Tower Gaming Doesnt Pay me for 3 months

[multirake]

multirake VS Tower Gaming

Hi,

I had a deal with David Visser the director for Tower, for x8 unlimited bonus and 45% ngr or up to 65% gross deal. It seems that David is not the man of his words and refuses to pay affiliates. Attached above you will find the chat that we had over skype, i have also attached a chat i had with the manager from Ongame Network. According to David everything was fixed and the affiliate payment was processed, last week i discovered that they have yet to process my payment and i received an email from them soon after i contacted Ongame that my account has been blocked due to being a blacklisted affiliate in the network. Soon after this i contacted Carina Engstrom who is an account manager at Ongame and she said it was not true ( i have attached a print screen of our conversation. According to Tower Gaming this deal was never made and also my affiliate account was closed. I used to have a fullhouserakeback affiliate account which was closed before and David told me to create another account username- svet0321. I have attached both print screens above. I am not really sure what these guys are doing, but i know one thing, they keep on lying to cover up this dirty mess they have created. They continue to tell me that they will pay me, and when i request a date, they fail to reply. Please have a look at the print screens that i have sent you.

[9/23/2009 4:08:57 PM] David Visser: hey man - just making adjustments to your aff account
[9/23/2009 4:09:07 PM] David Visser: had to dio it manually lol
[9/23/2009 4:09:42 PM] Bruno: Hey
[9/23/2009 4:12:02 PM] Bruno: I sent you an email
[9/23/2009 4:12:09 PM] Bruno: where you able to check it
[9/23/2009 4:12:11 PM] Bruno: ?
[9/23/2009 4:45:37 PM] Bruno: Hey David
[9/23/2009 4:45:44 PM] Bruno: do you do gross deals?
[9/23/2009 4:45:53 PM] Bruno: i have a big affiliate which is leaving Heypoker
[9/23/2009 4:46:03 PM] Bruno: and he is looking for another Ongame skin
[9/23/2009 4:47:28 PM] David Visser: brb - but want to chat - just an on going meeting |-(
[9/23/2009 4:47:37 PM] Bruno: ok
[9/23/2009 4:47:42 PM] Bruno: i am going to eat dinner
[9/23/2009 4:47:45 PM] Bruno: be back as well
[9/23/2009 5:35:09 PM] Bruno: I am back
[9/23/2009 5:36:19 PM] David Visser: first I need you to sign up a new account - since ongame is still giving us grief
[9/23/2009 5:36:34 PM] Bruno: uhh
[9/23/2009 5:36:37 PM] David Visser: just don't use your name - in the username
[9/23/2009 5:36:43 PM] Bruno: are you serious
[9/23/2009 5:36:45 PM] Bruno: lol
[9/23/2009 5:36:59 PM] Bruno: are my players and $ going to be transfered
[9/23/2009 5:37:00 PM] David Visser: I will tranfer your players and set up the commission
[9/23/2009 5:37:08 PM] David Visser: today
[9/23/2009 5:37:13 PM] Bruno: ok
[9/23/2009 5:37:19 PM] Bruno: let me create it now
[9/23/2009 5:37:26 PM] Bruno: so i just use a fake name?
[9/23/2009 5:37:27 PM] David Visser: yes - they don't want you to even be an affiliate
[9/23/2009 5:38:04 PM] Bruno: Can i use my partners name instead
[9/23/2009 5:38:05 PM] David Visser: yes just don't use your name and put in your MB info
[9/23/2009 5:38:21 PM] Bruno: I still have to create mb account
[9/23/2009 5:38:28 PM] Bruno: can i add that later one
[9/23/2009 5:38:39 PM] David Visser: yep
[9/23/2009 5:46:59 PM] Bruno: Its giving me problems
[9/23/2009 5:47:02 PM] Bruno: on the nick
[9/23/2009 5:47:19 PM] Bruno: it says 3-12 numbers letters or characters
[9/23/2009 5:47:22 PM] Bruno: i change it
[9/23/2009 5:47:26 PM] Bruno: but it denies
[9/23/2009 5:47:59 PM] David Visser: a new account?
[9/23/2009 5:48:08 PM] Bruno: yeah
[9/23/2009 5:48:19 PM] Bruno: its not allowing me
[9/23/2009 5:48:49 PM] David Visser: what email? just use a diff email too
[9/23/2009 5:48:57 PM] Bruno: i did
[9/23/2009 5:49:46 PM] David Visser: 1 sec
[9/23/2009 5:50:43 PM] David Visser: brb
[9/23/2009 5:55:56 PM] Bruno: ok account is created
[9/23/2009 5:56:07 PM] Bruno: username= svet0321

