Casino Complaint 32red club rouge FOR LIFE

[mac72]

Just received this from 32red today~:
Dear XXXX,



I hope you are well.



Every quarter accounts are reviewed to ensure that they still qualify for Club Rouge status. During the most recent review it has been deemed that, unfortunately, your account does not currently qualify.



With the above said, and as we do value your business, your account status will be adjusted to a Gold Tier account which is the highest Tier outside of Club Rouge. On this Tier you will enjoy the benefit of 50% bonus loyalty points, birthday rubies and other offers. Full details can be found here. In addition, and by remaining on the Gold Tier, your account will be reviewed for Club Rouge status again at a later date.



Your account change take effect on 01/11/2014.



Kind regards,




VIP and Customer Marketing Manager

32Red Plc

942 Europort, Gibraltar



My account has been Club Rouge FOR LIFE for approx the last 8 years, my play hasn't decreased and i'm actually on a losing run.This is quite frankly ridiculous and i see they have changed the club rouge for life wording to 'you current tier is club rouge', which makes the 'club rouge for life' a misrepresentation.They have had my patronage on the basis that i had this status guaranteed and i'm not going to let it be removed without agreement (which i would never give).
I am interested to hear from other club rouge members who received the same letter today and i will be posting a much more comprehensive complaint on this when i have the time over the next few days.When i rang to speak to Mr Bowler player support told me he had gone for the evening but the Pitboss informed me that 'we can change anything we want'. Unfortunately that isn't quite correct and when things are put in place for LIFE and that induces people to keep playing with you instead of moving around and building up status with another operator there has to be consequences.I will be back in a few days when i have gathered all the info i require.
Oh and before anybody refers to their terms and conditions re right to withdraw any promo etc. you need to bear in mind that the majority of casino players aren't legal experts and as such you cannot have conflicting terms that would confuse and mislead a normal person.Imagine a scenario where a car company offered you a deal where you got a years free insurance with a car and after the purchase they hand you a three month policy and refer you to T+c 20.3.11 'ANY FREE INSURANCE POLICY WILL BE FOR A MAXIMUM FOR 3 MONTHS'. The t+c is irrelevant as any reasonable person would have been entitled to assume that the policy was a 12month one regardless of what was hidden in the t+c.The same applies to the 32red 'club rouge for life' there is no other way to interpret that and with no breaking of any of the other casino terms removal of the status carrys no justification whatsoever.

 

[Tirilej]

I don't know if you ever have read the rules on their website regarding Club Rouge, but maybe you should have done that.
I have, and they have not been updated for over a year.

3.The casino may, at their sole discretion, limit the eligibility of customers to participate in this promotion, for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users. No correspondence will be entered into. 32Red's decision will be considered final in the event of a dispute.
4.The casino reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to the end users, using reasonable efforts to provide such notice in advance.

I can understand your disappointment, but I don't think they sent you that email without a reason.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Hi mac, i sure didn't see that one coming, and i feel sorry for you.
That is definitely not cool. If things are as you state, and you haven't significantly decreased your play, then it does seem a bit out of the ordinary, for a Casino like 32Red to throw you out of that tier, Despite the fact that Gold is still attractive, it isn't the same, i was a wee bit worried about this, when i recently read another thread from a player here who had spotted the changed wording, but most of us figured that was just due to the new lobby and the U.K updates, so to speak..

However this post:
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/did-32red-get-rid-of-club-rouge-for-life.64248/

indicated that someone had said that would be reviewed, apparently that has been a bit faster then expected

So, i hope that you are misrepresenting the facts, and have deposited like 1 euro since last year, or i might also be in for a little kick in the bum,
I still think that even if that happens i will be equally satisfied with them, as i can't imagine the good bond i have now with their team, specifically Mr. Harrison, to vaporize along with my Club Rouge status

Would love for Mark to chime in here, and say what's up.

Club Rouge means bigger bonuses, mostly all free spin promotions on a higher denomination, and also an increased nr. of spins, more frequent & bigger bonuses, and increased comp point rate/ conversion and bigger B-day bonuses..

If i imagine myself demoted, i don't really believe i will get less then i am getting now, but that's my good faith, and experience so far talking!

EDIT:
Ah good to know, i didn't even read that rule @ Tirilej.

 

[mac72]

Firstly i assume you are implying i have done something wrong and that is the reason for the removal of status.However my girlfriend received exactly the same letter today and when i rang player support i asked if they were getting lots of calls about these letters and was told they were and it was a top level management 'business decision' so it is a policy change that affects more than me.
You are referring to the t+c's as if they are a carte blanche for the casino to do whatever they like to you whenever they like.You are mistaken and to take it to an extreme level if one of the terms was 'if you win too much we reserve the right to come to your house and shoot you' are you saying that just because they write it they have an entitlement to carry it through? LOL
Anyway in case you missed it i said i was induced to play pretty much exclusively with them on the basis of a misrepresentation that my status was set to club rouge for life (i was a vip player with ladbrokes and moved most of my business to them) and i attach below the meaning of misrepresentation pointing out that i am aware of forum rules and if i were to decide to go down the legal route i will stop posting to the thread.The purpose of the thread was to get feedback from other forum members on the receipt of the same letters:

Misrepresentation in English contract law and English tort law refers to a situation where a person is induced to enter into a contract entirely or partly by a false assertion (of fact, not opinion or intention) made by the other contracting party. Claims that can be described as sales talk, such as advertising slogans, are not misrepresentations. If a misrepresentation is incorporated as a term of the contract, it may form the basis of an action for breach of contract, and contractual remedies. If not, the misrepresentee (the party influenced by the misrepresentation of the other party) may be able to rescind (withdraw from) the contract or obtain damages. A misrepresentation may be made fraudulently, negligently, or non‐negligently (innocently).[1] A related term is "misstatement": a false assertion that causes harm other than by inducing a person to enter a contract.[1] Contract law deals with the contractual implications of misrepresentation; in most cases[2] English law allows escape from a bargain when a contracting party has not given true consent due to misrepresentation. Tort law deals with civil wrongs and remedies.

When a misrepresentation has been made and an agreement was (or at any rate appeared to be) concluded, the misrepresentee does not have to bring a halt to the deal. Misrepresentations generally do not render a contract void, as does the contractual doctrine of common mistake or frustration; it makes a contract voidable at the option of the misrepresentee. Not all contracts entered into on the strength of misrepresentations will be bad for the misrepresentee, who may choose not to void the contract.

Remedies are partly regulated by the Misrepresentation Act 1967. English law generally allows a contract to be unwound, so that both parties are put back into the position before the agreement was made. It may be that the misrepresentation was incorporated into the contract as a term, so as an alternative one can claim the contract should subsist and claim for a loss in expectations.[3] In this case the misrepresentee can equally sue for damages as if the misrepresentation had been true. A misrepresentee may also sue for any losses due to relying on the misrepresentation

No sorry not 1 euro deposit! Just checked account history from 1st january 2014 to todays date deposits:£46631 withdrawls:£13259 and i would have played pretty much every day ,did try to copy my account history but cant seem to be able to do it,if someone else wants to try and tell me how i'll post it.In relation to Pat Harrison i sent him and Ed an email today and this was Pat's autoreply (seems strange to take a break when your implementing such a policy shift?)


Hi,

I am now away from the office until 20th October and I will deal with your query when I return.

Regards
Pat

 

[Tirilej]

You only wanted replies from those who also had recieved the email? I didn't agree or got the email so I should not have posted?

That is not up to you to decide. I thought it would be good to have the rules posted too since that is what they are following.
I have been grateful for being in Club Rouge a few years now, but to take it for granded? Absolutely not since I knew it could be removed, just like in any other casino, and that is the view I'm entitled to post.

I do understand how you feel though, and who knows...I maybe will get the email too.

