Cassava Still Stealing?

[Rossco43]

Hi everyone.

My name is Ross, I live in a small town in the west of Scotland called Oban.

I'm new here and wanted to share my bad bingo experience with you all, and also find out if anyone else has/had experienced the same issues with the well known bingo site regulators named Cassava Enterprise.

Back in 2012 I won in excess of 22 thousand pounds playing on my favorite bingo site named Costa Bingo. In between waiting for the next bingo game to be called, I decided to have a go on one of their 'side games' namely roulette. To cut a long story short, I hit a winning run and eventually amassed winnings of approx £23,000.00! So my problems began........

Having just won the single biggest amount of my gambling life, I proceeded to withdraw them. The withdrawal procedure on Costa Bingo's site only allow daily withdrawal amounts of up to £1,000. I didn't want to have to spend the best part of a month withdrawing £1,000 per day, so I contacted their customer service department to ask if I could withdraw my winnings all in the one go. The pleasant lady I spoke to said that was no problem and that my withdrawal limit had been lifted and finished the conversation by congratulating me on my big win. She even emailed me to confirm this.

"Great" I thought and proceeded to get my winnings outta there only to find I could not. So I called again and was informed that their 'security' department were looking into my account as it was quite a vast amount of money and so they will contact me via email should they need any more information. Fine I thought as I hadn't yet sent proof of my age I thought it was probably that they wanted to check. Two days had passed and I hadn't heard a thing from them, so I called again. This time I was told that the security department had found an issue with my account and so had temporarily 'frozen' me out. When I asked why, the women replied "it's just a routine security check" and once more advised me that they would get back to me via email as soon as they can.

So I try to log into my Costa account only to find I cannot. I phone once again. This time I am told that all correspondence will be done by email from now on from Costa's 'security' department otherwise known as Cassava Enterprise LTD. For those who are unaware of who this company is or what they do, check them out here

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For the next two days I hadn't heard anything, so I emailed Costa and got a reply from a representative from Cassava telling me that I had breached Costa's T's & C's (usual story) when I opened the account. Anyway I'll keep the rest of this brief. Basically email went back & forth between us, each time Cassava coming up with some new lame excuse. I even put an official complaint into the Gibraltar Gambling Commission (where both Costa and Cassava are based) with absolutely no success. Long and short of it is Costa Bingo and Cassava Enterprise stole my winnings unjustly and with no prior notice.

I would love to hear if other people have had dealings with this rogue company. I noticed one other post regarding Cassava on this site, but not too much was disclosed about them. I have lots of other things to say about this matter and am only now feeling able to post this since the incident back in 2012 due to personal setbacks.

As I said, I would love to hear from folk who have had similar dealing with these people.

Ross.

See Related Threads:

• Cassava Enterprise
• Cassava Email
• SCAM WARNING!!
• Cassava Have Stolen From Me
• Cassava Enterprises Took £3000

 

[sigothx1]

Hi everyone.

My name is Ross, I live in a small town in the west of Scotland called Oban.

I'm new here and wanted to share my bad bingo experience with you all, and also find out if anyone else has/had experienced the same issues with the well known bingo site regulators named Cassava Enterprise.

Back in 2012 I won in excess of 22 thousand pounds playing on my favorite bingo site named Costa Bingo. In between waiting for the next bingo game to be called, I decided to have a go on one of their 'side games' namely roulette. To cut a long story short, I hit a winning run and eventually amassed winnings of approx £23,000.00! So my problems began........

Having just won the single biggest amount of my gambling life, I proceeded to withdraw them. The withdrawal procedure on Costa Bingo's site only allow daily withdrawal amounts of up to £1,000. I didn't want to have to spend the best part of a month withdrawing £1,000 per day, so I contacted their customer service department to ask if I could withdraw my winnings all in the one go. The pleasant lady I spoke to said that was no problem and that my withdrawal limit had been lifted and finished the conversation by congratulating me on my big win. She even emailed me to confirm this.

"Great" I thought and proceeded to get my winnings outta there only to find I could not. So I called again and was informed that their 'security' department were looking into my account as it was quite a vast amount of money and so they will contact me via email should they need any more information. Fine I thought as I hadn't yet sent proof of my age I thought it was probably that they wanted to check. Two days had passed and I hadn't heard a thing from them, so I called again. This time I was told that the security department had found an issue with my account and so had temporarily 'frozen' me out. When I asked why, the women replied "it's just a routine security check" and once more advised me that they would get back to me via email as soon as they can.

So I try to log into my Costa account only to find I cannot. I phone once again. This time I am told that all correspondence will be done by email from now on from Costa's 'security' department otherwise known as Cassava Enterprise LTD. For those who are unaware of who this company is or what they do, check them out here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

For the next two days I hadn't heard anything, so I emailed Costa and got a reply from a representative from Cassava telling me that I had breached Costa's T's & C's (usual story) when I opened the account. Anyway I'll keep the rest of this brief. Basically email went back & forth between us, each time Cassava coming up with some new lame excuse. I even put an official complaint into the Gibraltar Gambling Commission (where both Costa and Cassava are based) with absolutely no success. Long and short of it is Costa Bingo and Cassava Enterprise stole my winnings unjustly and with no prior notice.