[9/23/2009 6:25:35 PM] David Visser: ok - how did he come through that affiliate?
[9/23/2009 6:25:46 PM] David Visser: did he not clear cookies?
[9/23/2009 6:25:57 PM] Bruno: I am not sure
[9/23/2009 6:26:04 PM] Bruno: he has been playing for 1-2 months
[9/23/2009 6:26:12 PM] Bruno: and his bonus was finished
[9/23/2009 6:26:15 PM] Bruno: i contacted tom
[9/23/2009 6:26:20 PM] Bruno: he said to contact you
[9/23/2009 6:26:24 PM] Bruno: since you deal with bonuses
[9/23/2009 6:26:31 PM] Bruno: and he said the player is not tracked to me
[9/23/2009 6:27:19 PM] David Visser: ok switched - but if that affiliate says somthing I will switch him back - I always play fair - for all parties
[9/23/2009 6:28:58 PM] Bruno: so does that mean i have to create new trackers
[9/23/2009 6:28:59 PM] Bruno: ?
[9/23/2009 6:29:16 PM] Bruno: i have a big swedish player that is going to deposit this week
[9/23/2009 6:29:19 PM] Bruno: and play
[9/23/2009 6:29:27 PM] Bruno: along with his friends
[9/23/2009 6:29:40 PM] Bruno: the old tracker will not work right?
[9/23/2009 6:29:45 PM] David Visser: no I will send rake reports
[9/23/2009 6:29:49 PM] David Visser: yep
[9/23/2009 6:32:45 PM] David Visser: you will see all the players by tomorrow - when we regenerate - ok I think we have everything on track
[9/23/2009 6:33:02 PM] Bruno: Did you get my email
[9/23/2009 6:33:07 PM] David Visser: sorry it took so long - just needed to navigate the red tape
[9/23/2009 6:33:08 PM] Bruno: on the bonus?
[9/23/2009 6:33:33 PM] David Visser: yep - I will reply today
[9/23/2009 6:33:47 PM] Bruno: for the future
[9/23/2009 6:33:52 PM] Bruno: if you are busy
[9/23/2009 6:33:56 PM] David Visser: just need to refreash my brain
[9/23/2009 6:33:58 PM] Bruno: is tom able to add bonus
[9/23/2009 6:34:01 PM] Bruno: or only you?
[9/23/2009 6:34:02 PM] David Visser: no
[9/23/2009 6:34:11 PM] David Visser: yes
[9/23/2009 6:35:03 PM] Bruno: ok so you only
[9/23/2009 6:35:14 PM] Bruno: What about gross deal?
[9/23/2009 6:35:33 PM] Bruno: I have some big affiliates looking for gross deals
[9/23/2009 6:35:36 PM] David Visser: you mean flat account
[9/23/2009 6:35:52 PM] Bruno: yeah gross rev share
[9/23/2009 6:35:53 PM] Bruno: %
[9/23/2009 6:36:16 PM] Bruno: so they pay the bonus and races
[9/23/2009 6:39:28 PM] David Visser: do you have an idea of the amount of rev?
[9/23/2009 6:39:41 PM] Bruno: i have several
[9/23/2009 6:39:48 PM] Bruno: ranging from 30k per month
[9/23/2009 6:39:53 PM] Bruno: to 120k
[9/23/2009 6:40:22 PM] Bruno: 60-65%
[9/23/2009 6:41:03 PM] David Visser: wow - just this is a risky venture - I set them up on a 1 on 1 basis
[9/23/2009 6:41:25 PM] Bruno: risky if they dont rake much
[9/23/2009 6:41:28 PM] Bruno:
[9/23/2009 6:41:48 PM] Bruno: I mean if i get a big affiliate
[9/23/2009 6:41:49 PM] David Visser: yes that is correct
[9/23/2009 6:41:55 PM] Bruno: looking for gross deal
[9/23/2009 6:42:03 PM] Bruno: and lets say you can arrange this
[9/23/2009 6:42:08 PM] Bruno: based on performance
[9/23/2009 6:43:29 PM] David Visser: I will set them up under you - but they have to keep everything on the downlow

[9/29/2009 2:00:35 PM] David Visser: just the man I need to talk to
[9/29/2009 2:00:50 PM] Bruno: hey david
[9/29/2009 2:02:14 PM] David Visser: you wanted a full flat account right?
[9/29/2009 2:03:08 PM] Bruno: what do you mean?
[9/29/2009 2:03:15 PM] David Visser: the only reason I ask is your have 1400 in bonuses
[9/29/2009 2:03:34 PM] David Visser: you want a no bonus account
[9/29/2009 2:03:51 PM] Bruno: yeah but we agreed on x8 unlimited
[9/29/2009 2:03:57 PM] Bruno: the bonus are not being given to players
[9/29/2009 2:04:03 PM] David Visser: oh ok that is what I thought
[9/29/2009 2:04:38 PM] David Visser: so a reg account - fyi if you have heads up players let me know and I will set up a flat account to
[9/29/2009 2:04:57 PM] Bruno: ok
[9/29/2009 2:05:06 PM] Bruno: how are we going to deal with the following players
[9/29/2009 2:05:15 PM] Bruno: that havent received the bonus?
[9/29/2009 2:05:25 PM] David Visser: (y) - sorry for the delay again we are updating our affiliate back end and it will be very sharp
[9/29/2009 2:05:42 PM] Bruno: no problem adrian told me yesterday
[9/29/2009 2:05:49 PM] David Visser: they all have - but I have them set up on 8x
[9/29/2009 2:06:03 PM] Bruno: i was just looking for a print screen to calculate
[9/29/2009 2:06:06 PM] Bruno: the %
[9/29/2009 2:07:02 PM] David Visser: yea Adrian is sending it to you now
[9/29/2009 2:07:54 PM] Bruno: what do i tell my main player
[9/29/2009 2:08:02 PM] Bruno: that has been complaing about the bonus
[9/29/2009 2:08:07 PM] Bruno: will the amount be sent to his account
[9/29/2009 2:08:15 PM] Bruno: or i will have to credit him?
[9/29/2009 2:16:01 PM] David Visser: no I have that covered
[9/29/2009 2:16:23 PM] David Visser: the bonuses will be in his account

I guess Tower Gaming received direct 30k fine from Ongame so now they fail to pay affiliates.

Here is my conversation with Ongame Managerand let me know if you need to see the print screens which i have already sent to Ongame so you can see how Tower is lying.

