As a player what would be more useful to know than RTP/Volatility?

[2Slots]

RTP is pretty much an industry metric that tells us what margin the providers get over the long term. In all other sports or casino gambling afaik odds are used to tell players what return to expect if they win. Obviously slots are a bit more complicated with the range of outcomes.

I've also seen comments on here where someone says they did hundred of thousands or millions of spins on a slot and someone else replies that the RTP is calculated over a billion spins! Seems it's a bit of a "heads i win, tails you lose" metric for players.

Volatility seems like a slot studio specific metric. A low volatility slot from one studio could be rated medium, high or very high by another studio. It also feels like games are rated relative to a slot studios other games rather than a standard metric like RTP.

I feel that showing odds next to each winline on the paytable would be more useful. A lot of wins are the same value for different symbols so maybe a chart that showed the percentages/odds for each value including dead spins. Maybe something similar for bonus rounds.

It would be easier to identify slots where maybe loads of the wins will be less than x or there will be a lot of dead spins but more reasonable x wins. With the bonus rounds it would be good to know if there is decent spread of outcomes or if the bonus rounds return only nothing or jackpot.

I know volatility is supposed to indicate these things but it's hard to know what parts of the slots the volatility applies to without any other information.

I'm interested to know if anyone else has any ideas?

 

[geordiecolin]

It would be useful to know if my luck would be in by playing the slot

 

[Mr Shine]

Making it clear if it's "compensated" like those Games Global ones where you have to build your own jackpot. I always feel cheated when I blunder into one of those.

 

[dunover]

I've also seen comments on here where someone says they did hundred of thousands or millions of spins on a slot and someone else replies that the RTP is calculated over a billion spins! Seems it's a bit of a "heads i win, tails you lose" metric for players.

I'm interested to know if anyone else has any ideas?

Yes, but there is the question of permitted deviation from RTP over certain amounts of spins. This comes down to volatility but you shouldn't be too far from the mark over just a million plays.

 

[2Slots]

Making it clear if it's "compensated" like those Games Global ones where you have to build your own jackpot. I always feel cheated when I blunder into one of those.

All those types of "tilt" mechanics should be clearly stated.

I would read all the game info when I first started slots and couldn't believe that the "glowing pot can trigger a bonus" promoted on the intro screen would let you know somewhere in the game info that actually they don't indicate anything and are just for show!

 

[2Slots]

Yes, but there is the question of permitted deviation from RTP over certain amounts of spins. This comes down to volatility but you shouldn't be too far from the mark over just a million plays.

It's just funny to me that when one player says they did millions of spins on a slot RTP can still be debated because it's over a billion spins usually. I'm never going to find out either way!

With so many slots and new ones every day I wonder how many spins an average slot gets over its lifetime.

 

[Siohmy]

I don’t think it’d be too difficult to sort an industry standard volatility rating based on win frequency, bonus frequency, payouts, etc. However, the industry at large has no appetite to be remotely transparent, hence the BS pots mechanic prevalent all over the place. The more they can pretend something is happening when it is not the better for them. The turnover of slot releases means that it is better to get as much as possible up front before players cotton on to your BS mechanic as then the next release will come along. It’s grim all round.

 

[2Slots]

I don’t think it’d be too difficult to sort an industry standard volatility rating based on win frequency, bonus frequency, payouts, etc. However, the industry at large has no appetite to be remotely transparent, hence the BS pots mechanic prevalent all over the place. The more they can pretend something is happening when it is not the better for them. The turnover of slot releases means that it is better to get as much as possible up front before players cotton on to your BS mechanic as then the next release will come along. It’s grim all round.

Completely agree.

The UK regs seem to have fully exhausted the financial side so I wonder why they don't move on to these types of things.

I would think that standard information and removal of "tilt" mechanics might benefit problem gamblers more than anyone.

I only play for fun on min stakes so the worst that happened when I used to play a bad slot is lose a few quid, leave and laugh to myself how bad that slot was but problem gamblers must have a very different reaction.

 

[Siohmy]

Completely agree.

The UK regs seem to have fully exhausted the financial side so I wonder why they don't move on to these types of things.

I would think that standard information and removal of "tilt" mechanics might benefit problem gamblers more than anyone.

I only play for fun on min stakes so the worst that happened when I used to play a bad slot is lose a few quid, leave and laugh to myself how bad that slot was but problem gamblers must have a very different reaction.

That is a very healthy approach. It should be viewed as fun, time passing thing to do. I get more frustrated with the crap design/engineering than I do at any money I may lose.

 

[M!ke]

I'd like to know some odds for the slots I play, but like it was said in this thread, they don't wanna be too transparent, so I don't expect that.. ever.