I would love to hear if other people have had dealings with this rogue company. I noticed one other post regarding Cassava on this site, but not too much was disclosed about them. I have lots of other things to say about this matter and am only now feeling able to post this since the incident back in 2012 due to personal setbacks.

As I said, I would love to hear from folk who have had similar dealing with these people.

Ross.

This is the bit that needs elaborating, what terms did they say you breached exactly?

• In the event that the Company has reasonable suspicion that you have been taking unfair advantage of the Company's welcome bonuses or have executed any other act in bad faith in relation to a bonus promotion offered on any of the websites owned and/or operated by the Company, then the Company shall have the right to block or terminate your accounts with the Company and in such circumstances, the Company shall be under no obligation to refund to you any funds that may be in your account/s or pay any cashouts.

this term from there site is whats known as "spirit of the bonus" clause, which means if the site think your trying to actually win money they have the right to void all your winnings and close your account, very very rogue.

This was 3 years ago so you might not be able to answer these questions, but ill ask anyway. Firstly did you play roulette with -any- bonus funds, such as a deposit match, welcome bonus, loyalty bonus ect?

What were you betting on the roulette table, even money bets ( red/black/odd/evan ect ) or straight up numbers, if numbers how many?

Was this your first account with them? did anyone else such as a partner have an account with them?

How did you deposit, what method? did you ever use someone elses card ect?

 

[randomiam]

a little info

From what i have read here so far the will not discuss player complaints with anyone. kind of a rouge outfit i guess.if you use the search box in the upper right corner of the site a little bit below the log out thing enter the name and do a search you will see a few threads about them come up read thru them and see how you go.

 

[Jono777]

I have been bitten by the 'Evil Cassava Vampires' in the past too

No where near the amount you describe, roughly £500 as best I can remember (was during 2011 ish)

Had accounts with Foxy, Costa, Sing, Hollywood and Cheeky.

Made regular but small deposits (£10/£20) and played both slots and bingo and also the free bingo which back then ran pretty much 24/7.

Had been advised of this 'little earner' by a friend and told read the T&C thoroughly before playing, which I did, there was no mention of a limit on the free bingo (which is where I made the majority of my profits)

Having had several withdrawals paid up to this point and being '4 figures' in profit easily across the sites all of a sudden I go to log in and discover all accounts are 'locked' and a nice Cassava security team' email sitting in my inbox.

Basically this was full of BS and invented stuff, mainly that I had breached a term regarding the free bingo, which was now limited to 'X' amount of games per week.

They had 'missed' my Bingo Street account whilst blocking me so I logged in to see that they had changed T&C but no emails, pop ups etc etc to inform players to accept new T&C.

During numerous e-mails back n forth trying to argue my point I also attached a copy of the T&C (which I had copied n pasted) - the ones I AGREED to when signing up, despite this they still would not budge and have not done so ever since.

The only 'peace' I found was the fact, as mentioned that I was 'well up' on them, this, despite the emails full of crap from their end is the ONLY reason they blocked me.

The bottom line is Cassava are money grabbers (so many different bingo skins backs this up) and DO NOT LIKE WINNERS!

Like a leopard they will never 'change their spots' - CM cannot help either as players are pre warned 'proceed with extreme caution'

 

[Jono777]

Latest Update

Just a 'heads up' to add. Cassava are also running casinos these days and have acquired Netent games too, this is their latest offering, came thru post today, good job I read the 'small print'



Will be avoiding ........

 

[Rossco43]

This is the bit that needs elaborating, what terms did they say you breached exactly?

• In the event that the Company has reasonable suspicion that you have been taking unfair advantage of the Company's welcome bonuses or have executed any other act in bad faith in relation to a bonus promotion offered on any of the websites owned and/or operated by the Company, then the Company shall have the right to block or terminate your accounts with the Company and in such circumstances, the Company shall be under no obligation to refund to you any funds that may be in your account/s or pay any cashouts.

this term from there site is whats known as "spirit of the bonus" clause, which means if the site think your trying to actually win money they have the right to void all your winnings and close your account, very very rogue.

This was 3 years ago so you might not be able to answer these questions, but ill ask anyway. Firstly did you play roulette with -any- bonus funds, such as a deposit match, welcome bonus, loyalty bonus ect?

What were you betting on the roulette table, even money bets ( red/black/odd/evan ect ) or straight up numbers, if numbers how many?

Was this your first account with them? did anyone else such as a partner have an account with them?

How did you deposit, what method? did you ever use someone elses card ect?

Hi sigothx1.

Thanks for your reply. Firstly, in relation to what terms I broke.....

I am aware of the 'bonus abuse' rule and believe that to be a favorite excuse these sites make in order to keep peoples winnings.
But the rules they say I broke was that apparently I had more than one active account, which simply is not true. Costa bingo's website used to have a button located next to the login section of there page that read 'reactivate old account' Having not played for well over a year (possibly two) I had naturally forgotten my login details so did indeed reactivate my old account with a new username and password (which they ask you to provide when prompted to do so) As far as I was concerned, no rule breaking took place........they deny they ever had such a button with that option and when I look now, it has conveniently vanished! At the time I wish I had the good sense to take screen shots, but didn't expect this to happen to me.

