Winning or losing player poll

[Mosse]

Would be interesting to know that are forum members winners or losers if we take lifetime-gambling history ? So lets make a poll for it (at least I try to make one).
Ill take the first vote and choose "winning player". Ive won 6-figures of money on my total gambling history.

 

[satchnz]

Given gambling is designed to make you lose over the long run, I’d expect the only people who would fit the “winning player” category would be those who have either just started gambling, or have had a once in a lifetime large win. But it will be interesting to see how many others fit into the winning player category.

I’m quite lucky when it comes to slots but I’m definitely down.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I know one who might still be up: @SYPlayer95

 

[SYPlayer95]

I know one who might still be up: @SYPlayer95

I'm up on L&L yeah, about 20k.
Up about 13k on Gamesys (Bally).

Do i still have that cash - no, spent it.

 

[SYPlayer95]

Given gambling is designed to make you lose over the long run, I’d expect the only people who would fit the “winning player” category would be those who have either just started gambling, or have had a once in a lifetime large win. But it will be interesting to see how many others fit into the winning player category.

I’m quite lucky when it comes to slots but I’m definitely down.

I play UK land based slots as well. Would definitely be classed as an advantage player.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I play UK land based slots as well. Would definitely be classed as an advantage player.

yeah i should close your account actually hahahha

 

[SYPlayer95]

yeah i should close your account actually hahahha

As long as you give me a leaving bonus.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I've stopped keeping track but I'm definitely down on slots which is to be expected after over 10 years of playing.

Sports I'm up but I don't think it fully covers slots losses.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

Would be interesting to know that are forum members winners or losers if we take lifetime-gambling history ? So lets make a poll for it (at least I try to make one).
Ill take the first vote and choose "winning player". Ive won 6-figures of money on my total gambling history.

My net profit is seven figures with hundreds of millions wagered, and I've almost never played just for fun

How did you manage that? Finland seems like a good location for those results

 

[Mosse]

Very tight game selection cause I only play slots. I never deposit without some extra (bonusmoney, freespins etc) with my deposit. And deposit bonuses must be good. And of course this means hundreds and hundreds of casinos I have played during last decade. Last 12 years have been winning years with best year total win that was about 82k€.
So simple

 

[Mosse]

But also have to add that its getting more and more difficult to get any more winning years because this RTP- downgrading spreading everywhere. Its getting harder every day to find those original 96%+ slots that must be found if you want to win something

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

Very tight game selection cause I only play slots. I never deposit without some extra (bonusmoney, freespins etc) with my deposit. And deposit bonuses must be good. And of course this means hundreds and hundreds of casinos I have played during last decade. Last 12 years have been winning years with best year total win that was about 82k€.
So simple

That's seriously impressive. Do you keep stats on how many bonuses total, total amounts, and so on? How many casinos? Any confiscations?

Most important question though - all from one account?

P.S. Max bet + high volatility > RTP when you're bonus hunting for max EV.

 

[Mosse]

No, i have no stats for my history. But is A LOT of rounds (+bonuses etc) during all these years! And of course it has taken very very much time.

One account only of course

 

[mulven]

No, i have no stats for my history. But is A LOT of rounds (+bonuses etc) during all these years! And of course it has taken very very much time.

One account only of course

I do wish more people would take good bonuses (many are scared), read the bonus rules and play them as it will help their lifetime +- stats. It is frustrating to get a win and lose it through wagering, though.

Too many people either avoid bonuses because they think the trap of wagering is a losing gambit OR take bonuses without reading through the terms and inevitably break them and lose their winnings.

 

[kuff13]

Would be interesting to know what would you consider a good deposit bonus. 200% or even more?
But it is really impressive that you have managed to keep to your strategy and be profitable in the long run.

 

[SCATT3R]

Max bet + high volatility > RTP when you're bonus hunting for max EV.

