has online gaming gone to the dogs?

[maxd]

Ok, I'll admit that's a bit of a click-bait title, but the intention behind it is genuine. Allow me to explain.

In my work in Complaints I find that I'm dealing with a lot more pissed off players than I used to. They often don't get much satisfaction from the casinos they frequent. More and more these players -- and me too when I'm trying to help them -- are hitting brick walls when they seek to have an issue resolved. And that brick wall often seems to be some form of corporate BS.

Perhaps the casino has farmed out their Customer Service to a call center in Mumbai and players are forced to run a seemingly endless gauntlet of CS reps who don't know anything and can't make the decisions necessary to get things resolved. Result? Pissed off customer.

Or the casino has implemented ridiculous KYC rules that have nothing to do with customer safety or satisfaction and everything to do with the casino making the withdrawal process as painful as possible in the hopes that Joe/Jane Average Player will get so frustrated that they just reverse the withdrawal and end up playing their winnings away. Result? Pissed off and poorer customer.

Or the casino's legal department has jumped the shark and forced the CS people to claim that they can't talk to anybody but the player because of "data protection laws". See here for how much bull-crap that is: Casino Industry Myths: The General Data Protection Regulation ("GDPR") - Casinomeister - Forum Result? Player pissed off and issue unresolved.

Or the casino has set up an "internal complaints department" that is supposed to handle all player complaints. This is the old "self regulating" shell game that has been repeatedly proven to be exactly what it is: BS. If there is money on the table at Casino X and a person employed by Casino X is in charge of deciding what happens to that money then the end of that process is fairly predictable: a pissed off customer because most times, one way or another, that money will end up flowing back to Casino X. To the surprise of absolutely no one.

I could go on but I think I've made my point: as the casino industry has become more and more "industrialized" -- as our fearless leader puts it -- the customer has simply become a revenue stream. With few exceptions the personal touch is long gone, the mantra of "customer care" is chanted ad nauseum when the opposite is the norm, and the vast majority of the online casino business has just become a big fat money hoover for anonymous casino group owners and shareholders.

Or maybe that's just my jaded view after 13 years of processing player complaints. Is it? See the poll above and let us know what you think. And feel free to comment below.


See Related Threads:

• Quebec Anti Online Gambling Law
• Washington State Online Gambling Ban Challenged
• Debbie Richardson Anti-Gambling Bill Rally Website
• Online Gambling in Australia, The Debate
• Good Covers.com Article On US Situation

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hi Max,
I dont know what to answer, I'm having more the feeling that were just doing the opposite. We are open, transparant and 24/7 available. Support can make their own decisions, as well as for supervisors who are on the shift as well.
I skip my vote here

 

[maxd]

I hear you. I tried to make it clear that there were exceptions but I guess that got a bit lost in the wash. The fact that you are here and responding to players puts you head and shoulders above the rest, IMHO.

 

[Deeplay]

It is much worse today. I have been gambling on and off since around 2005 maybe a bit earlier. And gone are the days of any kind of personal service what so ever. Today we the players are just a number - nothing more. CS for the most part is useless and give stock answers. The new generation of games are either clones or awful. Remember when people would actually look forward to the new monthly MG releases or NetEnt. These days it hardly makes a headline.

Sure some things are better in the UK. You dont get stiffed on reverses, and for the most part you get paid (when you win) without any long delays. But thats where it ends. I have been waiting and waiting to hear from Unibet on documents provided over a week ago. No reply other than they are still in a que. Same answer over and over. I dont wanna make my post about that but its just an example.

I know they are a few really good reps here on CM but I fear they are a dying breed. And I suppose from a casinos pov it makes sense. Using a much more globalist approach - there is no need for the personal touches anymore. Even the highly esteemed Videoslots who yes are very active on the forum - are also faceless- no name just "team video slots" all very cold very impersonal. And yet as players we still give them our hard earned money.

I get a feeling many brands have kind of given up on the UK market - and it is not going to get any better imo. It is not what it used to be. Its more now of a very slick corporate operation where you are known only by numbers. No sense of loyality needs to be instilled because there is always going to be another round of fresh players. And as a side note even though I know this thread is not about this. Affiliate streamers (we know the bad ones) have done immense damage to the industry as a whole.

