Resolved 21 Grand Casino

[ralph7797]

Hi all,

I’m new to the forum and wanted to share my experience about 21 Grand Casino slow paying

I made an initial withdrawal request of £145 on 8 September through Click and Buy. They replied a week later asking for documents and photocopies of cards. On 25 September my documents were accepted and I was promised that my pending cashouts would be processed shortly. Two weeks later and I had still not received any money. I entered the support chat and ‘Elie’ said that I would “ get [my] money very soon today or tomorrow”. That promise was made on 10 October. On the 11 October I called the support line and I was informed that I needed to wager £30 more in order to make the withdrawal valid. So, it took over a month for someone to tell me that the problem with the withdrawal was the fact I hadn’t bet enough.

I wagered the required amounts and made another withdrawal of £140.00 through ClickandBuy on October 12. I still haven’t received the money (31 Oct today). I have called the support line three times and on two occasions they said they would ring me back or send me an email. I didn’t receive any calls or emails. I’ve probably spoken to the support chat team over 20 times and every time they say that I will get the money “soon” but when pressed can’t commit to an exact date.

Any ideas on what I can do?

Thanks for reading!

Ralph

 

[maxd]

FWIW this is something of a known problem with this casino: see our Warning "SupremePlay / 21Grand Casino : stalling, slo-pay, ignored issues".

 

[Tirilej]

But then we just recently had a statement from the new owners of that casino. Here it is.

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/21grand-pay-attention-imho.50366/

 

[maxd]

But then we just recently had a statement from the new owners of that casino ....

Good point! When I get a chance I'll let them know that having the Warning placed "Under Review" with an eye to withdrawing it -- after a successful probation period of course -- is an option they may want to pursue. If the new guys are decent there's no reason for them to labour under the shadow of old business not of their doing.

@ralph7797: Hello, Max Drayman here, I handle the Casinomeister player complaints service called "Pitch-A-Bitch".

If you'd like us to look into this issue for you please check out our Pitch a Bitch service. If that sounds like the way you want to proceed please read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ thoroughly, it details what you can expect from us and what we expect from you throughout the process. It's a free service but we do expect you to know and respect our procedures.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,
Max, Complaints (Pitch-A-Bitch) Manager, sussexmskpartnershipeast.com

 

[ralph7797]

If you'd like us to look into this issue for you please check out our Pitch a Bitch service. If that sounds like the way you want to proceed please read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ thoroughly, it details what you can expect from us and what we expect from you throughout the process. It's a free service but we do expect you to know and respect our procedures.

Hi Max,

Thanks very much for the quick reply.
I've read through the FAQ and submitted the PAB

Hope to hear from you soon,

Ralph

 

[maxd]

PAB received, I'll get back to you shortly (via email) and we'll see what can be done to help you.

 

[maxd]

Well so far I haven't heard a word from these guys though the OP in another recent case reports that they have resolved his issue. Not a word on this one though. :/

 

[maxd]

Well, another week goes by and still nothing from either the rep nor the casino people on the OP's PAB. If they've supposedly cleaned things up I'm not seeing it.

In fact if you look at the Warning you'll see that this "new people, things are better" routine is nothing new for these guys. Back in November 2010 they pretty much said the same thing: "Simon" came forward in a thread at the time, 21Grand Casino "Bonus Abuse", and said he and his assistant would handle cases. They did not. Now someone else from the casino is telling us the same thing, more or less, and again not much is happening. Certainly flat-lining in response to a PAB is no way to "improve" things.

So I'd have to say that as far as I'm concerned the Warning is still applicable and appropriate. If they care to contact me to demonstrate otherwise I'm ready and waiting.

 

[Balthazar]

Well, another week goes by and still nothing from either the rep nor the casino people on the OP's PAB. If they've supposedly cleaned things up I'm not seeing it.

In fact if you look at the Warning you'll see that this "new people, things are better" routine is nothing new for these guys. Back in November 2010 they pretty much said the same thing: "Simon" came forward in a thread at the time, 21Grand Casino "Bonus Abuse", and said he and his assistant would handle cases. They did not. Now someone else from the casino is telling us the same thing, more or less, and again not much is happening. Certainly flat-lining in response to a PAB is no way to "improve" things.

So I'd have to say that as far as I'm concerned the Warning is still applicable and appropriate. If they care to contact me to demonstrate otherwise I'm ready and waiting.

