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Did 32red get rid of Club Rouge for life?

Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Location
toronto ontario canada
Any time I checked my loyalty points It always said I'm Club Rouge for life now it says congratulations you reached the highest level Club Rouge but also shows tier points and my current points are at 2nd level does this mean I'll drop from Club Rouge If I don't get my points to 1000000 what happened to Club Rouge for life?
 
Yes it does show this but up till today it showed different saying I'm Club Rouge for life it longer says that. And shows tier levels and where I'm at and this has never showed before well since I became Club Rouge a few years back.

I know that they are doing updates with the banking pages and probably all sort of things right now.
I hope they won't change anything with Club Rouge though.
I guess they are stuck with me for life instead :p
 
I now much clearer understand why 32red would not let me have Club Rouge as I was very disapointed looking at my loyalty and often deposits. I had a true gem of email from Jonathan before closing my Dollars account and now have GoWild account active only in pounds..... :lolup:

So to anyone stating I cant win at 32Red or they are cheating me the slots pay crap. Then I would say take a h.... :D

So in total I am up with 7K total :)

Many thanks for your recent contact to 32Red, hope you are well.

You had had your account with us since the 26/06/2004, so yes, quite a long time indeed! J

On the life of your account you have deposited 24,117.61, withdrawn 31,121.32 and we have claimed 3520.32 in bonuses.

Your RTP on the life if your account currently stands at 101% and you do not have any bets in play.

I know your account will be changing but at least you can still receive the same Customer service from everyone here 24/7

I hope I have suffuciently answered your questions but if I have missed anything please don’t hesitate to contact us J

Kind Regards,

Stephen
Player Support Representative
32Red
Second to None


 
I have checked mine, and it's true.

However, the Club Rouge tier does not have a note about how many points a player has to earn to maintain the status, unlike the new levels of Gold and Silver, which stipulate that players must earn a certain number of points in the current period in order to maintain the status. It's also a huge leap between Gold and Club Rouge with 1,000,000 points needed. It looks like it's intended to be "impossible" for players to achieve Club Rouge through the levels unless they are a "whale", and if they were, 32Red would want to keep hold of them so if achieved through getting 1,000,000 points, I would expect it to be honoured.

Most players will probably be granted Club Rouge by invite, the same as it's always been. The text is probably MGS standardised, and it may not be possible for operators to have their own custom text as 32Red once had.

I have also seen this "impossible" gap at Betway between the lower tiers and the top two, where it's 1,000,000 and 2,500,000 points needed. The VIP host also once told me that they had a player who hit REALLY big (6 figures), but tried to make it over this huge divide to reach the top tiers, and failed. I said if I had won that much, I wouldn't really care about squandering it in order to advance to the top tier, I would be far too busy spending the money to make use of the higher privilege:D
 
Back in June I asked Mark if I didnt play for a long time would that affect my Club Rouge and he replied that at this time time it would not affect my Club Rouge but he did say this may change in the future and when I saw the change I kinda panic a bit. Last night I sent customer service a e-mail asking what happen to the you are club rouge for life they replied back that this is change is only cosmetic as my Club Rouge status and the way I earn points has in no way been affected.Btw I did not take a break since the actually played even more alot more.
 
Back in June I asked Mark if I didnt play for a long time would that affect my Club Rouge and he replied that at this time time it would not affect my Club Rouge but he did say this may change in the future and when I saw the change I kinda panic a bit. Last night I sent customer service a e-mail asking what happen to the you are club rouge for life they replied back that this is change is only cosmetic as my Club Rouge status and the way I earn points has in no way been affected.


I expect they want to reserve the right to downgrade a Club Rouge player under certain circumstances. It's possible to be bonus banned, yet remain in Club Rouge. This can happen anyway where a player is seen to only play when the best possible bonus is on offer, but not play at other times. The Club Rouge bonus is the biggest perk, so removing that is more or less a temporary suspension of Club Rouge membership. The other benefit is 200% extra on loyalty points, but this will chiefly benefit a regular player, rather than someone who only goes after the 100% offers.
 
