus abuse.

Dubi claimed in his first post that he played Roulette initially for his own fun. ( one bet all in then switched to blackjack, yeah right!)

Anybody believe that statement for starters?

Mitch

 

[dubi123]

Thank you Jetset for the advice, I really took it too seriously but that's me, I lose my sense of Humour when it comes to cheating.

I used NETeller and never charged back. I will never charge back even if the caisno has not return the deposit(by the way they never return the deposit because they want me to play again the signup bonus with 200 in the account , now they put another 200 as a "compensation")

I never charge back, they do not worth my time lying for them.

Any chargeback concern lying even if they have not paid you with no reason , because you tell the Credit company you never dealt with them and this fact is a lie.

Anyway no chargeback is involved not here not in the past. I always deposit by NETeller.

 

[vedat]

there is something like this at playersclub casino

hello i saw there is something like this at www.playersclubcasino.com
at winners section they put that girl into winners storys and i am sure they payed her you can see me there at winner section ))
"
Bet it all
November 3, 2005

'tt' (USA) deposited $100 and received a $100 match bonus. Not often players put it all on the table in the very first bet, but with $100 each, the 5 and the 10 must be her lucky numbers. Only a single spin of the roulette ball was needed (10) to convert the accountsum to $3600.

Congratulations,
Player's Club Casino team"

 

[GOCC]

These terms of Advantage players always brings a rye smile to my face.

Lets say for example the are 2 shops in a precinct. They are both selling exactly the same plasma TV. This plasma TV is the dogs whatsit.

Shop A, selling it for £2999
Shop B, has a sale on and its £2499

I buy the TV from shop B.

Does that make me an advantage shopper never to be allowed into Shop A AGAIN

At the end of the day, we have £x for betting. If I can get X +20% from someone, I will.

If the casinos dont like advantage players and just want mugs, well they are in the wrong business. They need to factor in advantage players into their WR.

 

[umberto]

Dubi any news from your case???

 

[dubi123]

This issue is about to be resolved.

They return the money to the casino account I will let you know once they paid

Dear xxxx,

We have not attempted to steal any amounts from you.

However, to take account of your comments we have amended our terms and
conditions to make it absolutely clear that any bonus amount and the
initial deposit can not be used on certain games until the wagering
restrictions are met (this was always our intention). We accept that the
previous terms may not have been totally clear on this point (hence the
reason for the confusion).

We have credited your account with the relevant funds (available for
cashout) as a gesture of good-will and in light of the possibility of
confusion.

Thank you for your continued custom.

Rachel

Casino Manager
Planetluck.co

 

[oblomov]

If casinos detect such activity do people think they should still pay?

Do people on the forum approve of such behaviour, given the impact it has on casinos changing T&Cs and the general restrictions it places on the average player?


If players do approve perhaps Bryan can arrange to set up a 'Meisters' player group and we can all coin it in. (joke Bryan!)

Mitch

If the casino is not suffering from a significant chargeback problem,then they must be sitting on a mountain of busted straight up bets. By reneging on the winning bets, they seem to be running a straightforward racket.

So Id say it all comes down to whether chargebacks really are a legimitate issue, as an earlier poster suggested.

I know what my suspicions are , but Im just a player. We need some industry experts to enlighten us.



good news dubi....just seen your post.

 

[umberto]

We have credited your account with the relevant funds (available for
cashout) as a gesture of good-will and in light of the possibility of
confusion.

Did they want to thank them too??? For god's sake.....

However, to take account of your comments we have amended our terms and
conditions to make it absolutely clear that any bonus amount and the
initial deposit can not be used on certain games until the wagering
restrictions are met (this was always our intention). We accept that the
previous terms may not have been totally clear on this point (hence the
reason for the confusion).

 

[sdaddy]

I'm happy to see that this casino did the right thing and returned the player's winnings, but the management's response was unfortunate. In light of all the evidence brought forth against them, a little more humility and a little less spin defending their actions would have been in order.

 

[jetset]

This issue is about to be resolved.

They return the money to the casino account I will let you know once they paid

Dear xxxx,

We have not attempted to steal any amounts from you.

However, to take account of your comments we have amended our terms and
conditions to make it absolutely clear that any bonus amount and the
initial deposit can not be used on certain games until the wagering
restrictions are met (this was always our intention). We accept that the
previous terms may not have been totally clear on this point (hence the
reason for the confusion).

We have credited your account with the relevant funds (available for
cashout) as a gesture of good-will and in light of the possibility of
confusion.

Thank you for your continued custom.

Rachel

Casino Manager
Planetluck.co

This is great news, and I am pleased for you Dubi - congratulations on your determination in hanging in on this dispute.

 

[elscrabinda]

Well done dubi. Does nothing for my trust in Planetluck but renews my faith in the power of persistence. I hope all the people being screwed over at the moment by Playtech casinos will take heart at this

 

[mitch]

Dubi

Well your perseverence and probably the use of this forum has paid off. (well played!)

You did answer my question my question about cashbacks but not the question about whether you are part of a group formed to take maximum advantage of casinos bonus structures.

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us.

Mitch

 

[Jay]

Just found this thread.. Wow, what a bunch of lying scumbags. At least it sounds like they're going to pay you, even though they continue to lie about it.

 

[dubi123]

Yes, they have not paid yet and I am waiting for their payment but I think now they will pay.

I am not part of any group, I am playing for my own, for mitch questions

 

[dubi123]

Unfortunately they do not pay me

they did return the 8200 to my casino account but it was a trick

Now every week after I cashed in they send an email that additional checks are on my play and the next payment will be in a later date
What should I do ? Do not play there they are lying

 

[sdaddy]

^Well as the saying goes, it ain't over till it's over.