[11/20/2009 1:55:39 PM] Carina Engstrm: they are saying that they will pay you here
[11/20/2009 1:56:05 PM] Bruno: I heard this story since sept
[11/20/2009 1:56:23 PM] Bruno: Now that i contact them via email
[11/20/2009 1:56:34 PM] Bruno: to get a date when the payment is going to be processed
[11/20/2009 1:56:38 PM] Bruno: i get no reply
[11/20/2009 1:58:52 PM] Carina Engstrm: im sorry to hear that. As you know we are sending warnings to partners when aff. are giving rakeback to their partners. If they have found out that this is the case it is probably why they do not wanna pay
[11/20/2009 1:59:40 PM] Carina Engstrm: as you understand we will not encourage partners to pay our RB money to your players
[11/20/2009 2:00:18 PM] Bruno: I am talking about the commission
[11/20/2009 2:00:24 PM] Bruno: which he promised me
[11/20/2009 2:00:25 PM] Carina Engstrm: i can see that they are just lying about a fee and that we are blacklisting, which is not the case at all
[11/20/2009 2:00:34 PM] Bruno: Yeah i know
[11/20/2009 2:00:39 PM] Bruno: how can i be blacklisted
[11/20/2009 2:00:46 PM] Bruno: when i wasnt even an affiliate
[11/20/2009 2:00:58 PM] Bruno: and now they made up some lie about rakeback
[11/20/2009 2:01:02 PM | Edited 2:01:11 PM] Carina Engstrm: we have not blacklisted anyone
[11/20/2009 2:01:10 PM] Bruno: yeah i know
[11/20/2009 2:01:24 PM] Carina Engstrm: this is totally on tower
[11/20/2009 2:01:35 PM] Bruno: This David Visser is a coward, thats his way to avoid confrontation
[11/20/2009 2:01:48 PM] Bruno: put the blame that i am blacklisted
[11/20/2009 2:01:56 PM] Carina Engstrm: that is a lie
[11/20/2009 2:02:15 PM] Bruno: Can you ask them when they will pay me
[11/20/2009 2:02:25 PM] Bruno: They are not replying to me
[11/20/2009 2:03:50 PM] Carina Engstrm: we will bring this up with them yes
[11/20/2009 2:06:12 PM] Bruno: thanks alot carina
[11/20/2009 2:06:34 PM] Bruno: I also sent you print screens how this guy is lying

So as a matter of fact I was never warned, the truth is that my account was closed and the same day i received the following email from them

Bruno

After going over your account we were hoping to pay out your commissions. But due to Ongame and Ongame policies, it has come to our attention that you are paying rakeback to your players. Ongame has informed us that you are a black listed affiliate on the Network. We would like to pay out the commissions on your account, but we do not have your account payment details.

Keep in mind this will be the last time Toweraffiliates will pay your account. Please do not promote Towergaming at anytime.

Tower Affiliate Team


SO YOU TELL ME HOW IS THE SITUATION RESOLVED WHEN YOU SEND A email saying you will pay the affiliate and you never do??????????

After all of this, these people have the courage to write you the following email, when their director of affiliates proposed you the deal. This all occured, because the bonus that he offered was never added to the player, so after the months the player started to contact me about his bonus and payments and according to Mr David Visser everything was taking care of . THESE PEOPLE ARE A BUNCH OF SCAMMERS. i will post the email that he sent me.


Bruno

After going over your account we were hoping to pay out your commissions. But due to Ongame and Ongame policies, it has come to our attention that you are paying rakeback to your players. Ongame has informed us that you are a black listed affiliate on the Network. We would like to pay out the commissions on your account, but we do not have your account payment details.

Keep in mind this will be the last time Toweraffiliates will pay your account. Please do not promote Towergaming at anytime.

Tower Affiliate Team

 

[vinylweatherman]

Some dirty dealings, but on BOTH sides

This is the problem with "under the counter" deals, it is easy for the party holding all the Aces (no pun intended) to later renege on the agreement once they have obtained what they wanted from it, and leave the other party aggrieved, and seemingly with no way to dispute the claim.

This David Visser was operating "off the record", seemingly in an attempt to offer deals he was not authorised to offer. When it turned sour on him, he had to cover his own a$$, and the lack of "paperwork" made it easy for him to pretend such deals were never made. For continuing to press the case, he starts inventing excuses, and ends up intending not to pay, but making it out to be the affiliate's fault. The affiliate has probably broken the network terms, with the initial agreement of David Visser, but is in a tricky position when it comes to pursuing the complaint through the network, since the claim is for the proceeds due on an "illegal" deal.

It's not too dissimilar to those "too good to be true" bonus offers made to players, who later find they don't get paid because there is one excuse after another as to why the deal didn't exist, or had different terms applying to it than were published at the time (and later conveniently removed from the website).

 

[multirake]

Offcourse he had to cover his own A$$$$$$, its a 30k fine from the network, but what i want everyone to know is that this guy David Visser is the director of Tower Gaming. The reason this occured was because the bonus was never added to my players account and when you delay the payments for over 3 months, you players start to question your motives. So he contacted them, and they said the deal was never made, although we can all see what this trusty affiliate director David Visser offered.

At one point these people need to be held accountable. I know the network rules, but i know alot of affiliates having rb deals in the network and if they file for approval they can get a grant for different sites.


To me this is a total scam and at the end of the day you cant just promise a deal, not do your job and to save your backend make complete lies.


This company is a joke people, stay far away from them, I feel really bad for my player who raked over 15k.

 

[dominique]

Ah for crying out loud, now you have moved this vendetta over here!

The fact is that you promoted rakeback for them when this is not allowed and got caught, thus making everything null and void.

 

[multirake]

Thank you for the support Dominique, i guess since you are on their paybook its more likely for you to block threads on your side, i just want people to see the shady side.

PS. i did not get caught promoting rakeback, if i did where is the proof i have posted and also sent the information. What proof have they shown, nothing because i guess the monthly fee you get paid is good enough to erase and take their word 100%

Dominique,


You closed my post at your site, since you guys promote them. If you dont like my post, dont login and dont comment.

Vendetta? They had me open 2 accounts and they offered me the deal, if someone didnt pay you, i am sure you would be in the forum.

2) they said they were going to pay me after they closed my account, which they havent.

I am not on a vendetta, its a mission now.

 

[dominique]

It has absolutely nothing to do with promoting them - and yes, I do list them on my site.