Thanks for reminding me about Loyalty Points :thumbsup:
I'm always forgetting this little perk - I've only claimed them once or twice in 8 years!
I have $45 worth sitting there - I think I'll save them for a rainy day... which considering winter is approaching the UK fast, might not be very long! :p

KK
 
I expect they want to reserve the right to downgrade a Club Rouge player under certain circumstances. It's possible to be bonus banned, yet remain in Club Rouge. This can happen anyway where a player is seen to only play when the best possible bonus is on offer, but not play at other times. The Club Rouge bonus is the biggest perk, so removing that is more or less a temporary suspension of Club Rouge membership. The other benefit is 200% extra on loyalty points, but this will chiefly benefit a regular player, rather than someone who only goes after the 100% offers.

I just don't like that for years there telling Club Rouge players including my self your Club Rouge is set for life and now they removed that. If there are changes I think they really need to honor for life to the Club Rouge players that already had for life stated taking it away really meant for life which was stated before was really a lie that if indeed if they implement new changes were existing Club Rouge players loose there status I think is unfair but just hope it is only cosmetic as c/s stated.
 
I just don't like that for years there telling Club Rouge players including my self your Club Rouge is set for life and now they removed that. If there are changes I think they really need to honor for life to the Club Rouge players that already had for life stated taking it away really meant for life which was stated before was really a lie that if indeed if they implement new changes were existing Club Rouge players loose there status I think is unfair but just hope it is only cosmetic as c/s stated.

So far, there is no evidence that any player has had their Club Rouge status revoked. However, having a CS rep "hedging their bets" rather than making a clear statement that "it's for life" doesn't help, especially when the "for life" statement disappears due to a cosmetic software update.

I am over 100K ahead, yet I am STILL Club Rouge, and STILL get the Daily Deal at Club Rouge rates. At any other casino I would have been bonus banned ages ago (and have been under similar, but less overpowering, circumstances).

If there is going to be a change, I think I will be among the first to see an effect;)
 
So far, there is no evidence that any player has had their Club Rouge status revoked. However, having a CS rep "hedging their bets" rather than making a clear statement that "it's for life" doesn't help, especially when the "for life" statement disappears due to a cosmetic software update.

I am over 100K ahead, yet I am STILL Club Rouge, and STILL get the Daily Deal at Club Rouge rates. At any other casino I would have been bonus banned ages ago (and have been under similar, but less overpowering, circumstances).

If there is going to be a change, I think I will be among the first to see an effect;)

Are you saying that your withdrawals over the life of your account there exceed your deposits by 100k pounds?
 
It's also a huge leap between Gold and Club Rouge with 1,000,000 points needed.
The only way to get into Club Rouge is by being invited. See: Old / Expired Link
Since the information about getting 1 million loyalty points conflicts with the information on the webpage, 32Red should remove that silly 1 million loyalty point requirement.

I am over 100K ahead
Recently, I was about 8k up at 32Red. I believe their software is truly random. :)
Although, I will say the blackjack seems to have some massive dealer winning streaks.
I've been so freaked out by the BJ at 32Red that is scares me to play it, but it's probably just my bad luck. :(

I have trouble maintaining even silver status at 32Red. Good job to the people who got into Club Rouge!

I was told that they are reviewing the entire points system as of now....and no change to the Club rogue status until then.
Well, I hope they make it easier for regular, smaller depositors like myself to maintain some tier benefits. In my last deposit of $25 I only made 2 loyalty points. :eek: The way it's set up is unfair to some players. Besides, they don't give too much for being silver, I don't think it would be a big ask to reduce the required loyalty points to 250/month to maintain it.
 
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I was told that they are reviewing the entire points system as of now....and no change to the Club rogue status until then.

I hope they do not suddenly come up with minimum points for CR as well
 
Yes, but most of this, if not all, was down to a couple of monster wins on the fruities.

That's awesome most other MG casinos probably would of bonus banned you. Gambling is luck and no casino should bonus banned anyone if you up or not. Land base casinos do not bonus ban I was up 25000 one year at woodbine in Toronto I received tons of free buffet and brought my friends free hotel stays etc. I love receiving perks but online casinos I find boring when it comes to prizes etc and yes it takes forever to add up those loyalty points unless you are a vip and if you do get ahead many casinos punish you for doing so so thank god for 32red just hope no more negative changes don't come. Guts thrill and Casino luck are all great and I don't think they bonus ban for player if there luck puts them ahead of the game that's why we gamble.
 
