Should CAP be rogued?

[GaryWatson]

I know the decision process comes down to CM's investigations but I feel their business ethics is an insult and has been for a long time now. Many people lose sight that the player comes first, that doesnt matter whether you are an affiliate, operator or both.


Following on from here

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/29330/

I didnt want to derail an active thread with one of my rants.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

On reflection I dont think that thread will bring anything positive, only cover up the negative aspects.

CAP is first and foremost a business, which is fact.

It is a grey area where CAP's motives lie regarding affiliates. Without sidetracking with the certification issue it comes down to one point, CAP care only about the bottom line "money". They dont give a rats ass whether affiliates are being scammed as long as they are sitting pretty.

Now that I have got that out of the way, there is no solution to the problem. Cardspike is only a side issue; it has been going on for as long as I've known about CAP.

It is the active forum members that make the site what it is. They should see it as a slap in the face, if they walk; CAP no longer has the power to victimize its members. If you think victimization is a little strong, many members have been banned at CAP for providing solid evidence that a site has ripped them off. Their threads have been deleted, their account taken over and mocked by staff. Talk about bite the hand that feeds them?

There is always fresh blood to prey on so CAP doesnt worry too much about pissing off innocent newcomers. It shows a total arrogance and lack of respect for its members. Decent sites should take note and walk away and leave the rogues to fight over placement. Decent operators should build their own affiliate forums and prosper through integrity.

My solution would be to eliminate CAP from the decision making process. There are more affiliates than ever before and more to come. They do not need rogue sites like CAP dictating to them. There will be newer super affiliates around who do not rely heavily on a false certification program.

CAP might feel they can bully the operators into keeping their over inflated position, maybe they can but not if the operators stick together and eliminate the rot once and for all. I think its high time CAP step back into line and chose what side of the fence they want to sit on.

When I see their label on a site I know I better not have any issues because they have a dishonest record and the operators seem to kiss their arses.

So as it stands, we are left with a scenario that not only are CAP collecting affiliate subs income, they are also collecting certification/sponsorship fees from the sites. Its anyones guess what goes on behind the scenes but my guess is, the only mutual benefit going on is between CAP and the operators. If you are lucky enough to have signed up through a CAP link, you might have a chance, otherwise you are a gonner.

I think CAP is bad for the industry as a whole. I think it gives pro UIGEA idealists a reason to keep out US players. I would like to see an end to these sort of self regulatory bodies with no substance. Maybe one day we will have a fully regulated industry but in all probability it will be littered with these parasites.

I vote to put CAP on the rogue list and let them work out what to do with their certification program.

 

[slotplayer]

I voted no for these reasons.

As an affiliate and I get more positives from CAP than negatives and no offense to CAP or those who run it I knew long ago by reading a few posts their agenda was money driven and what was said should be taken with a grain of salt.

Granted perhaps they do some things that I personally would not do but that is their choice to make and since I'm not behind the scenes drawing any conclusion as to their motives for they decisions they make is only speculation.

After over 28 years in high tech working for a dozen plus companies I learned not to second guess the management.

I don't have rouge section on my site. If a program stiffs players they're history. I have a zero tolerance policy. However, I rely on you guys and CM for this information. Plain and simple I trust your posts.

 

[greek39]

Yes without a doubt.

Thanks Gary!

greek39

 

[BingoT]

We all know you can't fix CAP's in a week.
I say if it's the same in a two week period Yes rogued them but I see a turn for the better is in the works.
For the best of CAP's they should sell it out and move on.
You can't run a place that had bad blood in it.
A Fresh New Start is needed.

I say the best person would be Bryan (CM) to take it over.
This way Bryan will have one for the players & one for the affiliates.

My 2 cents


GaryWatson Thanks for some good points that you posted.

 

[Webzcas]

I have voted no. As I believe you cannot rogue the CAP Community and by roguing CAP that is exactly what you would be doing.

Changes need to be made at CAP undoubtedly of which Bryan has come up with some very good ideas in the Cap Solutions Thread he started a few days ago.

To be honest I feel this poll is ill timed and regardless of it's intentions could prove another outlet to bash CAP with, which we don't need to be honest.

If you are unhappy with the way CAP is run and the lack of percieved transparency which has been well documented over the last month, then do what I have done. Vote with your feet and refrain from posting there and boycott their numerous conferences.