 

[incrediblestuff]

No sorry not 1 euro deposit! Just checked account history from 1st january 2014 to todays date deposits:£46631 withdrawls:£13259 and i would have played pretty much every day ,did try to copy my account history but cant seem to be able to do it,if someone else wants to try and tell me how i'll post it.In relation to Pat Harrison i sent him and Ed an email today and this was Pat's autoreply (seems strange to take a break when your implementing such a policy shift?)


Hi,

I am now away from the office until 20th October and I will deal with your query when I return.

Regards
Pat

Just take a screenshot of the summary page, with the print screen button, then paste that in MS paint, or a similar program..

I for one haven't received such a letter, and i probably would be the first to go if they did some massive boot-kicking, so like i said, i am still assuming there is a reason. About what you said on Tirilej's post, i think you are missing her point, and your follow up on that point regarding UK law etc. is not in my opinion something valid, as this term she mentioned negates any "contract" you may think you have, basically it's just a perk, with a special T&C attached. As comparison a life sentence may also be less then expected, if you catch my drift

Look, i am not saying you are a fraud or whatnot, i am just saying this is the first time i ever heard of a player being demoted, and hopefully the last, but if not it's not a huge thing, just a little less generosity towards you from their end.

If your stats are correct, and you weren't up 100K last year, then i'd say it would hurt me too, and was not to be expected, but if all that would be true, you can only vote with your feet, talking about "a case" and taking things further is not really a realistic approach i.m.o.

Edit:
Regarding Pat taking a break, i don't know if he is, and you aren't sure either, if it is so, he definitely deserves one, as he always works...and that is an understatement!

 

[mac72]

tried to upload the deposit withdrawals getting this: the following errors occured: 32reddeposit.jpg The dimension limits for this filetype are 800*1800 we were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again.Your file is currently 1600*900
any ideas?

 

[Tirilej]

tried to upload the deposit withdrawals getting this: the following errors occured: 32reddeposit.jpg The dimension limits for this filetype are 800*1800 we were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again.Your file is currently 1600*900
any ideas?

You can just open it in Paint and make it smaller.

Honestly though, I don't think the change of status have anything to do with the amount deposited or withdrawals.
They take in people by invitation and they don't care if they are low rollers or not. They look at other things. What that is or what have changed with you, that you have to ask them about.

 

[mac72]

Ok i believe they have a rep on this forum.Lets ask him to clarify how many people this letter was sent to?

 

[Nifty29]

Ok i believe they have a rep on this forum.Lets ask him to clarify how many people this letter was sent to?

IMO this is an unreasonable question and the rep should be under no obligation to answer.

What next? How much everyone else deposits each week? How much everyone else has cashed out?

Seriously, the question is ridiculous and pointless. It was sent to YOU.....that's the only issue relevant to you. What everyone else has or hasn't received is none of your business.

 

[mac72]

I should also point out that i had a £2000 enhanced monthly bonus on my account for years and at the time of its inception when they were desperate for players i made the point of clarifying how long it would be available for and was told (albeit verbally) that it would always be on my account regardless of my level of play.I received an email very similar to the one which is the subject of this thread (which i can't locate but i have asked them to furnish me with copies of all my emails since the account was opened) recinding the EMB offer approx 2 years ago.I let this slide at the time as they explained the daily bonus structure that had come into play amounted to the same thing.
I do not share your view that this is a 'perk'.I played at a certain level for a sustained period of time to be 'invited' to club rouge and once there expected to have my 'for life' status honoured.

Yes it was sent to me but various replies have inferred that it is unique to me.I have stated that i think this is a shift in policy and as stated in the original post asked for any other recipients of such a letter to reply.The rep is absolutely under no obligation to respond but i am perfectly entitled to ask.I certainly wouldn't ask anyone else to divulge account/financial information

IMO this is an unreasonable question and the rep should be under no obligation to answer.

What next? How much everyone else deposits each week? How much everyone else has cashed out?

Seriously, the question is ridiculous and pointless. It was sent to YOU.....that's the only issue relevant to you. What everyone else has or hasn't received is none of your business.

Most posts on these forums are about things that are specific to individual players who take time to post them to inform the gambling community at large and invite feedback and discussion.It was sent to me but i think it is in the communities interest to know if there has been a policy change especially when i do not believe it is justified or legitimate.
Its not so long ago that we had the weekend withdrawal removal with the explanation that it was to bring their banking into line with UK banking hours! That however was something that wasn't set for LIFE and was down to them to do as they saw fit with, however i don't think it was just me that viewed it with some scepticism.

I have sent this to them just now and will post their reply when i receive it.Someone said earlier they look at 'other things'.I would like to know what that would encompass thats not included in the below.I think this is in the communities interest, as i mentioned earlier you can't give loyalty to a brand thats going to pull the rug from under you, you might as well be playing elsewhere building up a VIP status.

Dear Sirs,
Please clarify the following:

1) At what date did i join the casino
2) At what date did i become Club Rouge
3) Was the status given to me 'Club Rouge for Life'
4) If the answer to 3 is yes please advise if you are dead as i can confirm i am not
5) You say that accounts are reviewed quarterly can you please advise for each quarter since i attained club rouge status my i) deposits ii)withdrawals iii) turnover iv) days active out of days available (I only want to see it ,it does not change my position that life means life)

best regards,

Sorry please add the following:

6) have i now or at anytime since i joined been in breach of ANY of the casino's rules and regulations

You are aware of the thread i have started on Casinomeister and i invite you to reply directly to that thread with the answer to 6) or if you prefer reply to me and i'll post it

 

[Nifty29]

Most posts on these forums are about things that are specific to individual players who take time to post them to inform the gambling community at large and invite feedback and discussion.It was sent to me but i think it is in the communities interest to know if there has been a policy change especially when i do not believe it is justified or legitimate.
Its not so long ago that we had the weekend withdrawal removal with the explanation that it was to bring their banking into line with UK banking hours! That however was something that wasn't set for LIFE and was down to them to do as they saw fit with, however i don't think it was just me that viewed it with some scepticism.

Yes I get all of that.

My point is that it is immaterial whether you were the only one or one of 50,000. It doesn't change your situation.

A cynical person might construe this constant posting of yours as a personal agenda, or at worst an attempt to brow-beat 32Red into changing their minds.

Why don't you ask some affiliates here about what "a percentage of your players losses for life" actually becomes when they stop sending players etc

 

[deepsky2]

Just received this from 32red today~:
Dear XXXX,



I hope you are well.



Every quarter accounts are reviewed to ensure that they still qualify for Club Rouge status. During the most recent review it has been deemed that, unfortunately, your account does not currently qualify.



With the above said, and as we do value your business, your account status will be adjusted to a Gold Tier account which is the highest Tier outside of Club Rouge. On this Tier you will enjoy the benefit of 50% bonus loyalty points, birthday rubies and other offers. Full details can be found here. In addition, and by remaining on the Gold Tier, your account will be reviewed for Club Rouge status again at a later date.



Your account change take effect on 01/11/2014.



Kind regards,



Steven Bowler

VIP and Customer Marketing Manager

32Red Plc

942 Europort, Gibraltar

w:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

My account has been Club Rouge FOR LIFE for approx the last 8 years, my play hasn't decreased and i'm actually on a losing run.This is quite frankly ridiculous and i see they have changed the club rouge for life wording to 'you current tier is club rouge', which makes the 'club rouge for life' a misrepresentation.They have had my patronage on the basis that i had this status guaranteed and i'm not going to let it be removed without agreement (which i would never give).
I am interested to hear from other club rouge members who received the same letter today and i will be posting a much more comprehensive complaint on this when i have the time over the next few days.When i rang to speak to Mr Bowler player support told me he had gone for the evening but the Pitboss informed me that 'we can change anything we want'. Unfortunately that isn't quite correct and when things are put in place for LIFE and that induces people to keep playing with you instead of moving around and building up status with another operator there has to be consequences.I will be back in a few days when i have gathered all the info i require.
Oh and before anybody refers to their terms and conditions re right to withdraw any promo etc. you need to bear in mind that the majority of casino players aren't legal experts and as such you cannot have conflicting terms that would confuse and mislead a normal person.Imagine a scenario where a car company offered you a deal where you got a years free insurance with a car and after the purchase they hand you a three month policy and refer you to T+c 20.3.11 'ANY FREE INSURANCE POLICY WILL BE FOR A MAXIMUM FOR 3 MONTHS'. The t+c is irrelevant as any reasonable person would have been entitled to assume that the policy was a 12month one regardless of what was hidden in the t+c.The same applies to the 32red 'club rouge for life' there is no other way to interpret that and with no breaking of any of the other casino terms removal of the status carrys no justification whatsoever.