They also state that I had previously and deliberately charged back deposits made on, and I quote "a site closely relating to us" meaning another Cassava run bingo site, namely Posh Bingo. This accusation is partly true as sometime in 2010 I was unfortunately the victim of online fraud. Several online accounts were accessed including Paypal, Facebook, Tombola bingo, Posh bingo and Ebay. Money was spent and much damage was done. When I realized what had happened, I reported it to my bank (I could no longer access my online banking either) and they agreed to replace the money that was taken. I received all of the funds that were spent and so case closed I thought. I was THAT worried it would happen again that I destroyed my laptop and invested in a new one.

No one company was ever targeted by me. I simply reported the fraud to my bank and they replaced the money. At the time, I was unaware of the term 'charge back' but soon became familiar with it after doing a Google search. In their T's & C's, they claim that if a charge back occurs, then said account will be closed and all winnings forfeited. This is fair enough, but surely that should only concern the site you are playing on, not Cassava regulated sites as a whole. The company are actually famous for withholding players money, favorite excuse being bonus abuse. Their reasons for not paying me however are yes, quite different. But what I am struggling to accept is that firstly, they are absolutely wrong about having two active accounts running at the same time, and secondly, the 'charge backs' were never made on THAT site. I never set out to defraud Cassava or anyone for that matter. It was I who was the victim of fraud. My laptop was literally taken over. Whats more, the bank confirmed the IP address of the fraudster who was located in Wales, I live in the west of Scotland, some 600 miles away! Cassava and the Gibraltar Gambling Commission simply do not want to know though. I have heard that these guys are in cahoots (unconfirmed) so winning a case against one of their own is near impossible.

No I didn't play with bonus funds, it was all my own money.

I was betting single numbers on roulette. Sorry but I cant remember exactly how many numbers I was placing bets on. However, I do know I didn't cover any where near the whole table.

The debit card I used to deposit was my own personal one, no other card or deposit type was used.

I hope these answers your questions. If you need anymore info, just ask.

Regards,
Ross.

 

[Jono777]

The bottom line is Cassava are money grabbers (so many different bingo skins backs this up) and DO NOT LIKE WINNERS!

 

[Rossco43]

I have been bitten by the 'Evil Cassava Vampires' in the past too

No where near the amount you describe, roughly £500 as best I can remember (was during 2011 ish)

Had accounts with Foxy, Costa, Sing, Hollywood and Cheeky.

Made regular but small deposits (£10/£20) and played both slots and bingo and also the free bingo which back then ran pretty much 24/7.

Had been advised of this 'little earner' by a friend and told read the T&C thoroughly before playing, which I did, there was no mention of a limit on the free bingo (which is where I made the majority of my profits)

Having had several withdrawals paid up to this point and being '4 figures' in profit easily across the sites all of a sudden I go to log in and discover all accounts are 'locked' and a nice Cassava security team' email sitting in my inbox.

Basically this was full of BS and invented stuff, mainly that I had breached a term regarding the free bingo, which was now limited to 'X' amount of games per week.

They had 'missed' my Bingo Street account whilst blocking me so I logged in to see that they had changed T&C but no emails, pop ups etc etc to inform players to accept new T&C.

During numerous e-mails back n forth trying to argue my point I also attached a copy of the T&C (which I had copied n pasted) - the ones I AGREED to when signing up, despite this they still would not budge and have not done so ever since.

The only 'peace' I found was the fact, as mentioned that I was 'well up' on them, this, despite the emails full of crap from their end is the ONLY reason they blocked me.

The bottom line is Cassava are money grabbers (so many different bingo skins backs this up) and DO NOT LIKE WINNERS!

Like a leopard they will never 'change their spots' - CM cannot help either as players are pre warned 'proceed with extreme caution'

Hi jonmincher,

Yep I'm afraid your right. These guys are literally getting away with theft. And the're doing so by using any excuse they so wish. They must have been rubbing their hands together when they seen the amount I won knowing that they could use the multiple account/charge back excuses against me, which are in this case irrelevant as I only had one reactivated account with then, and the charge backs didn't concern Costa Bingo.

Thankfully I now have people on board who are trying to help me claim back what is rightfully mine. It's about time these crooks were shut down for good! They simply cannot keep getting away with this.

Regards,
Ross.

 

[Rossco43]

From what i have read here so far the will not discuss player complaints with anyone. kind of a rouge outfit i guess.if you use the search box in the upper right corner of the site a little bit below the log out thing enter the name and do a search you will see a few threads about them come up read thru them and see how you go.

Thanks randomiam I'll check it out

Regards,
Ross.

 

[KasinoKing]

They also state that I had previously and deliberately charged back deposits made on, and I quote "a site closely relating to us" meaning another Cassava run bingo site, namely Posh Bingo. This accusation is partly true as sometime in 2010 I was unfortunately the victim of online fraud. Several online accounts were accessed including Paypal, Facebook, Tombola bingo, Posh bingo and Ebay. Money was spent and much damage was done. When I realized what had happened, I reported it to my bank (I could no longer access my online banking either) and they agreed to replace the money that was taken. I received all of the funds that were spent and so case closed I thought. I was THAT worried it would happen again that I destroyed my laptop and invested in a new one.

There lies your problem. Charge-backs are the absolute worst thing from a casino's point of view, and I have no doubt that is the main reason they confiscated your winnings.
Pains me to say it, but I think you are totally screwed here
Cassava do have a reputation for pulling "stunts" to confiscate winnings - but here, I think even they have a valid case, even though it was not really your fault. It depends on exactly what their T&Cs say.