I know im into my last year of online gaming. The new games are badly put together or insane volatility. The older games have been revamped are for the most part unplayable - MG being one of the worst for destroying epics such as TS2 and IR. Classic games of a bygone era. Maybe im just too old and this is a rant of "in my day..." but honestly I cant see it getting any better. CM has been a shining light for years - but times are changing and casinos less and less need to rely on forums and direct interaction with the player base. And why should they when they have certain streamers banging out £10 to £150 quid spins winning £xxxxxxx each session. All very lame and im almost done with it.

 

[slotmaster]

I have to go with yes. It is awful to play online now with the everything said above. Country restrictions,Tech issues, deposit and withdrawal issues and awful Pay backs now.

Way different than 5-6 years even as back then you would hit smaller amounts to keep you going or a small withdrawal. Now it is a slog to even get $100 up or you don't hit anything and it's all or nothing.

 

[The Dude]

I think I might save my comments for my next podcast. LOL

 

[colinsunderland]

I think that casinos don't care any more. They have the customer base they want, and as mentioned above, have affiliates doing fake streams bringing in the £££'s.

What I have noticed over the past couple of years, on here, but other places too, casino reps just run away when theres the slightest bit of criticism against them. There are of course a couple of exceptions, but even the so called 'top' casinos on here do it too. There are certain ones who deliberately try to deceive their customers, yet whatever they do, people keep playing there. If they can get away with dodgy stuff then they will keep doing it, if it increases the profit.

Reps become unresponsive and nothing is done, yet the casino keeps it top rating (again, not just here but in other places too). If there is no fall out for their actions and they get to make more money, then it's obvious they will keep doing it.

I'm going through something with LeoVegas/Legs11 at the moment where I have been lied to multiple times, do they care? No of course not. 3 years ago I could have sent the rep a PM and got it sorted, haven't bothered this time as I know it's a waste of time. The ICO is going to be informed though, and the only way of changing attitudes is to report casinos to the regulators.

I could name loads of casinos who have reps on here who do things wrong, and have no interest to sort it out, as it will hurt the bottom line.

Then you have the game providers who drop RTP's. I have seen it said they do this because the casinos say they won't serve their games if they don't. Bullshit. If all providers said no, how will a casino operate without games? I could understand a small provider doing it, but do PlayNGo or NetEnt really believe if they don't offer lower RTP's then any casino would drop them?

Pragmatic Play, who have their roots in dishonesty, have all but admitted Roshtein's half a million win on one of their slots was fake. That didn't stop them using it on facebook as a promotional post. Will they care about a bit of negative publicity on forums, no, because they know people will still play there and will still be promoted everywhere.

KYC/SoW is just another excuse for casinos to keep customers' money if that customer can't provide, to the letter, what they are asking for. They then lie about the reasons they are 'allowed' to do this, and run away when they are asked questions.

When autospins etc are banned later this year, we will see more people moving to the unregulated market, as they will have just as much chance of getting paid.

 

[colinsunderland]

Oh and just to prove the point about reps, just seen the Pragmatic Play thread is closed as they requested it to be. Funny that after I criticized them over using Roshtein's 'win' as a promotional tool.

 

[dunover]

It's pretty dire out there at the moment.
The beer is being watered down almost everywhere now with the house edge on many slots being raised by 50% or even 100% or more. Most new slots are garbage nowadays and as we have seen with Playtech and Microgaming, much of the industry is seemingly content to rest on its laurels.
Players like the chance to win big x stake - trouble is, to get those wins (unless very fortunate) you need hours and hours of time to play and an almost limitless budget. Any guesses as to whom that criteria applies?
Then as people witness these big wins, guess which mantra the slot developers adopt?

Bonuses with any realistic chance of conversion are rare nowadays - try (as a new customer) getting a simple 100% with only 25 or 30x playthrough!

GAMSTOP has been both a success and a disaster as no action has yet been applied by banks and processors to ensure deposits cannot reach the criminal scum who run the shithole casinos and casinomir et al.

Petty regulation has also intervened and seems mainly mooted by do-gooders or anti-gambling lobbies and minimal or no consultation with the end users, viz-a-viz us lot. So we have talk about £2 max stakes, auto-play removal, spin speeds etc.

Then we have the illogical misapplication of SoW rules which have provided the casinos with a very convenient stick to beat players with, now reversals are abolished.

Hardly a single casino exists which has full understanding of the GDPR and this has frustrated common-sense and unfettered disputes resolution. It is used as an excuse, a shield, to insulate casinos from the inconvenience of their anti-player actions being challenged.