I feel for you I started a post a week or so back when I noticed checking my points I saw it doesn't say for life anymore. I contacted CS was told it was only cosmetic well looks like a lie as even though I have not lost club rouge yet but I think it's very undermining by 32 Red to invite players in to Club Rouge and tell for life and then later remove that seems to me plain and simple a lie. I understand if the player is a fraud etc but doing this to the loyal players is low I'm thinking more changes from 32red and not good changes again think they will loose loyal players but lately they really don't seem to care that's just my opinion.

 

[mac72]

Yes I get all of that.

My point is that it is immaterial whether you were the only one or one of 50,000. It doesn't change your situation.

A cynical person might construe this constant posting of yours as a personal agenda, or at worst an attempt to brow-beat 32Red into changing their minds.

Why don't you ask some affiliates here about what "a percentage of your players losses for life" actually becomes when they stop sending players etc

Its not immaterial when your trying to establish if it is a policy change and whether the 'explanation' given was just a smoke screen.I see you are a regular poster so i take it that you do not feel the users of this forum should be able to make an informed decision about an online operator when presented with the facts? (and anything i have posted is factual,if you need further backup to anything just ask). Am i not allowed to discuss this in the forum and if not exactly what are you allowed to talk about.
If some affiliate provides an online operator with a new player on the basis that they will receive a percentage of the players losses for life then they are in my opinion soft in the head if they don't ensure they get paid under that agreement.
You see with the club rouge status it is by invitation and when invited i was given that status for life.If you were a gold player you have no such security as you have to earn 5000 tier points each month otherwise you drop down etc etc.So that is a bit like an affiliate who enters an agreement to provide a certain number of players to keep his status and ensure his payment stream.As you will see from this link

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club rouge tier requirements are N/A and that coupled with the 'for life' status makes it impossible to argue for the downgrade unless you accept a term and condition that a company you deal with can change any agreement at any time for any reason.Most Companies employ broad terms like these but because they employ them dosen't mean they are enforceable (ever been in a shop where it states no exchanges,no returns or tried to be fobbed off with a credit note instead of your money back?).
I don't see how i am following a personal agenda anymore than anyone else posting about any other subject and as for brow beating 32red they are more than welcome to respond and as i am a new forum member i have tried to give as much information to show i am genuine.I am certainly not a 32red hater with some hidden agenda,i have been at their highest loyalty level for the past 8 years and have deposited and played nearly every day within that period.If i can be treated in this dispicable manner then i am just making others aware that they may be for the same treatment.Here is some correspondance from 4th september 2014 (32red rep can verify its authenticity) just to show i am genuine and beyond reasonable:

Hi XXXX,



Thanks for your patience.



As I mentioned on the phone earlier, just trying to get a handle on my memory banks as this discrepancy is caused by a change we made to our loyalty system a couple of years back. In simplistic terms the software we use to record, update and award loyalty points changed on 01/02/2012. As a Club Rouge member you wouldn’t have noticed any differences other than cosmetics in the loyalty page. The changes did allow us to implement a loyalty tier system which gave non-VIP’s extra loyalty benefits based on their level of game play.



The figures that you have highlighted in the screen shot are picking the information from different sources. In that the bottom figure in red which refers to ‘Since Joining the casino’ is only encompassing points from the introduction of the new system on 01/02/2012 whereas the figure in black under header ‘Total Since Joining’ pulls the data directly from your account in our back office and as such reflects points earned since opening the account back in 2005. To make sure the figures are correct I’ve been through points earned since the new system was introduced and can confirm that 286,600 (£2,866) is a result of your gameplay since 01/02/2012 and the 41,400 (£414) we credited manually from special loyalty based promotions.



I completely understand why this has raised concerns and prompted you to question it. I can’t confirm the exact words but the first words that past my lips when I was informed of this were along the lines of…..has that still not been removed. When we initially made the change a handful of players highlighted this to us and we subsequently put in a software change request to MG. It would appear that this request was never completed, which you can rest assure heads will roll for!



Essentially XXXX, I can confirm there is no shortfall in the amount of rubies you’ve earned or redeemed in the casino. That said, your feedback in questioning this has brought to our attention something that has been overlooked and makes a mockery of our integrity. I also feel that the way in which this has been handle could and should have been far better. I have for these reasons added a further goodwill bonus to your account and would also like to thank you for your continued patronage.



Have a great day and thanks again

Kind Regards,

Jonathan
Player Support Manager
32Red
Second to None

AND MY RESPONSE WAS:

Jonathan,
Many thanks for getting back to me with such a comprehensive explanation and I thank you for the bonus chips added to my account which brings this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. (Any other online operator I would want to see some form of backup but with such a long history without problems I am more than happy to accept you have checked it thoroughly and I am not at any loss). I will also let XXXXXX know that the same explanation applies to her account. (If you could see your way to throwing her in 20 or 30 chips just so I don’t get the inevitable how come you got something and I didn’t questionnaire to fill in ,it would be much appreciated)

Best Regards,

As i said i've been with them for over 8 years and with playing near every day i have reams of this stuff if you feel i still appear to be a 32red hater and need further proof of my authenticity i can post it. I certainly don't need the forum to brow beat them i'm perfectly able to handle them myself i just was so disgusted and disillusioned today i thought this would be of interest to other players.

 

[suzecat]

You are right to bring this to the forum's attention. If or when this happens to other Club Rouge members this thread will be important to them.

However, you agree to 32Red's terms/conditions every time you deposit and play there. IMO that is the extent of the "contract" you have with them at any given time. Promotions can be called whatever a casino wants to call them. They are enticements and IMO have no legal effect.

Should you feel you should escalate 32Red's decision to alter your Club Rouge status, then file a PAB with maxd. IMO, he is excellent and will be a fair advocate for you and 32Red.

Best of luck

 

[mac72]

You are right to bring this to the forum's attention. If or when this happens to other Club Rouge members this thread will be important to them.

However, you agree to 32Red's terms/conditions every time you deposit and play there. IMO that is the extent of the "contract" you have with them at any given time. Promotions can be called whatever a casino wants to call them. They are enticements and IMO have no legal effect.

Should you feel you should escalate 32Red's decision to alter your Club Rouge status, then file a PAB with maxd. IMO, he is excellent and will be a fair advocate for you and 32Red.

Best of luck

Thank you for backing my stance to bring this to everybody's attention.We will agree to disagree on the legal position in relation to agreeing to 32red's t+c's every time you deposit and the validity of some of those t+c's

 

[Nifty29]

Thank you for backing my stance to bring this to everybody's attention.We will agree to disagree on the legal position in relation to agreeing to 32red's t+c's every time you deposit and the validity of some of those t+c's

The legal position is......that you don't know what the legal position is, and neither does anyone else here because none of us are lawyers (although some think they are).

Hence your legal opinion is worth as much as mine or anyone else's. The going rate is a pinch of salt right now if I'm not mistaken.

Nobody said you shouldn't bring this to our attention. I don't have a problem with you doing so. The problem I have is that you are turning this into somewhat of a floorshow and piling on mostly pointless questions and making it pretty tough for a rep to get involved.