If you are going to gamble ANYWHERE else online in the future, make sure you inform them of this "charge-back issue" and get it in writing that they will accept you as a player BEFORE you deposit. Stick to the Accredited List too - they are the best of the best.

K

 

[sigothx1]

KK covered pretty much what i was going to say, you admit charge backs and alltho the reason you give is fair and reasonable, you have to see it from a casinos perspective aswell, for example i work for a casino that has a sister casino ( alot smaller ) if joe bloggs charge backs at either casino, they are immediately banned from BOTH casinos, even if the reason was fraud ect, the casino sees it as lost revenue and does not care what the reason for it was.

that said, this particular site sounds very roguish, and if they didnt use that excuse im sure they would think of another, the 2-account issue for example.

as KK stated, if you ever do play online again, it might be worth your time letting support know about previous charge backs, to stop any voiding in the future.

 

[Rossco43]

There lies your problem. Charge-backs are the absolute worst thing from a casino's point of view, and I have no doubt that is the main reason they confiscated your winnings.
Pains me to say it, but I think you are totally screwed here
Cassava do have a reputation for pulling "stunts" to confiscate winnings - but here, I think even they have a valid case, even though it was not really your fault. It depends on exactly what their T&Cs say.

If you are going to gamble ANYWHERE else online in the future, make sure you inform them of this "charge-back issue" and get it in writing that they will accept you as a player BEFORE you deposit. Stick to the Accredited List too - they are the best of the best.

K

Hi KasinoKing.

I understand more NOW than I did back then about charge backs and how casino and bingo sites are regularly suffering 'losses' (as if) through this practice. Back in 2012, I wasn't aware of this. Whats more, my case for claiming money back was 100% genuine. So if people really do deliberately claim lost deposits back from these sites in a fraudulent manner, then shame on them, because it has cast a suspicious eye on everyone.......even if like me the claim is genuine!

It would be a valid excuse if it were the actual site the charge backs were made on, but it's not. Surely they cannot use another named site as a reason to persecute me for something that was out-with my control. I won the money on Costa Bingo, the charge backs took place on Posh Bingo. These should be totally different websites, but there not. So it came as a real shock to learn that what was actually happening was that I was playing on virtually the same site. Only some graphics, color layout and name were different. The bingo ball animations were identical. Even though Cassava regulate/own (whatever) both sites, they should still be stand alone and any rule breaking should concern that particular site and that site ONLY.

I'm going to keep fighting this as I strongly feel I have been treated unfairly by these guys. 23k is a heck of a lot of money to simply ignore. Plus given Cassava's dodgy record, I think I've got a case even if I did unknowingly break some Mickey mouse rules! I wont be treated like an imbecile by crooks like these. Whats more, I now have people who share my view so I'm keeping the faith.

Regards,
Ross.

 

[conker]

It's a weird one, as Cassava have an interesting arrangement with sites like Costa Bingo, where essentially they provide all the backend, support and transactions. Costa Bingo was originally set up by Mandalay Media and last year purchased by Intertain.

However, as this is a transaction dispute, you are dealing with the people behind 888.com. A casino very rarely mentioned on CM.

 

[Rossco43]

It's a weird one, as Cassava have an interesting arrangement with sites like Costa Bingo, where essentially they provide all the backend, support and transactions. Costa Bingo was originally set up by Mandalay Media and last year purchased by Intertain.

However, as this is a transaction dispute, you are dealing with the people behind 888.com. A casino very rarely mentioned on CM.

Hi conker.

I actually wrote to 888.com too but surprise surprise they didn't reply. You say Intertain acquired the company, do you know if they deal with the transaction side of things?

Ross.

 

[Rossco43]

KK covered pretty much what i was going to say, you admit charge backs and alltho the reason you give is fair and reasonable, you have to see it from a casinos perspective aswell, for example i work for a casino that has a sister casino ( alot smaller ) if joe bloggs charge backs at either casino, they are immediately banned from BOTH casinos, even if the reason was fraud ect, the casino sees it as lost revenue and does not care what the reason for it was.

that said, this particular site sounds very roguish, and if they didnt use that excuse im sure they would think of another, the 2-account issue for example.

as KK stated, if you ever do play online again, it might be worth your time letting support know about previous charge backs, to stop any voiding in the future.

Yes I agree that if they didn't have the charge back or (according to them) two account excuses, they would have definitely found another one. Probably their favorite excuse of all.......bonus abuse! I mean to use the word 'abuse' just shows how little they respect their loyal players. Rogues for certain! Since 2012 I have become a lot more savvy and cautious about what sites I join. Cassava Enterprise LTD are nothing more than common criminals. I hope that one day Karma bites them on the a**!

Ross.

 

[conker]

Hi Rossco37

Intertain bought Mandalay Media last year in a fairly big deal;

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

However, I don't want to give you false hopes, as it is likely they will direct you straight back to Costabingo customer support - ala Cassava.

You can Pitch a bitch at casinomeister, link below. However, as KasinoKing pointed out, the chargeback issue is not in your favour my friend.
Link Outdated / Removed

Here is Intertain's website - Outdated URL (Invalid), best of luck!

