Cracking the slot reels - Here you go!

[steinhaug]

Alot of people have interest in the reels on the slots, how do they look. I guess we can share with eachother how they infact are mapped. Here are some of mine for you:

Reels in this post:

• Tomb Raider
• Secret Admirer
• Bush Telegraph
• Loaded
• Moonshine

Tomb Raider:
0 - Tomb Raider
1 - Golden Statue
2 - Brown symbol with cogs
3 - Laura Croft
4 - Tiger
5 - A
6 - K
7 - Q
8 - J
9 - 10
10 - Feature trigger

Reel 1 : 0,10,6,5,1,4,3,8,0,7,5,1,6,2,4,1,7,8,3,9,8,1,9,7
Reel 2 : 0,1,7,3,6,7,9,5,2,8,1,3,5,9,7,2,9,10,6,5,4,9,1,6,3,7,8,4
Reel 3 : 0,9,3,2,8,7,1,9,5,4,6,5,8,10,9,6,4,8,5,7,1,9,3,6,4,8,2,7,5,4,6,7,3,8
Reel 4 : 0,3,8,4,7,2,6,4,9,8,1,7,6,5,2,4,3,7,2,9,10,8,7,3,5,7,2,5,4,6,5,1,9,5,7,2,8,3,6,9
Reel 5 : 0,9,1,8,7,3,2,8,6,10,9,4,5,3,7,6,2,4,5,8,4,6,2,1,5,7,3,9,2,7,6,4,8,1,3,5,9,4,2,7

Secret Admirer:
0 - Wild
1 - Red Secret Admirer Heart
2 - Purple Avmor amulett
3 - Rose, heart shape
4 - Perfume bottkle, blue
5 - Red rose
6 - A
7 - K
8 - Q
9 - J
10 - 10
11 - 9
12 - 8
13 - 7
14 - Diamond ring, feature

Reel 1: 0,9,1,7,12,3,9,4,13,11,12,5,8,12,2,10,12,13,3,10,12,9,11,14,9,11,12,5,8,12,9,10,8,10,11,10,5,10,9,11,1,10,8,5,6,3,10,8,12,9
Reel 2: 0,6,9,3,13,11,9,5,11,2,7,12,14,6,8,13,1,6,8,4,10,9,11,7,5,12,10,11,2,13,4,7,14,12,6,3,8,10,9,7,10,4,6,8,12,5,11,9,6,4
Reel 3: 0,1,12,11,7,3,13,9,2,13,10,11,7,5,7,14,13,6,7,8,2,7,13,4,12,7,11,9
Reel 4: 0,6,3,7,1,2,12,4,13,14,8,6,3,9,4,11,10,4,8,1,7,4,5,11,8,3,7,10
Reel 5: 0,3,11,5,13,9,12,10,2,8,4,12,11,7,6,3,12,5,10,14,12,1,12,3,5,11,7,5

Bush Telegraph:
0 - Wild
1 - Bongo Bonus
2 - Purple animal
3 - Swine
4 - Parrot
5 - A
6 - K
7 - Q
8 - J
9 - 10
10 - Feature symbol
Reel 1: 0,10,6,5,1,4,3,8,0,7,5,1,6,2,4,1,7,8,3,9,8,1,9,7
Reel 2: 0,1,7,3,6,7,9,5,2,8,1,3,5,9,7,2,9,10,6,5,4,9,1,6,3,7,8,4
Reel 3: 0,9,3,2,8,7,1,9,5,4,6,5,8,10,9,6,4,8,5,7,1,9,3,6,4,8,2,7,5,4,6,7,3,8
Reel 4: 0,3,8,4,7,2,6,4,9,8,1,7,6,5,2,4,3,7,2,9,10,8,7,3,5,7,2,5,4,6,5,1,9,5,7,2,8,3,6,9
Reel 5: 0,9,1,8,7,3,2,8,6,10,9,4,5,3,7,6,2,4,5,8,4,6,2,1,5,7,3,9,2,7,6,4,8,1,3,5,9,4,2,7

Loaded:
0 - 777 gangster
1 - lady, black hair
2 - lady, purple outfit
3 - lady, yellow hair
4 - thin man, gold chain and brown jacket
5 - fat man, green outfit
6 - white capitol building
7 - red boat
8 - purple car
9 - music price
10 - scratch machine
11 - hand with microphone, feature

Reel 1: 0,10,5,8,3,7,4,8,2,6,11,10,3,9,4,8,6,10,5,9,2,7,6,11,10,1,9,4,8,5,7,10,3,9,6,7
Reel 2: 0,7,2,9,4,10,5,8,3,10,4,9,5,8,6,1,11,10,3,9,5,7,1,8,2,7,4,10,6,9,3,8,5,7,6
Reel 3: 0,7,1,8,4,10,6,9,3,7,10,5,9,4,11,10,2,9,6,8,4,7,5,6,2,10,3,9,6,8,5,7,1,8
Reel 4: 0,7,6,2,9,3,10,5,8,1,9,4,10,3,7,9,2,10,11,8,6,7,3,8,4,10,6,9,5,7,1,6,8
Reel 5: 0,10,6,9,1,8,4,6,7,3,11,10,5,9,2,8,1,7,4,10,6,9,2,8,5,7,10,6,9,3,8,6,7

Moonshine:
0 - Grandma
1 - Old man with pipe, and brown hat and red eyebrows
2 - guitar playing man
3 - Man with big feet and black hair
4 - Pig
5 - pumpkin pie
6 - red beans in frying pan
7 - purple pot
8 - box of sardines
9 - Green fruit slices
10 - Bonus bottle
11 - Police officer

Main reel 1: 0,9,3,8,5,7,6,4,7,11,9,2,8,6,3,10,7,6,5,8,6,0,9,7,4,2,11,5,8,6,10,9,1,8,7
Main reel 2: 0,6,9,7,3,8,10,7,2,8,5,9,11,7,3,6,4,2,6,10,8,7,4,11,8,5,9,0,6,1,7,5,8,6,9
Main reel 3: 0,9,7,4,2,5,8,7,6,10,9,3,8,5,7,1,6,0,9,4,8,6,7,11,9,2,8,4,7,6,11,9,1,8,3,6,5,8
Main reel 4: 0,6,9,3,7,9,4,8,7,2,0,1,4,7,6,10,9,5,8,7,6,0,9,6,8,5,4,1,11,7,3,8,11,5,2,8,4,9,5
Main reel 5: 0,7,6,8,4,7,5,9,10,3,1,4,7,5,11,8,1,9,0,7,8,2,5,6,11,1,3,9,11,6,7,4,8,5,9,2,6,8,4,9

Symbols are the same for bonus reels, except other images.

Bonus reel 1: 0,9,3,5,1,7,4,6,0,9,5,11,4,8,11,6,8,2,11,6,7,5
Bonus reel 2: 0,9,7,5,11,8,5,6,1,5,4,7,0,9,6,3,8,2,6,4
Bonus reel 3: 0,5,6,11,7,5,4,9,0,6,4,8,2,6,1,8,5,3,7,9
Bonus reel 4: 0,5,8,4,6,1,5,6,3,11,7,4,9,0,8,2,6,5,11,9,7
Bonus reel 5: 0,7,6,5,1,8,6,11,9,4,6,2,7,11,5,4,8,5,9,3

 

[KasinoKing]

A lot of people have interest in the reels on the slots, how do they look. I guess we can share with each other how they in fact are mapped. Here are some of mine for you:

Excellent! :notworthy
How did you get the data? Got any more?

I plotted out Tomb Raider myself - took bleedin hours & hours!

Some other members have posted ThunderStruck/Ladies/Spring and Harveys in the past too.

 

[steinhaug]

I plotted out Tomb Raider myself - took bleedin hours & hours!

All the above slots took infact under 10 minutes, I posted in some other thread, also two years ago, how you do it. It's really simple. The flash casino infact feeds you the reel layout, together with symbol positions and symbol numbers for each spin - so by looking at the HTTP traffic to the browser you crack the reels in under 10 spins on all the videoslots with feature. The others don't feed the reel layout, so there you need say 20-30 minutes pr game to crack tops. Good thing is you get 100% accuracy this way.

