Gambling Stigma

[RichyJ75]

Ok, bit of a weird question, but does anyone else here feel uncomfortable talking about online gambling with their family or friends? It's fine in this kind of environment, but after a few wins not that long ago and explaining to my friends and family where the money has come from to buy a new car, paying off debts (incurred by buying a static caravan holiday home last year after a few other wins), laying the front garden with artificial grass, new decking on the caravan, etc, I was feeling uncomfortable talking about it even though I was in profit.

It seemed that the automatic response was to focus on how much had been lost/wagered and that it was a subject not generally spoken about socially, much the same as if you had just seen a good porno film - you simply don't mention it to anyone! I also took the decision to take a break from online casino use so went through GamStop, but again the instant response by the majority of people was that any kind of SE means you have a serious gambling problem. Not the case, I simply wanted to walk away with the winnings and take a break without receiving all the spam e-mails or temptation to return. Self exclusion, take a break, deposit limits etc are tools for responsible gambling, so surely this is being responsible and doesn't warrant having a finger being pointed at you saying you have a problem? I know, someone without an addiction can walk away whenever, but if you enjoy what you play, then surely you want to return to that enjoyment?

So, does anyone here treat it as a dirty little secret and only talk about gambling here?

Also quite surprisingly, my wife has given her backing for me playing the £500 fruit machines down the club house at the holiday site. However, last week in the school holidays I did manage to pay off £1,050 against next year's site fees from fruit machine wins, so I think that persuaded her even though she doesn't like gambling. I think it also put her mind at rest knowing that I can walk away with a nice win and also when it appears the machines won't pay/play nicely!

Mind you, typing this out has got me thinking. Should it be socially acceptable to talk about online gambling and should it be accepted by everyone? One side is that now I have confessed to family that I did gamble online, I would be more cautious about how much I play in future.

 

[dionysus]

nah, I talk about it openly - never thought it was some dirty little secret

 

[RichyJ75]

nah, I talk about it openly - never thought it was some dirty little secret

Must be my friends and family then! I think my wife and family automatically think gambling equals losing all the time and friends just see it as being anti social, so I just kept quiet about it. Work colleagues only knew about big wins when I turned up with cakes!

 

[dionysus]

well, i come from a family of gamblers so to them, it seemed rather par lol and my friends often see my wins on FB so are more intrigued than anything.
Around here, there's pretty much a landbased in every reasonably sized city so gambling is fairly commonplace

 

[goatwack]

I believe everything possible on the subject has been covered more than adequately in this killer thread already

Laugh it up, Fuzzball

 

[LadyJelena]

Gambling was always exciting for me and kinda sexy Always felt like a little rebel when I play (although not so often) who's in some supercool underworld
My answer is no The only issue is that most of the people around me are not so familiar with it - the furthest they go (male) is local bookie to play tickets on some football/basketball matches. Bigger issue I have when I need to explain my job - first thought is usually that my duty is to make people gamble

 

[goatwack]

My partner knows about 'the gambling' so that's good. Only tell her when winning, which is bittersweet, because she might want some of that

Mother: You must be kidding, as if I'd be that stupid lol

Friends: Easy to disclose this secret to, mainly because I have none. But the imaginary ones (Tom & Tilly) are fine with it, by and large

 

[TheAddict]

Can take too long for the realization to hit with some people and even if it eventually smacks them in the face, its not worth it... If say a person is winning. Im talking gambling generally though.

For many, there is always an answer to your answer.

Poker.
Hey babe are you winning?
Me. Yes.
Do you win overall?
Me. Yes.
How much did you have to spend?
Me. Look, here is 95 pages of small withdrawal amounts, and here is 2 pages of even smaller deposit amounts.
But how much have you spent?
Me. Those amounts right there, in those 2 pages.
But how much did you Give back? You cant be lucky forever? *walks out*
Me. Dafuq!? She asked. I showed. cant she read whats infront of her? Im going for a beer.