 

[Rossco43]

Hi Rossco37

Intertain bought Mandalay Media last year in a fairly big deal;

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

However, I don't want to give you false hopes, as it is likely they will direct you straight back to Costabingo customer support - ala Cassava.

You can Pitch a bitch at casinomeister, link below. However, as KasinoKing pointed out, the chargeback issue is not in your favour my friend.
Link Outdated / Removed

Here is Intertain's website - Outdated URL (Invalid), best of luck!

Thanks for this conker.

Yea I know by now not to get my hopes up about anything. This experience has actually put me off online gambling. I very rarely do it these days which is a shame as I really enjoyed it, particularly bingo (what a girl) lol

To tell you the truth it's been that long that I actually don't remember making the charge backs. So much personal tragedy has happened in the last five years that my memory just isn't the same. In fact it had only been ten months since my sisters passing that I won that money. So not only was I grieving, but these fools were making life more difficult than it had to be! Unfortunately I also lost my younger brother last year. But Anyway sorry, this isn't a counselling website, just wanted to share that with you so you can understand why I wont let this matter go. It's made me stronger, strong enough to keep fighting for what is rightfully mine. So what if I charged back money.........it wasn't deliberately meant to damage Cassava's already tarnished reputation. I was robbed so should quite rightfully have gotten my money back. If that put Cassava's nose out of joint, think how I felt. I'll keep fighting even if in the end I get nothing. At the very least it'll give them a very bad name within the online bingo community. A friend of a friend knows someone in national radio, so who knows

Ross.

 

[conker]

Ross

It sounds like you have had a very tough time and your dealings with Cassava can not have helped. I truely wish you the best of luck with getting your money back. You seem pretty determined, which is any gambling companies worst nightmare.

Definitely worth contacting Intertain, as this is a company who have coughed up a big chunk of money for Costa Bingo. I doubt they would be pleased to know there are situations like this occurring that could potentially harm their brand.

As for online gambling, this is sometimes the problem. True, honest reviews are very hard to come by. Casinomeister is one of the few forums with real credibility. Most sell out to the highest bidder, with little concern for where the player ends up. Unfortunately most of the sites accredited here are casinos, but you might find the odd bingo one.

conker

 

[dunover]

A chargebacker is likely blacklisted, and should they check in the case of a big win (or if they haven't at registration) you're SOL'd.
As for the GLGA, Cassava/888 ARE the Gibraltar LGA.....

 

[Rossco43]

Ross

It sounds like you have had a very tough time and your dealings with Cassava can not have helped. I truely wish you the best of luck with getting your money back. You seem pretty determined, which is any gambling companies worst nightmare.

Definitely worth contacting Intertain, as this is a company who have coughed up a big chunk of money for Costa Bingo. I doubt they would be pleased to know there are situations like this occurring that could potentially harm their brand.

As for online gambling, this is sometimes the problem. True, honest reviews are very hard to come by. Casinomeister is one of the few forums with real credibility. Most sell out to the highest bidder, with little concern for where the player ends up. Unfortunately most of the sites accredited here are casinos, but you might find the odd bingo one.

conker

Thanks conker.

Yea things have been very difficult, but life goes on.

As for contacting Intertain.....I am going to do so this very minute but wanted to ask your advice first. Firstly how should I approach them? Should I go straight in with what I initially posted here or mention that I wish to make a complaint regarding Costa first? And do you think I should mention I have posted on many forums and been in touch with people who are only too willing to go public with this? Also would it be Costa I am raising the complaint with or Cassava, or both?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated conker.

Ross.

 

[conker]

Hi Ross

I am probably not the best person to ask, as I have never persued a casino for not paying out winnings before. However, I will offer you a suggestion as to how I might go about it.

From a few quick searches on Intertain I have found that the CEO is John Kennedy Fitzgerald

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If you can find a linkedin page for him, then I would email him through there.

Otherwise, email the contact us page of the Intertain website and see if you can get a contact for someone dealing with Costa Bingo, such as the site manager or head of bingo.

Once you have a contact write a very clear and concise email outlining the issues you have raised and wait for a response.

Be prepared to get brushed off or pinged around the office several times. Remember Intertain are the umbrella company that sits above all these brands, so a ranty email at their corporate email address will probably get binned.

I am heading out now, but PM me and let me know how you get on or add to this thread if you get an answer. It's certainly worth a try!

Good luck

 

[dunover]

Thanks conker.

Yea things have been very difficult, but life goes on.

As for contacting Intertain.....I am going to do so this very minute but wanted to ask your advice first. Firstly how should I approach them? Should I go straight in with what I initially posted here or mention that I wish to make a complaint regarding Costa first? And do you think I should mention I have posted on many forums and been in touch with people who are only too willing to go public with this? Also would it be Costa I am raising the complaint with or Cassava, or both?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated conker.

Ross.

It's pointless making ANY claim or contact unless you are 100% sure you never breached the terms applicable at the time you signed up.

 

[Jono777]

....and even then its pretty pointless with these Bar Stewards

I was 100% NOT in breach of T&C and still got shafted.

* Gotta stop letting these 'skeletons in the closet' threads wind me up n all

 

[Rossco43]

Thanks for your comments guys.

