Betfair Bonus Fiasco

[Jufo]

Hitler plays Betfair Casino happy hour

Background: On last Saturday (13/11/2010) Betfair Casino offered unlimited happy hour bonus with only 10x playthrough. Once they realized how much they lost in this promo they started locking account and confiscating funds.

 

[est129]

LOL! Hillarious.

''Everyone who can still log in to their betfair accounts, get out of the room now'' hahahaha

 

[Jufo]

[POST DELETED]

 

[est129]

I forgot to add, that video is based on real events from last Saturday when Betfair offered unlimited reload bonus with 10X playthrough and started closing accounts and confiscating funds when they realized what had happened.

Did they have any explanation or announcement about this? It's ridicullus to ban members who took advantages on their bonus offer.

 

[Jufo]

Did they have any explanation or announcement about this? It's ridicullus to ban members who took advantages on their bonus offer.

I think they are still investigating. Some members have had their accounts re-opened and have been able to it withdraw. Betfair probably did a mistake with their bonus offer, making it unlimited and now they are trying to get the money back.

 

[Perc]

LMAO! That was awesome!

 

[KasinoKing]

Hitler plays Betfair Casino happy hour

Background: On last Saturday (13/11/2010) Betfair Casino offered unlimited happy hour bonus with only 10x playthrough. Once they realized how much they lost in this promo they started locking account and confiscating funds.

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That video is the most fucking hilarious thing I've seen in YEARS!!! :notworthy
(In fact, I think I wet myself...)
Did you make it yourself?

Sounds like a pretty serious cock-up at Betfair though - I hope someone can keep us informed how it turns out.

KK

 

[Tengil]

Someone at Betfair will probably lose his job. Wonder how much damage was caused?
Betfair will eventually have to pay everyone.

 

[Jufo]

That video is the most fucking hilarious thing I've seen in YEARS!!! :notworthy
(In fact, I think I wet myself...)
Did you make it yourself?

No I didn't make it. Someone posted it at Beating bonuses.

Someone at Betfair will probably lose his job. Wonder how much damage was caused?
Betfair will eventually have to pay everyone.

Someone reported that Betfair lost 8 figures on this promo. That's a huge sum of money even for a large-scale operation like Betfair.

 

[Jufo]

Recent message from Betfair (not to me):

"Certain customers attempted to profit from the promotion through adopting gaming patterns and activity in contravention of Betfair Casino’s Standard Terms and Conditions. As a result, we have withheld both bonus funds and winnings derived from such activity on those customers’ accounts, of which yours is one."

Casinomeister can be expecting a load of PABs on this one.

 

[Tengil]

Recent message from Betfair (not to me):

"Certain customers attempted to profit from the promotion through adopting gaming patterns and activity in contravention of Betfair Casino’s Standard Terms and Conditions. As a result, we have withheld both bonus funds and winnings derived from such activity on those customers’ accounts, of which yours is one."

Casinomeister can be expecting a load of PABs on this one.

Going to be a hell of a mess clearing up. If they get away with it then online gambling will lose all its credibility, the little it has left. They are after all one of the high profile operators.

Their FU clause, term nr 22:

If Betfair becomes aware of a customer who, in the course of participating in a promotion or offer, has become able to guarantee wins and/or profits with no or only minimal risk, and/or benefits from a promotion or offer by participating through more than one Betfair account, and/or displays irregular or unusual playing or betting patterns which Betfair deems to be abusive, Betfair may in its absolute discretion elect to do any one or more of the following: (i) close the customer’s account(s); (ii) invalidate the transactions or game play which was in contravention of this term; and/or (iii) withhold the customer’s winnings from such transactions or game play.

 

[Tagdog]

Do betfair have a rep here - I'ld love their side of the story

 

[hitobito2005]

I've been affected badly by this and don't intend to sit back and take it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, if players did nothing more than take the offer as advertised, with no breaches of the terms, Betfair are in serious trouble. They will have to JUSTIFY the grounds on which winnings were confiscated, else lose the trust of many players.

After all, it was THEIR mistake, and if they were "on the ball", someone would have noticed things were going seriously wrong, and they would have pulled the promotion early. Sure, it would have generated complaints, but NO player would actually have been "screwed" by having winnings confiscated under the vague "F.U. Clause".