It has to do with you putting other affiliates at a disadvantage by offering rakeback when it is not allowed. That puts honest people at a disadvantage. I do not approve of that. It's shady, and I am not a friend of shady dealings in this industry.

And while you are on a posting frenzy, can you explain your involvement with Stryyke please?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Its my MISSION now to expose them, i already contacted their Network, so i am sure they got a 30k fine since David Visser the Director of Affiliates, offered an illegal deal.
Now i just want to warn the others of how they deal. If you dont like the blog, no need to comment, let the others see for themselves

One which YOU were happy to accept by your own admission in those chat logs you posted. In particular, where you arranged for David to STEAL a player from their original affiliate, and allocate him to your account, but that he would have to "play fair", and hand him back were this other affiliate to notice.
You must already have known that David was "shady", and it was unwise to assume he would screw over this other affiliate, yet NOT screw YOU over.

Exposure is probably your only way to fight this battle, hoping that David will settle with you rather than risk fighting on, and exposing even MORE of his shady dealings. You are unlikely to be the ONLY one he has offered such deals to, you have just fallen out of favour. Maybe YOU are being screwed over because David is doing an even dirtier deal with someone else, just like this other affiliate was going to get screwed over by his player being moved over to your account.

You have got each other by the b***s, so it's down to a squeezing contest

 

[multirake]

Tower Gaming is listed in several rakeback sites!!!!!!!!!!!!

So i guess all the affiliates which promote them via rb site are at disadvantage.

Once again you are promoting them and without any proof from the site, you decide the case is closed. I have sent you several attachements so you can see for yourself that the case is not closed.


I used to be affiliate and poker manager, so when it comes to deals, i do believe you should be a man of your word. I never posted any rakeback deals or got caught in the process, i got tired of hearing your payment has been processed and your players bonus was placed, when its all a lie and i contacted their network, with all the print screens i have.

 

[dominique]

And while you are on a posting frenzy, can you explain your involvement with Stryyke please?

I repeat the question.

 

[multirake]

I used to be affiliate and poker manager

What does my previous job have to do with not getting affiliate payment?

 

[dominique]

It has to do with your overall ethics.

 

[rikkerbuddy]

Hmmmmm

I have personally met David at affiliate conferences and I have always had great dealings with him even tho I am more focused on casino now then poker. I know he has been with tower along time and I only hear great things about the program. I don't know but what you are posting does not sit right with what I know.

Did you work for Stryyke? and if you did can you tell me how to get my $700 back

 

[dominique]

.

Did you work for Stryyke? and if you did can you tell me how to get my $700 back

Lots of people with that question....

 

[multirake]

Your site promotes them as well, I am sure you will be able to help him. I havent worked for them since June, hence the word " used to work"

It has to do with your overall ethics.

So why do you promote them? I guess its the monthly paychecks, so if everything is about $, where does the ethics come from?

 

[rikkerbuddy]

can you please pm

Your site promotes them as well, I am sure you will be able to help him. I havent worked for them since June, hence the word " used to work"

Please PM me I know a lot of players and affiliate that lost a ton of money b/c of Stryyke. I would like to get all the info you can give me so I can forward it to affiliates. I know I lost $700 in affiliate payments due to Bruno Parsons. So if you can give me his info or any owners I am sure a lot of people would appreciate it.:notworthy

 

[dominique]

So why do you promote them? I guess its the monthly paychecks, so if everything is about $, where does the ethics come from?

Promote who? I don't promote Stryyke, and Tower does well by players so they get a listing. Unfortunately since they are non-US there are no paychecks there either.

But I don't see what my site has to do with your being the pot calling the kettle black...

 

[multirake]

I know I lost $700 in affiliate payments due to Bruno Parsons. :notworthy

How is your affiliate payment my fault? I wasnt paid for 3 months as well, and i decided to quit my position.

I guess this must be somone from Tower Gaming. lol

Location= CANADA Offcourse you know David and he is a wonderful guy, either you are David or you work with him.

Promote who? I don't promote Stryyke, and Tower does well by players so they get a listing. Unfortunately since they are non-US there are no paychecks there either.

But I don't see what my site has to do with your being the pot calling the kettle black...

Stryyke is promoted under listed programs under your page!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dominique]

I never ever promoted Stryyke. Where are you getting this from?

 

[multirake]

I refer to you speaking of ethics. You promote the site and even though they dont pay people, i cant remember anybody asking for solutions, the only email i received was " there is a delay in payments, when is payments going to be process" from your company side. So if you want to discuss that, i guess we can go into details.

So i dont really see how you would try to help affiliates or players.

This posting is about me not being paid from TOWER GAMING, like i said you are bias " since part of your paycheck every month comes from TOWER GAMING"

So i can see why you would close threads on your site, so now i am on another site, which i dealt with them before and they actually contact the site to make enquires regarding payments.

I said you site promotes the Casino,

From all i know you are a moderator at the site. But once again, this has nothing to do with you

THIS IS ABOUT ME NOT GETTING PAID FROM TOWER GAMING

 

[dominique]

I don't think I have ever seen a check from Tower, and that isn't why they are listed. Like I said, they are listed because they do well by players by all accounts.

 

[rikkerbuddy]

wow

I don't work for tower or know were he works out of. I am sure there are many Canadians on this forum.
I did receive your PM thank you - but you did not give me your info? I know some Russian and Latvian affiliates who are my friends. And if you are bruno parsons you for months told me i would get my money that you had no money issues - you told me to keep promoting stryyke to my players when you kne they were going down the drain. all people have to do is plug in 2+2 your name and stryyke.
I really don't know what your deal is but if you promote RB on ongame you get closed down.

 

[dominique]

I said you site promotes the Casino,

From all i know you are a moderator at the site. But once again, this has nothing to do with you

THIS IS ABOUT ME NOT GETTING PAID FROM TOWER GAMING

Well, thank you, I am glad you see it has nothing to do with me.