i don't think they will change club rouge. with so many fast paying and reliable mg casinos (bet at, guts, ...) the biggest plus they still have are the really good offers (especially for cr). and their great support. if they get rid of those good bonuses, why shouldn't i play mg slot in a different place that pays within hours. but i think we'll be fine, if you look at the history this is pretty much one of the best, if not the best online casino out there, so i guess and hope they will still try to maintain their reputation. maybe the rep can give us an update :-)
 

I am in the same position in relation to maintaining silver status,in fact I am not even sure of the difference between silver and bronze unless it means you get better bonus offers..Although having wagered many thousands at 32Red I would never be in a position to make the necessary wagering over a month to earn enough points to make the jump to gold status.With the current points structure I believe it would require wagering of £100,000 on slots to achieve the requisite number of points.I did contact Jonathon a while ago to enquire about the possibility of being elevated to Club Rouge and he said he would pass my request on to the relevant people but never heard anything further.
 
guys

After 8 years in club rouge, I now just been booted down to gold tier! so watch out, here the changes comes. is a shame really as my status said club rouge for life!

Hi xxxxx,

I trust this email finds you well.

Your account number / username is: 32xxxxxxxxxx,

Accounts are reviewed on a regular basis to ensure that they still qualify for Club Rouge status. During the most recent review it has been deemed that, unfortunately, your account does not currently qualify for this.

With the above said, your account will be moved to the Gold Tier within 32Red's loyalty Scheme where you will continue to receive a host of excellent offerings. Full details of the loyalty scheme can be found here. I would like to confirm that, going forward, your account will continue to be monitored and should you qualify for Club Rouge, you will be invited to rejoin.

This change will take effect on 01/11/2014.

I would like to take this opportunity to wish you the best of luck in the Casino and should you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our award winning Player Support Team.


kind regards,

VIP and Customer Marketing Manager
32Red
Second to None
 
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32 Red - Research / Developments

I have been part of a research panel for 32 red for approx 6 months now (online surveys via The distilleries) Having completed various surveys including, TV advertising, Bonus schemes, Loyalty Programmes, games, Software etc etc etc, I'd say they are planning some changes in the coming months.

From the questions I've been asked to participate in / answer, Id 99% say that the loyalty programme and bonus scheme, Including 'out of the blue' prizes and NDB are going to be part of these changes.

Lets cross our fingers that they are all going to be for the benefit of our loyalty as players
 
I have been part of a research panel for 32 red for approx 6 months now (online surveys via The distilleries) Having completed various surveys including, TV advertising, Bonus schemes, Loyalty Programmes, games, Software etc etc etc, I'd say they are planning some changes in the coming months.

From the questions I've been asked to participate in / answer, Id 99% say that the loyalty programme and bonus scheme, Including 'out of the blue' prizes and NDB are going to be part of these changes.

Lets cross our fingers that they are all going to be for the benefit of our loyalty as players

Agree. Also I have had a lot of bonuses off 32 red in my lifetime club rouge status, I thank them very much for that, and will continue to be a loyal 32 red player with my new gold status.

The casino always very helpful, no cash out worries, no problems, and best of all customer services first class :thumbsup:
 
Unfortunately I am only a 'small fish' so have never had the experience of enjoying the higher loyalty levels, one day maybe when I hit that PJ eh!

I am currently 'bonus banned' which I hope will change and be reinstated soon (waiting on account review from Jonathan)

However despite these facts I very rarely 'shop' anywhere else as I strongly believe I get the better gameplay and RTP at 32red than I do anywhere else.

Think we can all look forward to seeing some great positive changes in the future, especially now a lot of UK competition has been 'removed'

Here's to positive thinking again!!
 
You have been bonus banned from there for a long time Jon. Never did find out what you did to be such a bad boy lol.

Been 18 months or so at a guess, unsure as to main reason(s) why I got banned, though i have had a few 'educated guesses'

Since the ban I've been advised to play without bonuses and that this would be recognised and hopefully aid the 'reinstatement' process, done loads of cash only plays but no luck yet with getting bonuses back :(

I can partially blame myself as the parents enjoy a flutter so I recommended 32red to them (there real panicky over this bank details online thing so went for most trusted etc) then allowed them or rather showed them the basics at my house (same IP etc) I was also guilty a good while back of only taking the 100% or 50% days so It's probably a combination of this factors.