One day walk past arcade with same (ex)gf who doesnt like gambling. Spanish, so doesnt know about the uk AWP machines.
Me. *points at arcade* when walking past it. " i used to make decent money in there"
Her. *blank long stare into eyeballs, with no response* face is so utterly motionless, suggesting its trying to hide the disgust and auto desire to criticise her sexy bf over this sin.
Action, or lack of, definately spoke louder than any words could.

(Did stop gambling for a few years when with her tbh)

Father, . You still playing fruit machines?
Me. Yeh.
Do you win much?
Me. Yeah.. not shit loads but yeah i make overall, for the past 15 years or so.
Father. I bet You'll end up putting it all back eventually.

Girl at college.
Why are you looking at a poker site?
Me. Im trying to get past the college security crap so i can play some, this lesson is boring as shit.
Girl. Do you win?
Me. Yep. For years now.
Girl. But poker is a game of cards. It is luck, you cant make money/be lucky forever..
Me. Its not all luck, youd be suprised. kinda lived off it for a few years tbh.
Girl. How is it not luck? How can you live off it? You are playing with cards. Can you see what your opponent has? No!
Me. Its quite a complex game, hard to explain, takes a long time to learn. But its not all luck.
Girl. Sure. So wheres all the money you made now then?
Me. Rage.

I dont mention online gambling like slots, only to those few friends or family who already know ive gambled since i was a kid, and know ive done ok overall and that it is not in total control of my life nor ruining my finances. And even then i didnt mention it for quite a while.
Too many people are unfortunately too quick to judge imo. And tbf, ive seen some roulette players who live for nothing but the wheel, and i was guilty while around them of the odd cringe, while also having pity and i suppose judging them for something i didnt like.


In short. Avoid such conversations at all times when absolutely possible. Weigh up the odds like a gambler; there is likely *nothing of actual worth to gain, **but a quite a high chance there is something to lose. None of us like losing

*unless you are married and honesty is a part of maintaining that relationship.
**especially if you are married and your other half is disgusted by all forms of gambling.

 

[Takkaone]

Classic answer - it depends... ;-)

Few examples on how persons around me and their view on gamlbing differs:

- My mom... Gambling is evil / the bank always wins... Thats her take on gambling since like 30 years ago, when the sunday father-son-biketour only was an "excuse" for my dad and me to go somewhere, him drinking his beer and putting a few 5ers (Deutsche Mark - lol) into the slot to keep me occupied while i was sipping my coke (which was evil for a child, too - obv).... Oh, how much i enjoy thinking of those sundays - and my dad....

- My brother... Me: "Hey, what about me inviting you and your girlfriend for a nice dinner or something this weekend? Just won 5k on the slots, gotta share the loot!" His answer: "But how much did you lose?" Me:"Lose? I won 5k...." Brother:"Yeah, but how much did you lose?"

- My "Boss" (the guy one tier higher oin the foodchain) when we somehow got to the topic of gambling: "Nope, had my fair share of problems back in the days... And my wife made me swear to quit two things when we got our first child - gambling & the - lets call it - more physical approach at watching football"

-- My coworker who gave me a ride home after late-shift few hours ago (dont know how the topic came up) -> i had to send him a few links when he dropped me off at my place -> casinomeister, neteller, videoslots... that poor guy until now had only one casino-account (bwin) and did sound like he was spending a bunch more there, than his wife knows... LOL

- The financial advisor from my bank - who actually wanted to sell me some shitty investments: "Those kind of transactions there on your account - you know that gambling is illegal & you have to pay taxes on that money, too?" Me:"Have to think about those offers you had there - probably will give you a call later this week... Oh, and thank you for the coffee..."


Thats the whole range of reactions i did receive when people around me somehow got to know about my gambling-habbit / hobby... Well, there is one more reaction (by far the most common one): "Sounds boring... But hey, whatever floats your boat..."

 

[RichyJ75]

Ha ha ha, loving the replies, cheers guys.