The site - you mean CAP and not my site? Why didn't you just say so? We went around in circles here.

CAP is not my site, I am a volunteer moderator there.

GamesandCasino is my site and it does not carry Stryyke, and I am glad you see it's irrelevant anyways.

 

[multirake]

Great so now you guys do free media deals

I don't think I have ever seen a check from Tower, and that isn't why they are listed. Like I said, they are listed because they do well by players by all accounts.

thats interesting free media deals

 

[dominique]

I don't have a media deal with Tower. Or many of the places I list either.

If they pass inspection, they get listed. If they don't, they don't.

But I thought this had nothing to do with me?

I am going to call it a day, I have spoken my mind about this.

That Bruno Parsons from Stryyke would come crying foul for not being paid for stealing players from other affiliates and for promoting rakeback on a non-rakeback platform - there is enough irony in that to keep me for months.

That you expect support from other affiliates is even more amazing.

What do you think we are, complete fools?

And accusing Rikkerbuddy of working for Tower because he lives in Canada is pathetic.

 

[multirake]

They should get you for jacking threads lol. First you speak of ethics and you close my thread at CAP, ok i get it, They are promoted on the site and you want to keep everything hush hush.

Once again this is not about you or even me for that matter. I know i wont get the money to pay the player. At the end of the day, these poker companies make a killing, i know because i worked for them. So the affiliate promises the player a deal, some people play for fun and others play regular and this is a career. There has been too much of these scams happening. I had one player that raked over 15k.

So if you think its ok to do this , i guess you must be a tool, well atleast a well paid tool by Tower.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

I received over 3 emails of him telling me that the payment was processed.

This is ridiculous

 

[The Dude]

Admin warning: Exploiting the board

@multirake

1.11 - Please do not exploit this board to promote your own personal agenda. If the moderators (and members) feel that you are spamming the board with links or ad copy to your website, harassing members with agenda laden posts, or consistently ragging on a casino that did you wrong, etc., your account may be suspended.
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/help/

The moderators and I are having to spend time this morning cleaning up your mess - bumping/hijacking threads are violations of common forum etiquette - and you are exploiting the board for your personal vendetta.

Read the instructions on posting complaints please/ Further violations will result in a spanking. Thank you.

 

[vinylweatherman]

They should get you for jacking threads lol. First you speak of ethics and you close my thread at CAP, ok i get it, They are promoted on the site and you want to keep everything hush hush.

Once again this is not about you or even me for that matter. I know i wont get the money to pay the player. At the end of the day, these poker companies make a killing, i know because i worked for them. So the affiliate promises the player a deal, some people play for fun and others play regular and this is a career. There has been too much of these scams happening. I had one player that raked over 15k.

So if you think its ok to do this , i guess you must be a tool, well atleast a well paid tool by Tower.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

I received over 3 emails of him telling me that the payment was processed.

This is ridiculous

This whole issue shows the industry in a very bad light indeed. Even if you CAN promote with rakeback if you first get approval, this STILL disadvantages those affiliates who have NOT got approval for this, or even know such an "under the counter" deal could be available.

It also looks as though even these "approved" rakeback deals are being hidden from Ongame, who have a blanket policy of not allowing them.

This player who generated 15K, was this the same one you & David conspired to steal from another affiliate, provided it wasn't noticed?

NO honest affiliate is going to side with another who has knowingly accepted a deal whereby players are stolen from lesser affiliates, and put on his account.

If David Visser is offering such deals, and is a DIRECTOR of Tower Gaming, this IS a serious matter, but NOT for the reasons you think it is, but because he is offering "illegal" deals to favoured affiliates to the disadvantage of "regular" affiliates.

Ongame may have found out because you checked out some of David's lies with them, the ones about you being blacklisted.
Maybe when Ongame lit a fire under David's a$$ over this, he decided to screw YOU to save is own a$$, by saying he only recently found out you were promoting rakeback in the hope Ongame would believe this, and not levy a fine. In order to make this story credible, David cannot now just PAY you, or Ongame might ask why he paid an affiliate he has just discovered acting in breach of the terms.

You MAY get paid eventually to "go away", rather than continue to dig this issue over. David is likely to be more careful in future.

To pursue this further as a matter of "public interest" you will need PROOF that David was indeed behind these deals, AND that they were illegal under network rules. This would demonstrate to others that David is not a good person to deal with, and may even result in Ongame taking further action over this.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

On the plus side, you have CLEARLY never been an affiliate for the Virtual Casino Group

 

[Tengil]

Under the counter deals happen all the time. The only reason some networks dont like it is because their other clients complain. Usually this is circumvented with other types of affiliate promos.

And it makes total sense to treat affiliates differently. The big ones will always get better deals simply because they send more highraking players. A bit different than being a casino affiliate, a small site has a hard time competing against big ones.
What would you take? Just a bonus or bonus+RB+rakeraces and points to buy stuff in their store.

MG/Prima is also a non-RB network and still some players have up to 60% RB, and I know on which site.

On to this problem. It makes Tower and David Visser look really bad. They can expect a nice fine from Ongame. On iPoker they would probably have been kicked out.
Edit: they should just pay. Or should have already, now it will cost them much more.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Under the counter deals happen all the time. The only reason some networks dont like it is because their other clients complain. Usually this is circumvented with other types of affiliate promos.

And it makes total sense to treat affiliates differently. The big ones will always get better deals simply because they send more highraking players. A bit different than being a casino affiliate, a small site has a hard time competing against big ones.
What would you take? Just a bonus or bonus+RB+rakeraces and points to buy stuff in their store.

MG/Prima is also a non-RB network and still some players have up to 60% RB, and I know on which site.

On to this problem. It makes Tower and David Visser look really bad. They can expect a nice fine from Ongame. On iPoker they would have been kicked out.