I've reassured 32 that I've 'learnt my lesson' and will be a 'good boy' just have to hope for the best as I do enjoy the bonus for extended play time more than anything else, making play thru is very hit n miss plus other casinos just wind me up as I rarely seem to get a play elsewhere

here's hoping!
 
I was also guilty a good while back of only taking the 100% or 50%
I don't think it's true that 32Red bonus ban people for only taking the higher % bonuses. Not in my experience anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if the people that are saying they were bonus banned for only taking the higher bonuses are not telling the whole truth.
 
Nothing hidden and no reason to lol

To add tho, I did work in a land based UK casino for 5 years and worked my way up to lower management where I was involved in the 'ban' process.

There we had a 'signed for when joining' policy that the casino did not have to disclose any reasons for withdrawal of VIP benefits or total membership bans, which we very rarely had problems with, figure online casinos are well within their rights to adopt a similar policy :)
 
Nothing hidden and no reason to lol

To add tho, I did work in a land based UK casino for 5 years and worked my way up to lower management where I was involved in the 'ban' process.

There we had a 'signed for when joining' policy that the casino did not have to disclose any reasons for withdrawal of VIP benefits or total membership bans, which we very rarely had problems with, figure online casinos are well within their rights to adopt a similar policy :)

Companies are too afraid to discuss things like this with customers. The problem is, this can backfire spectacularly. A customer has to second guess why, and there are certain strict legal protections against companies using their "right to refuse service" for an ever increasing number of reasons, things like race, gender, disability, etc. The problem then is that if the customer they have banned belongs to one of these groups they can easily believe that it's why they got banned, and in the absence of any other logical explanation, and the clear "we have something to hide" attitude from the business, it can create both a PR backlash and legal action. The problem then is that legal action in such cases is something of an anomaly, the company has to prove they didn't discriminate because of a protected criterion such as race, gender, etc. rather than the usual "guilty until proven innocent".

There have been a couple of recent PR backlash disasters from our big supermarkets. Sainsbury's threw out a couple for kissing each other as they shopped together. It wasn't anything "heavy", just a regular kiss in public, one that might offend a few "prudes", but is perfectly acceptable in modern society. The catch was that the couple who got thrown out just happened to be lesbians, but Sainsbury's staff had hidden behind their "right to refuse service" by insisting they leave for "kissing". The PR backlash was that this was a ridiculous reason, you see couples kissing and holding hands when shopping all the time, it may not be widespread, but one thing you NEVER see is some pompous store manager marching over to them and chucking them out for it. The logical conclusion was that they were not thrown out for "kissing", but for a "lesbian kiss", which just happens to be one of those legally protected situations where the usual "right to refuse service" doesn't apply. The result was that a university load of students descended upon the store and held a protest "kiss in", whilst Sainsbury's HQ had to get firefighting, and FAST! They sacrificed the local store manager by saying this was certainly not company policy, and that the staff involved would be "retrained". Of course, their REAL worry was a lawsuit for discriminating on the grounds of sexual orientation, for which there is no legal upper limit on the award of damages, and in which they would have to convince a jury that it was more probable that they ejected the couple simply because of a kiss, rather than because it was a "gay kiss". This being a jury of 12 people who probably see couples kissing in public on a regular basis without being asked to leave anywhere.

With this in mind, we see some pretty odd policies in B&M businesses where people of colour, disabled, etc seem not to be held to the same standards of behaviour as the rest of us. This is because the company knows that it could have to come up with a definitive reason for ejecting such a person, rather than the more general "right to refuse service" which is often used when they have a "feel" about someone, or a "suspicion" based on some intelligence, that they feel presents a risk to them should they allow them to remain, but something that is too vague for them to be able to cite as a valid reason for refusing service to someone were they to be put on the spot.

Casinos will often eject or ban people who appear to be "suspicious", perhaps colluding as a pair or a group at a table in order to beat the house, or a team of card counters. They can't prove any of it, but they will ban such players either from certain games, or from the casino as a whole, but they would not want to be backed into a corner by having to explain why they banned the person in front of a judge.

