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Shock! Casino owners may change RTP in Play N'GO slots!

Moonlight Cat

Moonlight Cat

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
world
Hello, Yesterday we have big scandal on Russian / CIS market! Online Casino Vavada.com (Yes, yes they stolen name from Bovada.lv) change RTP in Book of Dead slots. From officialy RTP 96% to RTP 84% (that mean minus - 16 -EV).

As players wrote on Russian forum this slots give + 70% of all turnover on this casino, and + 70% turnover on all Play N'GO slots, because "Book of Dead" is the most popular slots in Play N'GO network.

The problem for Vavada and Play'N GO that players may check Play N'GO RTP slots via Google Chrome.

And results is absolutely shoking. This slot have different RTP in different casinos. In some casinos 96%, in some 94%. Most shoking results was in Vavada.com Casino - 84% (Officialy they declared 96%). Today Vovada return RTP to 96% and make statment that they will pay compensation for players.

But from my point of view "Change RTP option" is absolutely infair. Play'N GO must remove it ASAP! This is the same as fake software, where casinos owners may change RTP.

And now this was happens in Vovada.com 84% RTP. This is the same as you make bet on red/black on Roulette that contain 7 (!) zeros.
 
There was a thread about PlaynGo rtp on here a couple of years ago. Same rtp options goes for Pragmatic and Red Tiger.
 
Welcome to CM and thanks for the detailed screenshots.

Shocking - yes. Illegal - not totally.

Play'n GO offers all slots with 6 RTP settings.

MGA Malta requires minimum 92%
UKGC requires minimum 90%
Everyone else - Wild Wild West. Whatever operators want to offer their players or maybe better said, by how much they want to fleece them.

Here the official excerpt from Play'n GO

1581175542162.png
 
The fact P 'N Go actually release their games with maths models as low as 84% really makes me think about questioning their integrity overall, it's seriously dirty to make a random game with such a massive house edge, they genuinely have no business even existing.

At the end of the day it's just a help file, what safeguards are in place to make sure casinos don't say they're running a higher maths model variant, but are actually running one of the shit ones?

It'd be more honest if they simply turned up at your house and robbed you at gunpoint.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
The fact P 'N Go actually release their games with maths models as low as 84% really makes me think about questioning their integrity overall, it's seriously dirty to make a random game with such a massive house edge, they genuinely have no business even existing.

At the end of the day it's just a help file, what safeguards are in place to make sure casinos don't say they're running a higher maths model variant, but are actually running one of the shit ones?

It'd be more honest if they simply turned up at your house and robbed you at gunpoint.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure a UK casino is currently doing that!
 
ChopleyIOM said:
At the end of the day it's just a help file, what safeguards are in place to make sure casinos don't say they're running a higher maths model variant, but are actually running one of the shit ones?
Click to expand...

Great question and one i have wondered myself. Is there any governing body that checks or polices this sort of thing?
 
sufferinsilence said:
Name and shame.
Click to expand...

I don't want to do that until I get proof, which is proving rather difficult, as theres no way I can see, apart from the help file, to tell. I am confident I'm right though, it isn't one of the main casinos on here who have an active rep though. It is, however, one of the largest UK operators.
 
colinsunderland said:
I don't want to do that until I get proof, which is proving rather difficult, as theres no way I can see, apart from the help file, to tell. I am confident I'm right though, it isn't one of the main casinos on here who have an active rep though. It is, however, one of the largest UK operators.
Click to expand...

Did you try what the OP pointed out? Check the code and see what it says? That is assuming they can't manipulate that too tho.
 
colinsunderland said:
I don't want to do that until I get proof, which is proving rather difficult, as theres no way I can see, apart from the help file, to tell. I am confident I'm right though, it isn't one of the main casinos on here who have an active rep though. It is, however, one of the largest UK operators.
Click to expand...

Hope they get audited and busted and fined big if that is happening.