 

[Jufo]

Well, if players did nothing more than take the offer as advertised, with no breaches of the terms, Betfair are in serious trouble. They will have to JUSTIFY the grounds on which winnings were confiscated, else lose the trust of many players.

After all, it was THEIR mistake, and if they were "on the ball", someone would have noticed things were going seriously wrong, and they would have pulled the promotion early. Sure, it would have generated complaints, but NO player would actually have been "screwed" by having winnings confiscated under the vague "F.U. Clause".

Reading posts made by players, they started taking back already credited bonuses as soon as after 3 hours the promotion started. But aside from taking back bonuses they started nullifying winnings derived from play as well, and in some cases even deposits. The have also taken back already successful withdrawals from Moneybookers by contacting Moneybookers, who has locked players accounts and returned the money to them.

I predict that this will turn out to be the the largest and most severe confiscation issue of this year and maybe even past several years.

 

[rpalmer83]

I too was affected by this, I deposited into my account and claimed some of these happy hour bonuses. By 1AM they were removed from the account in full. The terms and conditions said there was supposed to be a 12 hour expiry period on these bonuses so my intention was to play them through early the next morning. Which would have been permissable by the terms. The next day my account was locked, it is now unlocked and my deposit has been returned.

They have not emailed me once to confirm any of these actions, they just went and did it!.

It is rather disgusting to offer a promotion, encourage deposits then behave with this attitude.

As soon as they realised they had made a mistake the sensible thing to do would have been to stop any further players claiming the bonuses in the casino and honour the ones that had been claimed, thentake a long hard look at their promotion structure to ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

I am not happy with Betfair at all. It just goes to show they can't be trusted. Like most online gaming operators these days. They have advertised an offer that they didn't honour.

Why should I believe the next time Betfair has a promotion on the same won't happen again?. It's false advertising, mis-marketing and deceptive at the highest level!.

 

[zendenpen]

I too was heavily affected by this. Betfair refusing to pay any of the bonuses I cleared nor the winnings. This is the email they sent me:

We recently ran a Casino promotion called Casino Happy Hour in which you participated. The promotion was live during the weekend of 13 and 14 November 2010.

During and after the promotion, we suspended certain customers’ Casino accounts after it was alerted to some irregular and unusual gaming and depositing activity. Your account was one of those suspended.

Certain customers attempted to profit from the promotion through adopting gaming patterns and activity in contravention of Betfair Casino’s Standard Terms and Conditions. As a result, we have withheld both bonus funds and winnings derived from such activity on those customers’ accounts, of which yours is one.

We have taken steps to make sure all of your actual deposits have remained in your account, and your account will be reopened within 48 hours. You are of course then free to continue to use your deposited funds to play in the casino, or to withdraw them at any time.

We appreciate this has been an inconvenience to you, but are happy to have the situation resolved and to make your deposited funds available to you again.

 

[jstrike]

Crazy. I wonder if the era of huge bonuses has seen its day. While it's obviously necessary for casinos to promote themselves somehow, it doesn't seem like the bonuses are getting them players who are there to play. What I mean is, a bonus like this might have ended up being a long-term net positive for the house a few years ago, but now there are enough professional bonus-cleaners out there to make it not worthwhile. All it would take would be for the "some players" they're referring to to be more than 25% or so, for them to start losing, and I'd bet that number's more like 75% now because of the information that's out there.

So what BetFair did here was disgusting, and it's even worse because they didn't do their homework. They obviously have an obligation to honor their agreements come hell or high water. But I bet they won't be offering anything like this again soon. And I think other casinos will probably think twice as well. I think this may be the start of a tectonic shift. But maybe fewer bonuses ain't such a bad thing. When I hear some of the offers out there, I just know the casinos offering them are going to scalp their players somehow. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to get back to basics... you know, a 10% bonus or a round of drinks on the house.

 

[FrankT]

Question is, did only winners get their funds confiscated and deposits returned?

Even at 10xB (50xB on BJ I understand) there would have been those who, through variance, would have lost on the promotion.

So have Betfair refused to pay the winners while keeping all the funds from the losers?