It's far easier for online casinos to use their right to refuse service because there is less chance of such an action ending up anywhere near a judge, however online casinos DO use secret intelligence to seek out fraudsters and advantage players, and by using their right to refuse service from the outset, rather than having to react after the fact by voiding winnings, they lessen the chances of them being put on the spot and having to explain the reasons. A bonus ban is therefore far safer for the casino than having to void winnings when they have been taken to the cleaners by a group of APs. It's also fully supported under the CM standards, which say that a casino must honour winnings where terms were not broken, but if they feel the player is "too good" with the bonuses, they can then bonus ban them without having to worry about their accreditation status being at risk (in most cases).

Only taking 50% and 100% bonuses over a prolonged term is going to be something the casino doesn't like, and would be one factor in a decision to bonus ban a player. Reinstatement would in part depend on whether they feel that the player is genuinely altering their playing behaviour, or whether they are "working the system" with a view to again only taking the 100% and 50% bonuses once reinstatement has been achieved. The problem is of course that unless the player can be monitored when taking bonuses, there is no real way to judge whether or not there is going to be a change were they to be reinstated.

Now, as for the Club Rouge question, it DOES seem that it is being changed from a long term/lifetime club with few extra benefits to an active part of a new loyalty system, one where movement can be both ways, and on a regular basis, just like any other casino VIP program whether online or B&M. In a regular VIP program, players only stay in the top level if they continue to deliver the level of participation that got them there. If they play much less, or visit less often, the status can be reviewed and they can drop a tier or two.

Most MGS systems work on loyalty points earned, and have a target to reach to move up a tier, and an often smaller maintenance target to remain there. If activity reduces significantly enough, the maintenance level is not achieved and the player drops a tier.

I have seen several MGS casinos use a split between a regular tier system based on loyalty points, and a top tier based on something like an invite. GNUF had a top section which could be reached with 1,000,000 points, but the maintenance level was only 100,000 which was not much higher than the 75,000 needed to move up to the top Platinum tier in the lower section. It made the Black and Prive tiers almost impossible to reach through play alone, but pretty easy to maintain for a player that got bumped up there by invite. The difference between these and Club Rouge is that in the latter the maintenance criteria are also undefined, not just the invite criteria.
 
"right to refuse service"
I would say it's acceptable not to serve people on rational grounds such as; the customer is violent.
If it's not for a rational reason then it must be for an irrational one like; race hatred.

If people say they don't have a reason for their actions; that's also irrational.

...but something that is too vague for them to be able to cite as a valid reason
That means they have insufficient evidence and it's irrational to act upon insufficient evidence.

I can think of some valid reasons why a business would refuse a customer and not say why.
It can make the situation worse.


Only taking 50% and 100% bonuses over a prolonged term is going to be something the casino doesn't like, and would be one factor in a decision to bonus ban a player
If 32Red are practicing that, it’s probably harmful to their business.
It wouldn’t be much different to a supermarket advertising that they don’t like people who buy only specials; they would lose too much business.
 
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I don't think it's true that 32Red bonus ban people for only taking the higher % bonuses. Not in my experience anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if the people that are saying they were bonus banned for only taking the higher bonuses are not telling the whole truth.

I took every single bonus everyday since they offered them. even the deposit £200 receive £20 bonus. I don't have a problem losing my club rouge status. in fact its a challenge to me to strive to get it back!

not sure with the rules for these gold member promos though. is there a max bet? or is max bet just for the sign up? I know the playthrough don't allow 100% for all games like club rouge do.
 

There are many businesses that use their "right to refuse service for no specific reason", and places like betting shops, casinos, and arcades are the worst offenders. They clearly do NOT want to go on record for "banning winners", but this is EXACTLY what they are intentionally doing. I was banned from a street of arcades in Brighton many years ago, and they actually said WHY. They were also honest, a luxury they could afford because I was the only customer there. They said I was too good, and they were "fed up of people coming down to win on their machines", meaning people who knew how to play them as opposed to the shoppers and naïve holiday makers. However, it was my first visit, and judged and executed me on the basis of a single win from one machine that had a very obscure weakness that only the very best players could open up. I was told in effect to "eff off down the pier with the rest of your kind". Another time was Blackpool pleasure beach, a simple "Mr White wants you to leave now", also likely triggered by a run of "luck", but this time in full view of other customers. They didn't state why, and kept it low key.