Personally I feel nothing is worth giving up on, especially for that amount of money. As you would have read, I am a pretty determined person and so absolutely refuse to be taken for some mug by companies such as them. What they have done is immoral. I don't care about terms and conditions, most of them are designed just to scare folk, and if that ISN'T the intention, then somebody somewhere needs their P45!

Playing online should be fun, but with these 'rules' most of that fun is taken away. I mean I'm not surprised these places don't force you to take part in an assault course before signing up. Or insist you join a cult swearing on the word of some evil bingo god! It's ridiculous.
I'll keep fighting those crooks because I've done nothing wrong........despite what 'rule' I unintentionally broke.

Ross.

 

[dunover]

Thanks for your comments guys.

Personally I feel nothing is worth giving up on, especially for that amount of money. As you would have read, I am a pretty determined person and so absolutely refuse to be taken for some mug by companies such as them. What they have done is immoral. I don't care about terms and conditions, most of them are designed just to scare folk, and if that ISN'T the intention, then somebody somewhere needs their P45!

Playing online should be fun, but with these 'rules' most of that fun is taken away. I mean I'm not surprised these places don't force you to take part in an assault course before signing up. Or insist you join a cult swearing on the word of some evil bingo god! It's ridiculous.
I'll keep fighting those crooks because I've done nothing wrong........despite what 'rule' I unintentionally broke.

Ross.

At the time you played they had no UKGC licence as unnecessary for UK players. Therefore you would need to go to the Gib version which bend over for their casinos. This failed if I read correctly. Then you've got the IBAS avenue but usually this would come before the LGA which failed as you said - what grounds did they dismiss your case with?
So, you have already been overruled by the statutory body at the time which makes legal recompense harder to achieve. That's if there are no limitations on timescale for gambling issues. So you are effectively challenging the terms as an 'unfair contract' which is a lengthy, costly and difficult process. You would be arguing that the term is unfair and you seem to think that because the chargeback was not at that actual site but another related one, it shouldn't affect this claim. It's like arguing that if Wetherspoons in Smith Street banned you for doing something wrong, the ban shouldn't apply to Wetherspoons in Jones Street.

Good luck with it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This may not be so easy for them today, as consumer law should protect customers who have fallen victim to fraud as it is the fault of the business that a fraudster was able to utilise their services in the pursuit of a crime. It may well be possible to sue for damages equivalent to the lost winnings due to the way they originally handled the fraud.
This probably won't help much for the past, but may well help UK players under the new regime as Cassava have a separate UK licence, and it has been noted that UK players are bound by a different and "less rogue" set of terms than the rest, so they are clearly aware that there are things that they cannot get away with under UK laws that they can freely get away with in Gibraltar. It's the result there of being such a huge employer in such a small country that they have "blackmail" like power over the government. If the government there push too hard, Cassava can simply threaten to leave for an alternate jurisdiction, taking thousands of jobs and significant revenue with them.
HSBC have just tried this form of "blackmail" on the UK government because they are not too keen on some of the proposed regulatory measures designed to curb excesses that are STILL taking place in spite of the near collapse of the Western banking systems in 2008. HSBC came under fire for actively getting involved with tax avoidance schemes, and are objecting to new proposals designed to make such activity more or less impossible in the future, this is despite the fact that they have amply demonstrated that the current regulations were clearly insufficient, and that the banks could not be trusted to behave responsibly without the straitjacket of regulation.

 

[sigothx1]

This may not be so easy for them today, as consumer law should protect customers who have fallen victim to fraud as it is the fault of the business that a fraudster was able to utilise their services in the pursuit of a crime. It may well be possible to sue for damages equivalent to the lost winnings due to the way they originally handled the fraud.
This probably won't help much for the past, but may well help UK players under the new regime as Cassava have a separate UK licence, and it has been noted that UK players are bound by a different and "less rogue" set of terms than the rest, so they are clearly aware that there are things that they cannot get away with under UK laws that they can freely get away with in Gibraltar. It's the result there of being such a huge employer in such a small country that they have "blackmail" like power over the government. If the government there push too hard, Cassava can simply threaten to leave for an alternate jurisdiction, taking thousands of jobs and significant revenue with them.
HSBC have just tried this form of "blackmail" on the UK government because they are not too keen on some of the proposed regulatory measures designed to curb excesses that are STILL taking place in spite of the near collapse of the Western banking systems in 2008. HSBC came under fire for actively getting involved with tax avoidance schemes, and are objecting to new proposals designed to make such activity more or less impossible in the future, this is despite the fact that they have amply demonstrated that the current regulations were clearly insufficient, and that the banks could not be trusted to behave responsibly without the straitjacket of regulation.

im actively watching the election results so my post will be somewhat rushed, however! should the original poster make a claim against such a company the claimant in this case the op, would need to prove such a fraud took place, which is nigh impossible. that said the fees incurred to take an international company to court would be immense, the time it would take would also be very long, its just not going to happen. an IP address isn't proof someone else is using my PC it just means ive used a proxy, that's just one way id argue it was the op who did have a duplicate account, long post short, taking a casino to court is often mentioned, and never done. for the reasons i mentioned, and many, many more.