Edit: might remember something where some operator RTP changed down and up or something in quite short time.
 
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This is the problem with P 'N Go slots, the help file isn't directly integrated into the game itself, and looking at Moonlight Cat's posts casinos can simply call a different help file from elsewhere (i.e. the 96% help file) whilst actually running one of the lower RTP variants, all the way down to a diabolical 84%.

On (for example) Blureprint's slots, the RTP is listed on the main game screens or help screens, i.e. it's an integral part of the game itself, rather than being 'summoned' from elsewhere.

If there's anything you can say to me privately about this @colinsunderland feel free to do so, I'm not adverse to calling out shady shit on my YouTube channel where it's been positively identified.
 

Problem is if 1 provider pulls this shady stuff slotters aren't going to believe providers like Blueprint who have the RTP on the opening screen of their slots or BTG who only have 1 RTP setting, even if there is nothing shady going on with them.
 
sufferinsilence said:
Problem is if 1 provider pulls this shady stuff slotters aren't going to believe providers like Blueprint who have the RTP on the opening screen of their slots or BTG who only have 1 RTP setting, even if there is nothing shady going on with them.
Click to expand...
Would you like time to edit that?
 
Running games with lower RTP than advised for players would be big risk for any operator under even half-decent license. They need to be able to show which version of game have been online and when etc... Would assume UKGC wouldn't really like that and that fraud could be brought to court and there's not much casino can defend themselves if getting busted.

Not really sound great long term plan for me and hopefully not gonna be and they get busted. Some big fckup accidentally could happen where when changing games/information but that's also expensive mistake.
 

Hi Moonlight Cat, thanks for the detailed posts.

Can I just check with you, were Vavada able to show a 96% help file for their slots whilst running the 84% version?

What I'm really interested in here is if it's possible for a casino to call a fake help file that shows a high RTP version of the game is being run, whilst actually running a lower RTP version of the game.

Thanks! :)
 
Ive got a question on this - if a UKGP registered casino was not showing the rtp for a play n go within the game where it usually is under the “rules” section - like all other sites - would it be in breach of licence and therefore compensation owed against losses on that game.
 
at coral when I last checked book of dead it stated something like 'rtp last month 96%' :confused:

I think it was an external help file written by the casino rather than the ingame help file, it was no help to me to know what the rtp was last month I wanted to know what it was today :rolleyes:

edit: I did say a few weeks back in a coral/ladbrokes PnG thread, that all this offering reduced rtp versions starts to undermine confidence wholesale, especially when you have a rotten session on a game, it's inevitable that you start to wonder.
 
Last edited:
mack341 said:
at coral when I last checked book of dead it stated something like 'rtp last month 96%' :confused:

I think it was an external help file written by the casino rather than the ingame help file, it was no help to me to know what the rtp was last month I wanted to know what it was today :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Ive seen that at 1 or 2 casinos before and the way I understand it, it shows what the real RTP was last month. Not the theoretical. If you take a look at it again Im sure you will find the tRTP somewhere in the help file.
 
goatwack said:
All japes aside BoD has been rough for months now pretty much everywhere. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if some subterfuge was afoot
Click to expand...

The thing is, with a game like book of dead, it's so basic in its gameplay that after putting millions of spins through it over the years, you can feel the difference in play.

I play at one site where the help files shows 96% but it plays tighter than the 94% versions I play elsewhere.

I'm not dropping casino names though as I have no empirical proof except for my own perceptions and experiences.
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
The thing is, with a game like book of dead, it's so basic in its gameplay that after putting millions of spins through it over the years, you can feel the difference in play.

I play at one site where the help files shows 96% but it plays tighter than the 94% versions I play elsewhere.