There is a difference between a "better" deal and an "illegal" one. IF the network has a blanket policy of "no rakeback", it should apply to ALL affiliate accounts. Big affiliates who produce more for the skin can be offered a bigger commission, but this becomes unethical when these "illegal" deals freeze out the smaller affiliates who are simply NOT ALLOWED to compete for players on the same terms as the large ones. It implies that the ONLY way to become a big affiliate is to "play dirty", and in terms of US law, this would fall under "anti trust" legislation I believe, whilst here it would attract the attentions of the Competition Commission. Both sets of legislation adhere to the principle of a "level playing field" in inter-business competition for contracts, customers, and in this case, players.

Casino affiliates DO get a "better" deal for attracting more profitable play to the casino. Commission on hold increases on a sliding scale. For example, it might start at 20%, but increase to 35% for affiliates whose players generate several thousands of hold on a regular basis. The difference here is that this is OPENLY available to ALL affiliates, it formas part of the terms of the contract, and is NOT an "under the counter" deal negotiated with favoured affiliates.

There ARE however some programs that will offer some affiliates "special advertising deals" that they can use to attract players. This is again a disadvantage to those affiliates not favoured, but at least the program is not breaking it's OWN contract with it's network to offer such deals. The problem with this case is that this deal did not just disadvantage lesser affiliates, it was a breach of the contract between Tower Gaming and Ongame to even offer such a deal.
Just like fraudulent players/affiliates in the casino industry, it goes on, but there is little sympathy when those involved get "their fingers burned" when things turn sour.

 

[multirake]

This player who generated 15K, was this the same one you & David conspired to steal from another affiliate, provided it wasn't noticed?

NO honest affiliate is going to side with another who has knowingly accepted a deal whereby players are stolen from lesser affiliates, and put on his account.

If David Visser is offering such deals, and is a DIRECTOR of Tower Gaming, this IS a serious matter, but NOT for the reasons you think it is, but because he is offering "illegal" deals to favoured affiliates to the disadvantage of "regular" affiliates.

Ongame may have found out because you checked out some of David's lies with them, the ones about you being blacklisted.
Maybe when Ongame lit a fire under David's a$$ over this, he decided to screw YOU to save is own a$$, by saying he only recently found out you were promoting rakeback in the hope Ongame would believe this, and not levy a fine. In order to make this story credible, David cannot now just PAY you, or Ongame might ask why he paid an affiliate he has just discovered acting in breach of the terms.

You MAY get paid eventually to "go away", rather than continue to dig this issue over. David is likely to be more careful in future.

To pursue this further as a matter of "public interest" you will need PROOF that David was indeed behind these deals, AND that they were illegal under network rules. This would demonstrate to others that David is not a good person to deal with, and may even result in Ongame taking further action over this.

On the plus side, you have CLEARLY never been an affiliate for the Virtual Casino Group

Hey

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account


I have made a print screen of the chats we had and i have forward it to Ongame this is why the entire mood changed. Before i received an email saying that i was going to be paid, I think i been a pretty patient person.

I had back surgery and over a period of 3 months all those false promises never came true. My players didnt receive the bonus and payments were not processed and when you try to contact them, either offline or you never got a reply back over the email.

All the information that i have is recorded for proof, what really annoys me is that this guy after all of this had the courage to say i fabricated the material. After i sent all the information to his Network, i guess he was singing a different song.

Having worked in the industry, you learn that not all affiliates are treated the same. By this i mean the deals you offer them, most sites offer higher rev or cpa to affiliates that produce higher income for the site and i think its only natural.

A person with 1 player is not going to get a 60-70% gross deal. But at the end of the day, what happened to being a man of your word? This would never happen if the guy was simply doing his job.

I mean, all he had to do is be honest. I received over 4 emails that my payment was processed and that the player bonus situation was fixed. Only to find out its a lie .

I guess at one point, enough is enough.

 

[dominique]

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account

You stole and profited (or tried to) from another affiliate's work.

For that reason alone you should not be paid. Period.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

That should be the quote of the month, coming from the ex-Stryyke affiliate manager.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hey

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account

I have made a print screen of the chats we had and i have forward it to Ongame this is why the entire mood changed. Before i received an email saying that i was going to be paid, I think i been a pretty patient person.

I had back surgery and over a period of 3 months all those false promises never came true. My players didnt receive the bonus and payments were not processed and when you try to contact them, either offline or you never got a reply back over the email.

All the information that i have is recorded for proof, what really annoys me is that this guy after all of this had the courage to say i fabricated the material. After i sent all the information to his Network, i guess he was singing a different song.

Having worked in the industry, you learn that not all affiliates are treated the same. By this i mean the deals you offer them, most sites offer higher rev or cpa to affiliates that produce higher income for the site and i think its only natural.

A person with 1 player is not going to get a 60-70% gross deal. But at the end of the day, what happened to being a man of your word? This would never happen if the guy was simply doing his job.

I mean, all he had to do is be honest. I received over 4 emails that my payment was processed and that the player bonus situation was fixed. Only to find out its a lie .

I guess at one point, enough is enough.

FRAUD, nothing less. This other affiliate brought the player in to Tower Gaming, and David & yourself conspired to have him transferred to your account. This would be considered a CRIMINAL matter in some quarters, and certainly would provide enough grounds for a civil claim for damages.

The fact that David was prepared to do this should give advance warning about his ethics. He was quite prepared to screw over this other affiliate to steal what was probably his best player, and turn him over to you. The other affiliate probably suffered considerable loss, having a player of this calibre stolen from him. He probably didn't have the tools to notice the difference between this theft, and the player simply leaving of his own accord (unless, of course, he made regular contact with his players, in which case this deception may have come to light).

Now, for some reason, it has become in the best interests of David to screw YOU over. Now, he has this high calibre player, and is paying NO-ONE any commission. He accuses you of fabricating the information, since to do otherwise could be the end of his skin being on the Ongame network, or at the least a large fine being levied - he has a hell of a lot to lose by keeping to his word, and nothing really to gain, since you have already "grassed him up" to Ongame.

