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Poll Source of Wealth poll: How do the SOW requirements affect you? 2022

UK and EU only: How do the Source of Wealth (SOW) requirements affect you? 2022

  • I don't like the intrusiveness and play at casinos that are NOT licensed by the UKGC or MGA

    Votes: 28 16.7%

  • I don't like the intrusiveness but still play the same at casinos that require SOW.

    Votes: 18 10.7%

  • I don't like the intrusiveness but still play at casinos that require SOW - but play less.

    Votes: 14 8.3%

  • If I am asked for SOW, I don't comply and move on to another casino.

    Votes: 67 39.9%

  • I don't mind. I play the same.

    Votes: 13 7.7%

  • I don't mind, and I play more now.

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • I've never been asked and I play at UKGC and/or MGA casinos

    Votes: 27 16.1%
  • Total voters
    168
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Dude

The Dude

The artist formally known as Casinomeister
Hall Of Fame Awardee Shield Meister
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
The Source of Wealth or SOW is here to stay in the UK and EU - well at least with those casinos licensed in the UK or in Malta. These are the only two jurisdictions that are requiring players to submit personal banking information that most of us (including myself) consider intrusive and biased towards online gamblers. A land based casino will never if ever ask for your pay stubs to prove you should be gambling.

We conducted this poll in both 2019 and 2021 , and it's interesting to see the trends in how folks are reacting and dealing with this.

So please vote in our poll and give us some thoughts on why you voted this way. ANd please - this only applies to folks who live in the EU/UK. All others please don't vote.

Previous polls:
Source of Wealth poll - 2019
Source of Wealth poll: How do the SOW requirements affect you? - 2021
 
Close account/ stop playing and go elsewhere was my previous preference but dabbling off shore (as i'm sure some/many are) recently.

It's the contrast in places: Bet365 will rarely ask for medium play, same as Unibet (90k deposits) but MGA's like L and L will SOW for low amounts and standard play - it's nuts. Almost like the casino's don't know what they're doing and making it up as they go along.

Worst casino for it - Casumo: these chancers will allow you to continue to deposit in my experience, SOW pending.
 
Option 1 and has been a long while now - but not playing for the past 2 months anywhere. But SOW - amoungst other restrictions such as no auto play etc and very anal KYC was nail in coffin for me. UK Casinos can now do one.
 
I try to avoid UKGC for now, last 2 weeks I lost 5 accounts 4 accounts hold over 3-4 years, I refuse SOW, I dont bet high regular bet under £1 regular deposit£100-£300, all of them pick me wtf ? pick someone else ?
For now Crypto Casino, fees to high ? Crypto casino needs to top up are balance for 5% fee
I am surprised same casinos I see streamer betting £40 per spin and calling £2000 £3000 on BJ or roulette, and they ask me for SOW
 
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Not just the SOW`: don't want to grind for a bonus, will just buy one and go back to Netflix. Can't. Ok, but then just power spin through the 10% RTP base games - nope, can't do that either. Nor watch Netflix and not click. Ok, cool so will spin on some 96%'s - well, hardly can do that either.

Like an anti fun grenade was launched.

May hit a dodgy offshore casino and get denied a w/d but, in playing the likes of Mr Vegas' 91% slots you'll have 'lost' probably the same amount.
 
For me, #4. Used to play at Casumo a while back when there was everything in order. But then i got hit with SOW, and their unsatisfied reply arrived around 3-5 months after i sent my docs in.

But as i was playing then at Casimba already, i didn't give F what Casumo wanted. However, sometime later, the same story happened with Casimba and also with Unibet.

What i can't stand is their additional document requests after i send them proper UK bank statements for the last 3 months with no-nonsense income.

Playing now at Ladbrokes online and Rainbow Riches only. They seem like are leaving me alone. But if these start those tricks with me, I'll then simply play in real casinos. The last time i visited a real casino in London, they asked me for SOW.

But they said i can come in and play 4 times, and if i don't bring them any docs, I'll have to leave. But i showed the manager the baking account right off my phone, and it sorted all out right away.
 
#4 for me, both Entain and PokerStars. Both were a walk in park. That's also because the bank I use to deposit and play with those 2 casinos, is a straightforward bank account that does not show any 3rd party funds that are coming in.
 
Amazingly I’ve never been asked for a thing at any casino despite depositing hundreds of K.

