Slots newb seeking guidance from experience slot heads.

[aristocrathatesme]

Hello fellow slot heads. I’ll try to keep this short. A trio of slots made by one manufacturer has showed some very peculiar behaviour lately. For quite a while the main one was giving me consistently healthy bonus rounds, which put me up a healthy amount whereby I pretty much always withdrew the full amount.

Then early on Saturday it just dried up completely, then last night I got 6 bonus rounds and only got up 25% and finally with my last stand deposit, never got more than a £1 down before quickly hitting a sweet £30 spin and bonus and clawing back some annoying recent losses.

My limited understanding of slots is that there is a built it high RTP, they have varying volatilities, and they are supposedly random. Therefore I strongly believe that a prolonged losing spell across three casino groups is not naturally likely to occur, nor is getting 6 bonuses in quick succession and 4 of them paying peanuts.

I was going to give the names of the slots but read the rules and realise this is frowned upon. I’m not addicted to slots in general but one of the games in question combines two of the greatest puzzle games and really floats my proverbial boat, so doing my due diligence before things potentially get out of hands. Therefore I’m interested to hear from more experienced players. I have my opinions on what maybe happening and why, but again don’t want to fall foul of the house rules. Cheers. A.

 

[dunover]

My limited understanding of slots is that there is a built it high RTP, they have varying volatilities, and they are supposedly random. Therefore I strongly believe that a prolonged losing spell across three casino groups is not naturally likely to occur, nor is getting 6 bonuses in quick succession and 4 of them paying peanuts.

That is EXACTLY the kind of behaviour random slots exhibit. Check the Bonanza thread for one example.

It would actually help respondents if you did name the slot, that's fine. Because it's likely many here will know the game and offer you more detailed replies.

Moaning about certain slots is a big part of the forum and so are conspiracy theories concerning luck, randomness and patterns, so we have no problem with that as long as it's polite!

And welcome to the forum!

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Hello Dunover, thanks for the quick response and warm welcome.

It’s the Secrets of the Phoenix trilogy predominantly Elements I’m referring to. With full respect and I fully take on board what you said and know you know your stuff hence your staff member status, but I really can’t get my head around how a slot could stay warm for a full month. Obviously I’m glad it did because my sports bets were dreadful for two thirds of April. I can only think of one occasion where I had to fight and put in much more money than I wanted to end up with the hardest won £5 ever on Elements.

I understand the conspiracy theories, because these machines are devilishly designed. My two main takeaways on Elements are that you often get well ahead on the sections that get you to the bonus and fail at the last hurdle when probability dictates that you are much more likely to succeed. For example, say you get to the last special effect and need to get rid of two or three blocks, the number of times I got a measly two fire blocks or a useless eruption is way above what would be averagely expected, as is getting to 19/20 on the final stage. Conversely my big win yesterday featured a brilliant fire round which got me a very healthy £6 for the bass spin and a monster eruption that caused a link of 21 blocks for a bonus £14.60 spin. Clearly what I’m saying is it’s the fire strike and eruption that will make or break your bonus success, but probably at 3:1 ratio they defeat you.

I realise that my budget probably doesn’t stretch to the 20p minimum and I really think Elements and Megaways are very sharky boom or bust slots, in fact I had to abandon Megaways because nothing is as disappointing in all of gambling as getting four Phoenix and winning under a £1.

Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read this and takes it the spirit it is intended . I can’t stress how much fun getting a spin that doubles your deposit on these games is , just that they raise your hopes and crush them far more often. Cheers all. A.

 

[dunover]

Hello Dunover, thanks for the quick response and warm welcome.

It’s the Secrets of the Phoenix trilogy predominantly Elements I’m referring to. With full respect and I fully take on board what you said and know you know your stuff hence your staff member status, but I really can’t get my head around how a slot could stay warm for a full month. Obviously I’m glad it did because my sports bets were dreadful for two thirds of April. I can only think of one occasion where I had to fight and put in much more money than I wanted to end up with the hardest won £5 ever on Elements.

I understand the conspiracy theories, because these machines are devilishly designed. My two main takeaways on Elements are that you often get well ahead on the sections that get you to the bonus and fail at the last hurdle when probability dictates that you are much more likely to succeed. For example, say you get to the last special effect and need to get rid of two or three blocks, the number of times I got a measly two fire blocks or a useless eruption is way above what would be averagely expected, as is getting to 19/20 on the final stage. Conversely my big win yesterday featured a brilliant fire round which got me a very healthy £6 for the bass spin and a monster eruption that caused a link of 21 blocks for a bonus £14.60 spin. Clearly what I’m saying is it’s the fire strike and eruption that will make or break your bonus success, but probably at 3:1 ratio they defeat you.

I realise that my budget probably doesn’t stretch to the 20p minimum and I really think Elements and Megaways are very sharky boom or bust slots, in fact I had to abandon Megaways because nothing is as disappointing in all of gambling as getting four Phoenix and winning under a £1.

Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read this and takes it the spirit it is intended . I can’t stress how much fun getting a spin that doubles your deposit on these games is just that they raise your hopes and crush them far more often. Cheers all. A.