Naturally, PLAYERS will be reading all about this, and will AGAIN start to wonder about online poker, and whether "insiders" have stacked the deck against the "fish". This deal seems only to benefit players who find the right rakeback sites, but what about OTHER equally shady deals that might be going on, which may influence the fairness of the game itself, one example could be special "fast track" entry to tournaments, which happens anyway for the top players, but the worry might be that corruption has played a part in the process.

The big scandals, of which Absolute Poker was but one, have shown that the networks will DENY EVERYTHING, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that something is wrong. Any admission that something has indeed gone wrong has to be dragged out of them, and even then they try to make out it was some rogue element that they had no idea of, and no way to detect and stop.

 

[multirake]

You stole and profited (or tried to) from another affiliate's work.

For that reason alone you should not be paid. Period.



That should be the quote of the month, coming from the ex-Stryyke affiliate manager.

Dominique,

We all know you get paid from Tower, thank you for your support. If you read the message posted, you will see that i asked David to track the player because he was tracked to another affiliate by mistake.

This goes to prove you are the biggest tool in the forum. I already said previously that i know they wont pay. They got a fine from the network and now they are trying to hide all the scams.

I would think if someone had prove they would actually show them. Instead they asked you to hush the entire situation by closing the post and stating that the matter was resolved. If you have any prove that the matter was resolved it would be nice for you to post something useful.

The player that complained about his rake ( over 15k) was not the player that dave changed to my account.

FRAUD, nothing less. This other affiliate brought the player in to Tower Gaming, and David & yourself conspired to have him transferred to your account. This would be considered a CRIMINAL matter in some quarters, and certainly would provide enough grounds for a civil claim for damages.

The fact that David was prepared to do this should give advance warning about his ethics. He was quite prepared to screw over this other affiliate to steal what was probably his best player, and turn him over to you. The other affiliate probably suffered considerable loss, having a player of this calibre stolen from him. He probably didn't have the tools to notice the difference between this theft, and the player simply leaving of his own accord (unless, of course, he made regular contact with his players, in which case this deception may have come to light).

Now, for some reason, it has become in the best interests of David to screw YOU over. Now, he has this high calibre player, and is paying NO-ONE any commission. He accuses you of fabricating the information, since to do otherwise could be the end of his skin being on the Ongame network, or at the least a large fine being levied - he has a hell of a lot to lose by keeping to his word, and nothing really to gain, since you have already "grassed him up" to Ongame.

Naturally, PLAYERS will be reading all about this, and will AGAIN start to wonder about online poker, and whether "insiders" have stacked the deck against the "fish". This deal seems only to benefit players who find the right rakeback sites, but what about OTHER equally shady deals that might be going on, which may influence the fairness of the game itself, one example could be special "fast track" entry to tournaments, which happens anyway for the top players, but the worry might be that corruption has played a part in the process.

The big scandals, of which Absolute Poker was but one, have shown that the networks will DENY EVERYTHING, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that something is wrong. Any admission that something has indeed gone wrong has to be dragged out of them, and even then they try to make out it was some rogue element that they had no idea of, and no way to detect and stop.

Hey vinylweatherman,

there is one thing you got mixed up, the player that david visser changed into my account was not the player that raked over 15k. I acquired a player via a forum, and when the player contacted me regarding his bonus, i contacted Tower to add a bonus into his account. From that contact i learned that the player was tracked to another affiliate by mistake. I have the email of the players information and his request.

I agree with you, on the matter of him having alot to lose due to me contacting his network. At the end of the day, for me the main concerns is to assist your players, for a period over 3 months nothing really came true of the promises and deals which we had. The only thing i got out of it was-
lies " you are a blacklisted affiliate" " you promoted rake". Thats very easy to say to try to cover up the story.

To me the main problem is this- we all know that the best deals for you to get is via small sites, since they look to have you promote them and they tend to offer you a deal. Personally before this happened, i felt that Tower was a pretty good poker room, did my research, never saw any problems with payments etc. Only to find out that this happened, alot of people complain about the larger sites, giving bad deals, but rest assure for me i rather be safe and have a smaller incentive, than being ripped off and scammed by David Visser and TOWER GAMING

Offcourse the networks will try to deny, most of them are placed in the stock market and they have alot to lose. Plus when something unethical pops up, you will see that you never get any replies or answers to your questions, thats their way to cover up or not blow the situation any bigger.

Having worked for a bad company before, there is alot of dark and bad things that happen in this industry. Probably not much will be resolved and personally i think the only way for things to get exposed is via the forums.

 

[dominique]

The player was not credited to the other affiliate by mistake. He was credited to the rightful affiliate because he did not do what you told him to do in order to avoid being credited correctly - he didn't clear out the cookies from the rightful affiliate. Maybe you forgot to tell him to, or maybe he forgot, or perhaps the player had a sense of fairness. I would assume the latter. Some people don't think theft is ok, you know.

[9/23/2009 6:25:35 PM] David Visser: ok - how did he come through that affiliate?
[9/23/2009 6:25:46 PM] David Visser: did he not clear cookies?

You schemed to steal another affiliate's rightfully earned income. I have zero tolerance for that. I know it is done every day by a number of people, but when it comes to my attention I will not sit still and watch it quietly. It is wrong to steal.

I have already stated clearly that I have never received a penny from Tower, and I am not here defending what Tower did. I am defending affiliates at large against theft. If Tower facilitated this, then you both deserve each other.

I closed your thread because I will not be an accessory to your theft, I do NOT want you to get paid for stealing. Additionally, you were spamming the forum with duplicate posts and threads.

Any affiliate supporting you in stealing from their peers would be a fool. It may be common place in the company you keep, but it is not tolerated in the company I keep.