So yeah, it's been a generally crap couple of years.

 

[dunover]

Oh and just to prove the point about reps, just seen the Pragmatic Play thread is closed as they requested it to be. Funny that after I criticized them over using Roshtein's 'win' as a promotional tool.

Nothing stopping you or anyone else starting another TopGame Pragmatic Play thread. CM even stated so. They may be able to control their thread, but not others' threads.

 

[rshkrn]

The country specific laws and restrictions seem to have made this far worse over the years, the providers and games in general have been able to keep my quest for gambling and entertainment at a somewhat constant level, even after a really looking time

 

[shadow123]

As far as games are concerned, I dont think there is a problem, some sites have thousands, surely it cant be that hard to
find some running at a decent RTP that give reasonable playtime and entertainment.When I first started online gaming i doubt
whether any casinos had a hundred and a new release from MG was eagerly awaited and a big event.
Regarding the relationship between players and casinos, basically there isnt one anymore, some pretend to be friendly but
its just a business like any other, they only exist to make money.
Generally CS is abysmal, they have no interest in helping just have stock answers for delays ect, everything is handled by faceless
teams who are impossible to contact,none of this happened a few years ago,then they valued customers and loyaltly was rewarded.
The blame for all the shit we get now has to be placed firmly with the UKGC,issuing regulations that do nothing to help anyone
and allowing casinos to take advantage where they can,delaying payments in the hope of the player losing when they cant withdraw.

 

[KasinoKing]

Much, much. MUCH worse!
Honestly I'm getting so sick of all the bullshit these days that I may soon stop playing and posting altogether

As a player I'm getting shafted at just about every casino, by them lowering their RTPs for short term gains.
No decent bonuses anymore, just pathetic 10% or a few free spins.
I've been waiting nearly 2 MONTHS for Rizk to approve my SOW documents, while holding on to my £200.
Providers keep on withdrawing my favourite games - especially Netent, MG & RIval

As an affiliate I have been shafted so many times that I have lost count - most recently by those KINDRED evil stealing b'stards (32Red & Unibet).
Nearly all the players I referred to what were once good casinos have stopped playing - probably because of the same bullshit mentioned above, that I am facing myself.
I'm getting close to quitting this business as well.

If it gets much worse the casinos might as well start a pizza delivery service, because they will run out of mugs to put up with all the crap we see nearly everywhere these days.

KK

 

[Lemon]

I can't speak for the rest of the world but my belief is that in the UK it's going to get worse and very quickly when the new UK regs come in. They've gone too far - way beyond the notion of protecting players - and the result will be catastrophic. Lots more operators will see the UK as a hostile market or not financially viable and pull out, leaving a handful of big names remaining, including the LBO chains, which for the most part are a bunch of shitbags. Players will spend much less money, divert their gambling spend to other forms of gambling or just simply quit altogether.

Revenue will drop overnight when the new regs come in; it cannot do anything else can it really? I mean, it's hardly going to go up is it? RTPs will start to be lowered because that's the only language betting-chain bean-counters understand. Operators will spend less money promoting new games and game studios will reduce R&D spend and stick to safe, easy-to-produce slots that don't offer anything in terms of innovation, all of which will alienate remaining players further and send the industry into further decline and inevitably an irrecoverable tailspin.

In many ways people spending less money on gambing is good for the UK economy and society as a whole. But as the industry shrinks in the UK there are bound to be job-losses, and players who are persistent enough will seek out unregulated markets to continue what is for most people, a mere hobby or source of entertainment.

I don't really believe the UKGC have considered all angles or sought the opinion of a wider selection of people when setting out the new regs. I do believe however that they will be taxing much smaller profits in the future and that will almost all be down to reduced slot revenue.

I guess we'll find out in less than 8 months eh?

 

[orion]

much worse.
I agree 100% with Deeplay. In his post I can find exactly my actual feeling and my situation.

I'd like just to add one thing: ONE of the reasons of this getting worse has to be found in the regulation of the markets imo.
Markets regulated means less competition. Lack of competition leads to the creation of "cartellos" (trust), where the casinos are in a comfort zone, just serving all together the same (awful) watered beer.
These days, nobody takes care of the customers (players) anymore.

I may add that UKGC seems the only national body that at least TRIED to do something for the players (even if we see they did many mistakes). On other markets, nothing has been done so far, they are just collecting money, in the easiest and laziest way.
I mean a lot of money.