Nothing wrong with discussion about your issue, but you shouldn't be calling the rep out to answer all your personal questions in the forums, but rather you should do it via PM or email. Doing it publicly won't change anything in a positive way for you, but may have the opposite effect.

 

[mac72]

I wasn't offering a legal opinion rather reserving my right to disagree with the opinion you offered yourself " IMO that is the extent of the "contract" you have with them at any given time" .You seem to want to view your opinon on something and deny me the right to reply.I don't wish to turn anything into a floor show but felt the need to respond to various things others said in relation to my original post.I was really hoping just to hear from other club rouge members who had been downgraded and get their thoughts and made that quite clear from the outset.If people don't ask questions or make assumptions and wait to see what other people are saying in relation to the original post i won't feel the need to keep posting.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There are quite a few Club Rouge players who are members here, so we will quickly find out whether this is a shift in policy or just the usual case of an isolated player, for whatever reason, losing their Club Rouge status.

There is a wider context too. We have seen the removal of weekend payouts, and more recently the implementation of a default 24 hour pending period from the old 6 hour default, although this can be set back to 1 hour on request. It seems that a review of Club Rouge is just the next logical step, as a "for life" system means the club can get pretty crowded over the years.

The error is probably that it should never have been billed as "for life" in the first place, as it gives a false impression because most people will interpret it literally. I believe other companies have fallen into the same trap, and usually the "for life" disappears when a company ceases trading, or is taken over by another.

The Club Rouge criteria have never been about how much one deposits, wins, loses, or plays. It has been based on an invitation, and decided by people, not computers. It is therefore incorrect to use the amounts deposited, played, lost, etc to argue that one should be granted Club Rouge status, or not lose it.

Perhaps we now know why the rep would not clearly state that the "for life" policy was unchanged when people first started to query the changed text, they were reviewing Club Rouge at the time, and seem to have decided on a quarterly review, and the idea that the flow would be in both directions at the conclusion of each review.

This may be an unwise move, given that 32Red are lagging behind casinos such as Guts in terms of the speed of processing withdrawals, and the trend among the multi provider platform casinos seems to be for faster payments, whereas the trend among single provider download casinos has been for slower payments, achieved through longer pending periods and restricted processing hours.

If 32Red change everything that made them stand above the crowd, they will become just one of the crowd, which will leave them more vulnerable to the others in terms of poaching their regular players.

 

[mac72]

There are quite a few Club Rouge players who are members here, so we will quickly find out whether this is a shift in policy or just the usual case of an isolated player, for whatever reason, losing their Club Rouge status.

There is a wider context too. We have seen the removal of weekend payouts, and more recently the implementation of a default 24 hour pending period from the old 6 hour default, although this can be set back to 1 hour on request. It seems that a review of Club Rouge is just the next logical step, as a "for life" system means the club can get pretty crowded over the years.

The error is probably that it should never have been billed as "for life" in the first place, as it gives a false impression because most people will interpret it literally. I believe other companies have fallen into the same trap, and usually the "for life" disappears when a company ceases trading, or is taken over by another.

The Club Rouge criteria have never been about how much one deposits, wins, loses, or plays. It has been based on an invitation, and decided by people, not computers. It is therefore incorrect to use the amounts deposited, played, lost, etc to argue that one should be granted Club Rouge status, or not lose it.

Perhaps we now know why the rep would not clearly state that the "for life" policy was unchanged when people first started to query the changed text, they were reviewing Club Rouge at the time, and seem to have decided on a quarterly review, and the idea that the flow would be in both directions at the conclusion of each review.

This may be an unwise move, given that 32Red are lagging behind casinos such as Guts in terms of the speed of processing withdrawals, and the trend among the multi provider platform casinos seems to be for faster payments, whereas the trend among single provider download casinos has been for slower payments, achieved through longer pending periods and restricted processing hours.

If 32Red change everything that made them stand above the crowd, they will become just one of the crowd, which will leave them more vulnerable to the others in terms of poaching their regular players.

Thank you for such a balanced reply.You have hit the nail on the head with a lot of it.I completely agree with you that as a start up years ago they obviously put things in place that with hindsight they realise should have been done better but that dosen't get away from the fact that they did put them in place and they achieved an advantage from that (enticing players away from other casino's). Perhaps people should think of it more simplisticly.If you were offered 3 deposit bonus to run consecutively and after doing the first two,losing your full deposits and not breaking any of the rules you were denied the third bonus everybody would be up in arms.You've hit a bad run but have been denied the advantage promised of the third bonus to get your money back.Or to make it more akin to what has happened here the wagering requirements where changed dramatically killing your chances you would feel hard done by.It's a bit like the club rouge status, you could be on a downward swing for a sustained period but with that status you have more of a chance to get your money back over the coming months or years.I for one was always playing the long game.
In relation to the for life status when a company stops trading that is the end of its 'life' so everyone accepts that its all over, i would contend though that if it is bought over nothing has changed,the new owners should have done their due diligence and none of the agreements in place should come as any suprise to them and are required to be honoured.Anyway 32red aren't in either position.
Again i am in complete agreement with you that deposit/withdrawals/turnover have nothing to do with club rouge status it is by invitation and that invitation was offered and accepted by me and it was ratified with the 'Your status is set to club rouge for life".Had they not stipulated the 'for life' i would accept that they were entitled to remove it at any time but given that term i say that while they have a right to decide on any criteria to offer it they lose the right to withdraw it.
I only asked the questions (deposits/withdrawals/turnover) in response to another post on the thread which said something must have changed and was hoping to show that nothing has changed on my end. The purpose being to show the community that agreements made had been reneged on with no wrongdoing at my end.
Again i totally agree with you that the things that made them special have been slowly eroded and what we have ended up with is something that is decidely average.With so many changes lately you wonder if the owners are simply tidying up house or are trying to make the thing more attractive to prospective purchasers in a bid to flip it on and exit, all of which i strenuously point out is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Tirilej]

Maybe this is a silly way to compare you losing your membership in Club Rouge, but to me it make perfect sence.

See it like a marriage. You two liked eachother. They proposed and you said yes.
You both thought it would be a lifetime relationship, but unfortunately it doesn't always end up that way.

Now it's time for a divorce. They like you but not enough to keep trying to make it work.
You are still free to come and go as you wish, but it will not be the same...at least not for some time.
Maybe you can work on it or at least clear things up so you know where you have eachother

 

[mac72]

Maybe this is a silly way to compare you losing your membership in Club Rouge, but to me it make perfect sence.

See it like a marriage. You two liked eachother. They proposed and you said yes.
You both thought it would be a lifetime relationship, but unfortunately it doesn't always end up that way.

Now it's time for a divorce. They like you but not enough to keep trying to make it work.
You are still free to come and go as you wish, but it will not be the same...at least not for some time.
Maybe you can work on it or at least clear things up so you know where you have eachother

I think your right, it is silly.But if you want to use that scenario you would have to remember that at the outset of the marriage the pre-nup stipulated that i would have certain rights and now the wife has determined that those rights and that agreement are now null and void just because she says so and without any consent on my behalf.

 

[Tirilej]

I think your right, it is silly.But if you want to use that scenario you would have to remember that at the outset of the marriage the pre-nup stipulated that i would have certain rights and now the wife has determined that those rights and that agreement are now null and void just because she says so and without any consent on my behalf.

Not really. She did let you keep some of it
Of course you're not satisfied, but in the end you will have to accept what have happened.

If it's possible to repair I don't know, but I think you need to communicate directly with them. They will not respond here, and they will not change their minds because of this thread. I'm sure of that!

 

[mac72]

Not really. She did let you keep some of it
Of course you're not satisfied, but in the end you will have to accept what have happened.

If it's possible to repair I don't know, but I think you need to communicate directly with them. They will not respond here, and they will not change their minds because of this thread. I'm sure of that!