However I am willing to give CAP the community and Affiliate Media the chance to turn CAP around and if in the coming weeks and months they make the necessary changes needed in my view, then I would gladly return.

 

[Simmo!]

I'm with Webzcas. There is a distinction between CAP and Effective Media, despite ownership interests, and any Roguing could only be justified by the Cardspike incident. And even then, until ownership, and consequently responsibility for payment funding, is known it would be based on conjecture. Strictly speaking, the infamous PDF file is not a contract, merely intent.

While CAP has it's critics and hitherto has not responded well to criticism, it does provide a very valuable service to affiliates. A service that can be improved (and probably will be if ongoing discussions are anything to go by) I must add, but nonetheless, in my opinion not deliberately deceitful in any aspect.

So it has to be a "no" from me, although I accidentally clicked "unsure". D'oh!

 

[The Dude]

I agree with Simmo! and Webzcas.

Roguing a community (which is what pretty much what CAP is) is unnecessary.

I want to see CAP lift itself out of the mud and get its shit together. Lou and Warren messed up, and they know it. And I think everyone who matters knows this as well.

I can see roguing Cardspike for allegedly screwing over affs and players (FWIW - there have been NO PABs submitted concerning this operation). But that's about it.

The Certificate could be considered "bogus" if the aff program is not meeting its requirements perhaps. But I wouldn't go further than that.

The CAP affiliates should be trying to fix what's broken via their voices, or vote with their feet like a number of us have chosen to do. I don't think it's a time to continue to slap CAP around at the moment.

There are discussions at the moment that gives me hope that change for the better will be happening. Time will tell. It's to early to talk about rogue-dom.

LOL "rogue-dom", get it? (just jivin' you dom)

 

[The Dude]

...I say the best person would be Bryan (CM) to take it over.
This way Bryan will have one for the players & one for the affiliates.
...

And I can call it CAAP (Casinomeister Accredited Affiliate Programs)

 

[mercy]

Better yet, instead of taking over Cap, you can start your own affy program

 

[The Dude]

Better yet, instead of taking over Cap, you can start your own affy program

I'll call it Casinomisers.

 

[Simmo!]

I'll call it Casinomisers.

Yeah now I come to think of it, I don't remember you buying a round of drinks last weekend

Ps. I changed my accidentally cast vote from "unsure" to "no"

 

[Webzcas]

This poll was public. However since I voted no, I am now unable to view who voted. Has it been made private or am I missing something.?

 

[GaryWatson]

Some very valid points on the "NAY" side but I still firmly beleive that CAP/EM cannot police themselves, their interests lay elsewhere, a point which is becoming increasing appparent. A leopard can't change its spots.


I would like to point to the page below

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/rogue-casinos/

and a quote at CAP

russell@totesport
Certified Partner - Totesport

From a merchant's point of view, I rather naively considered the 'certification' to mean that my program would be screened by CAP and if it passed I'd have the opportunity (at a cost) to promote the program alongside other reputable brands who operate to similar standards.

On top of that the group has reinvested in a venture "Cardspike", which has systematically ripped off they community, they claim to protect. (Note : Still under debate)


IMO, the intent is worse than the crime itself.

This issue goes far beyond the CAP community and should be distinguished as such.

There are 2 sides to every story but a disagreement over the word "Certification" will never in a million years fix the underlying problem.

If they want constructive critisim I feel there is no other option other than to start off with the negatives and balance them off.


Time form me to bow out of the conversation.

 

[The Dude]

This poll was public. However since I voted no, I am now unable to view who voted. Has it been made private or am I missing something.?

Checking...

 

[spearmaster]

I can view the results as before, but it seems one can no longer view who voted for what.

 

[Webzcas]

I can view the results as before, but it seems one can no longer view who voted for what.

I can see the results but not who voted for what like you. I guess the OP made the poll private. Which kind of makes sense.

 

[GaryWatson]

I can see the results but not who voted for what like you. I guess the OP made the poll private. Which kind of makes sense.

I made it a public vote which has been changed (moderated). In hind sight the later is probably a safer option. People have their own reasons for wanting to remain anon and thats fair enough.