 

[News Hound]

Specifically speaking about the UK - All that misguided regulation and over regulation will do, is drive players who play responsibly, who in the main are the majority, to offshore jurisdictions. Jurisdictions whereby players will find very quickly they have little to no protection from a regulator.

The UKGC needs to step back as do all the protagonists screaming for low maximum bet limits and see what actual damage they will be doing. Instead of protecting people that gamble, they will be forcing the very people they want to protect into a virtual sea full of sharks and piranhas.

 

[Deeplay]

Specifically speaking about the UK - All that misguided regulation and over regulation will do, is drive players who play responsibly, who in the main are the majority, to offshore jurisdictions. Jurisdictions whereby players will find very quickly they have little to no protection from a regulator.

The UKGC needs to step back as do all the protagonists screaming for low maximum bet limits and see what actual damage they will be doing. Instead of protecting people that gamble, they will be forcing the very people they want to protect into a virtual sea full of sharks and piranhas.

But also on the flip side this could be a very very lucrative market for a casino wanting to set up offshore without the intention of ripping people off. Many hurdles would need to be overcome when it comes to game choice - payment methods. But if UK online gambling collapses as I think it will over the next 18 months especially if max bet limits come into force - then there would be a very wide gap in the market.

I would play at an unregulated casino if they had legtimate games and were known not to screw on payments or deposit methods. Sure it would always be a risk but it was a risk before the UKGC came to life. But as of now there is no place offshore I would trust. But in time that could change.

 

[colinsunderland]

As a player I'm getting shafted at just about every casino, by them lowering their RTPs for short term gains.
No decent bonuses anymore, just pathetic 10% or a few free spins.
I've been waiting nearly 2 MONTHS for Rizk to approve my SOW documents, while holding on to my £200.

That is exactly what I was meaning in my post above.
2 months to approve some documents? Seriously?
What an absolute joke any casino is who take that long to do anything.
It's a breach of their LCCP if they waited till the withdrawal.
If it's over 30 days they are supposed to have sent it off to get approved by the NCA.
Videoslots did it with Stevie recently, refused to pay, saying regulations said they couldn't. Then paid her. So were they lying initially, or did they break regulations?
NYSpins/Voodoo seem to do it regularly. Rep doesn't bother responding.
Casumo do it all the time, rep didn't give a shit.

 

[colinsunderland]

But also on the flip side this could be a very very lucrative market for a casino wanting to set up offshore without the intention of ripping people off.

I agree. There is a massive market opportunity for a casino not licensed within the UK to step in, operate to the same standards we currently get, ie fast withdrawals etc, trustworthy, and take the market share of customers who have/are going to leave the UK.

Same for sports betting. I did a survey about possibly £100 a month spend limits on my forum, and 90% said they would look at gambling outside the UKGC rather than supply SoW documentation to lift the limits. That might not sound bad, but most these people have been gambling for the past 20-30 years, they aren't young people who understand how to use a VPN, yet a lot will stop using UK bookies if that measure comes in.

If you asked me 18 months ago I wouldn't have thought for a second I would be thinking about playing at a non UK licensed casino, no I would happily do so if I knew one a trustworthy one. I would also happily promote them.

 

[News Hound]

But also on the flip side this could be a very very lucrative market for a casino wanting to set up offshore without the intention of ripping people off. Many hurdles would need to be overcome when it comes to game choice - payment methods. But if UK online gambling collapses as I think it will over the next 18 months especially if max bet limits come into force - then there would be a very wide gap in the market.

I would play at an unregulated casino if they had legtimate games and were known not to screw on payments or deposit methods. Sure it would always be a risk but it was a risk before the UKGC came to life. But as of now there is no place offshore I would trust. But in time that could change.

Yes, there already are some decent sites established and operating out of Curacao for example, but they are few and far between. The vast majority of operators offshore to the UK will be rubbing their hands in anticipation and glee, wishing for further punitive measures in the form of UK regulations to come into play.

Unlike you and other members of the forum here and elsewhere, that do their research before they decide as to where to play. The vast majority of players will be choosing their online casino comparatively blindly, just as long as they are not restricted by 'No Autoplay' or 'No ridiculous bet limits'

This is where problems will be seen. Not forgetting the fact that many operators will decide to join others who have already given up their UK licence.