It wasn't for her to impose her will on me and decide without agreement what i was getting when there was already an agreement in place which said otherwise.Christ i'm glad i'm not your husband/wife LOL

 

[Tirilej]

It wasn't for her to impose her will on me and decide without agreement what i was getting when there was already an agreement in place which said otherwise.Christ i'm glad i'm not your husband/wife LOL

For some reason I never got married

I still say that you're wrong though because the rules was there from the beginning for them to change if they felt needed.
I would probably be just as upset as you if I got that email.

I still suggest you take it easy and try and communicate in a nice way with them. Being nice and polite can take you wherever you want to go.
Being the opposite or making demands will not...

 

[mac72]

For some reason I never got married

I still say that you're wrong though because the rules was there from the beginning for them to change if they felt needed.
I would probably be just as upset as you if I got that email.

I still suggest you take it easy and try and communicate in a nice way with them. Being nice and polite can take you wherever you want to go.
Being the opposite or making demands will not...

If your ever getting married pass me the email of your fiance so i can forewarn him/her with a copy of this thread!!!!!!!!!
The rule you are referring to is completely unenforceable if its purpose is simply to allow one side to do whatever they like regardless of what agreements are in place.Please think about it, a rule of that nature would mean that anytime any casino you played with could refuse you any cashout for any reason without recourse.As i said before just because someone incorporates it in their t+c's dosen't necessarily mean it has any value.

 

[Tirilej]

If your ever getting married pass me the email of your fiance so i can forewarn him/her with a copy of this thread!!!!!!!!!
The rule you are referring to is completely unenforceable if its purpose is simply to allow one side to do whatever they like regardless of what agreements are in place.Please think about it, a rule of that nature would mean that anytime any casino you played with could refuse you any cashout for any reason without recourse.As i said before just because someone incorporates it in their t+c's dosen't necessarily mean it has any value.

It has all value that is needed. Remember that this is not about a cashout being denied. It's a promotion they don't feel you're entitled to anymore.
It's a huge difference.

This place is fair and the people behind it really are doing their best to be fair to everyone, and be generous. But it's still a business.

I wanted to try and make you see it in a different way. I didn't succeed, but at least I tried.

 

[mac72]

It has all value that is needed. Remember that this is not about a cashout being denied. It's a promotion they don't feel you're entitled to anymore.
It's a huge difference.

This place is fair and the people behind it really are doing their best to be fair to everyone, and be generous. But it's still a business.

I wanted to try and make you see it in a different way. I didn't succeed, but at least I tried.

It has all the value that is needed - IF YOU BELIEVE THAT ANY OPERATOR CAN TREAT YOU WHATEVER WAY THEY LIKE AND YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE.

It is a promotion which INDUCES play and it is not for them to feel that i'm not entitled to it anymore when it is for LIFE.

It is not about a cashout i was trying to make you see it in a different way and show you that they cannot retrospectively apply terms to an agreement that had a defined time period and by definition would over ride any other time period being applied that did not have the consent of both parties.You said it yourself it's a business and businesses have rules to abide by.

 

[Tirilej]

It has all the value that is needed - IF YOU BELIEVE THAT ANY OPERATOR CAN TREAT YOU WHATEVER WAY THEY LIKE AND YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE.

It is a promotion which INDUCES play and it is not for them to feel that i'm not entitled to it anymore when it is for LIFE.

It is not about a cashout i was trying to make you see it in a different way and show you that they cannot retrospectively apply terms to an agreement that had a defined time period and by definition would over ride any other time period being applied that did not have the consent of both parties.You said it yourself it's a business and businesses have rules to abide by.

You're really stubborn!

Put it this way then. If you have put a lot of money in...and you still are...Then how come they are willing to lose you?
Are you maybe as stubborn when asking them about...well whatever it is you want?
Are you someone that is difficult to talk to?
Are you rude and demanding?

I'm trying to see the reason behind their decision, and if it's not about money then you have to ask yourself what the real reason are.
Are you a person that value a good relationship or are you a PITA to deal with?

 

[mac72]

You're really stubborn!

Put it this way then. If you have put a lot of money in...and you still are...Then how come they are willing to lose you?
Are you maybe as stubborn when asking them about...well whatever it is you want?
Are you someone that is difficult to talk to?
Are you rude and demanding?

I'm trying to see the reason behind their decision, and if it's not about money then you have to ask yourself what the real reason are.
Are you a person that value a good relationship or are you a PITA to deal with?

I already posted early in this thread a communication with Jonathan from 32red which happened last month.I believe that answers all your queries above

 

[hoff1985]

I only flipped through this thread hope i didn't miss anything.

IMHO even if i know that "for life" can be changed anytime of course i would stop playing if they will send me the same e-mail. for the folloeing reasons:

1.) What does it hurt them soo bad to have you in "for life" status?
2.) They decided on one point to give you a "for life" status, so they mist be have taken into consideration that your gambling habits could change and still they wanted to give younghe message: you're a club rouge member for life.
3.) although they are still an incredible operator, they are not without competetors... There are MG casinos that pay way faster then 32Red. If they take away their good bonuses by throwing people out of club rouge etc, they will loose players fast to other reliable MG casinos.

I don't get it why they're doing those changes, just don't get it.

I HOPE that casino itself stays as good as they were. i recommended 32Red to many people around me including family, and if they start eithh more actions like this, this would be incredibly dissappinting for me, as i was sure that i can recommend this brand to anyone.

Let's see. I haven't received an e-mail so far. I just really hope it doesn't go downhill from here...

PS: What aslo bothers me is that the great rep doesn't explain everything here in the forum, as both reps were so active and "second to none" before.

 

[mac72]

Just received from 32red:

Hi XXXX,



I hope you are well.



I can see you have emailed both Ed and Pat displaying your displeasure with this decision and I’m sure you’ll receive a response in due course. This decision has not been taken lightly and taken at a business level, with this in mind we will do our utmost to provide you with answers to your questions and provide information you seek.



In response to this email XXXX, we do not agree with your assessment of this as ‘fraudulent misrepresentation’. The ‘for life’ wording displayed in the loyalty section was part of the mechanics of the loyalty software we brought in back in February 2012. In line with forth coming regulatory changes we are upgrading many different parts of the software and as a result the cosmetics of the loyalty tier page in the client changed. We have always reserved the right to restrict eligibility to Club Rouge, this has been stipulated in the Terms and Conditions of Club Rouge since it’s inception.



Following this email I notice a further request for information which you sent asking for clarification on 6 points and have provided my feedback to these in red text below:



1) At what date did i join the casino

[07/09/2005]


2) At what date did i become Club Rouge

[16/02/2006]


3) Was the status given to me 'Club Rouge for Life'

[No]


4) If the answer to 3 is yes please advise if you are dead as i can confirm i am not


5) You say that accounts are reviewed quarterly can you please advise for each quarter since i attained club rouge status my i) deposits ii)withdrawals iii) turnover iv) days active out of days available (I only want to see it ,it does not change my position that life means life)

[most of these stats can be obtained for you, but I’m sure you would understand it will take a while for us to compile this volume of data. Given the decision was made on the back of Q3 2014 review, I’ve attached stats these stats for now, please confirm if you would like us to provide the same data for each Quarter since registering your account.]

6) have i now or at anytime since i joined been in breach of ANY of the casino's rules and regulations

[Not breached rules or regulations, what has happened is that we has decided to invoke point 4 of the Club Rouge Terms & Conditions]

In closing XXXX, whilst I understand this is frustrating, the decision to remove your Club Rouge status is final. We perhaps optimistically hope that this hasn’t soured your opinion of the casino too much and will continue to montitor your gaming if you do.