the op argued "so what i made charge backs at another casino that shouldn't affect my w/d's at another" unfortunately this is industry standard for casinos under the same umbrella, ive reads pabs that have raised the same issue, and have been unsuccessful. this is because charge backs are the plague of online casinos, as some are very legit for such reasons as the ops fraudulent claim, however the majority of people who charge back do it for a financial gain, and casinos have the right to ban/block/not pay players who do this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

im actively watching the election results so my post will be somewhat rushed, however! should the original poster make a claim against such a company the claimant in this case the op, would need to prove such a fraud took place, which is nigh impossible. that said the fees incurred to take an international company to court would be immense, the time it would take would also be very long, its just not going to happen. an IP address isn't proof someone else is using my PC it just means ive used a proxy, that's just one way id argue it was the op who did have a duplicate account, long post short, taking a casino to court is often mentioned, and never done. for the reasons i mentioned, and many, many more.

the op argued "so what i made charge backs at another casino that shouldn't affect my w/d's at another" unfortunately this is industry standard for casinos under the same umbrella, ive reads pabs that have raised the same issue, and have been unsuccessful. this is because charge backs are the plague of online casinos, as some are very legit for such reasons as the ops fraudulent claim, however the majority of people who charge back do it for a financial gain, and casinos have the right to ban/block/not pay players who do this.

Perhaps a better, and cheaper, option would be a complaint against the bank. If the bank did not obtain permission to recover the money via a means that caused damage to the reputation of it's customer, it could be liable for damages. It is something that has happened before. A bank that bounces a cheque due to an error, rather than because the customer does not have the funds, can be sued for libel if the fact of the bounced cheque causes damage to the reputation of the customer. A chargeback made in error or without proper permission may well also be considered a libel, in this case this libel would be that the customer lied about the fraud and deliberately engineered their own fraud, and this is EXACTLY how this is being interpreted by third parties. This has also caused a quantifiable financial loss, the winnings.

It would be much cheaper to take the bank to the Ombudsman on the grounds that it's careless actions were the cause of financial loss to the customer, and it would then be for the bank to make good that loss, not the casino, if the ombudsman so directs. The bank would then be the one to go gunning for Cassava, and this might not be so easy for them to ignore.

The root cause of all this is that the banks do NOT want the police involved as it will draw attention to the level of fraud, and the insecurity of it's systems and procedures. This is why they lobbied for the change that PREVENTS victims from dealing with the police, and forcing them to recover their money through the bank. As fraud is a crime, it is for it to be proven that the OP did it, not for him to prove that he didn't.

The fact that the casino's systems are sufficiently weak that this type of fraud is so easy is their fault. Most casinos STILL fail to use the additional protections built in for card-not-present transactions, and this is what makes it SO EASY for this kind of fraud to take place on casino sites, but far harder now on regular retail sites.

 

[Rossco43]

Thanks for the heads up guys.

I've absolutely no intention of going near a courtroom. I sought legal advice regarding this matter at the time, but nobody would touch it simply because they had no Idea how to go about suing an online gaming company. I have done a thorough search for specialty law firms who specifically deal with online gaming/gambling cases, but have yet to find one. I am also aware that should any event take place then of course it's gonna cost me, I'm under no illusions.

I will continue to annoy everyone involved with Costa even if it gets me nowhere. I know how these things work so am prepared to fail.
Having said all that, chargebacks aside for one moment. I think the important thing to remember is that Cassava Enterprise have a history of very bad business practices, ie: confiscating players winnings for playing free bingo or abusing bonuses. That's bad enough, but to then close their account permanently after and with no prior notice is just scandalous.........so surely that HAS to count for something! Yes I MAY of chargedback money, but even if I hadn't, they still would have found another excuse to barr me and keep my winnings because that's what they do.

So never mind what clout they have behind their terms. Fact is these D Heads have a history of pulling fast ones on people......FACT!
I personally believe that if everyone (who have had the misfortune of joining one of Cassava's sites and been stung out of money) got together and put our cases before Intertain, the UKGC, all major newspapers, watchdog and wherever else has power of influence......then there's always a chance. Forget legal channels, strength in numbers is the way to go! Trouble is there doesn't seem to be that many folk who have won as much as me, so they've probably accepted their losses put it down to a bad experience and moved on.........I'm afraid I just cant and I wont. 23 thousand pounds is life changing, and NOTHING I done warranted that amount to be taken away from me, not even a chargeback.

Ross.

 

[dunover]

Thanks for the heads up guys.

I've absolutely no intention of going near a courtroom. I sought legal advice regarding this matter at the time, but nobody would touch it simply because they had no Idea how to go about suing an online gaming company. I have done a thorough search for specialty law firms who specifically deal with online gaming/gambling cases, but have yet to find one. I am also aware that should any event take place then of course it's gonna cost me, I'm under no illusions.

I will continue to annoy everyone involved with Costa even if it gets me nowhere. I know how these things work so am prepared to fail.
Having said all that, chargebacks aside for one moment. I think the important thing to remember is that Cassava Enterprise have a history of very bad business practices, ie: confiscating players winnings for playing free bingo or abusing bonuses. That's bad enough, but to then close their account permanently after and with no prior notice is just scandalous.........so surely that HAS to count for something! Yes I MAY of chargedback money, but even if I hadn't, they still would have found another excuse to barr me and keep my winnings because that's what they do.