 

[BingoT]

Can I ask
Does it matter who Votes Yes,No or Unsure?
And if you vote yes watch out lol
I voted unsure because I want to see what goes on for a little bit.Give it time things will change for the better. (I Hope)

 

[The Dude]

Actually, I left it be. When Webzcas mentioned that it was no longer pubic, I checked into it, and I can't seem to edit it to make it so (public). I'm still checking into this to see what's up. The software was recently upgraded so it may be a bug.

I think the people were voting initially with the understanding that their votes would be public, not private. I find that "private" polls get a better response because some people don't want to show their colors outright.

 

[Simmo!]

I made it a public vote which has been changed (moderated). In hind sight the later is probably a safer option. People have their own reasons for wanting to remain anon and thats fair enough.

I may have done that inadvertantly when I went in as admin to change my false vote. Didn't notice but seems likely.

 

[mojo]

I have been thinking on this poll and I didnt want to respond until I got my head around it. I was thinking that we would be roguing an entire community but that is not so.

This poll asks if we should rogue this business model. I say yes. Disgruntled bannee? Perhaps. But my real issue is Effective Media promoting sites on CAP and the coverup. No business can be run like this so if we must rogue someone to prompt them just to do the right thing than it is what it is.

Here is my history with cap.

This is the post that got me banned:

At the risk of being beat up here at CAP, the title of this thread and subsequent posts does not invite an affiliate manager to partake in a business-like discussion. I see no goal towards a resolution, merely accusations and alienating a very good affiliate manager. If I were Nicolas, I would never post here again after being told my program was subject to theivery, shaving and lying. (I know, it was nothing personal against Nicolas).

Ok, bracing myself lol.

Regards,
Mojo

Since that post, I have been wearing this prison suit for a year and a half now for the whole world to see on CAP. Not a dam thing I can do about it. If you look up mojo you will see.

My avatar was changed by Lou for all my business partners to see. If I was out of line than fine, ban me. Its his forum. But really, change my avatar forever for all to see? That is called humiliation.

But that's beside the point.

Repeating myself..This poll asks if we should rogue this business model. I say yes. Disgruntled bannee? Perhaps. But my real issue is Effective Media promoting sites on CAP and the lies.

 

[jetset]

I have voted no. As I believe you cannot rogue the CAP Community and by roguing CAP that is exactly what you would be doing.

Changes need to be made at CAP undoubtedly of which Bryan has come up with some very good ideas in the Cap Solutions Thread he started a few days ago.

To be honest I feel this poll is ill timed and regardless of it's intentions could prove another outlet to bash CAP with, which we don't need to be honest.

If you are unhappy with the way CAP is run and the lack of percieved transparency which has been well documented over the last month, then do what I have done. Vote with your feet and refrain from posting there and boycott their numerous conferences.

However I am willing to give CAP the community and Affiliate Media the chance to turn CAP around and if in the coming weeks and months they make the necessary changes needed in my view, then I would gladly return.

Good point - and nice to see a balanced and considered view that reminds CAP members of their ultimate and powerful vote.

 

[mojo]

I can see roguing Cardspike for allegedly screwing over affs and players (FWIW - there have been NO PABs submitted concerning this operation). But that's about it.

I actually went to PAL to let them know that CM would be accepting PABS as per your advice. Kaus assisted me with that and sent Randy over here. However, he was greeted by Dominique who pm'd him to talk to Warren. Randy did not get any response here except by Dom.

Originally Posted by Ridge
Hello I am Randy and I was a long time member of PAP/CAP. I had the screen name Ridge on both those forums too before I was banned for speaking about about not getting paid. I was lucky enough to get a good start with Cardspike and even built to dedicated Cardspike sites and I have a very active forum with some high stakes grinders that I signed up there.

You guys know the story that follows, we never got paid, we started several thread to try and get a resolution and in the end we got banned for speaking out at PAP and CAP..

To date I have only been paid a small amount directly from Warren Jolly and I was told to keep quiet and I would get the rest. After a couple more months I realized I was never getting paid and started speaking with Lou and Warren to get paid.. They threatened me, cussed, me and finally banned me..

I have documentation of everything including PM's, Emails, IM's, and screenshots from Lou, Warren, Greg Powell (Former AM).

My stats were altered and my Cardspike affiliate account has since been locked/Closed - I am doing rakeback there so I still have players but cannot get paid, see stats or even log in.. I have emailed Cake Poker several times and they are not helping get my players, money, or my account unlocked.