Max are you implying that they don't really have new owners or that the new owners are just as bad as the previous ones?

 

[maxd]

Max are you implying that they don't really have new owners or that the new owners are just as bad as the previous ones?

I'm saying that new owners or not the MO seems to be the same as it ever was. Since they've tried this "new coat of paint" routine in the past I'm tempted to speculate that there was no real change, maybe a cosmetic reshuffling or somesuch.

Either way, if the results are the same -- which as far as I can tell they are -- then the supposed changes are irrelevant. Being on The Shitty Bus with driver X or driver Y probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, you're still on The Shitty Bus.

 

[BestPayPartners]

koxbox player issue

The player koxbox issue was solved on the very same day right here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[BestPayPartners]

I'm saying that new owners or not the MO seems to be the same as it ever was. Since they've tried this "new coat of paint" routine in the past I'm tempted to speculate that there was no real change, maybe a cosmetic reshuffling or somesuch.

Either way, if the results are the same -- which as far as I can tell they are -- then the supposed changes are irrelevant. Being on The Shitty Bus with driver X or driver Y probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, you're still on The Shitty Bus.

Also if you work for casinomeister, it is always good to read other forums too:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[maxd]

Also if you work for casinomeister, it is always good to read other forums too:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Thank you for the suggestion, and for proving my point: you can't even keep these two cases straight. Why should anyone believe you can run a casino responsibly?

The case on that other site refers to a player using the name "vasco", which happens to be the same name he uses here: [profile]vasco[/profile]. I understand that "koxbox" is his casino name. He had filed a PAB here and his case was apparently resolved which I have previously stated in this thread almost a week ago: here. At no time did I hear any of this from the casino though, they never responded. I had to get the updates from the player himself.

This case, the one this thread is about, the one we are talking about here, concerns a player who uses the name [profile]ralph7797[/profile]. To the best of my knowledge his case remains untouched, certainly no response has ever been received from the casino. Shall I start sniffing around the web to see if anything has been done? I think not. Either your people can reply to me about our cases or not, as they choose. We'll process and judge those cases based on what we receive, not on what might be posted elsewhere.

And, FTR, I generally don't read other sites because they have no bearing on the PABs that are submitted here. Our cases are handled independently.

 

[maxd]

I should point out that 21Grand is still listed under the Rival group on the "No Can Do" list. The only reason I accepted the two recent PABs against 21Grand was because there were claims on the table that management had changed and all had been sorted out. Clearly that is not the case. They had a chance here, they flamed-out, we're done.

So just to be clear: I will no longer be making exceptions for 21Grand; the NCD listing is in full effect; no 21Grand PAB issues will be accepted until further notice.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It seems that when players try to use the PAB service the casino stonewalls, however, when a player uses an alternative forum where all evidence is open to public scrutiny and comment, they are more than happy to get involved.

It's not about playing fair, but about dealing with bad PR, that persuades them to respond to mediation.

It's no-can-do here, but it seems that posting the gory details at a forum that hears such cases in public gets results.

Lessons should be learned, players with problems needn't bother trying to get Max to make a no-can-do exception, they should just sign up at askgamblers and pitch their complaint in public, where there is a 21Grand rep willing to join in by trying to shoot down the players' side of the story.

I get the impression the rep's sole purpose here was to be made an official rep so that they could post that official statement with the authority of them being shown to members here as the official rep for the operation. The rep was NOT interested in performing the other functions expected of a rep, hence there was no response to PMs from players, nor PABs from Max.

 

[maxd]

Thank you for the suggestion, and for proving my point: you can't even keep these two cases straight. Why should anyone believe you can run a casino responsibly?

I apologise for this, too harsh and not my usual congenial self. The mistake with the player cases was no doubt an honest one and it was ungracious of me to exploit the error to make my point. That said, the OPs issue is still unaddressed AFAIK.

 

[Balthazar]

I apologise for this, too harsh and not my usual congenial self. The mistake with the player cases was no doubt an honest one and it was ungracious of me to exploit the error to make my point. That said, the OPs issue is still unaddressed AFAIK.

You're trying to reach them and they ignore you, then they come here basically to tell you to read other forums if you want answers. IMO, you weren't harsh enough.

Plus this is the Bonne Chance folks AKA Rival Software, so you should already know the kind of people you're dealing with.