Kind Regards,

Jonathan
Player Support Manager
32Red
Second to None

We are available to chat instantly 24/7 click here

 

[mimi26]

Ok I dont take much notice to Club rouge, so can someone please tell me what the benefits are compared to a non club rouge member?, I am club rouge but to be honest never really noticed much difference apart from the birthday chips

 

[Tirilej]

Ok I dont take much notice to Club rouge, so can someone please tell me what the benefits are compared to a non club rouge member?, I am club rouge but to be honest never really noticed much difference apart from the birthday chips

Then you maybe should visit their homepage and read about it. It is a big difference, but it is possible to live without it

 

[mac72]

here are the figures for q3

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ok I dont take much notice to Club rouge, so can someone please tell me what the benefits are compared to a non club rouge member?, I am club rouge but to be honest never really noticed much difference apart from the birthday chips

Apart from bigger bonuses, there are not any significant benefits.

I do recall back when I was made Club Rouge that there was this strong impression that it was "for life", in other words, unlike other loyalty schemes, there was no requirement to earn a set number of rubies per month, make a certain number of deposits, etc. The only way to get booted was for there to be a decision made by the management, the same way one got in. I have not heard until now of anyone being kicked out of Club Rouge, so this reinforced the impression that it was "for life" unless one committed a serious transgression that warranted getting booted. I am sure that this would not necessarily be confined to a breach of the terms, but might encompass things like general behaviour, such as being abusive or rude to CS, making false and malicious statements about 32Red in a public forum, and of course the thorny issue of how one approached the bonuses. 32Red did NOT want the bonuses to be the focus for anyone wanting inclusion in Club Rouge, so if anyone cited the bigger bonuses as the reason for desiring admission, they would be certain NOT to get it. Similarly, an appeal based almost exclusively on the loss of the enhanced bonuses isn't going to get anywhere.

The "business decision" may well be related to Club Rouge as a whole, and whether the enhanced bonuses are going to the wrong players. The purpose of any bonus is to keep a player playing, and outside of Club Rouge, we have seen a few cases where players have been taken off the bonus list because their play is too bonus focussed.

One case was a player who had joined all 4 skins, but would only deposit once a day on the skin offering the best bonus. After a while, 32Red took him off the bonus list for all but one casino, making it a "take it or leave it" of the daily offer, rather than being able to pick one from four which was the best. This is nothing new, 32Red have ALWAYS done this where they feel players are taking too much advantage of the bonuses, and not really participating in other aspects when a bonus is not involved.

There is likely to be a better explanation given to the complainant, and an idea of what criteria might make them eligible for review next quarter. The new loyalty terms do state that players who have reached Gold status are reviewed for POSSIBLE inclusion in Club Rouge, but it's no guarantee, so it shouldn't be possible to game the system simply by doing the minimum necessary to achieve Gold and hang on to it for a whole quarter.

 

[mac72]

Apart from bigger bonuses, there are not any significant benefits.

I do recall back when I was made Club Rouge that there was this strong impression that it was "for life", in other words, unlike other loyalty schemes, there was no requirement to earn a set number of rubies per month, make a certain number of deposits, etc. The only way to get booted was for there to be a decision made by the management, the same way one got in. I have not heard until now of anyone being kicked out of Club Rouge, so this reinforced the impression that it was "for life" unless one committed a serious transgression that warranted getting booted. I am sure that this would not necessarily be confined to a breach of the terms, but might encompass things like general behaviour, such as being abusive or rude to CS, making false and malicious statements about 32Red in a public forum, and of course the thorny issue of how one approached the bonuses. 32Red did NOT want the bonuses to be the focus for anyone wanting inclusion in Club Rouge, so if anyone cited the bigger bonuses as the reason for desiring admission, they would be certain NOT to get it. Similarly, an appeal based almost exclusively on the loss of the enhanced bonuses isn't going to get anywhere.

The "business decision" may well be related to Club Rouge as a whole, and whether the enhanced bonuses are going to the wrong players. The purpose of any bonus is to keep a player playing, and outside of Club Rouge, we have seen a few cases where players have been taken off the bonus list because their play is too bonus focussed.

One case was a player who had joined all 4 skins, but would only deposit once a day on the skin offering the best bonus. After a while, 32Red took him off the bonus list for all but one casino, making it a "take it or leave it" of the daily offer, rather than being able to pick one from four which was the best. This is nothing new, 32Red have ALWAYS done this where they feel players are taking too much advantage of the bonuses, and not really participating in other aspects when a bonus is not involved.

There is likely to be a better explanation given to the complainant, and an idea of what criteria might make them eligible for review next quarter. The new loyalty terms do state that players who have reached Gold status are reviewed for POSSIBLE inclusion in Club Rouge, but it's no guarantee, so it shouldn't be possible to game the system simply by doing the minimum necessary to achieve Gold and hang on to it for a whole quarter.

To clarify my position in relation to the above my play has been pretty consistent since attaining club rouge status in 2006 (i will post the figures when i get them), i have not been rude or abusive as the earlier email posted by Jonathan i was thanked for my patronage,have not made any false or malicious statements about 32red on any forum,and 32red is the only one of the skins that i play on (sorry i have a golden lounge account but i've only used it once a long time ago). In essence i believe i've been a model player and as Jonathan has said the decision was made in q3 and you will see from the figures posted that this quarter had a £4741.91 loss on my behalf.What is really sad about this whole scenario is that i started playing when they were still something of an unknown and it took a lot of faith to put money online with such an operator instead of say ladbrokes who were MG at the time and with who i had been playing for about 6 years and attained VIP status with quite a few benefits.Had i stayed with ladbrokes and given them my level of play from 2006 to now i would be on a high VIP level with them instead i now have lost all of my vip status with them due to lack of play and will have to start looking around for an operator that will treat me fairly.The only reason i gave 32red my business was i liked the idea of dealing with a Company where you could lift the phone and speak to the main man (Ed was always available then) and it gave a personal feel to something which i liked.The very essence of club rouge is that you are 'invited' and as such the criteria to get in is unknown and it appears the criteria to stay in is also unknown (regardless that i still maintain life means life).If any of you on the forum think that reflects an operator that is playing with a straight bat i'd like to hear from you as it should now be apparent to you that any status you have within Club Rouge can be removed without any explanation as to what criteria you have not met.
You also need to be aware that club rouge won't make that much of difference when playing slots but i play video poker (75%VP and roulette probably 25%) always have and under club rouge a 100 bonus carries a 3000 bonus playthrough on VP but on gold level that playthrough rises to 30000 - i shouldn't need to explain to anyone here the ramifications of that.
I'm quite frankly disgusted with the treatment i have had and am going to reflect on this for a day or two to consider my next course of action.It will be interesting to see the comments now all the 'facts' are out there.

 

[vinylweatherman]

To clarify my position in relation to the above my play has been pretty consistent since attaining club rouge status in 2006 (i will post the figures when i get them), i have not been rude or abusive as the earlier email posted by Jonathan i was thanked for my patronage,have not made any false or malicious statements about 32red on any forum,and 32red is the only one of the skins that i play on (sorry i have a golden lounge account but i've only used it once a long time ago). In essence i believe i've been a model player and as Jonathan has said the decision was made in q3 and you will see from the figures posted that this quarter had a £4741.91 loss on my behalf.What is really sad about this whole scenario is that i started playing when they were still something of an unknown and it took a lot of faith to put money online with such an operator instead of say ladbrokes who were MG at the time and with who i had been playing for about 6 years and attained VIP status with quite a few benefits.Had i stayed with ladbrokes and given them my level of play from 2006 to now i would be on a high VIP level with them instead i now have lost all of my vip status with them due to lack of play and will have to start looking around for an operator that will treat me fairly.The only reason i gave 32red my business was i liked the idea of dealing with a Company where you could lift the phone and speak to the main man (Ed was always available then) and it gave a personal feel to something which i liked.The very essence of club rouge is that you are 'invited' and as such the criteria to get in is unknown and it appears the criteria to stay in is also unknown (regardless that i still maintain life means life).If any of you on the forum think that reflects an operator that is playing with a straight bat i'd like to hear from you as it should now be apparent to you that any status you have within Club Rouge can be removed without any explanation as to what criteria you have not met.
You also need to be aware that club rouge won't make that much of difference when playing slots but i play video poker (75%VP and roulette probably 25%) always have and under club rouge a 100 bonus carries a 3000 bonus playthrough on VP but on gold level that playthrough rises to 30000 - i shouldn't need to explain to anyone here the ramifications of that.
I'm quite frankly disgusted with the treatment i have had and am going to reflect on this for a day or two to consider my next course of action.It will be interesting to see the comments now all the 'facts' are out there.