Cracking the other games is harder since you need to sniff TCP traffic (windump is your dos tool), however I have no experience in depacking TCP packets so it's only garble to me.

Maby i'll take a wack at the rest of the slots tomorrow if not someone else does it by then.

I recomend HTTPWatch for IE, nice tool to grab all the traffic between the browser and MG-server.

I have alot of questions regarding the other information comming in the XML feed, but I will save this for an appropriate thread - trying to keep this thread strictly reel cracking,

 

[moonchica]

Why

I know there is a lot of work in this, and people are interested, but I have to ask what good does it do? How can this information help?

Sorry to be dense, but I don't understand how this translates into helping you beat slots.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Alot of people have interest in the reels on the slots, how do they look. I guess we can share with eachother how they infact are mapped. Here are some of mine for you:

I wish I could thank you 20 times for this! I suppose I could do the same by loading Ethereal and doing it myself but this is great!

I don't understand how this translates into helping you beat slots.

It won't help you beat slots - but it will help you estimate the theoretical return %, as opposed to relying on empirical monthly data that the casinos publish.

 

[Zoozie]

Yes, this is a major breakthrough! I will add the new slots to the slot simulator in 1-2 days. It will be interesting so see how much the payout differ between them.

I will need help from the veterans with Tomb Raider because of the picking bonus games. Since the symbols has to be lined up the usual left-to-right way, the
analyzer can be used on it, we just need to know what the average win is in terms of bet-size for 3,4,5 scatters. Anyone?
The other more special slots with weird features can not be analyzed at the time. But it can be implemented of course if I have time.

I did a lot of work trying to get the reels a faster way, but it was stupid that I did not sniff the traffic during initialization of the slots. I even decompiled the flash code but could not find the reels. (which should have given me a clue at least)

Also now when we have the reels available so easy, we can see very fast if any MG updates actually are slot updates changing the reels/payouts.

Zooizie

 

[SlotsWizard]

I will need help from the veterans with Tomb Raider because of the picking bonus games. Since the symbols has to be lined up the usual left-to-right way, the
analyzer can be used on it, we just need to know what the average win is in terms of bet-size for 3,4,5 scatters. Anyone?

You bet!

The player picks 1 idol for each symbol that triggered the feature (3, 4 or 5).

Each idol contains between 12x - 100x of the amount bet on the payline.

So the average win per idol is ([100 - 12] / 2) + 12 = 56x payline bet, therefore the combined average wins are:

3 idols = 168x payline bet = 11.20x total bet if all 15 lines are played
4 idols = 224x payline bet = 14.93x total bet if all 15 lines are played
5 idols = 280x payline bet = 18.67x total bet if all 15 lines are played

To make it easier, just treat 3 idols as a regular payline win of 168 coins, 4 idols as a regular payline win of 224 coins, and 5 idols as a regular payline win of 280 coins.

And this applies to Bush Telegraph, Mermaids Millions, Wasabi-San and World Cup Mania since they're all clones of the same game.

 

[Zoozie]

The flash casino infact feeds you the reel layout, together with symbol positions and symbol numbers for each spin - so by looking at the HTTP traffic to the browser you crack the reels in under 10 spins on all the videoslots with feature. The others don't feed the reel layout, so there you need say 20-30 minutes pr game to crack tops. Good thing is you get 100% accuracy this way.

It is weird the slots works in a different way if there is a feature or not. Maybe there is another mechanism that decides it. Have you tried the really old MG slots, those without features ? (5 or 9 liners, cant remember which)

Zoozie

 

[SlotsWizard]

I screwed up a little. Fortunately I was able to edit the above post, which now contains the correct figures. I had forgotten to add the 12 back in to the per-idol payout.

 

[steinhaug]

It is weird the slots works in a different way if there is a feature or not. Maybe there is another mechanism that decides it. Have you tried the really old MG slots, those without features ?

Looks like the non-feature slots have hard-coded reels, but for some reason feature slots needs to be fed the reel-layout... I wonder if the reel-layout changes sometimes...

I even decompiled the flash code but could not find the reels.

Hehe, going thorugh action scripting is a lot of fun but most likely the flash binaries we download are only for presentational purposes (as you figured out by not finding what your were looking for). The interesting thing is that all reels, payouts, gamble, whatever are fed in the XML stream. The SWF binarie is just a handy tool that will visually show whatever the XML stream wants it to be. By this I mean, if there is any tricks hidden somewhere it will be impossible for us to find it in here - we need the code from the server - which we will never get anyway.

*******************************************************

Then we have some more reels to line up, in this lineup:

• Cashville
• Tally Ho
• What on Earth
• Reel Strike
• HoHoHo
• Mermaids Millions
• Big Kahuna

Cashville
0 - Wild with red ruby
1 - Bill Burton
2 - Dame Von Deeds
3 - Sir Sterling
4 - Betty Boodle
5 - sigar dollar
6 - Blue dollars, purple thing
7 - green dollars with coins
8 - Purple dollars
9 - Bonus
10 - Scatter

Reel 1: 0,8,2,7,5,6,10,2,1,7,5,3,6,9,5,7,4,5,7,3,8,5,7
Reel 2: 0,4,6,1,8,6,3,5,8,6,3,7,9,8,1,5,6,10,8,2,6,4,8,7
Reel 3: 0,6,5,8,4,5,10,6,1,8,7,3,6,5,8,6,2,5,9,7,5,1,7,4,6,8,7,2,6,7,5
Reel 4: 0,8,5,6,3,5,8,2,6,5,4,6,8,1,5,7,4,6,3,5,9,6,1,5,7,10,6,2,5,7,8,5,6,7
Reel 5: 0,7,8,2,5,6,9,8,1,5,6,4,5,6,2,8,6,5,7,4,5,6,1,7,8,10,5,7,3,6,10,5


Tally Ho
0 - Wild (horse)
1 - Fox
2 - Foxy lady
3 - Capitol
4 - Yellow Car
5 - Horse emblem (two horses)
6 - Blue pottery
7 - Strawberries
8 - Sandwitches
9 - Cakes on plate, with knife
10 - Cheese on wooden piece
11 - Cheece pie pice with fork (white with purple spot)
12 - Scatter
Reel 1: 0,2,11,5,1,2,7,10,9,5,4,6,12,9,8,3,2,1,3,9,10,5,6,9,8,11,9,8,4,5
Reel 2: 0,11,12,4,2,1,11,9,5,6,7,9,11,4,5,3,9,10,3,9,2,4,3,6,9,4,11,7,8,9
Reel 3: 0,2,10,8,1,4,7,10,8,6,10,12,3,1,6,11,10,8,5,6,10,7,3,8,4,1,8,10,9,8
Reel 4: 0,4,9,7,11,6,5,1,2,7,8,11,7,10,9,3,7,4,5,11,7,3,12,6,2,1,5,6,10,11
Reel 5: 0,3,2,9,8,4,1,2,5,10,6,4,9,1,10,6,8,7,5,3,8,9,3,1,2,5,7,11,6,10,8,7,2,4,10,3,6,11,9,1,5,12,2,4

What on Earth
0 - What on Earth
1 - Alien inside red ring
2 - Control Panel
3 - Kryptonite (Green asteroide)
4 - Watermelon
5 - Plum
6 - Orange
7 - Cherry
8 - Blue ship
9 - Green UFO
10 - Red Rocket
Reel 1: 0,7,6,3,4,5,7,6,3,4,5,7,3,4,5,7,6,10,3,7,5,6,3,4,5,6,2,4,5,7,6,3,4,5,6,3,4,5,7,6,1,4,5,3,4,7,6,3,4,5,6,3,4,5,7,6,3,4,5,7,6,5
Reel 2: 0,6,7,5,4,7,6,5,7,6,1,7,4,6,5,3,7,4,6,7,5,10,7,6,5,7,2,4,7
Reel 3: 0,4,6,9,4,5,7,2,6,4,10,5,7,3,1,7,6,3,7,5,8,7
Reel 4: 0,5,3,10,6,2,7,8,6,5,1,4,9,1,7,3,2,7,6,3
Reel 5: 0,7,3,8,6,1,7,5,10,4,1,6,9,2,6,3,10,5,2,3,10,4,1,7,3,1,6