 

[maxd]

Further developments in this case have shown that it is indeed the same old crew, as identified by name and habit, behind the scenes at 21Grand. As such the OP's PAB is going nowhere and I have other matters to attend to: case closed.

I'll leave it to the OP report his side of the story as he sees fit.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Further developments in this case have shown that it is indeed the same old crew, as identified by name and habit, behind the scenes at 21Grand. As such the OP's PAB is going nowhere and I have other matters to attend to: case closed.

I'll leave it to the OP report his side of the story as he sees fit.

For trying to pull such a deception on yourself and Bryan, they deserve an upgrade - from "warning class" to "rogue class". At present they appear neither in the pit, nor under "not recommended". Even the current warning is not archived to the list at the top of the rogues page.

 

[Tirilej]

Further developments in this case have shown that it is indeed the same old crew, as identified by name and habit, behind the scenes at 21Grand. As such the OP's PAB is going nowhere and I have other matters to attend to: case closed.

I'll leave it to the OP report his side of the story as he sees fit.

Do I understand this right now? There was never any change of people there? The party they had for the new casino they opened and the statement he made was just a trick to make us believe that something had changed?

 

[maxd]

The people at the helm -- as in the person(s) in a position to make final decisions regarding the resolution of player issues -- are apparently the same. Whether they had something to celibrate or not I couldn't say.

As to the recent Warning not appearing on the listing that tops the Rogue page I have to accept responsibility for that. Bryan has recently given me the task of updating those and I haven't quite worked it into my routine yet. I was thinking to do it as a first-of-the-month thing but that is (obviously) a work in progress.

 

[Tirilej]

While you are doing an update you might should put their new casino on the no can do list too. Play2win is the name.

 

[ralph7797]

Apologies about the delay in giving an update. I was waiting to see the eventual solution.

Thanks to help from MaxD and a guy from the casino, I've managed to get the money.
In this case, the problem was the fact I had an account in Pounds and the click and buy service couldn't process the withdrawal properly. I had to set up a new account in Euros and got the withdrawal processed.

To be fair to 21 Grand, once they knew about the issue they were really quick in sorting it out. This one guy must have called me about 5 times in the space of 2 days to help me with the problem. I received the money 2 days after making the new withdrawal.

MaxD was really helpful as well. Responding to emails immediately and being supportive with the PAB.

Keep up the good work CasinoMeister!

 

[Tirilej]

I'm glad you finally got paid, but it feels sad that they needed the pressure from here to "find" the issue.
It did take them 2 months of stalling first so it takes a little more to impress at least me.

 

[maxd]

To be fair to 21 Grand, once they knew about the issue they were really quick in sorting it out.

Umm, not to be poopy about this, but if we're going to be fair to the casino let's also be balanced. You forgot to mention that they had told you earlier on in the process that they'd pay if you deleted this thread and you came to me asking what [strike]could be done[/strike] I thought about that. No mention of currency problems or whatever was made at that point as I recall, apparently that came to light after they realised that thread deletion was not an option.

This isn't the first time people from this casino group have tried to manipulate the content of Casinomeister forums. If they don't like their dirt being dragged out on the forums then they might consider the merits of doing less dirt.

 

[chuchu59]

Umm, not to be poopy about this, but don't forget they also told you -- presumably earlier on in the process -- that they'd pay if you deleted this thread. No mention of currency problems or whatever was made at that point, apparently that came to light after they realised that thread deletion was not an option.

Frankly this is sufficient for players not to patronise this casino.

 

[BestPayPartners]

issue solved

Apologies about the delay in giving an update. I was waiting to see the eventual solution.

Thanks to help from MaxD and a guy from the casino, I've managed to get the money.
In this case, the problem was the fact I had an account in Pounds and the click and buy service couldn't process the withdrawal properly. I had to set up a new account in Euros and got the withdrawal processed.

To be fair to 21 Grand, once they knew about the issue they were really quick in sorting it out. This one guy must have called me about 5 times in the space of 2 days to help me with the problem. I received the money 2 days after making the new withdrawal.

MaxD was really helpful as well. Responding to emails immediately and being supportive with the PAB.

Keep up the good work CasinoMeister!

I am happy to hear that this issue is solved properly.
You are always welcome to send me an e-mail directly to [email protected] or just shoot me a PM.

Cheers, John

 

[vinylweatherman]

Apologies about the delay in giving an update. I was waiting to see the eventual solution.