This could be why you have been booted.

You have a very good deal with VP & Roulette, enhanced by the Club Rouge benefits. It's potentially +EV. The fact that you lost is not relevant, 32Red look at the potential long term effects of a player's style, and if it's long term +EV, it's likely to be something that will get you relegated to a more -EV deal, which is Gold status in this case.

I play slots when I have claimed a bonus and have some WR, only switching to other games occasionally once WR is completed. I haven't yet received this email, yet far from being down, I am well up over the life of my account, and up over the past year by a not inconsiderable amount. If membership was based on how well a player was doing, I would have been booted from Club Rouge years ago. Most other casinos HAVE withdrawn my VIP status as a result of me achieving a lifetime win of 4 figures, even though my activity levels hadn't changed. I have tended to retain VIP status where I am down, even if my activity levels have reduced.

 

[suzecat]

Don't get it mac72, can you explain your thought process behind having to be in Club Rouge even though 32Red doesn't want you any more? Don't understand why you can't seem to move on (with grace) and instead appear determined to be a PITA? The members have patiently tried to nicely explain to you that "for life" means nothing legally. Yet here we are, less patiently still explaining to a brick wall.

What is it going to take? You can continue pushing and I have never seen that behavior get anyone anywhere (except maybe booted from here or the casino). It is not necessary to repeat yourself, ad nauseam, as we have already read your previous posts on this matter. I, for one, would like some fresh new reasons why you can't move on. 32Red has asked for a divorce and this is where the smart player grants their request. Unless you really want to see how far they will go? Remember you still have a choice at this point.

I need to add a disclaimer here which states the content of this post is based on my own personal experience and/or opinion and not based on anything I may or may not have learned through any other means.

 

[mac72]

This could be why you have been booted.

You have a very good deal with VP & Roulette, enhanced by the Club Rouge benefits. It's potentially +EV. The fact that you lost is not relevant, 32Red look at the potential long term effects of a player's style, and if it's long term +EV, it's likely to be something that will get you relegated to a more -EV deal, which is Gold status in this case.

I play slots when I have claimed a bonus and have some WR, only switching to other games occasionally once WR is completed. I haven't yet received this email, yet far from being down, I am well up over the life of my account, and up over the past year by a not inconsiderable amount. If membership was based on how well a player was doing, I would have been booted from Club Rouge years ago. Most other casinos HAVE withdrawn my VIP status as a result of me achieving a lifetime win of 4 figures, even though my activity levels hadn't changed. I have tended to retain VIP status where I am down, even if my activity levels have reduced.

The Club Rouge wagering requirements are the same for everyone and specificically designed with a 100% weighting on EACH AND EVERY game,and they know more about +EV than any of us.Every pound you wager counts regardless of what its on.Its been that way for 8 years and my play has been pretty consistent.Also bear in mind that their email to me said they had reviewed my play and the decision was made in q3 "Given the decision was made on the back of Q3 2014 review" and i can post the rest of the figures for all the years up to now when they have sent them over.
If i was to accept the position they have taken i am effectively sitting not knowing what i did wrong (as i've been doing exactly the same thing all along),not having any firm direction from them what to do right and then not knowing how to keep it right.If the account had been running a year in club rouge maybe that would fly but 8 years custom and practice, come on guys lets get serious.Thats wouldn't be an acceptable situation for anyone that i know.

Don't get it mac72, can you explain your thought process behind having to be in Club Rouge even though 32Red doesn't want you any more? Don't understand why you can't seem to move on (with grace) and instead appear determined to be a PITA? The members have patiently tried to nicely explain to you that "for life" means nothing legally. Yet here we are, less patiently still explaining to a brick wall.

What is it going to take? You can continue pushing and I have never seen that behavior get anyone anywhere (except maybe booted from here or the casino). It is not necessary to repeat yourself, ad nauseam, as we have already read your previous posts on this matter. I, for one, would like some fresh new reasons why you can't move on. 32Red has asked for a divorce and this is where the smart player grants their request. Unless you really want to see how far they will go? Remember you still have a choice at this point.

I need to add a disclaimer here which states the content of this post is based on my own personal experience and/or opinion and not based on anything I may or may not have learned through any other means.

So i go away (with grace) and they get to act in any manner they see fit? Having read my full posts you call me a PITA? I started this thread late last night uk time and as their majority of players are uk i'll wait to see what other feedback comes tonight.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The Club Rouge wagering requirements are the same for everyone and specificically designed with a 100% weighting on EACH AND EVERY game,and they know more about +EV than any of us.Every pound you wager counts regardless of what its on.Its been that way for 8 years and my play has been pretty consistent.Also bear in mind that their email to me said they had reviewed my play and the decision was made in q3 "Given the decision was made on the back of Q3 2014 review" and i can post the rest of the figures for all the years up to now when they have sent them over.
If i was to accept the position they have taken i am effectively sitting not knowing what i did wrong (as i've been doing exactly the same thing all along),not having any firm direction from them what to do right and then not knowing how to keep it right.If the account had been running a year in club rouge maybe that would fly but 8 years custom and practice, come on guys lets get serious.Thats wouldn't be an acceptable situation for anyone that i know.

It's likely that this idea of reviewing Club Rouge accounts for demotion is a recent thing. For 8 years they have "let it go", but they are now looking at the value to them of their Club Rouge players. If the value of keeping a player in Club Rouge works out to be negative, a common sense business decision would be to move them to a tier where they might produce some value. If you quit, they make nothing, but this is still better than making a loss. I had forgotten about this other advantage since I don't use it, but having VP weighted 100% is a clear advantage mathematically for the player.

If you wager through 3000 on Jacks of Better, the house edge is a little less than 0.5%, so on 3000 of wagering, the casino can expect to win 15 off the player over the long term. In other words, every 100 bonus claimed by the player is worth 85 to them as "free money" after making WR. The surprise therefore is why you didn't get the boot earlier. VP is also volatile, so you haven't actually made 85 from every 100 of bonus, but over the long term, you will given the same pattern of play.

On Gold, you have to wager 30000, which means the casino can expect to win 150 from you for every 100 bonus they grant over the long term. This means that you become a profitable player.

For slots, it's different. A Club Rouge player can expect to lose over the long term, although with good bankroll management and some lucky hits, they can hold their own or even get well ahead. The maths, however, points to the casino eventually winning the money back.

 

[mac72]

It's likely that this idea of reviewing Club Rouge accounts for demotion is a recent thing. For 8 years they have "let it go", but they are now looking at the value to them of their Club Rouge players. If the value of keeping a player in Club Rouge works out to be negative, a common sense business decision would be to move them to a tier where they might produce some value. If you quit, they make nothing, but this is still better than making a loss. I had forgotten about this other advantage since I don't use it, but having VP weighted 100% is a clear advantage mathematically for the player.

If you wager through 3000 on Jacks of Better, the house edge is a little less than 0.5%, so on 3000 of wagering, the casino can expect to win 15 off the player over the long term. In other words, every 100 bonus claimed by the player is worth 85 to them as "free money" after making WR. The surprise therefore is why you didn't get the boot earlier. VP is also volatile, so you haven't actually made 85 from every 100 of bonus, but over the long term, you will given the same pattern of play.

On Gold, you have to wager 30000, which means the casino can expect to win 150 from you for every 100 bonus they grant over the long term. This means that you become a profitable player.

For slots, it's different. A Club Rouge player can expect to lose over the long term, although with good bankroll management and some lucky hits, they can hold their own or even get well ahead. The maths, however, points to the casino eventually winning the money back.