I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post the screenshots of my affiliate account before my stats were altered, so I will wait until I hear something back..

This whole mess has really took a toll on me and I really want to put it behind me, but if there is a chance we can finally see our money and maybe Cake Poker will step up and kick CS off their network.


I will be more than happy to send an Admin here every bit of documentation I have on this issue..

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/28790/

 

[lots0]

One of my favorite true life sayings...
"Screw me once, shame on you.... Screw me twice, shame on me."

Another true saying...
"A leopard never changes it spots."

Here is my own saying...
"Thieves and con men will never voluntarily give up up their cash cow."


What is the CAP Community?
The public CAP forums looks to me to be nothing more than a way to recruit webmasters to become 3rd tier affiliates under CAP...
Why would anyone want to save that? Simple answer, they got money involved...

 

[dominique]

Why would anyone want to save that? Simple answer, they got money involved...

For the umpteenth time, I have no money involved. CAP is a community of my friends. We support each other and help each other out and we have done so for many years.

Together we have achieved quite a few significant changes in the industry, and I hope we will achieve many more.

If I have any financial interest, it is the benefit of a better industry for affiliates and a better working environment for myself as well as everyone else. There is a financial benefit in setting proper business guidelines in an unregulated industry, and on that level, I do have a financial interest, as well as an ethical one.

I know you had an unpleasant altercation with Lou, and I am sorry not everyone can get along. The old Hippie in me wants peace and love but reality is not cooperating. Believe me, I'd just as rather send out a bunch of flowers and sing pretty songs about a better world. It's not gonna happen in my lifetime though, so I fix what I can and some things just cannot be fixed.

That doesn't mean that nothing can be fixed, or that one has to throw out the baby with the bathwater (since we are quoting sayings here).

 

[lots0]

The public CAP forums looks to me to be nothing more than a way to recruit webmasters to become 3rd tier affiliates under CAP...

I'm going to start calling CAP by it's full name... Casino Affiliate Programs, always calling it 'CAP' makes it sound like some kind of kiddy club instead of the money making business it really is.

Casino Affiliate Programs (the Forum) is and has been in the business of recruiting 3rd tier casino affiliates..

Dom, why do you keep trying to avoid saying that Casino Affiliate Programs (forum) is a money making business?

If you want to help out you or your friends business, thats cool. But don't try and feed me a bunch of crap about trying to help out the 'community'.

I do believe there is a very valid argument currently being made by a lot of people in the 'business' that the 'business' would be better off without Casino Affiliate Programs in it.

 

[dominique]

Dom, why do you keep trying to avoid saying that Casino Affiliate Programs (forum) is a money making business?

??????????? Affiliate Media is definitely a for profit company. No way could anyone organize conferences etc etc without any money. Affiliates work for money too, at least they try to make a profit. No one ever said that Affiliate Media was a non profit group. No one there expects it to be non profit. It's not a charity, it's a business.

I was referring to your remark that anyone wanting to save the CAP community was in it for some monetary gain.

 

[lots0]

??????????? Affiliate Media is definitely a for profit company. No way could anyone organize conferences etc etc without any money. Affiliates work for money too, at least they try to make a profit. No one ever said that Affiliate Media was a non profit group. No one there expects it to be non profit. It's not a charity, it's a business.

I was referring to your remark that anyone wanting to save the CAP community was in it for some monetary gain.

Cool, so you agree that the Casino Affiliate Programs Forum is a business that uses a community to make money. Nothing wrong with that. As long as it is up front with the community about how it uses them to make money...

BTW - I missed where Casino Affiliate Programs Forum discuss this money making 3rd tier affiliate scheme with it's members(who are being used in the scheme), anyone got a link?

 

[dominique]

I have no idea if there ever was such a post, but I hardly think affiliates care, they are affiliates. They know if they click on a banner with a code, someone makes some money. No reason why casinos should keep all profits to themselves. Makes more sense to have them finance info sites with part of their profits.

 

[lots0]

Well of course, why would a self proclaimed 'affiliate advocate' have information on it's site about how the affiliate business really works. Or more specifically how the site it's self is going to make money off of its members.

Dom when you started talking about saving Casino Affiliate Programs Forum for a place just to hang out with your buddies, it rang false to me.