Reel Strike
0 - Wild
1 - Reel Strike symbol
2 - Yatch in window
3 - Speed throttle
4 - Big fish, head right with big yellow "hair"
5 - Blue/metalish fish flapping
6 - Blue long fish, head to right
7 - Red fish flapping
8 - Flying fish
9 - Bonus
10 - Bonus (Only in bonus game)
11 - Scatter

Reel 1: 0,8,5,9,7,5,1,6,7,9,8,5,6,9,7,2,5,9,4,11,3,6,9,8,4,9,8,6,2,7
Reel 2: 0,7,4,6,9,7,8,9,1,11,9,7,8,4,9,8,5,9,6,4,2,8,9,3,4,6,9,7,3
Reel 3: 0,8,7,9,2,6,3,8,9,4,5,11,4,9,5,4,3,9,5,7,8,9,4,5,6,9,1,7,9,5,6
Reel 4: 0,8,7,9,8,3,9,1,6,9,2,3,9,11,5,9,4,7,9,6,3,5,9,8,2,6,5,2,9,7,1
Reel 5: 0,7,8,2,3,9,1,3,6,9,5,4,2,6,8,1,9,7,3,6,9,4,2,8,9,5,1,4,5,6,9,1,8,11,3,9,4,5,9,7,2

Bonus reelsets:
Reel 1: 0,8,5,10,7,5,1,6,7,10,8,5,6,10,7,2,5,10,4,11,3,6,10,8,4,10,8,6,2,7
Reel 2: 0,7,4,6,10,7,8,10,1,11,10,7,8,4,10,8,5,10,6,4,2,8,10,3,4,6,10,7,3
Reel 3: 0,8,7,10,2,6,3,8,10,4,5,11,4,10,5,4,3,10,5,7,8,10,4,5,6,10,1,7,10,5,6
Reel 4: 0,8,7,10,8,3,10,1,6,10,2,3,10,11,5,10,4,7,10,6,3,5,10,8,2,6,5,2,10,7,1
Reel 5: 0,7,8,2,3,10,1,3,6,10,5,4,2,6,8,1,10,7,3,6,10,4,2,8,10,5,1,4,5,6,10,1,8,11,3,10,4,5,10,7,2

HOHOHO
0 - Santa
1 - Reindeer
2 - Santas sley
3 - Christmas tree
4 - Turkey
5 - Chocolate "ball" with topping
6 - Punch, coockies and glas of milk
7 - Pepper man
8 - Sugarcane
9 - Gift (feature)

Reel 1: 0,7,5,4,6,8,3,2,7,6,4,9,8,5,1,7,3,6,8,7,2,8,6,7,8,6
Reel 2: 0,7,6,2,5,6,8,4,1,7,0,4,7,8,6,1,8,9,5,6,3,8,7,2,8,6,7,3
Reel 3: 0,8,2,1,7,6,8,4,3,5,4,7,9,8,5,3,7,4,6,8,2,6,5,3,7,1,6,4,3,5,6,8,2,7
Reel 4: 0,2,7,3,6,1,5,3,8,7,6,5,4,1,3,2,6,1,8,9,7,6,2,4,6,1,4,3,5,4,8,6,4,1,7,2,5,8
Reel 5: 0,8,7,6,2,1,7,5,9,8,3,4,2,6,5,1,3,4,7,3,5,1,4,9,6,2,8,1,6,5,3,7,2,4,8,3,1,6

Mermaids Millions
0 - Wild, Neptun
1 - Treasure chest
2 - diamond chest
3 - Clam with Perl
4 - Seahorse / Hippocampus
5 - A
6 - K
7 - Q
8 - J
9 - 10
10 - Scatter
Reel 1: 0,10,6,5,1,4,3,8,0,7,5,1,6,2,4,1,7,8,3,9,8,1,9,7
Reel 2: 0,1,7,3,6,7,9,5,2,8,1,3,5,9,7,2,9,10,6,5,4,9,1,6,3,7,8,4
Reel 3: 0,9,3,2,8,7,1,9,5,4,6,5,8,10,9,6,4,8,5,7,1,9,3,6,4,8,2,7,5,4,6,7,3,8
Reel 4: 0,3,8,4,7,2,6,4,9,8,1,7,6,5,2,4,3,7,2,9,10,8,7,3,5,7,2,5,4,6,5,1,9,5,7,2,8,3,6,9
Reel 5: 0,9,1,8,7,3,2,8,6,10,9,4,5,3,7,6,2,4,5,8,4,6,2,1,5,7,3,9,2,7,6,4,8,1,3,5,9,4,2,7

Big Kahuna
0 - Big Kahuna
1 - Ogha Bugha man
2 - Lizard
3 - Orange
4 - ..Green fruit
5 - ..Red fruit
6 - Water melon
7 - Ananas
8 - Red berries
9 - Vulcano
10 - Ugha Bugha mask
11 - Monkey / Scatter
Reel 1: 0,8,2,9,7,1,9,3,6,2,10,5,1,9,7,2,10,5,4,11,10,3,5,9,2,8,4,9,1,6,10
Reel 2: 0,7,10,3,6,2,8,10,1,11,9,7,2,10,3,4,5,9,6,4,2,8,10,3,4,1,10,3,7,9
Reel 3: 0,1,10,7,2,6,3,8,1,4,11,2,9,5,4,3,6,1,7,8,2,10,5,6,9,1,7,8
Reel 4: 0,2,7,9,8,3,1,10,2,6,3,11,5,9,4,7,9,6,3,5,8,2,10,6,2,5,9,7,1,10
Reel 5: 0,7,8,2,3,10,1,3,6,9,5,4,2,10,6,8,1,9,7,3,6,9,4,2,8,10,5,1,4,5,6,9,1,8,10,11,3,4,2,5,7,1

 

[Zoozie]

Thank you for providing more reals.

I will implement HOHOHO in the slotsimulator later today, and I will also check that we actually have the correct reels for Thunderstruck/Tally Ho.

Next one I will do is Loaded. The slot simulator already has it, but I am not sure the reels are correct.

Zoozie

 

[steinhaug]

Next one I will do is Loaded. The slot simulator already has it, but I am not sure the reels are correct.

Uless you really want to do it, dont' bother. Im going through all of the feature slots now and will post the reels during the next hour,

Note, I noticed I already posted the reels - however doing a checkup on me is not only fun for you, but great for everybody; I'm fascinated on how quick this method was!

 

[steinhaug]

And here comes the rest of the mappable flash slots. Alot of clones here, however I mapped all individually just in case.

• Ladies Nite
• Skull Duggery
• Spring Break
• Reel Thunder
• Vinyl Countdown
• SunQuest
• Carnaval
• What a Hoot
• 5 Reel drive
• Big Top
• Monster Mania
• Gophers Gold
• Crazy Chameleons
• Oriental Fortune
• Spectacular

Ladies Nite
0 - Wild
1 - Ladie with discoball
2 - Drink
3 - Perfume
4 - Purse
5 - Lipstick
6 - A
7 - K
8 - Q
9 - J
10 - 10
11 - 9
12 - Scatter

Reel 1: 0,2,11,5,1,2,7,10,9,5,4,6,12,9,8,3,2,1,3,9,10,5,6,9,8,11,9,8,4,5
Reel 2: 0,11,12,4,2,1,11,9,5,6,7,9,11,4,5,3,9,10,3,9,2,4,3,6,9,4,11,7,8,9
Reel 3: 0,2,10,8,1,4,7,10,8,6,10,12,3,1,6,11,10,8,5,6,10,7,3,8,4,1,8,10,9,8
Reel 4: 0,4,9,7,11,6,5,1,2,7,8,7,11,10,9,3,7,4,5,11,7,3,12,6,2,1,5,6,10,11
Reel 5: 0,3,2,9,8,4,1,2,5,10,6,4,9,1,10,6,8,7,5,3,8,9,3,1,2,5,7,11,6,10,8,7,2,4,10,3,6,11,9,1,5,12,2,4