If so that is shameful

 

[spoonboy]

BETFAIR = ROGUE

Betfair have shown themselves up here to be a very amateurish, disorganised, naive and immoral outfit and are acting like a really small-time casino. They offered everyone unlimited bonuses and then when people (myself included) had the audacity to claim a lot of bonuses they start stealing the bonuses back out of peoples' accounts WITHOUT EVEN INFORMING US! They've still not even admitted this or given a reason for it.
Now after locking peoples' accounts for 3 days without any updates they are refusing to pay out any winnings. I have done nothing wrong, nothing agains their Terms & Conditions. They say I am guilty of "adopting gaming patterns and activity in contravention of Betfair Casino’s Standard Terms and Conditions." I have done no such thing! All I did was deposit, claim their bonuses and then play through the wagering requirements on allowed games. How can I get justice?
I think this thread should be moved to the main section. This is no joking matter.
Do any reps from Betfair come on here? I'd love to hear what they have to say. Betfair's name is going to be mud after this.
BETFAIR = ROGUE.

 

[spoonboy]

So have Betfair refused to pay the winners while keeping all the funds from the losers?

From what I've read elsewhere, yes. Shameful indeed. Sort of thing you'd expect from a small semi-rogue outfit, not from one of the biggest there is. A dark day for online gaming this if even the biggest places can no longer be trusted. It sounds like they got hit hard by people taking them up on their promo and they then realised that their offer was too generous so decided to turn rogue.

 

[spoonboy]

It seems moronic of Betfair to sacrifice their reputation in order to save a few quid.

Edit: Sorry for the ranting but I am fuming about this.

 

[jstrike]

I think it's shameful either way. But if what you're saying is true...and from the sound of that email they sent out, it might be...then it's purely criminal. I don't see how any amount of money can be worth so thoroughly destroying your company's reputation, but then people are shortsighted.

The only way to make this right would be to return the winnings to every single player. Having said that, if they are intent on rolling back the bonuses, they should certainly be expected to refund any losses incurred by other players over the weekend as well, on any deposits that were made while the house was falsely representing the bonus the player would receive.

After reading this, and I've been kicking around this question for awhile, I've decided I'm never giving more than a 25% bonus on anything when I start up. Better to just do guaranteed pots, player points buyins and rakebacks, and give decent odds, let players come for the games and not just to scrape. Giant bonuses are looking more and more like a lose/lose proposition for casinos all the time. Although I've never heard of a ****up quite as idiotic as this one was.

 

[Jufo]

I think this thread should be moved to the main section. This is no joking matter.

I agree that because of the gravity of this matter this thread should be moved to the main section. I was really surprised that I was the first one to post about this issue here. It was also not my intention to make fun of anyone who got money stuck in there. The video was just too much spot-on description of the events to not be posted.

 

[FiletOFish]

It looks as though the person responsible has already been fired.

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.

Note in point 6, that you must have integrity.

LOL!

 

[daywalker]

It looks as though the person responsible has already been fired.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Note in point 6, that you must have integrity.

LOL!

It doesn't to me.

Surely the person responsible would be the casino promotions manager and not someone in marketing who deals with high value customers? Bear in mind this offer was for all Betfair users and not just high value ones.

There is a position for sports promotion executive who reports to the sports promo manager so I expect the same positions are held by people in the casino department.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.

 

[threescatters]

Betfair Hitler Video

Don't know if its been posted over here yet but if any of you played betfair casino this weekend you might find this funny.....Casinomeister gets a mention!

 

[dougbet1]

Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.

Just to answer the bolded, I once had my Moneybookers account closed and funds confiscated because St Minver (who operate bingo sites) made a direct complaint.

I complained to St Minver who admitted a mistake and re-opened my account immediatly.

It took Moneybookers over 5 weeks/daily e-mails from me and multiple e-mails from St Minver to re-open my account.
They never did answer the section of my complaint that asked why they, without question, accepted everything the merchant had said but never listened to me. Even though I pressed them on it specifically multiple times.

Of course I understand that the merchant will generate more profit than me over any period and that's why I got such shoddy treatment, but I am a paying customer and deserve a good level of service.