I played the same before i was invited to club rouge as i played after (dont like slots) so they knew what they were getting and its been that way all along.The 100% weighting isn't unique to me and was obviously a decision they made to lure players in

 

[shanetospin]

Well I for one sympathise with the OP. If Club Rouge is or "was" stated to be for life, and it turns out it can be withdrawn at any time, then this leads me to believe that anything the casino says, or does, is worthless in future - that is how I interpret it. How can a player trust a casino that says one thing and does another?

What about the players that have spent a fortune to achieve that status? Regardless of what it states in the terms and conditions a player builds up trust with a casino, which is exactly why people have and play at their favourite casinos.

I'm going to be honest, I am quite shocked about this and think that it is an unfair decision without providing any justification other than we review accounts every quarter.

That said, and I have read most of the posts so far, if the OP has accepted a bonus of sorts after raising this as an issue then that is basically accepting that you agree to having that Club Rouge status removed IMO and you should leave it at that. I for one will not be impressed if I am next to loose my status, because regardless of what people think about Club Rouge, some players value it more than others. I am one of those that values that status and it plays a massive part in choosing this casino as my main casino group to play at.

But hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

 

[mac72]

Well I for one sympathise with the OP. If Club Rouge is or "was" stated to be for life, and it turns out it can be withdrawn at any time, then this leads me to believe that anything the casino says, or does, is worthless in future - that is how I interpret it. How can a player trust a casino that says one thing and does another?

What about the players that have spent a fortune to achieve that status? Regardless of what it states in the terms and conditions a player builds up trust with a casino, which is exactly why people have and play at their favourite casinos.

I'm going to be honest, I am quite shocked about this and think that it is an unfair decision without providing any justification other than we review accounts every quarter.

That said, and I have read most of the posts so far, if the OP has accepted a bonus of sorts after raising this as an issue then that is basically accepting that you agree to having that Club Rouge status removed IMO and you should leave it at that. I for one will not be impressed if I am next to loose my status, because regardless of what people think about Club Rouge, some players value it more than others. I am one of those that values that status and it plays a massive part in choosing this casino as my main casino group to play at.

But hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

No i have not accepted any bonus or played at all since the letter of yesterdays date which came out of the blue and was the first i heard of this as i didn't wish to accept the new conditions imposed on me.

 

[shanetospin]

No i have not accepted any bonus or played at all since the letter of yesterdays date which came out of the blue and was the first i heard of this as i didn't wish to accept the new conditions imposed on me.

I stand corrected I must have read one of the posts wrong- my apologies! (Retraction of bonus comment). I therefore stand by the rest of my post

 

[deepsky2]

Well I for one sympathise with the OP. If Club Rouge is or "was" stated to be for life, and it turns out it can be withdrawn at any time, then this leads me to believe that anything the casino says, or does, is worthless in future - that is how I interpret it. How can a player trust a casino that says one thing and does another?

What about the players that have spent a fortune to achieve that status? Regardless of what it states in the terms and conditions a player builds up trust with a casino, which is exactly why people have and play at their favourite casinos.

I'm going to be honest, I am quite shocked about this and think that it is an unfair decision without providing any justification other than we review accounts every quarter.

That said, and I have read most of the posts so far, if the OP has accepted a bonus of sorts after raising this as an issue then that is basically accepting that you agree to having that Club Rouge status removed IMO and you should leave it at that. I for one will not be impressed if I am next to loose my status, because regardless of what people think about Club Rouge, some players value it more than others. I am one of those that values that status and it plays a massive part in choosing this casino as my main casino group to play at.

But hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

I agree with you 100%..........100%

 

[mac72]

Well I for one sympathise with the OP. If Club Rouge is or "was" stated to be for life, and it turns out it can be withdrawn at any time, then this leads me to believe that anything the casino says, or does, is worthless in future - that is how I interpret it. How can a player trust a casino that says one thing and does another?

What about the players that have spent a fortune to achieve that status? Regardless of what it states in the terms and conditions a player builds up trust with a casino, which is exactly why people have and play at their favourite casinos.

I'm going to be honest, I am quite shocked about this and think that it is an unfair decision without providing any justification other than we review accounts every quarter.

That said, and I have read most of the posts so far, if the OP has accepted a bonus of sorts after raising this as an issue then that is basically accepting that you agree to having that Club Rouge status removed IMO and you should leave it at that. I for one will not be impressed if I am next to loose my status, because regardless of what people think about Club Rouge, some players value it more than others. I am one of those that values that status and it plays a massive part in choosing this casino as my main casino group to play at.

But hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

Sorry Shanetospin i was wondering where you got the idea i accepted some sort of bonus after this issue was raised.I think your referring to the earlier post in which i thanked Jonathan from 32red for the bonus chips added to my account.This was a different issue entirely (and i was only posting it as one of the replies on the forum implied i was difficult to deal with and unreasonable) Their loyalty page said i had earned £9110 but only cashed £3280 and as you will see from the email i actually made the point that i trusted them enough to take their word i had not been shortchanged and did not put anyone to the trouble of carrying out a full analysis and sending it to me even though it looked on the face of it there was nearly a 6grand discrepancy and owed to me.I don't know how to get the picture uploaded of the loyalty page as it says the file size is too big but if someone gives me a step by step guide as to how to resize (not that tech savvy) it i'll gladly upload it for clarification purposes should that be necessary.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Good evening all.

I was in two minds whether to reply to the thread as I can't comment on individual accounts but there are a couple of things I would like to clarify.

- Club Rouge has never been promoted as 'Club Rouge For Life' - due to limitations on the loyalty system, when we moved over to a new system there was a message in the lobby saying 'Tier for life' which we had no control over. The T&C clearly stated from day one that we reserve the right to remove Club Rouge privileges if needed. We removed the Tier For Life message when we were technically able to as to avoid confusion.

- One of the posts suggests that all Club Rouge players get 100% playthrough across all games. This is not the case.

- As someone suggested this is part of an overhaul of our loyalty program. We will soon be adding more tiers and doing a general refresh, hopefully adding more loyalty benefits at each tier.

As I say, I can't comment on individual cases and it seems the OP is already being looked after by Jonathan, but as some members asked me to respond, I wanted to add my 2p.

Thanks
Mark

 

[mac72]

Good evening all.

I was in two minds whether to reply to the thread as I can't comment on individual accounts but there are a couple of things I would like to clarify.

- Club Rouge has never been promoted as 'Club Rouge For Life' - due to limitations on the loyalty system, when we moved over to a new system there was a message in the lobby saying 'Tier for life' which we had no control over. The T&C clearly stated from day one that we reserve the right to remove Club Rouge privileges if needed. We removed the Tier For Life message when we were technically able to as to avoid confusion.

- One of the posts suggests that all Club Rouge players get 100% playthrough across all games. This is not the case.

- As someone suggested this is part of an overhaul of our loyalty program. We will soon be adding more tiers and doing a general refresh, hopefully adding more loyalty benefits at each tier.

As I say, I can't comment on individual cases and it seems the OP is already being looked after by Jonathan, but as some members asked me to respond, I wanted to add my 2p.

Thanks
Mark

So Mark just to clarify you are saying that i did not have on my loyalty page "Your status is set to Club Rouge for life".I would just like to be sure on that one.

If the post i made was incorrect about the playthrough applying to all Club Rouge players i apologise but i assumed (possibly incorrectly) Club Rouge was Club Rouge and there were no sub tiers within it.As you are well aware who i am can you confirm on the forum that i did have 100% playthrough across all games please.If not i can email support to confirm and post the response.
And i'm not really being 'looked after' by Jonathan, i have posted his reply and the forum members can make up their own mind if that constitutes being looked after

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

So Mark just to clarify you are saying that i did not have on my loyalty page "Your status is set to Club Rouge for life".I would just like to be sure on that one.

He's saying it was there, but it wasn't any of their doing, they had no choice over what was written there until recently.