I'm not dropping casino names though as I have no empirical proof except for my own perceptions and experiences.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry about that. They been happy enough for years to abide by wild Wild West rules, repay them the same dignity mate
 
Playford7 said:
Don’t worry about that. They been happy enough for years to abide by wild Wild West rules, repay them the same dignity mate
Click to expand...
i think slotsmillion and unibet playngo..both play horrendous for me time after time no matter what :mad:
 
Rarely play on ten lines on BOD, more so on 1 line usually if i play it,but thought I'd give it a go just now . In less than 500 spins, i got 8 sets of free spins.

J J J Q J J Q Q

Two retriggered, none gave a full screen. When the final one dropped, I decided to change my approach and politely ask for the J, rather than telling it to F*** off considering giving it me again.
:rolleyes:


Though I guess for those being mugged off on the 84%, having the above for a lil session is nothing but a dream.

Lick em, PnG.
 

I do that quite a lot too, haven't played loads today, but have had 6 sets of free spins, all 6 were 10's.
 
Nate said:
Looks like a few places at Direx NV advertise it as 96.21% and run it at 94%... Hmmm

Nate
Click to expand...

How is it possible to tell though? I know back in the day on RTG slots you could identify the lower RTP variants from the reel strips, (a lower paying symbol replacing a higher paying symbol, for example), but I can't imagine there are any obvious 'tells' like that on the opaque maths models modern slots run on.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
How is it possible to tell though? I know back in the day on RTG slots you could identify the lower RTP variants from the reel strips, (a lower paying symbol replacing a higher paying symbol, for example), but I can't imagine there are any obvious 'tells' like that on the opaque maths models modern slots run on.
Click to expand...

I suppose you are reliant on the help file - I checked some of the Maltese based casinos and those who say the RTP is 96% are true to their word. The source file in the google 'inspect element' also states the RTP is 96.

With other regulatory environments - I.e Curacao - They are not obligated to state the RTP in the help file. They do however state the RTP as 96.21% in game reviews or images but they are actually running it at 94%...

Nate
 
asghan said:
@Nate did you use the same method as OP? I tried it but there wasn't any records starting with comfly, there were some other records with .playngonetwork but they were all empty.
Click to expand...

Yeah same method.

Load the game - have the inspect element open, then refresh the game. You will see the files loading. There are multiple *.playngonetwork files - some are blank, check the others, you will eventually find the one with the RTP setting.

It seems SoftSwiss runs a default 94% across the network - haven't seen lower or higher.

Nate
 
colinsunderland said:
found it, well looks like a very large casino group in the UK are going to be getting a call from the UKGC as now have the proof they are running at a lower RTP than they are advertising. Sneaky fuckers.
Click to expand...

TBF, this reaches nearly the "RTG shady" level of over a decade ago where operators could switch willy-nilly between RTP settings.

Rather disappointed that Play'n GO would offer such means to operators. I always thought under UKGC and MGA licenses RTPs are controlled by the provider, or even have to be. Not really sure, maybe @trancemonkey can confirm.

Either way, this will rock the trustworthiness this industry so heavily relies on if this turns out to be as it looks right now and it blows out into the open.

Or they will try to convince us again of a "Vulkanbet is not Vulkanbet" tale. :rolleyes:
 
colinsunderland said:
found it, well looks like a very large casino group in the UK are going to be getting a call from the UKGC as now have the proof they are running at a lower RTP than they are advertising. Sneaky fuckers.
Click to expand...

Just to be curious without casino name, were they displaying different help file inside a game or was it some other content in their site where incorrect RTP was promoted?

If somebody would have loads of free time, there probably would find several places where RTP in some content is not same than actual one, especially if taking account affiliates etc... Can be quite tricky try to remember where everywhere something what change is mentioned. If it's some old article, then there could be way for casino to get around it by referring that at the time information was correct and right one is always in help file but if done with purpose false information, then can't see much to defend, if greediness or stupidity are not yet valid reasons.
 

It is as it seems. I need to speak to the ukgc first but will post the 100% irrefutable proof as soon as I can :)
 


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