I only ever played the first one, these are Gamesys slots right?

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Very confusing to be honest. From research they were owned by the same group as LiveScorebet and Virginbet both of which I use. I think they were acquired by Aristocrat hence my stupid username, and I also see Roxor Gaming and Anaxi attached to them.

Yes 5 of the bonuses I got were on the original secrets of the Phoenix so the small bonuses were less surprising. I would grade that one as the safest of the three. You’re very unlikely to hit a chunk win but it will bleed you more slowly. An example of how it pays less is that one bass spin qualified for 25 free spins which also triggered several more free spins while in action. I think it is reasonable to expect a bit more from than £10 for that bonus round.

Elements you have a much better chance of hitting a chunk win but will tease you a lot and violently.

Megaways is not for the faint hearted because the bass spins can be super dry for ages and as mentioned previously hitting the bonus is super rare and can pay basically nothing after all that waiting time.

 

[snorky510238]

You’ve come to the right place my man! I have a wealth of experience and I have actually dealt with an online Casino owner.

Here’s my opinion, which of course may be wrong, but I’ll tell you one thing for certain….it’s definitely not random.

I believe, (strongly), that slots are,,,,,let’s call it, super compensated and this is my take on how they work.

Normal compensated slots wouldn’t work online because there are too many players that would suss how much play through is required to trigger them and it would all be too open to exploitation.

Instead, the mechanics behind it try to make it less obvious when the windfall is going to occur. For example, your old standard slots might need a £250 gain before the windfall of £75-£100 dropped and then it would rinse and repeat, pretty much following the exact same pattern.

With online slots ((and FOBT’s) are the same, the compensation is more varied. For example, A slot may take £5,000 then pay back £1,000….Take another £3,000 then pay back £5,000…..Take another £10,000 then pay back £2,000…..Take another £2,000 then pay back £6,000, etc.

That would explain why all the bonuses and big wins are bunched together, and why somedays you get the feeling the bonus or a big win is blocked from happening…..It’s because, that’s exactly what is happening.

Obviously, modern day technology is so advanced, so there may be other things going on in the background…..Monitoring players accounts and slotting behaviour, etc, which may add to the conundrum, but essentially, I truly believe this is how it all works.

Of course, people will still argue that if that is the case, the results are still random. Which is where Casinos and Providers have it covered because to the unknowing player….that’s how it appears. What people don’t realise is that one day the game is playing at 82% rtp, the next, it’s playing at 99% rtp, next 92% rtp, next 80% rtp, next 97% rtp and so on. It may well end up averaging the 96% rtp overall ,that is advertised but it’s not playing at 96% every single day.

On a side note but still connected, take the mega jackpot games. Is there any chance that a Casino takes on a liability without some form of guarantee and if the Provider pays the winnings, would they take on the liability if there was a random chance that they might have to payout several millions in the first month…..Of course there isn’t.

If the results were truly random. How could they ensure that the jackpot figure always reaches a mouthwatering figure that keeps players coming back?

When I first joined this forum and made similar posts, nobody, not a single person gave them any credence whatsoever. There’s a lot that still don’t and never will, but there are quite a few that may not necessarily agree with my theory of how it works but they’re also not willing to believe that it’s all random. How has that happened? They haven’t suddenly started thinking that I am right, but what they have done is realised that slots cannot possibly work in the way we are led to believe.

I’ll leave you with this.

There’s corruption in every walk of life. Most of it, although we will never know the full truth, is in front of your very eyes every single day of the year. From politicians to the police force to sports betting and match fixing plus many others. You would have to be pretty naive to think that an Industry that by its very nature, is immoral and unethical….is squeaky clean.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Hey Snorky, familiar with your theory’s and love the Banana Splits reference. I’m not a conspiracy type in any form of life other than slots really. I honestly think anyone that plays similar slots as the Phoenix ones for any period of time would have to come to the conclusion that your spins are being humanly influenced at times. Look at my recent spell, I was both very lucky to get 6 bonuses and just as unlucky to not achieve any withdrawal amount from them I was comfortable with.

The only other slots I play regularly are the Kong Bigger Bananas set. Those are definitely not random. I must of had 100 bonuses on those and hand on heart 97 paid between £4 and £4.50, two were duds and one I got all the way across the board for £31 from a 10p spin. The most damning proof of scripting is that if you trigger extra spins but have already got to £4, those spins will never add to your total. It’s another clear example of a ‘reward’ not benefitting you in the slightest. Keep fighting the good fight Snorky, you have a similar thinker here.

 

[dunover]

Very confusing to be honest. From research they were owned by the same group as LiveScorebet and Virginbet both of which I use. I think they were acquired by Aristocrat hence my stupid username, and I also see Roxor Gaming and Anaxi attached to them.

Yes 5 of the bonuses I got were on the original secrets of the Phoenix so the small bonuses were less surprising. I would grade that one as the safest of the three. You’re very unlikely to hit a chunk win but it will bleed you more slowly. An example of how it pays less is that one bass spin qualified for 25 free spins which also triggered several more free spins while in action. I think it is reasonable to expect a bit more from than £10 for that bonus round.