But I rarely leave the cosy waters of uk bookie sites. There you are free to brain out as much as you like and nobody cares.

My card is due to expire at end of sept and I’m hoping registering a new one does not cause any grief.

Saturday without my football accas wouldn’t be the same!!!
 
I really don't mind supplying SOW.
But my problem is getting the casinos to accept it!

RIZK casino was a perfect example. I told them I am self-employed, promoting online casinos (including theirs!) and that is my only source of income. I supplied proof of that and my tax return statement. But they wanted to see a pay-slip. I don't get pay-slips from anyone I work with!
So I had to close my account with them.

Overall I think "Source of Wealth" is complete meaningless nonsense. Players on very high incomes could be terrible uncontrolled gambling addicts, while someone on a very low income could have perfect self-control and act responsibly.
I do 100% agree with not letting players deposit with credit cards.

KK
 
Currently i guess option one, but not per-se by choice..
I assume some of the Casinos i currently play at also have a UKGC and MGA licence, for instance Unibet has recently opened up again to Dutch players, but the client we are using is probably on a different IP and license, as opposed to Uk players and other nationalities..

So far, shortly before the Dutch Market restrictions, SOW was already a thing, and i have never yet been asked for any. Of course i don't play big amounts, so perhaps i either got lucky, or was just not interesting enough :)

I don't like the intrusiveness, and am not sure if i would comply. Guess it depends on the Casino asking, and the way they go about it?

I'd like to recall something i talked about a while back, where it is now an option for many Dutch facing Casinos, that you simply sign up through IDIN, which is basically a one time log-in through your banking app/client, whereby you are instantly identified, with your ID etc.
Not too much of a hassle, although sometimes the process was very buggy. But that could be because it was still fresh. Could be a lot smoother now, i suppose

This is one method that seems very streamlined, and as far as i'm concerned all a Casino will ever need in terms of 'KYC...
The only instances where further due diligence would be warranted (i.m.o.) is when players do huge deposits, change their regular deposit patterns drastically, log-in from weird locations etc. to perhaps see if all is well, in terms of responsible play, ID theft or resources inquiry

A lot of the 'red flags' for such examples, could be picked up fully automated too.
For the rest they should just leave us the hell alone, give us back our autoplay, and be happy they are making a shitload of money :D
That's all i have to say on the matter...
 
You missed out "I find it intrusive and I don't play online anymore" ;-)

Back when I did, my main issue was not knowing who would see that info. I obviously trusted the casinos I played at as a whole but you have no idea who sees the info. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was a central organisation, perhaps Government owned, who received the docs although even then, the whole idea of being assumed to be a criminal until proven innocent rankled with me.

It wasn't the only reason I gave up gambling online around 5 years ago but it was a major factor.
 
I was recently banned from all White Hat Gaming sites and accused of playing in Bad Faith for refusing to send them bank statements... Why should a gambling company know everything about what I spend and where....

The UKGC and MGA seem to want to destroy gambling... They are arguably actively anti-gambling.
 
trancemonkey said:
I was recently banned from all White Hat Gaming sites and accused of playing in Bad Faith for refusing to send them bank statements... Why should a gambling company know everything about what I spend and where....

The UKGC and MGA seem to want to destroy gambling... They are arguably actively anti-gambling.
Click to expand...
That’s the crux of the matter. People shouldn’t be strong armed into sending personal spending habits to casinos. As I’ve said before, when you step back and think about it it’s pure absurdity.

The thing that semi surprised me is that there seems to have been no collective pushback from the casino side.
 
I have only ever signed up to, supposedly, reputable casinos.
Yet, by the number of emails and text messages I get. My name, email and phone number have, obviously, been sold on or leaked or whatever.
So, why on earth would I trust any casino with even more personal information?

The UKGC may be insisting on certain customers submitting such information.
BUT, can they (the UKGC) guarantee the safety of that information?
If not, are they going to be paying compensation if anything goes wrong?
 
justdoit said:
View attachment 172649
Click to expand...
Really?? Are we still, at UKGC casinos, seeing this bogus deposit limit scam? Loss limits masquerading as 'deposit limits' I see they've added 'net' to it so they can still avoid using the emotive word 'loss'. :rolleyes:
 
Simmo! said:
You missed out "I find it intrusive and I don't play online anymore" ;-)

Back when I did, my main issue was not knowing who would see that info. I obviously trusted the casinos I played at as a whole but you have no idea who sees the info. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was a central organisation, perhaps Government owned, who received the docs although even then, the whole idea of being assumed to be a criminal until proven innocent rankled with me.