 

[rjcccod]

I’m honored to have her as a girlfriend and a partner and we have no plans to ever break up, he said. We are going to stay together and ride this pony as long as we can.

But Unibet is also thinking about the future. He hopes to embark on a world tour later in 2021, pending the coronavirus pandemic.

We need good music now more than ever if only to ground us in some sort of reality, he said. There is no place to put your feet, you know? It still feels like we are in quicksand in a way. We need things to keep our mental health in good shape and one of the things that can do that is music.

 

[brianmon]

A possible problem with non-UKGC licensed casinos accepting UK players, howerever 'decent' they might be. Is that (AFAIK) the game providers are also licensed by the UKGC, and are likely to have geoblocking in place. Because they stand to be fined by the GC if they're knowingly serving games to UK players.
There are obviously some casinos who are currently 'flying under the radar'. But if a 'decent' off-shore casino is set up and starts taking numerous UK players. The game providers might not be willing to risk a fine or even lose their licence in order to provide their games to such a casino.
Even if the casino was to allow the use of a VPN. The providers might withdraw their games

 

[shadow123]

Think its going to be a crunch year for UK online gaming and somethings got to give.The UKGC are hellbent on continuing their misguided
agenda, dont think that the regulations that are due be introduced later this year will be the last,they will never stop finding new ways to "protect"
us not realizing that the result will be the opposite, more players ending up with serious problems by going offshore.
Not quite sure if the stake limit is still on the cards,no doubt it will happen eventually but that really will be the final nail in the coffin
for both casinos and players.I must confess to looking at offshore casinos but the current offerings out there dont tempt me one bit but
as others have posted there is a wonderful opportunity for honest and reliable casinos to be established outside the UK juristriction.

 

[Deeplay]

A possible problem with non-UKGC licensed casinos accepting UK players, howerever 'decent' they might be. Is that (AFAIK) the game providers are also licensed by the UKGC, and are likely to have geoblocking in place. Because they stand to be fined by the GC if they're knowingly serving games to UK players.
There are obviously some casinos who are currently 'flying under the radar'. But if a 'decent' off-shore casino is set up and starts taking numerous UK players. The game providers might not be willing to risk a fine or even lose their licence in order to provide their games to such a casino.
Even if the casino was to allow the use of a VPN. The providers might withdraw their games

Yes that is a major issue the game providors. But what if a game providor decides to leave the UK market totally ? and I can see than happening if max bet controls come into force in line with the high street bookmakers. Then they have zero liability or exposure to fines where the UK is concerned. Who would have thought 5 years ago that auto play would be banned let alone turbo play and yet this is becoming the new reality.

I think nothing is out of the question given the way the UK is heading. Unless there was some major reversal by the UKGC but no politician is going to back looser gaming controls. Same as when the FOBT max bet rule came in. They soon backed down. And with the smoking ban ... no MP wants to go near it. And gambling is more and more seen as something "Unhealthy" and looser gaming controls does not win votes sadly. But time will tell - I think though it will be too good an opporunity for the right company to miss in the future. In another world we might be getting turbo play - 1000 auto play spins at a time and 100% bonus with 30x playthrough none sticky -) ah the good old days!

 

[aceking123]

Worse & worse getting drowned by a awkward bullshit frankly.
It must be a nightmare for you max.
So fair dues for carrying it out.

 

[k6kaysix]

Not just online to be honest, UK pubs and arcades have been steadily going downhill for the past few years too, random digital AWPs flooding the pub market (£100 cap with the like of brutal super ultra high variance games such as Eye Of Horus / Fishin' Frenzy in a pub, how did that get approved!)

Arcades you could accept the £500 cap back in the day when there was some unique content on the terminals, now every new release is just a carbon copy of an online product...with a £500 cap (there is even the Blueprint Dragon Jammin Jars slot as a £500 game now!), in times gone by 94% then 92% but now...90% (an arcade offering the same experience as visiting a motorway service station just without the overpriced KFC to go with it!)

I haven't had a single gamble since September due to the various lockdowns, a few years ago I would be itching to get back to it but these days I don't really care (my bank manager must think I've won the lottery in the last 6 months!)

 

[dealer wins]

Its just not fun anymore. Constant popups, invariably when you are in the middle of a feature or good win. Deposit limits, loss limits, responsible gambling emails and texts.

And the one we all hate, SOW requests, which for me means the end of using the casino.