Skull Duggery
0 - Skull Duggery
1 - Pirate with red beard
2 - Map with knife
3 - Beer-mug
4 - Sliced orange
5 - Grapes
6 - Orange plums?
7 - Banana
8 - Coconut
9 - Blue pirate with chest (feature)
10 - Scatter
Reel 1: 0,8,2,9,7,1,8,3,6,2,9,5,1,9,7,2,9,5,4,10,6,3,5,9,2,8,4,9,1,6,7
Reel 2: 0,7,3,6,2,8,5,1,10,9,7,2,8,3,4,5,9,6,4,2,8,6,3,4,1,3,7,9
Reel 3: 0,1,7,2,6,3,8,1,4,10,2,9,5,4,3,6,1,7,8,2,5,6,9,1,7,8
Reel 4: 0,2,7,9,8,3,1,2,6,3,10,5,9,4,7,9,6,3,5,8,2,6,5,2,9,7,1
Reel 5: 0,7,8,2,3,1,6,3,9,5,4,2,6,8,1,9,7,3,6,9,4,2,8,5,1,4,5,6,9,1,8,10,3,4,2,5,7,1

Spring Break
0 - Wild, Spring break
1 - Cowboy in red car
2 - Man with beerbottle in pool
3 - Women sunbathing
4 - Yellow, men with bench
5 - Meat on the grill
6 - Easter roll on dish
7 - Hamburger
8 - Pizza slice
9 - Bowl of chips and dip
10 - Beer bottles
11 - Ice cream
12 - Feature, Party Party
Reel 1: 0,2,11,5,1,2,7,10,9,5,4,6,12,9,8,3,2,1,3,9,10,5,6,9,8,11,9,8,4,5
Reel 2: 0,11,12,4,2,1,11,9,5,6,7,9,11,4,5,3,9,10,3,9,2,4,3,6,9,4,11,7,8,9
Reel 3: 0,2,10,8,1,4,7,10,8,6,10,12,3,1,6,11,10,8,5,6,10,7,3,8,4,1,8,10,9,8
Reel 4: 0,4,9,7,11,6,5,1,2,7,8,7,11,10,9,3,7,4,5,11,7,3,12,6,2,1,5,6,10,11
Reel 5: 0,3,2,9,8,4,1,2,5,10,6,4,9,1,10,6,8,7,5,3,8,9,3,1,2,5,7,11,6,10,8,7,2,4,10,3,6,11,9,1,5,12,2,4

Reel Thunder
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild (heart with wings)
2 - Pig with helmet, green background
3 - Motorbike wheel
4 - Biker siluette with orange flaming background
5 - Cruisin plate
6 - Speedometer
7 - Road House beer
8 - Flaming pepper on cracker
9 - Hotdog
10 - Hotdog
11 - Eggs and Bacon
12 - Plate with pancakes
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

Vinyl Countdown
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Vinyl Countdown
3 - Man with funky hair and music
4 - Girl with hearts
5 - heart with dancing siluette
6 - Shoes
7 - Banana split
8 - Icecream in glass
9 - Waffle with ice
10 - Waffle with ice
11 - Brown pudding with chocolate topping and cherry
12 - Chocolate flavour drink with straw
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

SunQuest
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Gold emblem, S
3 - diamond
4 - 7
5 - Bell
6 - Bar
7 - orange
8 - water melon
9 - lemon
10 - lemon
11 - Strawberries
12 - ..two redish plums
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

Carnaval
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Carnaval symbol
3 - Woman with carnival thingie on head
4 - Clown
5 - Brown banner
6 - Trumpet
7 - A
8 - K
9 - Q
10 - Q
11 - J
12 - 10
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

What a Hoot
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - What a Hoot
3 - Red owl
4 - Yellow owl
5 - Blue owl
6 - Silver owl
7 - Berries
8 - Red berry
9 - Nuts (roundish, spikes)
10 - Nuts (roundish, spikes)
11 - Sunflower seeds
12 - Nuts (longish)
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

5 Reel drive
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Burning wheel with start flag
3 - Red man with truck
4 - Yellow man with car
5 - Pink lady with car
6 - Dices
7 - Hamburger
8 - French fries
9 - bottle and cup
10 - bottle and cup
11 - Pie slice
12 - Cup of coffe
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

Big Top
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Big Top
3 - Leon
4 - Clown
5 - Elephant
6 - Seal
7 - A
8 - K
9 - Q
10 - Q
11 - J
12 - 10
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 1: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 1: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 1: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 1: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

Monster Mania
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Green Monster
3 - orange/blue monster with spikes
4 - Blue monster
5 - Alien eye
6 - Snake
7 - Apple
8 - Orange
9 - Water melon
10 - Water melon
11 - Grapes
12 - Banana
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

Gophers Gold
0 - Gophers Gold
1 - Wild
2 - Dynamite exploding
3 - Bag of gold and "thingie" to hack with
4 - Mining cart with gold
5 - Lamp
6 - A
7 - K
8 - Q
9 - J
10 - 10
Reel 1: 1,2,8,3,4,0,10,5,7,9,6
Reel 2: 4,3,2,8,10,0,9,5,1,7,6
Reel 3: 7,10,4,1,3,0,8,9,2,5,6
Reel 4: 9,5,7,10,2,0,4,1,8,3,6
Reel 5: 2,1,3,9,7,0,10,8,4,5,6

Crazy Chameleons
0 - Bird
1 - Surf boards
2 - K
3 - J
4 - Trousers
5 - Wild
6 - Chameleon
7 - Q
8 - Sun
9 - 10
Reel 1: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Reel 2: 2,0,9,1,3,5,8,6,4,7
Reel 3: 3,8,2,9,7,5,0,4,6,1
Reel 4: 6,4,7,0,8,5,9,1,3,2
Reel 5: 1,6,3,4,9,5,2,7,8,0

Oriental Fortune
0 - Dragon
1 - Blue house
2 - K
3 - J
4 - Fish
5 - Lady
6 - Oriental Fortune
7 - Q
8 - Golden Statue
9 - 10
Reel 1: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Reel 2: 2,0,9,1,3,5,8,6,4,7
Reel 3: 3,8,2,9,7,5,0,4,6,1
Reel 4: 6,4,7,0,8,5,9,1,3,2
Reel 5: 1,6,3,4,9,5,2,7,8,0

Spectacular
0 - Spectacular
1 - EMPTY
2 - 7
3 - EMPTY
4 - bar x 3
5 - bar x 3
6 - EMPTY
7 - bar x 2
8 - EMPTY
9 - bar x 1
10 - EMPTY
11 - Admit one ticket
12 - EMPTY
13 - SPIN
Reel 1: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,5,14
Reel 2: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,5,14
Reel 3: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14

 

[Kaynos72]

Can someone map Golden-Goose Totem Treasure please ? I really like this slot.

 

[gerilege]

Some consequences

5 Reel drive
0 - Scatter
1 - Wild
2 - Burning wheel with start flag
3 - Red man with truck
4 - Yellow man with car
5 - Pink lady with car
6 - Dices
7 - Hamburger
8 - French fries
9 - bottle and cup
10 - bottle and cup
11 - Pie slice
12 - Cup of coffe
Reel 1: 3,10,2,0,12,5,9,7,8,6,11,4
Reel 2: 5,8,3,2,11,12,1,4,7,9,6,0
Reel 3: 2,9,4,8,6,0,1,7,5,11,3,12
Reel 4: 4,7,3,0,5,2,12,6,9,1,11,8
Reel 5: 4,5,11,2,8,3,9,7,12,0,10,6

It's also interesting that in case of slots like that, it is possible to calculate the payout exactly, not just via simulations, because the number of possible combinations are not so high (248832 in case of 5 reel drive).