 

[2Slots]

I'd like to know some odds for the slots I play, but like it was said in this thread, they don't wanna be too transparent, so I don't expect that.. ever.

This is true. I'm surprised the companies aren't even required to provide basic info in the slot like the base/bonus game percentage and bonus round frequency.

I've seen them provided by users on here for some popular slots.

 

[M!ke]

This is true. I'm surprised the companies aren't even required to provide basic info in the slot like the base/bonus game percentage and bonus round frequency.

I've seen then provided by users on here for some popular slots.

Bonus trigger frequency would be nice.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I think it should be mandatory for the following to be displayed on the load up screen.

Min game RTP or (TRTP) PS generally they are not actually the same, won’t get into that here.
AVE spins for feature and AVE spins for a super feature if one is available.
AVE spins for max win or AVE spins for a win of over 1000x
And an industry standardised volatility score of say 1-10
Games should also make it clear if stakes change the odds of certain events happening, currently they don’t have to, some games in vegas have now started doing this, about time!
And personally I would BAN all persistence type games for the UK

While some providers do some of this, it’s about time the regulators grew some balls and actually made some real changes to help players make informed choices on the games they want to get involved with.

 

[Nate]

Games should also make it clear if stakes change the odds of certain events happening, currently they don’t have to, some games in vegas have now started doing this, about time!

Could you clarify what you mean here?

 

[2Slots]

Min game RTP or (TRTP) PS generally they are not actually the same, won’t get into that here.

I agree with all your points.

Could you give a brief explanation of (TRTP) PS? I know what TRTP stands for but googling it brings up RTP pages.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Could you clarify what you mean here?

Sure, not all stakes have to play the same, as long as the RTP is same, each stake can have different odds of certain wins happening etc.

Eg higher stakes often have higher RTP in base wins compared to bonus features but overall RTP is same etc.

As for the vegas slot I was referring to I did have a pic, not sure I still have it but will look for it, hope that clears it up.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I agree with all your points.

Could you give a brief explanation of (TRTP) PS? I know what TRTP stands for but googling it brings up RTP pages.

Well it’s a bit murky now but RTP used to be a mathematically provable thing.

Like if I charged £1 to throw a die, and if you get a six I give you £5.70 and if you get anything else you lose that game is an RTP of 95%

Where TRTP is generally simulated theoretical calculation based on a set amount of game rounds often in the billions, using certain RNGs etc

If I do a game and simulate 10 billion games for 10 different runs and it comes out no less than 95% I can say this game has a TRTP of 95%

In realistic terms the bottom line is they are still RTPs but not technically the same.

 

[satchnz]

I wish that the info below was a bit more widely available. It doesn’t cover everything we’d like to know but it’s a start. (I played this slot on early release this weekend just been and it is brutal).

 

[2Slots]

Well it’s a bit murky now but RTP used to be a mathematically provable thing.

Like if I charged £1 to throw a die, and if you get a six I give you £5.70 and if you get anything else you lose that game is an RTP of 95%

Where TRTP is generally simulated theoretical calculation based on a set amount of game rounds often in the billions, using certain RNGs etc

If I do a game and simulate 10 billion games for 10 different runs and it comes out no less than 95% I can say this game has a TRTP of 95%

In realistic terms the bottom line is they are still RTPs but not technically the same.

This is an excellent explanation, thanks.

Something that annoyed me early on was that googling RTP brings up loads of sites that explain it as e.g. 96% RTP means the slot will theoretically return 96 for every 100.

It's true but I never understood why they use such a low number when its theoretically 96% of the total taken by the slot over its lifetime or many millions of spins.

No wonder there are so many posts on the internet about rigged slots. A lot of people must assume that the 100 played is their deposit amounts.

 

[2Slots]

I wish that the info below was a bit more widely available. It doesn’t cover everything we’d like to know but it’s a start. (I played this slot on early release this weekend just been and it is brutal).

Something like this should be on all slots, maybe on a standard screen before the slot intro screen.

 

[2Slots]

I'm posting here to not derail other threads. I started this thread out of interest but with all the RTP drops happening in the uk I think it's actually important now. There's could be a big difference where the RTP is reduced from in a slot.

If it's from a lot of base game wins and smaller bonus hits then it would completely change the experience compared to if the max win was left in but some of the bonus wins lower than that were removed. I mean the odds of those wins are so low anyway would we even notice.

I'm assuming lower RTP versions butcher the parts of the slots that actually make up the overall experience because removing it from the top end probably wouldn't affect much as the wins are so rare?

It would be reasonable to know where the differences are in the same slot.