One thing which baffled me recently was that my missus got upset at me for losing £20 in the arcades - errrr, hello, these arcades just helped us pay £1,050 towards next year's site fees! Started the week with £150 cash in wallet, finished the week with £1,050 put aside, £60 still in wallet and we fed/watered ourselves all week with ice creams and arcades chucked in as well. But she still moaned at me for losing £20 on that occasion! Ok, obviously this is why I tend not to talk to her over gambling!!

 

[goatwack]

Ha ha ha, loving the replies, cheers guys.

One thing which baffled me recently was that my missus got upset at me for losing £20 in the arcades - errrr, hello, these arcades just helped us pay £1,050 towards next year's site fees! Started the week with £150 cash in wallet, finished the week with £1,050 put aside, £60 still in wallet and we fed/watered ourselves all week with ice creams and arcades chucked in as well. But she still moaned at me for losing £20 on that occasion! Ok, obviously this is why I tend not to talk to her over gambling!!

There's no accounting for women logic. Just accept it and move on

 

[RichyJ75]

There's no accounting for women logic. Just accept it and move on

The scary thing is, if I had a wife who liked to gamble as well, my natural assumption would be that she would lose our money and take away my play tokens! Yes, I would be a hypocrite and many of the statements/scenarios written above I would have said to her if she gambled!

 

[goatwack]

The scary thing is, if I had a wife who liked to gamble as well, my natural assumption would be that she would lose our money and take away my play tokens! Yes, I would be a hypocrite and many of the statements/scenarios written above I would have said to her if she gambled!

She'd get 80% of the gambling budget by default

Glad that my partner isn't into gambling, slotting, none of it. She keeps me grounded. And skint in so many other ways!

 

[ed skull murphy]

Most non-gamblers think we are foolish, f'k em!

 

[snorky510238]

It’s a birds of a feather thing really. Think about it, if we all had someone we could talk to openly and without criticism and go on and on about near misses, decent wins, slots being rigged ( had to put that in ) and have them still be remotely interested after 2 minutes then we wouldn’t all be posting on here.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I live with my brother so obviously he knows about it, he knows how much I put in and how much I withdraw. He doesn't gamble and he knows I never put in more than I can afford and make sure my part of our living costs is covered. Other than that I have a friend that I occasionally talk to about it, also both wins and losses. My parents are sadly gone but my dad used to gamble a bit on the horses so I doubt he would mind

In the end there's no shame in having a hobby, every hobby costs money and I've had one that was way more expensive: remote control cars... Oh boy, the money I sunk into that was ridiculous compared to gambling and the amount of hours of entertainment aren't that different. Atleast with gambling you can actually get something back sometimes.

 

[nikantw]

So we can't openly discuss it. Ok, keep it a secret then, its not a huge problem.
But then you have government officials take advantage of this and say "gambling is evil, make gamblers pay huge taxes" or/and "winning makes people addicted, lets make sure they don't win".

I am not making this up, there are huge taxes on both losses and wins in many countries. And the second is a public statement of a former head of the GC in my country.

 

[Takkaone]

"gambling is evil, make gamblers pay huge taxes" or/and "winning makes people addicted, lets make sure they don't win"

Sweden has (had?) both these things perfectioned in their gambling-/tax-laws... Playing professional online-poker you would have to pay taxes on every single POT won...

Win pot xx.xx € -> you now owe income-tax on the whole amount of that pot (not even deducting the money you paid into the pot yourself)... And deduction of losses capped at some ridiculously low amount per month / year... Basically meaning that you could play 1million hands of breakeven-poker at lowish / medium stakes -> owing income-tax on several millions of € for all that "profit" you made there...

 

[snorky510238]

Sweden has (had?) both these things perfectioned in their gambling-/tax-laws... Playing professional online-poker you would have to pay taxes on every single POT won...

Win pot xx.xx € -> you now owe income-tax on the whole amount of that pot (not even deducting the money you paid into the pot yourself)... And deduction of losses capped at some ridiculously low amount per month / year... Basically meaning that you could play 1million hands of breakeven-poker at lowish / medium stakes -> owing income-tax on several millions of € for all that "profit" you made there...