 

[mina1929]

I remember the good old days when we had all the casinos to choose from, and all the slots we could play. A lot has changed and for the worse because of country restrictions, game restrictions, terrible and unfair bonuses.

The law in many countries is unfair and don't give us the right to choose and do as we please for the money we work for.

There is really not much more to say as all of you have already pointed out other things as well that I agree with.

There are a few Reps that I still think are awesome and very helpful but not many left unfortunately.

 

[shadow123]

One thing which is sure to produce a swear word (talking Mecca) is setting up autospins on a game where it is tricky to do
(Tigers can be sometimes), start the spins and a bloody pop up comes on saying you have been playing for xxx mins,are you
sure you want to continue,.. er no, thats why i spent ages setting up the autospins, click continue and autospins are cancelled.
At least the UKGC have made sure that wont be a problem later in the year.
Should be a thread here for stupid pop ups, Mecca do one saying you have been playing for 0 mins and lost £0 which comes up at
random.

 

[SuperSeven]

A possible problem with non-UKGC licensed casinos accepting UK players, howerever 'decent' they might be. Is that (AFAIK) the game providers are also licensed by the UKGC, and are likely to have geoblocking in place. Because they stand to be fined by the GC if they're knowingly serving games to UK players.
There are obviously some casinos who are currently 'flying under the radar'. But if a 'decent' off-shore casino is set up and starts taking numerous UK players. The game providers might not be willing to risk a fine or even lose their licence in order to provide their games to such a casino.
Even if the casino was to allow the use of a VPN. The providers might withdraw their games

Having recently moved back from Malta to the UK and tried to continue playing here it is an absolute nightmare comparatively and in reality I am limited to casino's where I have had accounts for a long time now - my freedom of choice and also, therefore, the natural leveller of a competitive market place has been removed.

What we have seen with regulation in every market where it has happened is that it becomes less and less about service to the customers and more and more about brand awareness, those Operators that have money and what they call "unaided brand awareness" become more and more pervasive and whilst they get more and more customers, which is driven by the need to appease shareholders, then they believe that they are doing a good job. This is both true and untrue! What it does mean however is that for newer brands entering a regulated market such as the UK is almost impossible - whether you are the best casino ever or not.

There are inherent problems with good offshore operators targeting the UK - not least it being entirely 100% illegal - but actually getting and then keeping contracts with the major game suppliers and payment providers is extremely difficult. More than the game providers, the PSP's see where the money is coming from as do Visa/Mastercard/Skril etc etc etc and will start to hand out extensive fines and then withdraw their products from the operator worldwide. That effectively leaves only the "whitelabel" operators that have gone that route anyway because it is the lowest barrier to entry and therefor eat cheapest, this isn't the type of Operator that will invest heavily in customer service - they are happy to churn and burn, take the money and run.

 

[asidea]

I thoroughly agree with all the above threads in regards to negative feedback on casinos responses etc..and greed.
I just like to add that:- as a loyal player @PaddyPower, i'm getting much, much less value in return for my money, namely loyalty rewards has gone literally downhill..used to get their regular £5 freebets or loyalty bonus..now its just 10 fs on .10p slot or plain nothing, even bingo loyalty rewards is practically non existent..so just another uk casino down the pits..must say my reasons for quitting this awful mess is almost too obvious.

 

[Lemon]

Greentube have started early - no autoplay button on VS. Nice one - I'll play something else then.

Why the fuxk would you do that now and not wait until the 31st of October? Do they not want peoples' money or something?

 

[CertaCas]

Good old days: free cash without wagering at special occasions like birthdays. Chocolate eggs for Easter, basket of assorted presents for Christmas. Free cruises, flight & all expenses included! Gift sets for the wife, 300% bonuses, etc. etc. Actual personal account managers that were fun to talk to.

Now: F. you! Don't dare to win anything in our casino! Send ridiculous SoW or we'll block your account! Who are you again? Oh by the way, we sold your personal details to spam marketing companies.

So yeah, time to quit.

 

[Deeplay]

Good old days: free cash without wagering at special occasions like birthdays. Chocolate eggs for Easter, basket of assorted presents for Christmas. Free cruises, flight & all expenses included! Gift sets for the wife, 300% bonuses, etc. etc. Actual personal account managers that were fun to talk to.