Thanks to help from MaxD and a guy from the casino, I've managed to get the money.
In this case, the problem was the fact I had an account in Pounds and the click and buy service couldn't process the withdrawal properly. I had to set up a new account in Euros and got the withdrawal processed.

To be fair to 21 Grand, once they knew about the issue they were really quick in sorting it out. This one guy must have called me about 5 times in the space of 2 days to help me with the problem. I received the money 2 days after making the new withdrawal.

MaxD was really helpful as well. Responding to emails immediately and being supportive with the PAB.

Keep up the good work CasinoMeister!

Have you checked this with Click & Buy? Doesn't quite sound right to me. Any decent eWallet should be able to handle currency conversions. Perhaps an account in a different eWallet might be a better long term solution than an account in a different currency.

Maybe it was the casino's own merchant account at Click & Buy that was the problem, it being empty of UK Pounds, but their Euro one was fine. I have seen this situation before with other casinos, even accredited ones, with Neteller. The proper solution is for the casino to send funds to the empty merchant account, apologise to the player for the delay, and hope all is forgiven.

2 months to spot this issue is seriously incompetent - it could have been diagnosed in 5 minutes if someone familiar with the workings of the process had a look.

I recall the last time the rep invited emails and PMs they all got ignored.

We need to see players who have NOT started a thread getting their issues solved swiftly and professionally, and if this IS done, one result would be no negative threads that need hushing up.

 

[BestPayPartners]

issue solved

I am happy to hear that this issue is solved properly.
You are always welcome to send me an e-mail directly to [email protected] or just shoot me a PM.

Cheers, John

@vinylweatherman - please read carefully, issue is solved.

 

[sapit222]

Put them up as Not Recommended in the Rogue Pit!

Ps. Maybe i was a lil bit too hard in the first judgment!

 

[Tirilej]

Put them up as rogue class!

They havn't deserved that yet, and I believe that for every casino and every player it's better to solve problems than to through casinos in to the pit.
Let's hope instead that there will be no more issues and that players will feel safe playing there.

The future will show us

 

[evogt19]

@vinylweatherman - please read carefully, issue is solved.

Your attitude in my honest opinion is very disrespectful
I would never make a deposit at a casino that have reps that ignore the forum staff and reply to valued members like he's doesn't know what he's saying.
I understood perfectly, I think that you don't understand how things work around here and why.
In your position you should not make snappy comments like that and it does not make you look smart to ignore the topic and put in messages that come down to its solved forget about it and shut up

 

[chuchu59]

@vinylweatherman - please read carefully, issue is solved.

Just because the w/d is finally paid does not mean everything is fine and dandy. VWM posed perfectly legitimate concerns and you should be be addressing them not putting in rude remarks. If, as Max said, a condition for payment was that this thread be deleted then I think players should think twice before playing at this outfit.

 

[maxd]

... If, as Max said, a condition for payment was that this thread be deleted ....

Please note that I had said "earlier in the process" before I mentioned the thread deletion request. They later dropped that request, AFTER I told the OP that deletion was not an option but presumably they may have figured that out on their own.

If John wants to honestly represent the history of this case then his statement should read something like:

For the longest time we tried ignoring the whole thing but it wouldn't go away. Then we tried pressuring the OP to delete his entire thread and everyone else's posts along with it but that didn't work. And we deliberatly tried to mislead him about what great friends we are with Casinomeister, but that didn't work either. Then we came up with some flaky story about currency exchanges and ... we payed him! Happy to help, call again!

Guess who isn't holding his breath for that press release?

 

[Brooklyn]

That is terrible. It shouldn't take a member posting about their problems to get paid.

I don't understand this.

Resolved, so what does that mean? We should all pretend your casino is worthy of playing? Nah, I don't think so sir.

I would like to hear what you have to say about asking if this thread could be deleted in order to pay him faster.

Why was that even brought up. Perhaps like the other posters have already said; you should stop acting in such a way that merits a bad thread about your casinos.

Currency shurrency, it has nothing to do with that. You decided to pay up after you saw the thread, that's kinda laughable in a way but also really not that funny.

 

[chuchu59]

Please note that I had said "earlier in the process" before I mentioned the thread deletion request. They later dropped that request, AFTER I told the OP that deletion was not an option but presumably they may have figured that out on their own.

If John wants to honestly represent the history of this case then his statement should read something like:

Guess who isn't holding his breath for that press release?

You had to be so bloody honest Max.