That’s unreal I never knew that. Is it done automatically each hand or how do they keep track of it.

 

[Takkaone]

That would obv. only work on paper for some superhonest (idiot) taxpayer really providing the IRS with the required data... Strictly following the letter of law it would be reality though...

Kinda the same "tax-logic" led to the fall of german industrial & former manager of FC Bayern München - Uli Hoeneß... His game was trading in stocks: 20million starting balance -> highpoint roughly 150million -> back to square one... That happened with at least 50000 stock-trades he made 2001-2010... Owing taxes on nearly every single profitable trade but not being legally allowed to deduct losses made on other trades (deuductions capped ultra-ridiculously low amount)...

Edith: Well, what brought him behind bars was most likely keeping his mouth shut about others involved in these and several other shenanigans... Taking one for the team - so to speak...

 

[nikantw]

Found this. Keep in mind that tax on GGR is tax on every bet.

In many countries, gamblers have to pay a small tax on their winnings. While giving some of your hard-earned profits to the government can feel unfair, try being the casino.

In most countries where gambling is legal, casinos pay a tax on their Gross Gaming Revenue (called GGR), which is in part how economies and communities benefit from regulated gambling. Every country collects GGR payments a little differently, but generally it’s a percentage of the net profit (player wagers minus wins) that a casino brings in.


Figuring out a good GGR or similar system is tricky for governments, who obviously want to benefit handsomely on their casino sin tax but not so much that they discourage new business. This delicate balance sees governments in different parts of the world tinker with their rates, sometimes every few years.

In 2017, Kenya approved a 35% tax rate for its casinos, gambling companies, and lottery operators. This is a big jump from the 12% rate formerly imposed on casinos, yet still not as a dramatic as the 50% rate that was first rumored.


The bold move is part of a two-pronged approach to further help Kenya’s youth with the new tax revenue while also encouraging them to consider other career options besides gambling.


Conversely, Cambodia is looking to attract new casino investors by lowering their GGR tax to ‘mid-single digits’, one of the very lowest in the world.


The burgeoning gambling nation saw a 38% increase in gambling revenue from 2015-16 and seems eager to grow that figure even more without alienating current business.

While these rates might seem high or low, they aren’t even the world’s most extreme on either end. If you’re in the business of opening a new casino somewhere soon, let our lists of the highest and lowest taxes for casinos guide you.


Note: Where the information is available, these are based on GGR levies. We attempted to note taxes following similar systems (per table, GGY, etc.) in the notes column.

The recent raise may be rough for Kenyan casino owners, but the silver lining is that it could be worse: by our count there are at least nine countries that take even more of their casinos’ turnover.

Although Germany has one of the strongest gambling economies in Europe, they also have some of the strictest tax systems for their casinos.


While each of the 16 states are entitled to regulate gambling and tax GGR however they want, this means some have established levies as high as 90%. You’ll find similar rates in France, Austria, Luxembourg and Denmark, which can go as high as 75-80%.

The UK has a tiered tax system, where casinos are taxed a different percentage based on their level of revenue, including a 50% rate for those exceeding 5 million GBP in Gross Gaming Yield.


Australia‘s system is state-based and can also get pretty high.


Even as competitors in Asian casino countries like Cambodia and Singapore introduce attractive lower tax rates for casinos, Macau‘s 39% rate remains extremely lucrative for the local government there.


Recently there’s been a small push to lower this rate, but given the record revenue numbers the region is consistently posting, it won’t be a decision taken lightly.

As the saying goes, while the rich get richer, so do the countries that have tax rates more welcoming to new casinos.

And right now the most warm and welcoming of those places is Russia.


Instead of a percentage rate based on revenue, operators there must pay a monthly fee based on the number of tables and machines they have, although something more traditional has been considered.