I made some quick calculations, and the results really amazed me if I'm correct and the above reels are correct:
Whatever the return percentage of this slot is, 78.125%point comes from scatter wins. Am I correct in the below calculations?
P(Exactly 3 scatters)=BINOMDIST(3;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.087890625
P(Exactly 4 scatters)=BINOMDIST(4;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.014648438
P(Exactly 5 scatters)=BINOMDIST(5;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.000976563

Win (3 scatters) = 0.087890625 * 5 = 0.439453125
Win (4 scatters) = 0.014648438 * 20 = 0.29296875
Win (5 scatters) = 0.000976563 * 50 = 0.048828125
Sum = 0.78125

So if we assume that the overall payback is 95%, than 82.2% of the total payback would come from scatter wins...

 

[Zoozie]

I worked a few hours on the new slot reels tonight.

And I have implemented HOHOHO. The results are:

Seconds running:133.3
Number of iterations:35741888
Total cost:35741888
Total added wins:22231780
Number of feature starts:380754
Base payback(no free spins):0.622009111550011
Probability for getting a feature each spin:0.010652878773499599~1/94
Average number of spins each feature with retriggers (calculated):25.414819911310232
Average number of win each feature(in bet size):31.616499106475217
Total payout (excact!)= 0.95881584377375~ 95.88%

Quite impressive the payout actually is in the 95-96% range, which makes me believe we got it

I have a small problem with tomb raider. The slot simulator multiplies all wins
during the free spins and ALSO those from the bonus picking game. It will take some time before I can fix this unfortunately. I will work on more slots tomorrow, those that I know will work on the slot analyzer and then I will upload the new slot analyzer applet.

Zoozie

 

[SlotsWizard]

In the case of the 5-reel 5-liners such as Winning Wizards, I am 99% certain that the reels are weighted like 3-reel slots are.

Some time in the past I used the imperfect method of analyzing the reels, and came to the conclusion that every symbol appears only once on each reel.

Therefore it would make sense that the reel stops are weighted.

From 100 spins (I know, small sample, hardly enough, blah blah blah) I obtained the following results (the symbol in each list refers to the symbol appearing on the top line):

Old Attachment (Invalid)

The reason I decided to log this (about 6 months ago) was because when I was playing I kept noticing the King appearing on the bottom of the first reel very frequently (that's the stop where the Ten appears on the top of the first reel which happened on 16% of the spins in the above session).

If the reels weren't weighted, each symbol and lineup would have an equal chance of showing up because each symbol appears only once on each reel. Obviously it wouldn't make sense that five 10s has the same probability as five Wizards, so weighting is likely occurring. Plus this is one of the oldest MG video slots so it wouldn't surprise me if it was weighted like the 3-reelers since most of the slots back then were 3-reelers.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Spectacular
0 - Spectacular
1 - EMPTY
2 - 7
3 - EMPTY
4 - bar x 3
5 - bar x 3
6 - EMPTY
7 - bar x 2
8 - EMPTY
9 - bar x 1
10 - EMPTY
11 - Admit one ticket
12 - EMPTY
13 - SPIN
Reel 1: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,5,14
Reel 2: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,5,14
Reel 3: 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14

What's symbol 14?

 

[Zoozie]

Plus this is one of the oldest MG video slots so it wouldn't surprise me if it was weighted like the 3-reelers since most of the slots back then were 3-reelers.

We can probably see that when I have entered it into the analyzer. It the payout% is unrealistic, I trust you.

Btw. it seems all 5-reel slots at Boss software also are not uniformly random.
Even the 3-reel slots seems not even be be standard weigthed. Here you get
2 jackpot symbols way to often and amoung all 3 reels. So the payout is
not determined from the reels, but by other means. And then the reels just
show a win at the given amount. I am 95% certain this is the way it is, which is a shame since it is deceptive and ruins the whole idea of slots with reels.

 

[SlotsWizard]

We can probably see that when I have entered it into the analyzer. It the payout% is unrealistic, I trust you.

Don't forget that this game pays left-to-right and right-to-left... I think you can just double the payout for all wins except five of a kind? It might be more complicated than that.

Winning Wizards, Oriental Fortune and "classic" Crazy Chameleons are all the same game.

 

[steinhaug]

What's symbol 14?

SPECTACULAR SLOT REELS ARE VOID!

After doing some more studying on this there is something strange going on on theese reels. Seems that there are different layouts for each reel with the same symbols. One needs to map different symbols for each reel, therefore I void this setup. If there is an admin in here please delete the spectacular mapping from my previous post.

 

[BubbleG]

Weighted reels

This is fascinting stuff... It would be great to do a perfect analyisis of some of the high varince slots like isis, slots could be catagorized using a whole new scale.

Suicidal Variance
Super Mega variance
Super Variance
High
Medium
Low
Smooth

I woulo also be interested to know the probabilities of hitting a 100,000 coin, 200,000 coin, 300,000+ coin win on the high variance slots like isis.

Some thoughts on weigted reels. Firstly I grew up in the arcades of the
UK and know all about games with a predetermined result. I just dont get the same feel from the 3 and 5 reel slots although I do totally agree the reels can appear weigthed.

Lets say we assume the online versions use similar or the same mechanics to the real life slots to determine their out come (based on the fact a real life slot is essentially a computer in a box using hardware reels to display the outcome instead of an image on screen) and lets also take another giant leap and assume the slots are genuinely random. If a reel only has 30 symbols there are not that many total outcomes compared to a reel with 100's even 1000's of symbols, of course in a casino size is paramount and a slot with 6000+ symbols on the reel would not fit in very well. So in reality instead of the rng picking 1 in 30 it could actually be picking one in x number of hundreds/thousands with each symbol having a propotional fixed number of values to its reel.

Blanks 2500
cheries 1500
single bar 1000
double bar 750
Triple bar 225
wild 25

So although the pick is random the reel appears weighted. Using them numbers the odds of hitting a wild on our hypothetical slot would be 240/1. This would also explain how it is possible to so often line up the JP on the above line, below line and every other line except the one that counts

Would be interested to see what the simulator says running reels using this setup varying the number of true symbols and fixed values of the reel symbols to see if it cn come out with figures comparable to published paytables and payout %

 

[Zoozie]

Don't forget that this game pays left-to-right and right-to-left... I think you can just double the payout for all wins except five of a kind? It might be more complicated than that.

Winning Wizards, Oriental Fortune and "classic" Crazy Chameleons are all the same game.

This is a show stopper for the time being. Double the payout as you saw will work if the reels are symmetric.So maybe I have to implement right-to-left symbols also. (this is not that hard though)

Zoozie

 

[KasinoKing]

I woulo also be interested to know the probabilities of hitting a 100,000 coin, 200,000 coin, 300,000+ coin win on the high variance slots like isis.

This is very easy to work out once you have the reel layout data.
That's why this thread is so brilliant!

Suppose you have a 5 reel slot with 30 symbols on each.
Each reel has just 1 jackpot symbol.
The chance of getting all the jackpot symbols on a winline is:-

30 x 30 x 30 x 30 x 30 = 1 in 24,300,000

Then simply divide by the number of winlines;
for example if it was a 15-line slot the odds would be 1 in 1,620,000

If one of the reels had 2 jackpot symbols, just divide the answer by 2; 1 in 810,000.

When you start to comprehend the size of these figures you'll understand why there are so very few jackpot shots in the Winner Screenshots thread!

You need to be very, very, very, very lucky!

 

[Simmo!]

Would anyone object if I logged the reel data on Slotjunkies for reference? If you don't, PM me any reel layouts and I'll add them as they arrive. If you do, then don't

 

[gerilege]

It's also interesting that in case of slots like that, it is possible to calculate the payout exactly, not just via simulations, because the number of possible combinations are not so high (248832 in case of 5 reel drive).

I made some quick calculations, and the results really amazed me if I'm correct and the above reels are correct:
Whatever the return percentage of this slot is, 78.125%point comes from scatter wins. Am I correct in the below calculations?
P(Exactly 3 scatters)=BINOMDIST(3;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.087890625
P(Exactly 4 scatters)=BINOMDIST(4;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.014648438
P(Exactly 5 scatters)=BINOMDIST(5;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.000976563

Win (3 scatters) = 0.087890625 * 5 = 0.439453125
Win (4 scatters) = 0.014648438 * 20 = 0.29296875
Win (5 scatters) = 0.000976563 * 50 = 0.048828125
Sum = 0.78125

So if we assume that the overall payback is 95%, than 82.2% of the total payback would come from scatter wins...