Casino Affiliate Programs is a Business and you are working very hard to save a Business, your not doing all this just to save some teenage hangout like you try to make it sound.

Dom it also appears that you are the head of this project to save the business of Casino Affiliate Programs Forums.

After all this hard work promoting and trying to keep his business alive...
Lou is not even going to offer you a few shekels or a cut of the action...?
beggars belief...

 

[Webzcas]

I can understand why Dom wants to save CAP. It has been her home for years. People get used to Forums, it becomes part of them. My first site was a forum and it is still going. It makes no money, but it is my baby and I had to reinvent it last year, to ensure it survived. Dom imo is trying to do the same with the CAP Forum. I doubt very very much she is doing it for monetary gain IMO.

 

[lots0]

Well it's real simple.

If she is not doing it for money and she really is in charge and it really is all about the community and not all about the money...
She can... Pull all the affiliate links off the forum.

But if Dom is working for a going concern (a money making business) then lets be up front about it and not hide behind this false idea that Casino Affiliate Programs Forum is just a happy (non-profit) place for buddies to hang out...

 

[dominique]

You can believe it.

I have been offered a salary for moderating in the past and turned it down.

I am in business as an affiliate only. I don't like working for other people, I have been self employed all my life.

I value my freedom above all else. If I want to walk from CAP, I can do so anytime without any financial consequences, and that's the way I like it.

Just like I designed my website in a way that allows me to boot any program at any time for any reason without losing a beat.

No one has the power over my decisions but me. That lets me sleep well at night.

I am doing ok for myself, I have no need to sell myself to anyone for any reason. I do lots of things for free if I see fit.

I want to see the community I have contributed to for some 8 years to thrive and be useful to all. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I had to vote unsure, even though I have a bad gut feeling about the whole thing. The allegations from banned members that following the ban, their accounts were hijacked by "staff" is very serious, and would be classed as a mixture of fraud and defamation. If anything should be "rogued", it would be the seal that is awarded to the individual programmes if it were the case that no vetting was taking place as stated, and that the seal was simply sold.

My first bad impression was the start of the spat between CAP and J Todd, I do not understand exactly what initiated this, but it seems J Todd is just as bad to me in his belief and support of the Gambling Wages (Virtual Casinos) programe, who are STILL screwing players, if not affiliates.

I do not know to what extent CAP holds sway, after all, when I made my website I was under no obligation to join a body like CAP to gain the right to dabble with a few banners, and my impression of CAP has been that they hold regular conferences around the world to offer information, seminars, and networking for the bigger webmasters - and may be the biggest, but not the only body that can do this.

The London incident nearly made me vote YES, but it seems to be a personal score that has been played out in a very public venue, and worst of all, a venue where the participants themselves were "at the office" so to speak.

 

[lots0]

I want to see the community I have contributed to for some 8 years to thrive and be useful to all. Is that so hard to understand?

No it's not.

But thats not what all this appears to be about.

If it is not about the money... just remove the money aspect, then it would be easy to believe you.

But with all those affy links on the forum and the current business model
(not to mention the lack of business ethics of the owners) it is hard to believe you Dom.

 

[dominique]

Maybe so. Nothing I can do about that. People will think what they want to think, and to me, it's never been about what people think. It's about doing the right thing. And at this point in time, this looks to be the right thing to do to me.

I never expected CAP to be a charity, it's obviously a business and always will be. It happens to host a community I care about and that's fine by me.

 

[lots0]

Dom have you been taking writing lessons from political speech writers? Not a single direct question addressed and staying right on message, Bravo.

Hey, I expected nothing less, I even said so around here somewhere...
Business back to usual at Casino Affiliate Programs. With Dom as the 'Honest Faced" front 'man' and Lou pulling the strings...

Too much money involved for it to be any other way.

 

[The Dude]

Admin Note: chill time

Okay - time to chill. The topic was whether or not CAP should be rogued. This is not a Dom bash thread - nor should it be a CAP bash.

Keep the posts objective please.