Moneybookers are to quick to forget that they have a responsibility to protect all users of their service.

 

[Pinababy69]

There is an ongoing thread here:

Link Outdated / Removed

Which should definitely be moved to this forum, or the Bonus Issues Complaints forum.

 

[KasinoKing]

Which should definitely be moved to this forum, or the Bonus Issues Complaints forum.

I sent a massage to the Mods earlier asking them to do just that.

That video is bloody hilarious though, I have to admit! :notworthy

KK

 

[Gabriel_LCP]

lol fuuuunnyyyyy

 

[jstrike]

I was under the impression moneybookers was quasi-illegitimate from day one...no? People use them and manage to get their withdrawals? I was looking at them as a payment option and I took them off my list. Quick search of "moneybookers scam" turns up a pretty shady history, and more than their share of horror stories. Some of the stories are probably fake and planted by their competition...and every service has disgruntled users...but having read what I have, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if they'd aided a casino in going rogue. No reputable service would reverse dozens or hundreds of transactions without investigating for at least a few days, if not weeks, short of trying to correct some kind of major software error. Human error is definitely grounds for a more thorough investigation.

 

[jod5413]

Well, Betfair DOING CHARGEBACKS

When PLAYERS don't like the outcome of the games, and decide to chageback their losses, they are EVIL. Well, the SAME standards should apply to BOTH parties. Once a casino has paid, TOUGH, too late - should have been more alert.

Is Betfair on the "no can do" list here?

If not, affected players should PAB straight away, so Max can get to the bottom of this.

Unless players DID break SPECIFIC rules, it is NOT good enough to confiscate winnings just because a promotions manager didn't do his maths properly.

The ease with which Moneybookers handed back the money ALSO requires investigation. Was evidence of "just cause" shown to them, or did they just go ahead and do it. A complaint to the UK FSA might be worth a try, particularly from any UK players. A demand under the data protection act for all information held on an affected Moneybookers player is also worth a go. For £10, you might see evidence of what convinced them to give the money back, and this might show they acted illegally.

IF I chargeback on a credit card, it doesn't "just happen", I have to put forward a case, and the merchant gets the chance to give their side, and make amends if warranted BEFORE a chargeback can proceed.

If they had paid back to a credit card, or a bank account, Betfair would NOT have found it so easy to grab the money back.

If you want "justice", try the PAB route, and/or a formal complaint to the regulator where they are licensed.

This is not the FIRST time this has happened in the industry, and the casinos involved had to back off somewhat, and only "got away" with not paying when clear violations of the promotional and general terms were comitted.

Prime Casino once made the error of doing a "chargeback" from Neteller on a player who was paid two weeks earlier. This did NOT go down well here, and Prime had to give the money back to save themselves from a PR disaster. The view was, they have already paid, so TOUGH - take the hit and learn from the mistake.

Betfair could find they lose any trust players have in future promotions, and many sound ones will be unsuccessful simply because they look "too good to be true", and players will stay away thinking they have "done it again" and risk another round of confiscations of bonuses and winnings.

An absolutely great post, VWM!

 

[threescatters]

this is such big news in the gambling world it really should be in the main online casinos forum

 

[threescatters]

merged thread same post

 

[Pinababy69]

I sent a massage to the Mods earlier asking them to do just that.

That video is bloody hilarious though, I have to admit! :notworthy

KK

Well KK, while you were massaging "them" (like yuck)....I was messaging them, lol.

 

[jetset]

This really looks like a shocker, and it will be interesting to see Betfair's side of the story.

If they are smart they will already be in damage control mode and may respond quickly - it's not too late to retrieve something from this.

Promotional blunders that are retrieved by hammering the players for the casino's error are not new in the industry (remember the classic multi-millions payout that 888.com made when it screwed up big time on a promotion many years ago?) but this one looks like a doozie.

Betfair have only recently successfully completed an IPO, which makes their conduct (assuming these reports are true) all the more reprehensible.

Perhaps they need to take a historic look at how Vahe and John Anderson (then bossmen at 888.com) handled the issue way back then.

 

[maxd]

....Casinomeister gets a mention!