I worked on this issue, and although I have not completely checked my program written for counting all possible combinations (not just for scattersm but also for line wins), I'm quite condifent that either the posted reel sequence is incorrect or the reels are weighted in case of 5 reel drive. Otherwise the payout would be too high.

 

[Zoozie]

Small update for you folks.

The reels we once cracked for Thunderstruck and Tally Ho 1 year ago were correct. The reels Kimss provided are identical. (Actually there 2 reel fragments was switched on reel 5, but this does not matter for payout and both choices was possible from the reel puzzles).

Also we now know that Thunderstruck is the same that it was 1 year ago!

I will work a little more on it and upload it later. HO HO HO is will be included and is a little interesting because it is a very low variance slot.

Zoozie

 

[Zoozie]

It's also interesting that in case of slots like that, it is possible to calculate the payout exactly, not just via simulations, because the number of possible combinations are not so high (248832 in case of 5 reel drive).

I made some quick calculations, and the results really amazed me if I'm correct and the above reels are correct:
Whatever the return percentage of this slot is, 78.125%point comes from scatter wins. Am I correct in the below calculations?
P(Exactly 3 scatters)=BINOMDIST(3;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.087890625
P(Exactly 4 scatters)=BINOMDIST(4;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.014648438
P(Exactly 5 scatters)=BINOMDIST(5;5;1/4;FALSE)=0.000976563

Win (3 scatters) = 0.087890625 * 5 = 0.439453125
Win (4 scatters) = 0.014648438 * 20 = 0.29296875
Win (5 scatters) = 0.000976563 * 50 = 0.048828125
Sum = 0.78125

So if we assume that the overall payback is 95%, than 82.2% of the total payback would come from scatter wins...

Right on! Payout is 248% so I it is obvious this slot can not have uniform reels probabilites. Ie. reels are weighted OR wins are determined by other means and the reels are just showing positions matching the win amount.

This is a little shocking news for meand I am disappointed MG did this short-cut which is against the slot-ethics for video slots.
I have never played these simple 5 reels slots, but this weighting should be obvious. Ie. the middle reel has 1 wild and total 12 positions. So it should be visible 3/12=1/4 of the spins on each of these reels, and I do not think it is so. Also Kimss reported to me that he had a hard time hitting some positions on the reels, and maybe it was on these slots.



Analyzing 5 Reel Drive , iterating through all combinations to calculate payout%.
************** Analysis complete *************
Seconds running:1.1
Number of iterations:248832
Total cost:248832
Total added wins:641848
Number of feature starts:0
Base payback(no free spins):2.579443158436214
Probability for getting a feature each spin:0.0
Average number of spins each feature with retriggers (calculated):0.0
Average number of win each feature(in bet size):0.0
Total payout (excact!)= 2.579443158436214~ 257.94%

 

[gerilege]

Right on! Payout is 248% so I it is obvious this slot can not have uniform reels probabilites. Ie. reels are weighted OR wins are determined by other means and the reels are just showing positions matching the win amount.

This is a little shocking news for meand I am disappointed MG did this short-cut which is against the slot-ethics for video slots.
I have never played these simple 5 reels slots, but this weighting should be obvious. Ie. the middle reel has 1 wild and total 12 positions. So it should be visible 3/12=1/4 of the spins on each of these reels, and I do not think it is so. Also Kimss reported to me that he had a hard time hitting some positions on the reels, and maybe it was on these slots.



Analyzing 5 Reel Drive , iterating through all combinations to calculate payout%.
************** Analysis complete *************
Seconds running:1.1
Number of iterations:248832
Total cost:248832
Total added wins:641848
Number of feature starts:0
Base payback(no free spins):2.579443158436214
Probability for getting a feature each spin:0.0
Average number of spins each feature with retriggers (calculated):0.0
Average number of win each feature(in bet size):0.0
Total payout (excact!)= 2.579443158436214~ 257.94%

Yes, I was almost sure yesterday when I checked the scatter wins that something was odd. Today I did not include the wilds when calculating the line wins (I also had to do the normal work for which I get paid ), and it was already over 100% point, plus the 78% from the scatter wins, already 178% at least, crazy. Tomorow I will add the wilds, so we can double-check our results, but 258% seems quite reasonable for me.

Needless to say, I'm also very disappointed, because MG was consistently stating that their video slots did not use such tactics.

 

[winbig]

It would be very interesting to see if they are weighted the same for free play.

 

[Slotster!]

It would be very interesting to see if they are weighted the same for free play.

This WOULD be interesting!

I'm personally entirely convinced that MG are identical in free as they are in real mode, but a bit of analysis would be good!

P.S - *SUPERB* thread, a real gem. Thank you!

 

[winbig]

This WOULD be interesting!

I'm personally entirely convinced that MG are identical in free as they are in real mode, but a bit of analysis would be good!

P.S - *SUPERB* thread, a real gem. Thank you!

As many bonus rounds/free spins that pop up so freely in free play, I think they do throw a few extra scatters in when you're playing for free. Not many, but just enough to make a difference.

An interesting argument to this would be that these extra scatters would block more wins, so it still seems as if the slot plays just like it does for real money.

Just like Hitman last night. I hit 4 bonus rounds in about a half an hour....Can you say the same for real play? I doubt it

I agree, great thread!

 

[Slotster!]

Just like Hitman last night. I hit 4 bonus rounds in about a half an hour....Can you say the same for real play? I doubt it

Sometimes, yes! There's even a bug when you hit it twice in the free spins... I'd love to see some work on free versus real - I'm totally convinced MG is fair. Now as for the rest of them...

 

[brianzz]

Just FYI, the B/M casino game makers run the programs for 10,000,000 games to attain the correct average long term return of a certain set of virtual reel strips. There is a bit of varience to the claimed returns in the short term, see example below.

Simplified example of a 3 reel game, Double Diamond

90% CONFIDENCE VALUES VOLATILITY INDEX = 10.476
HANDLE PULLS LOWER% UPPER%

1000. 59.46 125.71
10000. 82.11 103.06
100000. 89.27 95.90
1000000. 91.54 93.63
10000000. 92.25 92.92

That would probably help explain some of the outrageous returns you get when running a simulation.

 

[Zoozie]

Just FYI, the B/M casino game makers run the programs for 10,000,000 games to attain the correct average long term return of a certain set of virtual reel strips. There is a bit of variance to the claimed returns in the short term, see example below.

Simplified example of a 3 reel game, Double Diamond

90% CONFIDENCE VALUES VOLATILITY INDEX = 10.476
HANDLE PULLS LOWER% UPPER%

1000. 59.46 125.71
10000. 82.11 103.06
100000. 89.27 95.90
1000000. 91.54 93.63
10000000. 92.25 92.92

That would probably help explain some of the outrageous returns you get when running a simulation.

Yes, but I did not run an simulation. I analyzed it finding the exact payout (which can be expressed as a fraction).

The analyzer can also simulate and here is the result after 1M and 10M:

Iterations:1000000
Payout%:2.5461415555555558~ 254.61%
---------------------------------------------------
Iterations:10000000
Payout%:2.579288688888889~ 257.93%
---------------------------------------------------

 

[Zoozie]

It is also weird that 5-reel drive has two identical symbols but with different reel-identification numbers.

Kimms, you have any idea why and you are of course sure you did it correct?

 

[gerilege]

It is also weird that 5-reel drive has two identical symbols but with different reel-identification numbers.

I think they solved the "wilds only on reel 2-4" problem this way. For some reason they wanted the reels to be equal length, so they replaced the wilds with an identical symbol on reel 1 and 5.

 

[Zoozie]

I think they solved the "wilds only on reel 2-4" problem this way. For some reason they wanted the reels to be equal length, so they replaced the wilds with an identical symbol on reel 1 and 5.