Elements you have a much better chance of hitting a chunk win but will tease you a lot and violently.

Megaways is not for the faint hearted because the bass spins can be super dry for ages and as mentioned previously hitting the bonus is super rare and can pay basically nothing after all that waiting time.

Yeah, Roxor is the brand name Gamesys went to for their own brand of in-house bespoke slots, see them at Jackpot Joy, Virgin Games etc.

 

[snorky510238]

Hey Snorky, familiar with your theory’s and love the Bannana splits reference. I’m not a conspiracy type in any form of life other than slots really. I honestly think anyone that plays similar slots as the Phoenix ones for any period of time would have to come to the conclusion that your spins are being humanly influenced at times. Look at my recent spell, I was both very lucky to get 6 bonuses and just as unlucky to not achieve any withdrawal amount from them I was comfortable with.

The only other slots I play regularly are the Kong Bigger Bananas set. Those are definitely not random. I must of had 100 bonuses on those and hand on heart 97 paid between £4 and £4.50, two were duds and one I got all the way across the board for £31 from a 10p spin. The most damning proof of scripting is that if you trigger extra spins but have already got to £4, those spins will never add to your total. It’s another clear example of a ‘reward’ not benefitting you in the slightest. Keep fighting the good fight Snorky, you have a similar thinker here.

Good spot on the Banana splits. I think most are too young to remember them.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Yeah, Roxor is the brand name Gamesys went to for their own brand of in-house bespoke slots, see them at Jackpot Joy, Virgin Games etc.

Yes the majority of my winnings were from that group but the three used recently were ice cold.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Good spot on the Banana splits. I think most are too young to remember them.

Despite being a newb and fairly immature I’m 44 so saw clips when I was young. Need to source some full episodes sometime.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Yeah, Roxor is the brand name Gamesys went to for their own brand of in-house bespoke slots, see them at Jackpot Joy, Virgin Games etc.

My success on the free daily games has been noticeably nerfed to nothing so I have to assume I’ve won too much lol

 

[steveh35]

I have recently played these again after a long time away and the original Secrets of The Phoenix has most certainly changed, you used to frequently get the bonus and it would often give you 25 spins or more, my recent experience is that if you are lucky you will get the original 7 free spins but not get more during the bonus.

What has def changed is that the creature symbols now block wins usually on line 2 more than they used to and it is very difficult to put together a chain of wins.

I would also avoid the new version Secrets of the Phoenix Jackpot it is very very very volatile and if you can't win on the original the new one is virtually impossible.

They used to be enjoyable to play but unfortunately they have become money suckers.

Secrets of the Phoenix Megaways is quite good.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

I have recently played these again after a long time away and the original Secrets of The Phoenix has most certainly changed, you used to frequently get the bonus and it would often give you 25 spins or more, my recent experience is that if you are lucky you will get the original 7 free spins but not get more during the bonus.

What has def changed is that the creature symbols now block wins usually on line 2 more than they used to and it is very difficult to put together a chain of wins.

I would also avoid the new version Secrets of the Phoenix Jackpot it is very very very volatile and if you can't win on the original the new one is virtually impossible.

They used to be enjoyable to play but unfortunately they have become money suckers.

Secrets of the Phoenix Megaways is quite good.

Thanks for chiming in Steve. Excellent to hear from someone who knows the games in question specifically. I note that they are now owned by Aristocrat and I watched a damning documentary about how ‘pokies’ are ruining a lot of Australian lives, so it would not surprise me if when they became Aussie owned the margins were tightened in favour of them and the casinos.

If I can ask do you remember the average payout for a 25 spin bonus on The original Secret of The Pheonix? I’d estimate I got over 30 spins with accrued bonus ones and won just over a tenner, not the worst disappointment by these slots standards but pretty underwhelming. All the best.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

Thanks for chiming in Steve. Excellent to hear from someone who knows the games in question specifically. I note that they are now owned by Aristocrat and I watched a damning documentary about how ‘pokies’ are ruining a lot of Australian lives so it would not surprise me if when they became Aussie owned that the margins were tightened in favour of them and the casinos.

If I can ask do you remember the average payout for a 25 spin bonus on The original Secret of The Pheonix? I’d estimate I got over 30 spins with accrued bonus ones and won just over a tenner, not the worst disappointment by these slots standards but pretty underwhelming. All the best.

They are definitely ‘approach with caution’ these days for sure lol

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I am more than certain that the result of each spin is random and does not depend on the player's previous actions. Especially with large providers. They have no reason to invent anything, the mathematical advantage is on their side. Plus, we should remember that there are regulatory bodies that check them. However, I admit the possibility of encountering fake or fraudulent games in some questionable casinos.

To validate or disprove your observations, we need actual data. During losing streaks, our perception becomes distorted and we tend to feel everything is rigged against us. It's also important to remember that in many games, casinos can lower the RTP to as low as 88%, and this isn't always transparent to players.

 

[aristocrathatesme]

With all due respect I think data is overrated and is something for casinos to hide behind: RTP calculated over 1 million spins for example is a massive number that gives them a lot of room to fiddle with the RTP on a micro level.

We will never agree on this so I will just wish you all the best and good luck.