Now: F. you! Don't dare to win anything in our casino! Send ridiculous SoW or we'll block your account! Who are you again? Oh by the way, we sold your personal details to spam marketing companies.

So yeah, time to quit.

Yeah I remember way back in the day - I was a Vip at Fortune Lounge. They were superb back then. Always giving out comps when you hit a bad run, remember having dinner with 2 of the VIP managers when they were doing some kind of tour of Europe. Plus different packages would arrive at random to my house. Those were in the days where withdraws could take 2 or 3 days - but with FL the VIP always flushed them within minutes of asking.

Sure it cost me ;-) but it was fun. I remember talking when meeting up with the 2 reps about how they felt about big winners and they said for them it was good - but those higher up would sometimes complain but in the end of course so long as they could keep a person playing long enough they got it back with interest.

I played much higher stakes back then and much more than I ever do now. My online gaming is down probably by around 90% - due to me TAB and so on or just not depositing. I like less and less the new games - its all eye candy and usually extreme Variance. Loved the old video poker on the MG download client. The only game where I think in the end I was ever ahead in a life time.

But times change - and the writing has been on the wall for a few years now for the UK. This time next year many names will have dumped the UK Market. It really is not enjoyable anymore and I detest the robotic CS and the way now no one is name. Just a number and next to that number the value in £$€ ....

 

[neon claws]

The problem lately, as I see it from the standpoint of a prolific gambler is the advent of the multi 10kx paytables.
25 dead spins in a row and 0x paying features is now the norm.
Sure you can choose not to play these high volatility slots but we're all gamblers at the end of the day.

 

[Mouse75]

One thing which is sure to produce a swear word (talking Mecca) is setting up autospins on a game where it is tricky to do
(Tigers can be sometimes), start the spins and a bloody pop up comes on saying you have been playing for xxx mins,are you
sure you want to continue,.. er no, thats why i spent ages setting up the autospins, click continue and autospins are cancelled.
At least the UKGC have made sure that wont be a problem later in the year.
Should be a thread here for stupid pop ups, Mecca do one saying you have been playing for 0 mins and lost £0 which comes up at
random.

My fave was a Will Hill one recently... you have been playing for 212345 minutes.... REALLY??? Am i not dead??
Equally impressive was RIZK - after min betting for about 90 minutes, I hit a 216x win (No great shakes - but decent) and got an immediate pop up saying i had PLACED an unusually large bet - was i OK?
Made me panic i had clicked max bet in error (I hadnt)

 

[EasterEEL]

Far too many online casino's have been taking the piss out of customers with unresponsive CS or ridiculous bonuses locking in cash or KYC making withdrawal process painful. Couple that with horror stories of punters not get paid upon big wins, having winnings withheld for "bonus abuse" with no recourse to independent arbitration. Then some of the slots are so boring to play in the base game; Megaways for instance. I think Casino's don't understand that even the biggest mug punters will give up if they never get a pay day.

For me the golden period was around 2004-2008 when bonuses that were achievable. Since then it has been a slippery slope. I lost interest as I didn't think there was any chance of hitting a decent win and I clearly was more lucky playing blackjack and roulette in a bricks and mortar Casino with real dealers. So that's all I do now along with sports betting, which I enjoy much more at the leisurely speed one plays at .

 

[DeidreB]

I have lost interest in spending my entertainment time, on a customer support chat for the evening. The player is the one who needs to diagnose the technical issues, who gets an overwhelming number of requests in order to satisfy the KYC process, all quite predictable unfortunately. I have yet to ever see a casino provide the resolution to a game issue, whether you inappropriately lost money, or not, concluded to resolution of an outcome. Additionally, the gaming experience does not provide the excitement it once did, I think that another area, such as player tracking has contributed to this.

 

[Flyingslotsman]

This. I call bullshit as well, no limit city actually stated on this site about providing lower rtp due to customer's asking and not accepting higher rtp slots. As Colin said, bullshit. Try telling btg their slots won't be getting added as you won't provide a lower rtp, see what happens. I smell shite.

Then you have the game providers who drop RTP's. I have seen it said they do this because the casinos say they won't serve their games if they don't. Bullshit. If all providers said no, how will a casino operate without games? I could understand a small provider doing it, but do PlayNGo or NetEnt really believe if they don't offer lower RTP's then any casino would drop them?