In the newer 5-reel slots same symbol can be multiple times on each reel and they could just have done the same here. Ie. one symbol count be twice on reel 1 and reel 5. But since there are only 1 instance of each symbol (by ID) on each reel your explanation is very good.

MG probably had no expertise (or even just slightly skilled math. people) at that time when the first 5-reel slots was developed. And they probably used weighted reels which they already had done in the 3-reel slots and they just generalized it. Later they realized they had screwed up by misunderstanding the whole idea behind a 5-reel slot. And soon they became the leading casino software provider and got it right. Designing/balancing the slots is a little hard and MG really did a good job. (Thunderstruck clones etc.). When Rival software saw the light a little over 1 year ago, they had massive problems balancing the slots and changed it regulary. (And I still believe Rival should increase feature payout and lower base-payout to compensate it)


I still believe that Boss software still 'cheats' this way with
their 5-reel slots and I am also not sure RTG does it correct. I am pretty sure Crypto got it right, and it would be interesting if someone can crack the reels on one of their standard slots. (freespin slots, no wierd mechanics - maybe the new Thor slot?)

Zoozie

 

[gerilege]

From another perspective

I forgot to post yesterday that I also have a straight mathematical proof that those 5 reel slots should be weighted with the given reelset, without any simulation or counting all possible combinations. It is enough to show that the payout would be significantly over 100% without weighted reels.

I have previously shown that the scatter payout would be 78.125%.

Let's add the five top symbols payouts, which is 10000 (1111.11 x total bet) for five "Wheels".

The total number of possible reel combinations is 248832. How many combinations would give five "Wheels"? We have:
- 9 combinations without a wild.
- 9 combinations with 3 wilds on reel 2-4.
- 3 times 9 combinations with 2 wilds on reel 2-4. (i.e. wilds are on reel 23, 24, 34)
- 3 times 9 combinations with 1 wild on reel 2-4. (i.e. wild is on reel 2, 3, 4)
That is a total of 72 combinations.
Now the chance for five "Wheels" would be 72/248832. And the payout is 10000/9 x total bet. So the return percentage for five "Wheels" is:

(72/248832)*(10000/9)=(8*10000)/248832 ~= 0,3215 = 32,15%.

So ony the five wilds + scatter wins would sum up to 110,275%.

 

[Zoozie]

3 new slots in the slot-analyzer

I have added Loaded, HO HO HO and Five Reel Drive to the slot-analyzer.
Five Reel Drive does not really work though, because the reels are weighted. But then we at least know that, so I will keep it there.

Also for the first time I saw the "Loaded" payout% and it was good news.
It has highest payout we have found for a MG slot yet. Also this is a much newer slot that those we already had analyzed (Thunderstruck and HO HO HO) indicating
that MG has not lowered payout on the newer slots.




************** Analysis complete *************
Seconds running:158.0
Number of iterations:46652760
Total cost:46652760
Total added wins:31171484
Number of feature starts:428760
Base payback(no free spins):0.6681594829544919
Probability for getting a feature each spin:0.00919045304072042~1/109
Average number of spins each feature with retriggers (calculated):24.0
Average number of win each feature(in bet size):32.071655181815615
Total payout (excact!)= 0.962912523841146~ 96.29%


I added the link to the slot-analyzer in my signature.

 

[steinhaug]

I am pretty sure Crypto got it right, and it would be interesting if someone can crack the reels on one of their standard slots. (freespin slots, no wierd mechanics - maybe the new Thor slot?)

Any TCP packet experts in here? I believe all reels in all games in all casinoes can be cracked easily - since I believe most likely same approach is used when feeding the data to the standalone installation. Atleast MG works this way, I do not think the flash and standalone system differs that much when you get down to the bone of it. As mentioned before, sniffing the packets getting to your machine on a spin - theese packets contains reelposition for each spin, what you won and such. You cant manipulate anything with the data - so I don't look at this as breaking an entry, however one can use this pin point data to accurately place the symbols on the reels. If all were correct you need like 50 spins and you have cracked the reels, however, as mentioned before some positions on the reels going this method is darn hard to get for some (???weighted???) reason...

PM me if anyone has experience with TCP packets.

 

[steinhaug]

It is also weird that 5-reel drive has two identical symbols but with different reel-identification numbers.

Kimms, you have any idea why and you are of course sure you did it correct?

Yes i'm very sure, and I can't be wrong either since I'm using MGs own mapping of the symbols,

Seems to me they once made a slot, and tweaked it for a new slot wothout reprogramming the whole slot. They had a symbol to much, and there you go? As a programmer that would by my instant assumption. All programmers are lazy,

 

[Zoozie]

So Isis and Dolphin tale are not yet in the flash casino?

The 5-reel slots are all weighted as can be seen easy from the reel like
Five Reel Drive. The 9-lines are clones of Tomb Raider or Thunderstruck.
So I will not implement Thunderstruck,SunQuest,Spring Break, Ladies Night etc.. since they are the same, but I will mention it in the slot-analyzer.
And then there is a crazy amount of Tomb Raider clones, and I have already done Tomb Raider, but it is not working before I implement the "bonus not multiplied during freespins".

It would be VERY interesting to get the MG progressives also. Are the in the flash casino? Then we can also see how high the jackpot has to be before payout exceeds 100%

Then there is also the standard slots with the new reel layout like
Flying Circus and Witch Doctor. They are not in the flash yet also?

Also the WagerWorks Cleopatra would be interested if anyone want to crack it the old fashioned way. But I think you can see the reels quite easy on cleopatra.

Zoozie

 

[steinhaug]

...progressives...

Sweet, I never saw this option in the flash casino... I'll get creacking right away,

 

[steinhaug]

Doh! I have no real accounts left, and I am not thinking of getting any more either. This means it's kinda impossible for me to crack theese reals since I can't get any spins on them. I did two however, but I miss some symbols since I must map from the startup layout. Maby some of you can finnish the job.

Major Millions:
0 - Scatter
1 - Major Millions progressive
2 - Officer saying hey
3 - ???
4 - Airplane
5 - Tank
6 - Top Secret
7 - Medals
8 - Hat
9 - Ammunition box
10 - Googles

Reel 1: 1,9,5,10,7,3,10,8,4,10,2,8,10,6,0,10,7,5,0,10,9,4,10,6
Reel 2: 1,6,9,3,10,4,8,2,9,5,8,3,7,6,10,0,8,7,4,8,5
Reel 3: 1,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6,2,5,6,3,5,6,9,0,10,7,5,6,8,7,9,0,10,8
Reel 4: 1,9,5,8,3,10,6,8,3,10,5,8,2,9,6,8,4,7,9,0,8,7,4,9,8
Reel 5: 1,10,5,8,3,9,4,7,3,5,10,0,7,4,6,8,2,7,9,0,7,6

Mega Moolah:
0 - Leon
1 - Elephant
2 - Moskus/bison
3 - Giraffe
4 - ???
5 - ..Deer, tilted head with horns
6 - A
7 - K
8 - Q
9 - J
10 - 10
11 - Feature, Moolan

Reel 1: 0,10,9,6,5,7,8,3,10,7,4,8,9,5,10,2,9,6,5,7,8,3,10,7,4,8,9,1,10,11,6,9
Reel 2: 0,7,10,9,5,8,7,4,6,8,3,9,10,11,2,6,10,9,5,8,7,4,6,8,3,9,10,1,5,8,7,9
Reel 3: 0,9,4,10,6,2,7,8,4,9,7,1,8,10,5,7,8,3,6,2,11,10,5,6,2,7,8,4,9,7,1,8,10,5,7,8,3,6,1,9,3
Reel 4: 0,8,9,10,11,8,1,7,5,6,10,3,9,8,4,7,6,2,9,3,7,5,8,9,10,11,8,1,7,5,6,10,3,9,8,4,7,2,6,9,2,7,4,10
Reel 5: 0,6,3,9,10,5,8,9,1,7,8,2,10,7,8,4,7,9,5,6,11,3,6,9,3,10,5,8,9,1,7,8,2,10,7,8,4,7,9,2,10,4
(Reels are served twice, but they are identical - the other slots doesnt do this?)
Reel 1: 0,10,9,6,5,7,8,3,10,7,4,8,9,5,10,2,9,6,5,7,8,3,10,7,4,8,9,1,10,11,6,9
Reel 2: 0,7,10,9,5,8,7,4,6,8,3,9,10,11,2,6,10,9,5,8,7,4,6,8,3,9,10,1,5,8,7,9
Reel 3: 0,9,4,10,6,2,7,8,4,9,7,1,8,10,5,7,8,3,6,2,11,10,5,6,2,7,8,4,9,7,1,8,10,5,7,8,3,6,1,9,3
Reel 4: 0,8,9,10,11,8,1,7,5,6,10,3,9,8,4,7,6,2,9,3,7,5,8,9,10,11,8,1,7,5,6,10,3,9,8,4,7,2,6,9,2,7,4,10
Reel 5: 0,6,3,9,10,5,8,9,1,7,8,2,10,7,8,4,7,9,5,6,11,3,6,9,3,10,5,8,9,1,7,8,2,10,7,8,4,7,9,2,10,4

Missing symbols would be:
Mega moolah, reel 1 - What is the symbol after the K? This would be symbol 4.