So never mind what clout they have behind their terms. Fact is these D Heads have a history of pulling fast ones on people......FACT!
I personally believe that if everyone (who have had the misfortune of joining one of Cassava's sites and been stung out of money) got together and put our cases before Intertain, the UKGC, all major newspapers, watchdog and wherever else has power of influence......then there's always a chance. Forget legal channels, strength in numbers is the way to go! Trouble is there doesn't seem to be that many folk who have won as much as me, so they've probably accepted their losses put it down to a bad experience and moved on.........I'm afraid I just cant and I wont. 23 thousand pounds is life changing, and NOTHING I done warranted that amount to be taken away from me, not even a chargeback.
Ross.

I am afraid that's where you're totally wrong.

 

[Rossco43]

I am afraid that's where you're totally wrong.

I understand. But as previously mentioned on this forum by someone else, It's near impossible for them to prove that I am the fraudster. Sure they SAY they have records of the chargebacks (I've never seen any documentation to support this) Cassava cannot prove that I deliberately set out to cheat them. My conscious is clear. It seems to be a simple case of my word against theirs. Without actual proof to back up their allegations, they have no grounds to accuse me of any wrong doing. At the end of the day it's up to the bank to prove otherwise, not Cassava. After all, it's the bank I went to to recoup my losses. I didn't report it to posh bingo because I knew it would fall on deaf ears. These guys are in the business of taking peoples money, not giving it back.......as that would NEVER happen, genuine fraud or not.

I know I'm probably fighting a lost cause, but if somebody doesn't have the balls to challenge these 'rules' then nothings EVER going to change, and the worse off for everyone it will be. I'm actually taking their word for this by the way. I haven't actually asked Cassava to send me proof of the chargebacks. I cant even gain access to bank statements from the time as that account has since been closed and I now bank with someone else. So really it's all hearsay until they can prove otherwise.

I hear you though dunover (great name) apt for me I think! lol

Anyway, it's not taking up a lot of my time to keep complaining. I work from home after all.
Maybe if I keep making a lot of noise, somebody somewhere will listen. As previously mentioned, I have a couple of folk who are royally pi**ed off with these people, not because they've been stung, but because they feel so strongly about unfair imoral rogue internet companies. They've been in the business a while and have helped other folk, so I'm optimistic.........It's the only way to be in life!

Ross.

 

[GoldenGhoul]

Decided to dig this up. I got some free spins on Slots of Dosh, which are a part of Cassava. Managed to fulfill the wagering requirements and have 80€ to withdraw. Now of course I need to make a deposit in order to withdraw. Their terms and conditions seem overly complicated, they have a few deposit / withdrawal methods and not all of them seem to work, e.g. one can deposit via MasterCard but not withdraw (they "prefer" VISA cards), I don't even know if I could withdraw via Neteller. Is it even worth trying to withdraw my free winnings? Suppose they don't want to pay me, they would have to return my deposit back to me, wouldn't they?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I understand. But as previously mentioned on this forum by someone else, It's near impossible for them to prove that I am the fraudster. Sure they SAY they have records of the chargebacks (I've never seen any documentation to support this) Cassava cannot prove that I deliberately set out to cheat them. My conscious is clear. It seems to be a simple case of my word against theirs. Without actual proof to back up their allegations, they have no grounds to accuse me of any wrong doing. At the end of the day it's up to the bank to prove otherwise, not Cassava. After all, it's the bank I went to to recoup my losses. I didn't report it to posh bingo because I knew it would fall on deaf ears. These guys are in the business of taking peoples money, not giving it back.......as that would NEVER happen, genuine fraud or not.

I know I'm probably fighting a lost cause, but if somebody doesn't have the balls to challenge these 'rules' then nothings EVER going to change, and the worse off for everyone it will be. I'm actually taking their word for this by the way. I haven't actually asked Cassava to send me proof of the chargebacks. I cant even gain access to bank statements from the time as that account has since been closed and I now bank with someone else. So really it's all hearsay until they can prove otherwise.

I hear you though dunover (great name) apt for me I think! lol

Anyway, it's not taking up a lot of my time to keep complaining. I work from home after all.
Maybe if I keep making a lot of noise, somebody somewhere will listen. As previously mentioned, I have a couple of folk who are royally pi**ed off with these people, not because they've been stung, but because they feel so strongly about unfair imoral rogue internet companies. They've been in the business a while and have helped other folk, so I'm optimistic.........It's the only way to be in life!

Ross.

If the noise is loud enough to cost them business, they may start to listen. It's likely to be very hard to find a lawyer who knows enough to take this on, but the new UK rules make it much easier as you are effectively suing a UK licenced gambling firm in a UK court, rather than trying to sue an offshore firm in Gibraltar as would have been the case before. You will need a lawyer with experience of international law if you are going to take them on, otherwise you will need to get the media interested in raising the more general story that the new UK rules are NOT protecting players as intended, and that the Consumer protection laws are also failing to protect customers from "unfair business practice".

As for the old bank, you CAN get those statements, you have to treat it as a request under the data protection act rather than a regular request for back copies of statements. If they still have these records, they will have to supply you with a copy for the statutory fee of £10, and have a certain number of days in which to comply. You still have the option of complaining about the bank who's actions in dealing with the problem caused this problem in the first place. It doesn't matter that you no longer bank with them. If the bank are in the wrong, the ombudsman may order the bank to make good your loss. This gets rid of the problem of having to sue Cassava.