Whilst it can make the situation worse where the reason causes the customer to rise up in anger and "create a scene", it can be that the customer would be justified in doing so if the unspoken reason was to do with their race, gender, or being openly "gay" where this did not suit the majority of the customers or the owner. It goes wrong when the customer IS a member of such a group, and has behaved in no manner that is different from others allowed to stay, but where the real reason is that the establishment feels the customer is not going to spend the amount of money they were hoping for, but is taking up a space that might be better employed by a less restrained customer. Restaurants will sometimes try to pressure slow eaters to hurry along so that they can get another lot in. This is seen by restaurants that generate feedback from customers who say they felt "rushed" by the staff, such as courses being taken before they had finished, or waiters constantly hovering around the table trying to take plates away when diners have merely paused too long. Next courses being served when diners have barely finished the current one also adds to the feeling of getting rushed.

Supermarkets don't like smart shoppers, and there was a recent PR setback when Sainsbury's accidentally displayed a poster meant for staff in a public area. It urged staff to "try and get an extra 50p out of every customer", which made it pretty clear that when staff kept hassling customers at the till with "do you want a......." and "before you go....", along with deliberate temptations put in front of small children making the lives of parents harder, that it wasn't down to carelessness, ignorance of children, or an overly pushy attitude that needed correcting by management, but all signs of this deliberate "get an extra 50p" push that came right from the very top.

The way they DO try to stop customers who "only buy the specials" is to impose item limits per customer. They don't want the first few customers to clear the shelves, they want the product to be shown as long as possible in order to get customers in the store. The level of stock is also restricted deliberately because they don't want to sell the amount at that price to meet the full demand. Often one sees stock run out, and the shelf sit empty for days, yet the day after the offer ends, there is all of a sudden a massive restock with the shelves bulging with these items at full price. In general, banning customers who are too good at getting the bargains would be a PR disaster because their marketing revolves around convincing customers that ALL their shopping is cheaper in their store than any other, so a customer who always gets the bargains is doing what they are supposed to do, and is showing the supermarket meeting it's promises.

With casinos, they like to market on the basis of "big winners", and how good your chances are. This makes it very tricky when it comes to banning players who win too often, as it can imply to others that one isn't supposed to win despite the marketing hype saying one IS supposed to get some good wins. It can also make it look like their games are rigged in some way, and that winning customers are banned because they are too skilled at playing the games.
 
I'm still in there, but the bonuses started to suck pretty bad. I haven'thad a 100% one for a long time... Most of the time 20$ for 200$ and stuff like that :( Someone else also experienced this? A couple of weeks ago i always had let's say at least once a week a 100 for 100 and once a 50 for 100 or something like that...
 
I'm still in there, but the bonuses started to suck pretty bad. I haven'thad a 100% one for a long time... Most of the time 20$ for 200$ and stuff like that :( Someone else also experienced this? A couple of weeks ago i always had let's say at least once a week a 100 for 100 and once a 50 for 100 or something like that...
Today I got a 100% bonus up to $100 and I'm only a regular member. Log on and check your account; it's probably the same for you.
 
Now it starts to get scary.

So what horrible changes have you done lately then my dear? :eek2:

haha it is a horror show Tirilej LOL No changes, no change in the way I play, probably played more in the last 12 months than any other 12 months. Can't say I am happy about it, but there is nothing I can do- the establishment have spoken haha So it is what it is.
 
haha it is a horror show Tirilej LOL No changes, no change in the way I play, probably played more in the last 12 months than any other 12 months. Can't say I am happy about it, but there is nothing I can do- the establishment have spoken haha So it is what it is.

Aha...you have always been that horrible. Now I get it.
They just couldn't stand you anymore :p
 
yeah have it too... maybe i missed one or two before :)

They used to do a lot on a Monday , Now seems a lot on a Friday I suppose marketing point of view , have a bit to play with over the weekend people may end spending more in reversed as no weekend withdraw in place lol :rolleyes:
 
I thought this was a quarterly review. This looks like they do a chucking out every month, and presumably promote other players every month.

According to the email it was a quarterly review, despite nobody ever hearing of any such review before everyone started to be demoted/booted.

It wouldn't be so bad if they just said in the email that they are restructuring the loyalty programme or something on them lines. Although it is what it is, I can't help feel that they could have been more honest behind the reason for it because the email just seems far fetched to me and not transparent in the reasoning behind it.

Pneforever also was demoted at the same time, so whether it is done by area/location, which seems to be the case. :) Either way it annoyed me, but will be interesting to see what changes if any are brought in for the future. - if any.
 


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