It wasn't the only reason I gave up gambling online around 5 years ago but it was a major factor.
Click to expand...
That's the thing. I have stopped playing at most MGA or UKGC casinos mainly because I don't trust the way this information is handled. PLUS it's none of their damn business. In the early days of online gambling, the online casinos tried to mimic how the casinos in Las Vegas operated. It was all going relatively fine until the nanny governments got involved.

If you are not required to show one's source of wealth when visiting a land based casino, then it SHOULD NOT be done with the online counterparts.

We all want regulated gaming, but not intrusively regulated gaming. If a casino is going to go the SOW path, then it should be upfront and done when a player signs up.

Additionally, there should have been a central organisation set up for this. Not some Joe's working in some back office handling private financial docs from players. You think I or countless others with comply? Nope - that ain't going to happen. There are plenty of upstanding and trustworthy casinos licensed elsewhere that don't intrude on our privacy.
 
@everyone in this thread: 40% of folks selected "If I am asked for SOW, I don't comply and move on to another casino."

If you don't comply and move on, what about your winnings? Are you just abandoning your winnings and moving on? If so, then why bother?
 
UKGC have gone and pretty much buried UK gaming. This is a small poll for sure but the results so far are telling. If it had been a central govt body then maybe just maybe I would have stayed gaming in the UK (but what about auto play ..) ... but as others said in this thread - sending very personal and often sensitive information to some hole in a casino back office. High risk for sure. I could never comply even if I wanted to as all my income comes from multiple sources - with multiple clients across many regions. I am not allowed to divulge such information. So it was always a no go.

I recall how the legit casinos of yesteryear were pretty much self regulated. Sure they lacked certain RG tools but that was always gonna be an easy fix. So now no wonder the exodus has begun to offshore gaming and it will continue. Plus the likes of 3dice who have extensive RG tools - never any issues - safe as it comes - and without any intrusion looking for sow or other bullshit.
 
Excellent points, Deeplay. Reminds me of the adage (From Cowboy Ronnie of course) "The nine most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.”

 
Voted 2) - Find it intrusive but play there all the same (grudgingly).

Back when SoW was introduced, the reasons seemed noble enough: To detect the dirty money, and to ensure problem gamblers would have a harder time getting their impulsive deposits through.
But it seems that somehow the majority of the casinos and sportsbooks have managed to turn it upside down and it is now used merely as another instrument to hold your money hostage and to stall payments.

Example, over a 3-4 months period of time I made a series of deposits to a reputable mga licensed nordic casino&sportsbook I had been using for a while, all of these deposits much bigger and of a far higher frequency than my normal behaviour. Also, every time I'd play untill my balance was back at 0. Not once was I asked what, or whose, money I was spending (the only one I'd hear from was their vip manager, quite eager to befriend me). But once I initiated a significant payout, all I could hear was SoW this and SoW that...
 
This has occurred twice for me - both times I initiated a w/d and shut the account as in both cases the SoW request had come AFTER the w/d actioning. One paid in 2 days, the other after 5 days when I told them that they were not supposed under UKGC rules to hold the w/d to ransom after the event.
 
ive got an issue with that lovely trustworthy casino the one and only drum roll please its CASUMO who are the worst at sows, always asking for this that and everything, after being FULLY VERIFIED after a withdrawal they asked for more. but what they wanted i could not supply so emailed them as per usual they never respond this happened at least 5 times so last email stated i will answer your email when you respond to mine and told them they are shocking at customer service. upshot is they never replied so good riddance.
 
I’m not in the jurisdiction you had originally asked but we do, just recently, have to provide SOW here. In order To play on a licensed Ontario casino, you don’t have a choice. Either you give the info or you play on an unlicensed (in Ontario) site. Depending on the casino and how intrusive they actually get, I’ll put my occupation and stop there. There was one casino that was actually asking for my credit score/report and everything! Not a friggin chance lol, that’s going too far for me!
 
I voted 'move to another casino', thankfully each time I've refused to comply it's been without a withdrawal pending (even Casumo ? ), except for Pokerstars, where I had a small balance, so I told them to close my account.