Italy‘s four land-based casinos also aren’t subject to any taxes on casino game winnings (although there is a small one for machine revenue).

The rates for many of the other countries listed aren’t as rosy as they look on paper, especially for those in the United States outside of the three specific states mentioned. And while countries like South Africa have low GGR rates, casinos also still have to pay a separate corporate tax.


Singapore has one of the more unique systems in the world, taxing casinos different amounts of money based on the revenue earned from high-rollers (players who open accounts of at least SGD$100,000).


Like with anything in gambling, appearances can be deceiving and it can take some digging to figure out the real numbers.



Published on August 26, 2017
Last updated on January 4th, 2018
Written by Kevin Horridge

 

[slotmaster]

Found this. Keep in mind that tax on GGR is tax on every bet.

View attachment 91913View attachment 91914

In many countries, gamblers have to pay a small tax on their winnings. While giving some of your hard-earned profits to the government can feel unfair, try being the casino.

In most countries where gambling is legal, casinos pay a tax on their Gross Gaming Revenue (called GGR), which is in part how economies and communities benefit from regulated gambling. Every country collects GGR payments a little differently, but generally it’s a percentage of the net profit (player wagers minus wins) that a casino brings in.


Figuring out a good GGR or similar system is tricky for governments, who obviously want to benefit handsomely on their casino sin tax but not so much that they discourage new business. This delicate balance sees governments in different parts of the world tinker with their rates, sometimes every few years.

In 2017, Kenya approved a 35% tax rate for its casinos, gambling companies, and lottery operators. This is a big jump from the 12% rate formerly imposed on casinos, yet still not as a dramatic as the 50% rate that was first rumored.


The bold move is part of a two-pronged approach to further help Kenya’s youth with the new tax revenue while also encouraging them to consider other career options besides gambling.


Conversely, Cambodia is looking to attract new casino investors by lowering their GGR tax to ‘mid-single digits’, one of the very lowest in the world.


The burgeoning gambling nation saw a 38% increase in gambling revenue from 2015-16 and seems eager to grow that figure even more without alienating current business.

While these rates might seem high or low, they aren’t even the world’s most extreme on either end. If you’re in the business of opening a new casino somewhere soon, let our lists of the highest and lowest taxes for casinos guide you.


Note: Where the information is available, these are based on GGR levies. We attempted to note taxes following similar systems (per table, GGY, etc.) in the notes column.

The recent raise may be rough for Kenyan casino owners, but the silver lining is that it could be worse: by our count there are at least nine countries that take even more of their casinos’ turnover.

Although Germany has one of the strongest gambling economies in Europe, they also have some of the strictest tax systems for their casinos.


While each of the 16 states are entitled to regulate gambling and tax GGR however they want, this means some have established levies as high as 90%. You’ll find similar rates in France, Austria, Luxembourg and Denmark, which can go as high as 75-80%.

The UK has a tiered tax system, where casinos are taxed a different percentage based on their level of revenue, including a 50% rate for those exceeding 5 million GBP in Gross Gaming Yield.


Australia‘s system is state-based and can also get pretty high.


Even as competitors in Asian casino countries like Cambodia and Singapore introduce attractive lower tax rates for casinos, Macau‘s 39% rate remains extremely lucrative for the local government there.


Recently there’s been a small push to lower this rate, but given the record revenue numbers the region is consistently posting, it won’t be a decision taken lightly.

As the saying goes, while the rich get richer, so do the countries that have tax rates more welcoming to new casinos.

And right now the most warm and welcoming of those places is Russia.


Instead of a percentage rate based on revenue, operators there must pay a monthly fee based on the number of tables and machines they have, although something more traditional has been considered.


Italy‘s four land-based casinos also aren’t subject to any taxes on casino game winnings (although there is a small one for machine revenue).

The rates for many of the other countries listed aren’t as rosy as they look on paper, especially for those in the United States outside of the three specific states mentioned. And while countries like South Africa have low GGR rates, casinos also still have to pay a separate corporate tax.