I see this statement a lot. Well, not a lot but I know @mulven 's said it a few times, and now you. In this poll here, I admitted to 'Losing Player' - no question about it, I might add - so I'm not here to question your calculations, but I am asking out of curiousity and I'm very open to learning a few tricks.

I'm sure this statement can be true in theory, but exactly how would it work in practice? In IRL?

In my experience, most deposit bonuses are, at best, up to about 300, and they'll be 100% of your deposit. Let's use 'Up to 500' for the sake of the example, giving you a starting balance of 1,000 on each attempt to beat the bonus, and a max bet of 5 (200x).

If you play a high volatility slot with 200x worth of balance, obviously you will bust out before long, not only most of the time, but damn near every single time.

If you, against the odds, were to hit something massive - say, a 5,000x, you would still have to defeat in most cases 40x the bonus amount (20,000) and you would not be allowed to drastically change tactics lest your win would be annulled due to some vague casino protection term buried somewhere in the mile-long bonus rules. You'd be forced to keep playing the same type of slot, at a 3 bet minimum (just over half) for the remainder of the wagering.

In my experience, playing much, much lower bets, you need at least 3 really good hits of a 1,000x + as well as the slots generally performing favourable to beat a 40x wagering. In other words, you need them to perform against their nature. I have beaten a lot of bonuses - to my great satisfaction - but only because my low stakes have allowed me to sit through the inevitable long spells of dead spins. Playing on max bet, you don't really have the time to sit through them and will be forced to redeposit much sooner, much more often?

How many times, on a realistic bank roll, will completing this venture be achievable? My guess: Not many!

 

[mulven]

I see this statement a lot. Well, not a lot but I know @mulven 's said it a few times, and now you. In this poll here, I admitted to 'Losing Player' - no question about it, I might add - so I'm not here to question your calculations, but I am asking out of curiousity and I'm very open to learning a few tricks.

I'm sure this statement can be true in theory, but exactly how would it work in practice? In IRL?

In my experience, most deposit bonuses are, at best, up to about 300, and they'll be 100% of your deposit. Let's use 'Up to 500' for the sake of the example, giving you a starting balance of 1,000 on each attempt to beat the bonus, and a max bet of 5 (200x).

If you play a high volatility slot with 200x worth of balance, obviously you will bust out before long, not only most of the time, but damn near every single time.

If you, against the odds, were to hit something massive - say, a 5,000x, you would still have to defeat in most cases 40x the bonus amount (20,000) and you would not be allowed to drastically change tactics lest your win would be annulled due to some vague casino protection term buried somewhere in the mile-long bonus rules. You'd be forced to keep playing the same type of slot, at a 30 bet minimum (just over half) for the remainder of the wagering.

In my experience, playing much, much lower bets, you need at least 3 really good hits of a 1,000x + as well as the slots generally performing favourable to beat a 40x wagering. In other words, you need them to perform against their nature. I have beaten a lot of bonuses - to my great satisfaction - but only because my low stakes have allowed me to sit through the inevitable long spells of dead spins. Playing on max bet, you don't really have the time to sit through them and will be forced to redeposit much sooner, much more often?

How many times, on a realistic bank roll, will completing this venture be achievable? My guess: Not many!

So the bottom line is exposure to edge. A casino bonus will have a certain amount of latent value and its up to us to extract that. The most optimal way to do that is to minimise your exposure to the houses edge and maximise the deviation when you do win.

Playing high volatility strategy increases your bust rate (reduces wagering/exposure) whilst increasing the size of your wins (deviation).

When you bust 80-90% of the time, most of those are only exposed to a fraction of the full wagering so the house edge didn't get that much from you on the busts and only contribute the full exposure on the 10-20% you win. The higher those wins are the higher the value will be when you combine the two outcomes and percentages (80%*-500, 20%*average win)

If you play low bets and are able to survive more often you get exposed to more house edge for far less reward. Bigger Reward and minimal house edge is the key to value. There are offers such as very low caps where you would want to minimise busts to the point it essentially turns the offer into post wager so at that point the only important thing is the RTP of the game you are playing.