I used to comply and have completed several SoW procedures successfully, though I won't provide documents these days due to the extreme nature of requests.
Goalposts get moved with each document provided (if asked for everything in one go I 'may' comply) which prolongs the process. I'm happy to provide Pay Slips and bank statements that correspond to wages, deposits/withdrawals to the said casino etc.
I refuse at the point where they want to see three months 'unredacted' statements and evidence of other assumed incomes (crazily savings accounts as though I'd gamble with these :mad:) or refuse perfectly good documents.
 
I had a couple big wins this year (around 4k a few months back and another 5k a few weeks ago after playing years and never having a win that big) because of that I was able to wager a lot on slots and now they've put deposit/loss limits in place. If I want to raise them I have to do something like a SOW. So I have to limit my spending now cos there is no way they are invading my privacy like that. The thing is I doubt they take into account any big wins you've had, the only thing that counts is if you've got a 100k a year job. Otherwise they think you can't afford what you are spending.

And when I came across this on the gambling commission site-

  • An online operator permitting a customer to deposit, and lose, £187,000 in two days. This was despite the customer having no regular source of income and funding play from inheritance money or redeposited winnings.

My reaction was, so? Yes it's a huge amount of money, and it might not be what their dearly departed wanted them to spend their inheritance on but it's legal isn't it, it's their inheritance, their money! Now the UKGC are making out like spending winnings or inheritance is something illegal. It's not ideal but I really don't see what business it is of the gambling commission how people spend their inheritances or winnings. That is a legal source of wealth isn't it, unless I am missing something...
 
Exactly. I've made this point before. People should be free to spend THEIR money how they see fit. Anything else is just a blatant attempt to control what people can and can't spend their legitimate money on. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with depositing from winnings...that's the bread and butter of bankroll management; surely that's better than dipping into 'fresh' funds from wages. I honestly have no idea what goes through the UKGC's minds.

I suppose it doesn't exactly help matters that these people gamble said money then go whining their bag off to the regulator when they lose it, hoping to get some sort of refund.

I remain firmly of the opinion that more time and resources need to be spent on educating gamblers on how to reach out for help and the variety of self help tools that are readily available to them, rather than the draconian cutting everyone off at source like the UKGC seem to want to do.
 
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@Mr_Slot5 yes I really don't see what that operator did wrong-they asked for SOW given the huge amount of money involved and they were given satisfactory evidence that the gambler in question had legal funds to play with, was not money laundering and was not getting into debt. That should be the end of it. They are pretty vague as well, like how much was the inheritance they received, how much of it was spent and how much was just wagering previous winnings? Not that it's any of our business, but they are making that person look bad even though they went to all the trouble of giving reasons why they could afford to gamble that much. It's not up to them to pass judgement on other peoples lifestyles-don't have a job but you're retired and got loads of savings, or you won the lottery, sorry no regular income, failed SOW. Who wants to offer up your personal info to fail it anyway and then end up as an example of a problem gambler on that douchebag site?
 
As a small stakes player I technically shouldn’t get caught up in SOW. But if I was to be asked, no casino will be getting my private financial information. I’d probably quit online slots altogether and go outside and play instead…

I guess for the casinos concerned it is better to turn away customers than get massive fines imposed by the UKGC. It’s a lose/lose situation for casinos so I’m not sure why they aren’t showing more resistance. Oh yes, the massive fine. What a fucked up situation…
 
pinnit2014 said:
On the flip side though: people, for MGA anyway, are quite happy/content to send in passports and driving licences as part of KYC. And, might be wrong, but I could do a lot more damage with that than information that I spent 3.33 in Greggs on a Thursday.
Click to expand...

That's something I'd forgot to add, it's very strange that I get many messages and emails each day from sites I've never even heard of, clearly at my phone number and email has been sold by at keast one site to other vendors. God knows what other info they've sold.

You're right the identity part is most valuable to buyers, but heck could I trust them not to sell details of my personal finances and aspects of spending in everyday life.

I've seen many soft credit checks on my credit it file which I'm happy with, this is probably the best way to go rather than asking to see extremely personal information, which most people will not comply with.
 
There’s some sites, even ‘reputable’ (whatever that means) that request it via email: which is bonkers as no encryption etc so even if they don’t intentionally sell it, it’s lying in wait for someone to get their hands on quite easily if they have a data breach; and if FB, LinkedIn etc can be hacked then I think we can assume a tinpot casino can as well
 
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