Singapore has one of the more unique systems in the world, taxing casinos different amounts of money based on the revenue earned from high-rollers (players who open accounts of at least SGD$100,000).


Like with anything in gambling, appearances can be deceiving and it can take some digging to figure out the real numbers.



Published on August 26, 2017
Last updated on January 4th, 2018
Written by Kevin Horridge

I love the fact that Canada is nowhere on that list.

 

[NeverLucky]

Only tell her when winning, which is bittersweet, because she might want some of that

The classic "yeah, sure, if you are willing to pay for the losses.. "

 

[goatwack]

The classic "yeah, sure, if you are willing to pay for the losses.. "

God, can you imagine, if she ever were to hand me some money for gambling it would be in a loan format

Yet I'm pretty much a soft touch with money. She asks, she gets

In fact.....why am I with her? What have I wasted 20 years for???

Thankyou Neverlucky, I see the light now

 

[TheAddict]

God, can you imagine, if she ever were to hand me some money for gambling it would be in a loan format

Yet I'm pretty much a soft touch with money. She asks, she gets

In fact.....why am I with her? What have I wasted 20 years for???

Thankyou Neverlucky, I see the light now

DID you win? Yes?! well you can treat me with those winnings since i lent the money to you. Im feeling that italian restaurant tonight darling.
Oh, You lost Did you? *shakes head* Why am i not suprised? I told you it was a mugs game and nobody wins. Do you want me to cook something from the food that i also paid for?
;p

 

[goatwack]

DID you win? Yes?! well you can treat me with those winnings since i lent the money to you. Im feeling that italian restaurant tonight darling.
Oh, You lost Did you? *shakes head* Why am i not suprised? I told you it was a mugs game and nobody wins. Do you want me to cook something from the food that i also paid for?
;p

Yep, that's the world- famous woman logic when it comes to money haha.

They'll chastise you if you're stupid enough to confide in them about your £20 loss, but all ears when the magic word is said, namely 'Win' I think they have a special filter that picks certain key phrases out, it is quite uncanny

And they really don't care about details, you could be pulling £50 notes out of your nostrils in a ribbon, it wouldn't faze them

 

[Cody7]

Kind of... But the way I see it is a lot of people spend money on stupid things and get nothing out of it at least the money we gamble has a chance of hitting a big profit it's not the best way of putting it but that's how I feel as long as you have self control and know when to stop/withdraw ect then it's fine but some family and friends may not look at it like that so gutta keep that in mind.

I recently won 1900 and kept playing set out cash out limits and ended up losing 1800 off it, I felt sick to the stomach I let myself go that far especially after telling everyone I won that much then lost it... Luckily no one asked about it and I ended up turning that remaining 100 into 1500 and withdrew and bought a car

 

[goatwack]

Kind of... But the way I see it is a lot of people spend money on stupid things and get nothing out of it at least the money we gamble has a chance of hitting a big profit it's not the best way of putting it but that's how I feel as long as you have self control and know when to stop/withdraw ect then it's fine but some family and friends may not look at it like that so gutta keep that in mind.

I recently won 1900 and kept playing set out cash out limits and ended up losing 1800 off it, I felt sick to the stomach I let myself go that far especially after telling everyone I won that much then lost it... Luckily no one asked about it and I ended up turning that remaining 100 into 1500 and withdrew and bought a car

Great slots comeback there

 

[Cody7]

Great slots comeback there

It really was meant to be I felt like anyway

 

[nikantw]

The recent cut backs at VS made me think of this thread again. Why? Because the reason is more taxes.

Because it is precisely the gambling stigma that gives governments a free pass to do absolutely whatever they want. And they usually want more money.
Anything else than a tax on net income is harmful for the players.
Asking millions (in fees and other taxes) for a few thousand players is ridiculous.
Stopping players from playing at the best of the accredited casinos is the exact opposite of protecting them.

You can easily see which countries actually care about protecting their citizens, they sit down with casinos and make responsible and reasonable decisions.