 

[Mouse75]

This. I call bullshit as well, no limit city actually stated on this site about providing lower rtp due to customer's asking and not accepting higher rtp slots. As Colin said, bullshit. Try telling btg their slots won't be getting added as you won't provide a lower rtp, see what happens. I smell shite.

Ok... and i agree its bad for players - however i dont think this is the slot providers fault. In any business you give what the customer asks for. In their case - the casinos were asking for a lower RTP maths model - so they provided one. Very difficult for them to take the moral high ground and turn down custom. Given that at some horrendous casinos Play N Go run at 90%..
I can easily see the casino saying no to play n go - not the other way around. Unless i'm mistaken some of the bigger providers - like Yggdrasil and Novamatic ARENT available at every casino - even big reputable accredited casinos.
Sky Vegas does not have Play N Go for that matter.

 

[Flyingslotsman]

Ok... and i agree its bad for players - however i dont think this is the slot providers fault. In any business you give what the customer asks for. In their case - the casinos were asking for a lower RTP maths model - so they provided one. Very difficult for them to take the moral high ground and turn down custom. Given that at some horrendous casinos Play N Go run at 90%..
I can easily see the casino saying no to play n go - not the other way around. Unless i'm mistaken some of the bigger providers - like Yggdrasil and Novamatic ARENT available at every casino - even big reputable accredited casinos.
Sky Vegas does not have Play N Go for that matter.

Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.

 

[sapit222]

Some regulations are good, but too much is just bad.
Casinos that lower the RTP on games are the worst.

 

[Masquerade67]

But the casinos *can* change the RTP by stating a maximum win and the games-provider simply re-selecting from the RNG should this eventuality be reached. e.g. from game server to Goonies game client......

<GameSettings minStake=“0.10” maxStake=“500.00” maxWinnings=“250000.00” totalStakeIncrements=“0.10|0.20|0.40|0.60|0.80|1.00|2.00|4.00|5.00|10.00|20.00|50.00|100.00|200.00” defaultStake=“1.00” autoPlay=“1” betHistoryViewer=“0” />

In a non-compensated world, this would decrease the RTP should there be possible winnings above the maxWinnings param ???

 

[Mouse75]

Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.

Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.

 

[SuperSeven]

I have lost interest in spending my entertainment time, on a customer support chat for the evening. The player is the one who needs to diagnose the technical issues, who gets an overwhelming number of requests in order to satisfy the KYC process, all quite predictable unfortunately. I have yet to ever see a casino provide the resolution to a game issue, whether you inappropriately lost money, or not, concluded to resolution of an outcome. Additionally, the gaming experience does not provide the excitement it once did, I think that another area, such as player tracking has contributed to this.

I think that your first sentence here has that the nail on the head and the challenge for online gaming providers.

The biggest challenge for Operators in the next 5 years is not each other as it used to be, but the battle or a slice of peoples entertainment time. It is this highly valuable element that has become more and more limited for people as opposed to a share of wallet. Regulation has not helped the operator by putting more and more overheads on them that mean that 99.5% of players who are totally innocent have to jump through hoops which makes it far less appealing way of spending their entertainment time. Far easier to sign up and watch Netflix, or add a HBO subscription or even - pay for Sky sports each month if that is your bag!

 

[SuperSeven]

Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.

Yeah, they get a share of the Gross Gaming Revenue, but the flip side of that is that if players don't like the lower RTP's then the operator won't retain players and therefore don't grow and hence the overall GGR doesn't grow as fast s it could do and therefore they don't do themselves any favours in the long run...

 

[Balky]

I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky

 

[maxd]

Well this has been an interesting one, to say the least. Almost 90% of poll respondents said that things have either gotten worse or much worse since they started. That certainly reflects the general feeling I get from the people that come to us via our Complaints (PAB) Service. Doesn't say good things about the industry though does it?

Anyway, thanks to all for participating. I'm going to un-pin this but feel free to post and/or update here as you see fit.

 

[philderby]

I closed the only remaining two uk sites I played at permanently a few weeks ago. All this sow rubbish makes me scared to deposit. Started a new hobby in January and its a hell of a lot cheaper than gambling. honestly I dont miss it when I read about all the crap with videoslots and other places giving players the run around

 

[philderby]

I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky

Im actually enjoying not playing any more. No more hangovers wondering whats left of my dole money for the month, The new hobby I've got costs me between £45 - £60 a month and that lasts a whole month. £40 playing slots would last me 15 minutes if I was lucky!