Add in the shenanigans that happened at Stryyke while you worked there, and your role in encouraging affiliates to continue to invest in a sinking ship, resulting in many, many people losing their income, and I think your character is not exactly conducive to rallying the help of other affiliates.

 

[multirake]

The player was not credited to the other affiliate by mistake. He was credited to the rightful affiliate because he did not do what you told him to do in order to avoid being credited correctly - he didn't clear out the cookies from the rightful affiliate. Maybe you forgot to tell him to, or maybe he forgot, or perhaps the player had a sense of fairness. I would assume the latter. Some people don't think theft is ok, you know.



You schemed to steal another affiliate's rightfully earned income. I have zero tolerance for that. I know it is done every day by a number of people, but when it comes to my attention I will not sit still and watch it quietly. It is wrong to steal.

I have already stated clearly that I have never received a penny from Tower, and I am not here defending what Tower did. I am defending affiliates at large against theft. If Tower facilitated this, then you both deserve each other.

I closed your thread because I will not be an accessory to your theft, I do NOT want you to get paid for stealing. Additionally, you were spamming the forum with duplicate posts and threads.

Any affiliate supporting you in stealing from their peers would be a fool. It may be common place in the company you keep, but it is not tolerated in the company I keep.

Add in the shenanigans that happened at Stryyke while you worked there, and your role in encouraging affiliates to continue to invest in a sinking ship, resulting in many, many people losing their income, and I think your character is not exactly conducive to rallying the help of other affiliates.

Actually you closed my thread because you thought the situation was RESOLVED.

As far as stealing, i never stole any player. I passed the player the bonus code which i was given. Second of all i never encouraged any affiliates to invest in a sinking ship and i have assisted my players and affiliates to recover their money.

 

[dominique]

Let's not tippy-toe around this.

You gave your bonus code to a player that was tagged to another affiliate. That is good and fine, it's good for the player and I have done it many times.

But when you realized that this player was still tagged where he belonged after he played his coupon, you went and asked to have him changed over to your tag. That is the point where it becomes theft.

Not to mention the right of the player to determine his/her own choice of sites s/he wants to support.

These backroom deals violate ethics, and hurt affiliates and players alike.

 

[multirake]

Let's not tippy-toe around this.

You gave your bonus code to a player that was tagged to another affiliate. That is good and fine, it's good for the player and I have done it many times.

But when you realized that this player was still tagged where he belonged after he played his coupon, you went and asked to have him changed over to your tag. That is the point where it becomes theft.

Not to mention the right of the player to determine his/her own choice of sites s/he wants to support.

These backroom deals violate ethics, and hurt affiliates and players alike.

I asked why the player was not tracked to my account, since according to the player he didnt have an affiliate.

So where do you see that this act is theft of anykind?

I think its only normal procedure that all affiliates do when the player is not tracked to their account

 

[multirake]

Dominique,

You continue with these "back deals" hurt affiliates.

This is poker, its not a utopia. So you really believe that all sites play fair and give identical deals to all affiliates.

Plus not to mention that Tower Gaming is listed in several rakeback site.

The point of this is for all to see the shady stuff, the guy asked me to create another account, delayed my payments and tried to lie that i was a blacklisted affiliate.

Tomorrow i will post more evidence on the chats.

 

[dominique]

Dominique,


This is poker, its not a utopia. So you really believe that all sites play fair and give identical deals to all affiliates.

No, I don't believe that. And that is my point exactly.

Anyway, I'm tired of running around in circles. People like you are the reason why I, along with a lot of other respectable affiliates, do not attempt to monetize poker. I provide playing guides and tips and such as a service to my visitors, beyond that I give it no time.

If I make no money with it, I don't have the aggravation of being stolen from.

 

[The Dude]

Admin Warning: flaming

...
This goes to prove you are the biggest tool in the forum...

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

Okay - that's strike two. One more transgression and yer outta here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I asked why the player was not tracked to my account, since according to the player he didnt have an affiliate.

So where do you see that this act is theft of anykind?

I think its only normal procedure that all affiliates do when the player is not tracked to their account

Seeing theft of some kind.........

[9/23/2009 6:25:35 PM] David Visser: ok - how did he come through that affiliate?
[9/23/2009 6:25:46 PM] David Visser: did he not clear cookies?
[9/23/2009 6:25:57 PM] Bruno: I am not sure
[9/23/2009 6:26:04 PM] Bruno: he has been playing for 1-2 months
[9/23/2009 6:26:12 PM] Bruno: and his bonus was finished
[9/23/2009 6:26:15 PM] Bruno: i contacted tom
[9/23/2009 6:26:20 PM] Bruno: he said to contact you
[9/23/2009 6:26:24 PM] Bruno: since you deal with bonuses
[9/23/2009 6:26:31 PM] Bruno: and he said the player is not tracked to me
[9/23/2009 6:27:19 PM] David Visser: ok switched - but if that affiliate says somthing I will switch him back - I always play fair - for all parties

 

[Kane1910]

They cheated me too. They didn't honor our deal. (about 1500$ I lost to that cheaters.... ) If you want to sponsor a scam play in Tower Gaming with pleasure....
They didn't pay me what they should because ............... I had too good conditions in past !!!
+ I lost much health (priceless) due to that f&^&%^&g P5 software
+ money which I lost due to many bugs - especially PopUp Table On Action
function which somehow deactivated every day - and money which I lost when I
not play good because I was displayable from balance by that software (in
total it was hundred of dollars).
I propably should leave Ongame just after they introduced “outstanding” P5 software but as a loyal player I tortured there many months until I finally told STOP months ago. And from few months I even can’t open new Cake software (it is standard problem with Windows XP in Cake).
"Thanks" to that loyalty when I lost extremely much health and many dollars they additionally cheated me for about next 1500$....
I even asked only about part money from that deal - they refused few times!!!!
If somebody could help me?? Please...