Come on, Planetluck. Let's do what you promised and pay this player.

 

[caruso]

Update?

Dubi, if they BS you any longer you'll have to get legal redress. These people are stock market listed and cannot renege on a debt without big consequences. I'm sure there are members of the UK press who'd be interested.

 

[BingoT]

It's so funny to hear that they don't pay

It's so funny to hear that they don't pay. I have been promoting them for awhile and all the people I got for them won some great money ( Over $9000.00) in winning and they got paid.
It's like that Patty thing she had many many acct's on her.We never heard the end of that story yet.
I say if you Win don't worry they will pay.
If you abuse something with them like all casino's online they will not pay.

 

[sdaddy]

It's so funny to hear that they don't pay. I have been promoting them for awhile and all the people I got for them won some great money ( Over $9000.00) in winning and they got paid.
It's like that Patty thing she had many many acct's on her.We never heard the end of that story yet.
I say if you Win don't worry they will pay.
If you abuse something with them like all casino's online they will not pay.

No, this player's case is not like having multiple accounts. Can you point to a specific bonus rule that he violated? Even the casino eventually conceded he did not.

If you want to define abuse in broader terms such as violating the spirit of the promotion, then most people here, including Bryan, would say that is not grounds for revoking winnings.

 

[dubi123]

I got paid on friday

Thank you all for your help

 

[sdaddy]

I got paid on friday

Thank you all for your help

Good to hear. Way to hang in there.

 

[bb1webs]

Once again I find myself shocked ... this despite seeing it over and over ... and again... that an OC which has been around as long as this one ... who's operating costs are not even in the same dimension as its cousin the land-based casino endures on a monthly basis... the lights, the payroll, ... everything right down to Uncle Sam's heavy lean on their bottom line ... cannot find within itself the integrity to be magnaminous enough to CHEERFULLY admit that if there was fault to be assigned over this matter ... that it was they who were wrong ... and as such will be CHEERFULLY paying the debt that they owe due to circumstances they themselves created ... including the very T&Cs which plainly state what is necessary to satisfy the casino ...

That I remind you the player even went the extra 9 yards to get confirmation from the casino that what he/she was doing was within the accepted boundries ....

and then go back to the drawing board and fix the problem!

If you put on sale a new car for $10 ... you don't mistreat a potential customer just because you know you were too stupid to ask a selling price which would show a reasonable profit for the time you invested...

You be smart enough to not have put the car in a position where it could be gained for that price.

Is it me or ... I mean it just doesn't seem like rocket science to me. That is ... unless you want to start renegging and are forced to start coming up with excuses out of thin air which are plausible.

...............

Wait I'm not done yet.

Here's the part that literally pushes me into the next life. Nearly anytime I hear about a casino trying to pull such as stunt as this .... the matter is illuminated at a discussion forum ... a lot of denial goes on on the part of the casino ... more time consuming crap happens .... and finally the place breaks down and does the right thing .... but only after its been proven to anybody with half a brain that the place was obviously trying to cheat/not pay.

Then... . then the great minds behind the curtain come to a conclusion that they will pay after all.


? Hey if you're gonna make yourself out to be an azzhole,... at very least achieve the goal you were so willing to put your entire reputation on the line to get.

Geesh..



*******************

For the casinos ... to protect themselves..

The chargeback trick is straight out fraud and done so with complete malicious intent and IMO the casinos should do the obvious next step but only if and when the line is crossed into fraud. Meaning you gotta give benefit of doubt as much as that does suck.

Meaning that until the player has proven to be guilty of doing a chargeback: they must be treated in a fair and honorable manor.

However! Once that line is crossed the name and all prudent info on that player should be added to a blacklist which is circulated amongst the casinos so that each of these bottom-feeders will have been driven into the light and for lack of better words ... essentially only have to be paid for once - by that unfortunate casino which absorbs the chargeback.

I realize that someone can create a new identity to get around the above ... and I'm not expert so please chime in and correct if I'm wrong but I think it would get pretty tough to keep coming up with the "complete package" a player would need in order to cash out

when you add to that recipe some better protective T&Cs which could perhaps include something to the effect of
due to the extreme amount of fraud this casino has endured by players involved in a form of bonus abuse known as ... that should that player's history of play appear to mimic the pattern of such abuser fraud: ... that the casino reserves the right to ........ (basically cancel the account at their whim and keep all funds involved) ... and that if the player has a problem with that: ... then the casino strongly suggests the player choose to not accept any kind of bonus so that if/when the time should come they have won and want to cash-out ... that said option will be available without any kind of delay caused by the need for investigation to see if all play-thru requirements were met to prevent bonus abuse.

Seems a simple no-brainer to me. It is my experience you get what you ask for on the net ... from an advertiser's pov anyway.

If you advertise bonuses, you're gonna attract bonus abusers. In my 6 years affiliate marketing casinos: I've never felt I was missing anything because of the fact that I choose NOT to lean heavy on promoting bonus offers .. and my player base is one that I feel confident to say is probably as full of quality players as anybody on the net could produce to show. On the other hand I know webmasters who's whole angle is "free casino bonus!". And they get that kind of traffic accordingly.

My point being that the casinos aren't losing any favors if they don't seem attractive to the kind of traffic that these abusers obviously seem to frequent. What few decent players they get: do not counter-balance the steady stream of bottom feeders they are seeing.

Stop concentrating on spending your budget towards players that are all about meeting the minimum requirements to walk away a few dollars richer ... get a competent blacklist circulated amongst you ... aim those saved bonus funds towards rewarding the truly good players that you have.

The saying "buy quality and you'll never be sorry" applies to more than just goods. Approach your business model with quality customer service resulting in a satisfied player experience as your top goal and nearly all these headaches take care of themselves.