 

[LaurieJim]

Maybe so. Nothing I can do about that. People will think what they want to think, and to me, it's never been about what people think. It's about doing the right thing. And at this point in time, this looks to be the right thing to do to me.

i have been reading along on the different threads and i had to vote no, so many twists and turns in this issue, i honestly believe in dominique as she has always shown good judgement in her posts here and seems to be a fair person and wants to serve whats better for all even if it should lose her a friendship along the way, im just a player not a affy, but dom has came on here and posted to every question, so that alone speaks volumes imo.........laurie

 

[dominique]

I don't feel Lottso was bashing me, he is just being Lottso and wants to get to the bottom of things and that's ok by me. We have seen eye to eye on other issues previously, and if that's not so this time, that's ok.

No offense taken, probably next issue that comes up we'll see eye to eye again.

 

[lots0]

Nope not Bashing...

But you have to admit, it's going to be hard to make an argument to Rogue Casino Affiliate Programs, without appearing to 'Bash" them.

 

[Antonia1953]

I am not an affiliate and the online gambling community does not contribute to my income in any way. My interests are strictly landbased and machines only. I've been moving machines for 35 years. I will not say that I am not exploring the industry as a whole, but I will say, I am a player. I voted NO and did so, due to deductive reasoning.

I do not believe that CAP can be reformed or fixed, nor do I believe it can be removed forcefully. They grew with the accomodation, participation and acceptance of the industry and have been beneficial to it in some compacity. It is a "grease money" operation, but the industry is loaded with them and none of it is right and it will not meet the test of time.

To me, from the industry standpoint, it is clear that a separate entity is required to establish true recognition of talent, industry education, establishment and enforcement of standards and recourse for not meeting those standards. It should not be controlled by one or two individuals, but by a group of industry leaders. There should not be any exchange of money or reward for participation in any positions of leadership. Elect them. Yes, I'm saying let them run side-by-side. Community need will sort what is CAPs and what is industry, as their behavior will be monitored and judged by a community.

What would calling them a ROGUE accomplish, other than provoking a return action. It would also create a spectre of being an act of retaliation by an individual, that may be playing a key role of leadership in establishing a new entity. CAP is also a pioneer in this industry. Think industry...Think futuristically.

I believe that nothing good is accomplished without communication between conflicting parties and only if they can meet on the common ground that binds them. Otherwise, the best result you can hope for is a detente.

 

[rowmare]

You can believe it.

I have been offered a salary for moderating in the past and turned it down.

I'm surprised to hear that, because I was told a few years ago (just before I became a mod at CAP) that you requested a salary from Lou for all the time you spent at CAP and were turned down. You then stayed off the forums for a few days - I witnessed that myself. I'm sure they were lying, though.

Well, it was a long time ago. Just thought you might want a heads up about what's been said about you behind your back.

About roguing Casino Affiliate Programs:

Casino Affiliate Programs should absolutely be rogued! It's intolerable to even think that CAP owners can do everything they've done, from editing posts of banned members at their forums, to fraudulently 'certifying' affiliate programs to ripping affiliates off via another company they own and get away with it! We have a responsibility to our industry to do whatever is in our power to discourage unethical behaviour. What we have here is possibly the most influential organization in our industry behaving in heinous ways. I'm surprised that anybody feels they need to ask this question (Should they be rogued).

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I am not an affiliate and the online gambling community does not contribute to my income in any way. My interests are strictly landbased and machines only. I've been moving machines for 35 years. I will not say that I am not exploring the industry as a whole, but I will say, I am a player. I voted NO and did so, due deductive reasoning.

I do not believe that CAP can be reformed or fixed, nor do I believe it can be removed forcefully. They grew with the accomodation, participation and acceptance of the industry and have been benficial to it in some compacity. It is a "grease money" operation, but the industry is loaded with them and none of it is right and it will not meet the test of time.

To me, from the industry standpoint, it is clear that a separate entity is required to establish true recognition of talent, industry education, establishment and enforcement of standards and recourse for not meeting those standards. It should not be controlled by one or two individuals, but by a group of industry leaders. There should not be any exchange of money or reward for participation in any communities. Elect them. Yes, I'm saying let them run side-by-side. Community need will sort what is CAPs and what is industry, as their behavior will be monitored and judged by a community.

What would calling them a ROGUE accomplish, other than provoking a return action. It would also create a spectre of being an act of retaliation by an individual, that may be playing a key role of leadership in establishing a new entity. CAP is also a pioneer in this industry. Think industry...Think futuristically.