Missing Major millions:
What is the symbol after the medals on reel1? This is symbol 3

 

[steinhaug]

OK, I did the last progressives, but I need a little help from you people to finnish of the reels. It's very easy work for you, Read comments in red.

Fruit fiesta:
0 - Fruit Fiesta
1 - ???
2 - Bar x3
3 - Ananas
4 - Water melon
5 - Orange
6 - Lime
7 - Plum
8 - Apple
9 - Bell
10 - Scatter

Reel 1: 0,9,5,7,3,5,7,1,0,8,4,6,7,2,6,7,10,6,8
Reel 2: 0,6,3,2,9,6,1,5,7,2,6,3,5,7,0,9,6,4,10,7,4,2,8,3,7
Reel 3: 0,9,6,3,8,2,4,8,3,5,7,9,5,7,10,4,7,1,4,6,8,4,7
Reel 4: 0,9,5,2,8,3,5,6,7,4,10,5,8,1,9,5,6,9,8
Reel 5: 0,5,8,10,5,6,2,7,9,3,6,4,7,9,6,1,4,10,9,3

Symbol 1: Whats the symbol after the plum on reel 1.

King Kashalot
0 - King
1 - ???
2 - Yellow knight
3 - Lady with red hair
4 - Steak/meat
5 - Chicken
6 - Fish and schrimps
7 - Pudding
8 - Plate of fruits
9 - Dragon
10 - ???

Reel 1: 0,5,8,7,6,8,7,4,8,7,1,6,8,7,3,5,7,6,10,5,7,8,4,6,8,2,5,6,8
Reel 2: 0,8,6,3,8,9,6,7,5,4,6,9,7,8,6,1,8,7,10,8,7,6,5,7,2,8,9,5
Reel 3: 0,6,7,5,3,8,5,7,4,9,8,6,1,5,10,8,6,7,9,8,2,7,8,6,7,8
Reel 4: 0,5,6,4,2,6,8,3,7,10,6,2,8,6,7,4,8,1,9,3,7,6,2,8,4
Reel 5: 0,8,2,6,4,3,10,1,4,7,3,6,4,5,2

Missing symbols:
1: Symbol after "pudding" on reel 1.
10: Symbol after "fish and schrimps" on reel 1.

Cash Splash:
0 - Scatter
1 - Cash Splash
2 - ???
3 - Grey 7
4 - Bar x1
5 - Cherries
6 - A
7 - K
8 - Q
9 - J
10 - 10

Reel 1: 1,10,6,8,4,6,8,2,9,5,7,8,3,7,8,0,7,9
Reel 2: 1,7,4,3,10,7,2,6,8,3,7,4,6,8,1,10,7,5,0,8,5,3,9,4,8
Reel 3: 1,10,7,4,9,3,5,9,4,6,8,1,10,6,8,0,5,8,2,5,7,9,5,8
Reel 4: 1,10,6,3,9,4,6,7,1,8,5,0,6,9,2,10,6,7,10,9
Reel 5: 1,6,9,0,6,7,3,8,10,4,7,1,5,8,10,7,2,5,9,10,4

Missing symbol:
2: Symbol after Q on reel 1.

Lotsaloot:
0 - Lotsaloot (text)
1 - Bucket of gold
2 - 7
3 - Bar x1
4 - firklver
5 - A
6 - K
7 - ???
8 - J
9 - 10

Reel 1: 0,6,8,3,7,6,5,7,1,8,9,6,4,7,2,9,5,7
Reel 2: 0,9,8,3,4,5,1,9,6,2,5,7,3,8,0,9,7,3,5,6,2,4,5,7,6,2,7,8,6
Reel 3: 0,9,7,4,5,1,8,4,3,7,8,0,9,6,3,4,7,2,5,7,4,8,6
Reel 4: 0,4,9,6,2,5,8,7,0,5,6,3,9,8,1,9,8,5,7
Reel 5: 0,4,6,3,9,8,2,5,3,9,7,0,4,6,8,1,9,5,7,6

Missing symbol:
7 - alternative a: Reel3, in between 10 and LotsaLoot.
7 - alternative b: Reel3, in between A and K

- - - -

Friom what I see there are no more slots to be mapped from the flash casino now, unless they release new games.

 

[gerilege]

R
Analyzing 5 Reel Drive , iterating through all combinations to calculate payout%.
************** Analysis complete *************
Seconds running:1.1
Number of iterations:248832
Total cost:248832
Total added wins:641848
Number of feature starts:0
Base payback(no free spins):2.579443158436214
Probability for getting a feature each spin:0.0
Average number of spins each feature with retriggers (calculated):0.0
Average number of win each feature(in bet size):0.0
Total payout (excact!)= 2.579443158436214~ 257.94%

I have also written an analyzer for the 5 reel drive, and I got slightly different results (275% payout) than you. I ported my c++ program to JAVA for your convinience, and attached it to this post. Could you please have a look whether I made something wrong? It would be very nice if my program could come to the same payout%.

After that I plan to collect some spin data in free mode (1-2000 spins), so I would have some data available about the possible reel weighting. Then I would extrapolate this weighting (use it as input for the simulation), so we could have an approximate payout percentage simulated with the weighted reels.

What do you think?

 

[Zoozie]

I have also written an analyzer for the 5 reel drive, and I got slightly different results (275% payout) than you. I ported my c++ program to JAVA for your convinience, and attached it to this post. Could you please have a look whether I made something wrong? It would be very nice if my program could come to the same payout%.

What do you think?

Nice job. Still we have a little difference that should be found.

Maybe you can use the following log info from my program:
Number of iterations:248832
Total cost:248832
Total added wins:641848

You have to add all the wins also I think, and what did you get?

 

[Zoozie]

I found it.

One of us got the paytable for 4 of the top-pay-symbol wrong. I have it at 500 in my simulator while you have it at 1000.

And if I change mine to 1000 I get:
payout=275,63%, just like you did!

I am at work and I can not check the paytable.

 

[steinhaug]

After that I plan to collect some spin data in free mode (1-2000 spins), so I would have some data available about the possible reel weighting. Then I would extrapolate this weighting (use it as input for the simulation), so we could have an approximate payout percentage simulated with the weighted reels.

I am doing this now, but on the feature slots. I have a feeling theese are weighted aswell since I know certain reel positions just never happend. I will be collecting a few 1000 spins on several machines, and maby some of you people can program a little piece of software to calculate between the reel positions to see if its random or not? This would be a job for maby you and zoozie?

I'll get back to you later with the data from this, you will get the data like this for each spin:
0,5,10,4,5
10,12,0,0,4
20,18,4,2,1
...

Theese are the reelpositions for each spin, I would think that if reel 1 has 33 symbols, that means reelposition may stop from 0-31. In a 1000 spins we should expect pretty much all positions to spread equaly?

Anyways, You'll here from me a little later when I have accumulated and formatted the data for you. If you have any special games you would like data from (within the flash casino that is) please tell me and I'll start collecting some thousand spins for you.

Great work!