 

[Pinababy69]

I was under the impression moneybookers was quasi-illegitimate from day one...no? People use them and manage to get their withdrawals? I was looking at them as a payment option and I took them off my list. Quick search of "moneybookers scam" turns up a pretty shady history, and more than their share of horror stories. Some of the stories are probably fake and planted by their competition...and every service has disgruntled users...but having read what I have, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if they'd aided a casino in going rogue. No reputable service would reverse dozens or hundreds of transactions without investigating for at least a few days, if not weeks, short of trying to correct some kind of major software error. Human error is definitely grounds for a more thorough investigation.

Certainly NOT defending their actions at all (MB I mean), but they are not the only ewallet that has a history of yanking back player's funds from their account, AFTER a withdrawal has been processed. As VWM mentioned in his post, it happened with Prime Play shortly after they first opened..and later, it also happened with Mansion Casino. So this is not something new.

Threads for reference:

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/prime-casino-remove-my-money-from-neteller.17927/

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/mansion-rob-my-neteller-to-take-bonus-back.18961/

I have used Moneybookers for years with no problems, as many have used Neteller with no issues. Just highlighting the fact that this practice is a bit more common than some may think.

I find it absolutely mind boggling, that any merchant could have Neteller or MB go into a player's ewallet account, and confiscate already paid funds. It IS the equivalent of a chargeback on the part of the casino...and every bit as fraudulent, IMO, as a player who does the same thing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Jetset is spot on. If Betfair wants to salvage any scrap of their reputation, they need to do some immediate damage control. That includes paying all affected players ALL monies due, and making a public statement. Mistakes can be forgiven...a casino who deliberately cheats the players cannot.

 

[threescatters]

I think this is the betfair forum rep?

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/members/

maybe they could come explain there side of the story

 

[Nate]

I find it absolutely mind boggling, that any merchant could have Neteller or MB go into a player's ewallet account, and confiscate already paid funds. It IS the equivalent of a chargeback on the part of the casino...and every bit as fraudulent, IMO, as a player who does the same thing.

Bryan / Max

1. Could this be added as one of the stages to pass when considering accreditation?

2. If chargebacks constitutes an 'Evil Player'... will this be the same for the Casino AND Processor?

3. Could we possibly contact processors and confirm if they WILL do a chargeback at the request of a Casino? If so, can we place warnings for potential customers of that Ewallet?

4. We seriously need to decipher the issue of 'Irregular Playing Patterns'. This is something that is NOT acceptable and more Casinos are getting away with it. I cannot fathom why this has never been addressed (I stand to be corrected - if it has please point me to the thread)...

5. I understand that this issue is in the early stages and no other info was released, but it makes you feel sick ... Players have NO protection.. Not from the EWallet or from the supposed 'FAIR' Casinos.

Nate

 

[maxd]

Bryan / Max ....

To paraphrase the Asian guy in the cold suit in Blade Runner: "I do PABs, just PABs".

You're talking Accreditation policy and that's 100% Bryan's domain. He'll be back on or about the 29th so you may need to wait a bit to get his input on this.

 

[Landprofits]

Do betfair have a rep here - I'ld love their side of the story

Don't think so - I don't think they communicate with any third parties (forums, SBR, Casinomeister etc).

 

[thelawnet]

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[spoonboy]

^ thanks for screenshots!

 

[Jufo]

So, next Saturday we can do this bonus again?

 

[hitobito2005]

Don't think so - I don't think they communicate with any third parties (forums, SBR, Casinomeister etc).

Apparantly they do communicate with third parties now (well CM at least) as of October this year, which is when Bryan put them back in the accredited section.

 

[Seventh777]

I just could not believe that an a E-wallet with such status as Moneybookers would return monies to a casino, without even consulting the person whom has the account, I just closed my MB account.

 

[Jufo]

I just could not believe that an a E-wallet with such status as Moneybookers would return monies to a casino, without even consulting the person whom has the account, I just closed my MB account.

To be fair, only one person mentioned this having happened. Landprofits, you wrote that it happened to your friend and was there maybe something else involved with this? It looks like most of the players who managed to withdraw from Betfair to Moneybookers were able to keep their monies, though many of them probably emptied their Moneybookers accounts just in case Betfair tried to get it back.