I believe that nothing good is accomplished without communication between conflicting parties and only if they can meet on the common ground that binds them. Otherwise, the best result you can hope for is a detente.

Nail hit by head and you have just won 15 free spins

And one of my favorite quotes from Twain (not Shania):
"Yes, even I am dishonest. Not in many ways, but in some. Forty-one, I think it is."

 

[dominique]

I'm surprised to hear that, because I was told a few years ago (just before I became a mod at CAP) that you requested a salary from Lou for all the time you spent at CAP and were turned down. You then stayed off the forums for a few days - I witnessed that myself. I'm sure they were lying, though.

Well, it was a long time ago. Just thought you might want a heads up about what's been said about you behind your back.

Lol, that version is news to me.

I was miffed when Lou brought Warren on board - I think that may coincide with the timing you mention, but not sure. At that time I evaluated the implications of an increasingly commercial CAP and after discussion decided to just keep out of the business part and stick with the community. And that was about the time when I was offered a salary and declined. The matter hasn't come up since.

 

[dominique]

And one of my favorite quotes from Twain (not Shania):
"Yes, even I am dishonest. Not in many ways, but in some. Forty-one, I think it is."

You have got to love Twain!

Some of my faves:

A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

and

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

But we digress.

 

[rowmare]

No matter what we do, as long as Lou and Warren's site is top of google for 'casino affiliate programs', they will just keep on keeping on. I'm afraid that as long as they hold these serps the programs will keep on supporting them.

I suggest to all affiliates and webmasters that if they disagree with the conduct of the owners of casinoaffiliateprograms.com, that they seek out and remove any links they have going out to that site. Either that or redirect such links to articles written about recent revelations...

That is the power we have as webmasters to make a difference, not only as a group, but also as individuals.

 

[RobWin]

No matter what we do, as long as Lou and Warren's site is top of google for 'casino affiliate programs', they will just keep on keeping on. I'm afraid that as long as they hold these serps the programs will keep on supporting them.

I suggest to all affiliates and webmasters that if they disagree with the conduct of the owners of casinoaffiliateprograms.com, that they seek out and remove any links they have going out to that site. Either that or redirect such links to articles written about recent revelations...

That is the power we have as webmasters to make a difference, not only as a group, but also as individuals.

I did manage to get close with the article I published...

 

[AussieDave]

I've always held the belief that most people directly & or indirectly connected to online gaming venues have the same goal. Which is to deliver game play that is fair, trustworthy and above all transparent.

Perhaps the fundamental inability to work together towards these goals is sometimes flawed because of egos. Or other times by conflicting interests. Be that as it may, I genuinely hold the philosophy that this industry can rise to represent a truly impressive standard - one which we can all be proud of.

Some of the current issues with Casino Affiliate Program are not just isolated to CAP. Although I don't agree with some of the choices made by Lou or his representatives, placing a black ban on CAP in my view would be counter productive for our industry on a whole.

I do hold empathy towards those who have been hurt by these events, but for those of you who can look past this and look towards a bigger picture, I sincerely believe we can all grow from these mistakes.

For me it's very hard to point the finger at one entity, when on the other hand other entities within the affiliate network & further a field run in a less that acceptable manner also.

As an example, giving an affiliate program status based purely on a paid dollar contribution is wrong. However allowing an aff program to keep its status quo when things go pear shaped or to look the other way when it is clearly affecting both players and affiliates is a travesty. However this happens on a daily basis in our industry.

Obviously there are no easy fixes.
However maybe a collective representation drawn from respected key figures within the online gaming industry, could develop a set of common and agreed protocols, which would serve to build a foundation for a united entities alliance.

Some times we as industry people forget to see the trees for the forest. After all these forums, affiliate associations and the entire gambit of the online gaming industry would not amount to zip if it were not for players who patronise these venues.

Cheers
T

 

[NASHVEGAS]

You have got to love Twain!

Indeed, Mark Twain had the incredible ability to merge wit with wisdom and perspective whether in writing or his speeches. He left contributions for the ages on just about every subject matter........................If only I could remember his great quote on internet message board dynamics. On the tip of my tongue.

Shania (she was actually named Eilleen when I briefly met her ~ 15+ years ago at a charity event) , well , she is easy (on the i's) so she gets some love too

BACK TO PROGRESS,PROGRESS,PROGRESS!!!!