The RTP being not as important as overall volatility comes from the same exposure concept. You would obviously want that to be as high as possible while optimising volatility, though.

@Casinos Hate Winners didn't give the advice for optimal bankroll management, just optimal EV. If I didn't have access to six figures of funds, then I would not go as optimally volatile and find a balance between sacrificing EV and increasing cashout rate. There are lots of casinos that have 10b or 10d caps these days and these can be nice to level out results when you are playing alot of uncapped offers optimally.

When it comes to a realistic bankroll, the amount of "play time" you'll get on this specific kind of strategy will be a fraction of normal if you were to have the same weekly budget since we see increasing the % of bustouts as a good thing. You'd be looking to see the EV realised over the entire year rather than weeks or months if you are unable to play that many bonuses.

As with all things, there is a sweet spot to volatility and EV extraction that will fit all sorts of bankrolls and thats just something you need to find. When you are limited 5 max bet, alot of it is about choosing your level of volatility through game selection. If you played medium volatility all the time you'd still be able to get decent EV whilst doubling the amount of cashouts you get for example.

Best thing people can do is go from min stakes to at least 1 or 2 units (scale for other currencies) as this is what is doing the largest bit of damage to their profitability due to how little you bust and as a result how much more your cumulative play is exposed to the house edge. With that said, those who just enjoy playing slots and want to play minimum stake can still benefit from bonuses as most bonus terms put them in a better position than if they were to play with cash only, although some specific bonuses played inoptimally can lead to worse results than playing with cash alone.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

Would be interesting to know what would you consider a good deposit bonus. 200% or even more?
But it is really impressive that you have managed to keep to your strategy and be profitable in the long run.

Any bonus with no max cashout limit, and only at casinos where I'm confident they'll actually pay out.Once I cleared about a thousand 25% bonuses. They were added automatically to every deposit. Another time I cleared several hundred 15% bonuses. But those are exceptional cases where you need to know exactly what you're doing.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I see this statement a lot. Well, not a lot but I know @mulven 's said it a few times, and now you. In this poll here, I admitted to 'Losing Player' - no question about it, I might add - so I'm not here to question your calculations, but I am asking out of curiousity and I'm very open to learning a few tricks.

I'm sure this statement can be true in theory, but exactly how would it work in practice? In IRL?

In my experience, most deposit bonuses are, at best, up to about 300, and they'll be 100% of your deposit. Let's use 'Up to 500' for the sake of the example, giving you a starting balance of 1,000 on each attempt to beat the bonus, and a max bet of 5 (200x).

If you play a high volatility slot with 200x worth of balance, obviously you will bust out before long, not only most of the time, but damn near every single time.

If you, against the odds, were to hit something massive - say, a 5,000x, you would still have to defeat in most cases 40x the bonus amount (20,000) and you would not be allowed to drastically change tactics lest your win would be annulled due to some vague casino protection term buried somewhere in the mile-long bonus rules. You'd be forced to keep playing the same type of slot, at a 3 bet minimum (just over half) for the remainder of the wagering.

In my experience, playing much, much lower bets, you need at least 3 really good hits of a 1,000x + as well as the slots generally performing favourable to beat a 40x wagering. In other words, you need them to perform against their nature. I have beaten a lot of bonuses - to my great satisfaction - but only because my low stakes have allowed me to sit through the inevitable long spells of dead spins. Playing on max bet, you don't really have the time to sit through them and will be forced to redeposit much sooner, much more often?

How many times, on a realistic bank roll, will completing this venture be achievable? My guess: Not many!

Bonus: $100
Deposit: $100
Wagering requirement: 40x on bonus
Playing The Dog House at $5 per spin, you'll hit $2,244+ in 8% of cases. That's equivalent to 70% ROI.
Here's how your winnings will be distributed.