Hollywood Tunica held liable for abusing player

[brianzz]

A jury returned a verdict totaling over $729,000 in a case involving the abuse of a patron by security personnel at Tunica's Hollywood Casino and a deputy of the Tunica County Sheriff.

The victim, who was suspected of counting cards, a lawful activity, but not suspected of any illegal activity, was wrongfully detained by Hollywood Casino employees, who instructed cashiers to refuse to cash the victim's chips unless the victim provided them with his identification. The victim refused to do so and asked to be paid so that he could leave the casino. Instead, casino employees called the Sheriff's department. A deputy demanded identification from the victim, who complied with the deputy's demand but instructed the deputy not to show the identification to casino personnel. The deputy ignored this instruction, and allowed casino personnel to take possession of the victim's identification and photocopy it, despite there being no legal basis for so doing. The victim was arrested for disorderly conduct. The charge was subsequently dismissed.

The jury awarded $25,000 from the deputy individually for unreasonable searches and seizures. The jury found the casino liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, abuse of process, conversion, and trespass to chattels. The jury awarded $103,703 in damages to the victim from the casino, plus punitive damages of $600,550.
Grosch v. Tunica County et al.

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[Mousey]

I've never understood why casinos treat card counters as cheaters!

Sheesh... You'd think he'd been sacrificing babies at the table or something...

 

[winbig]

I've never understood why casinos treat card counters as cheaters!

Sheesh... You'd think he'd been sacrificing babies at the table or something...

He's lucky. 20 years ago (maybe even less) they would have beat the crap out of him and sent him on his way without any way to prove that they even did it. Forget about calling the police...

Glad to see the casino was held accountable.

 

[RobWin]

He's lucky. 20 years ago (maybe even less) they would have beat the crap out of him and sent him on his way without any way to prove that they even did it. Forget about calling the police...

Glad to see the casino was held accountable.

Yea, or left him floating somewhere down the Mississippi River...

 

[GrandMaster]

I've never understood why casinos treat card counters as cheaters!

Casinos hate winners. It is excellent news that he won and got damages.

 

[Jasminebed]

Counting cards, a "lawful activity". Kinda like "bonus abusers". Pay the winnings, and just politely uninvite them from your premises. Casinos have the right to refuse players they consider unprofitable, but not refuse legitimate winnings to these players. And besides, with multiple decks, reshuffling long before the end of the shoes, etc.

At Casino du LacLeamy, a casino where the employees work for the provincial government of Quebec, one of the high rollers I talk with was given a three week suspension for advising another player (a younger tourist fella, who was making some incorrect, albeit lucky plays) to take his substantial winnings(over 10K) and go. And my friend was offering sound advice, not being rude because someone is making the "wrong play". Don't want to hijack this thread, so "nuff said".

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Casinos hate winners. It is excellent news that he won and got damages.

Absolutely and I have posted articles in regards....I will find a podcast link of a recent interview with Nevada attorney Bob Nersesian who is still really the only attorney that has the legal expertise on casino patron abuse in LV.....Not sure how much of my actual incident in 2005 I have posted if at all otherthan the fact I was 86ed by the Venetian , yes for winning!!! ......... I put up the largest retainer at that time for a patron against a LV casino (Venetian) but most cases are taken on a contingency fee basis but mine was more complicated.....based on the way all went down I should have let them cuff me and backroom me if I sought serious punitive damages (do not try at home) but that is not one's objective or even thought about when security causes all hell to break loose, you just should try to get out safely with your moolah......had 2 years to file suit but I (as one should) put the casino on notice immediately to preserve all surv.tapes as I believe they can recycle the surv.tapes either every 30 or 60 days but may be as short as 2 weeks, just can not recollect.....the fact that the surv.tapes now can be subpoenaed was the key law passed in Nevada that changed everything for the patron in the early 2000's...... these cases in Nevada, not sure about Miss., do not reach the courts before going through a number of grueling processes with the gaming commission, etc, but the casinos,commision,law enforcement and judges(locally) have generally been in bed together........ ultimately about 4 to 5 years before resolution if not settled as most cases are quietly (Sheldon Adelson is another story).....I reacted on instinct when the knuckleboys followed me ,I assume, to my room and entered soon after I, then illegal searches (wouldn't you worry about a plant especially with no cameras-this was not even law enforcement, keep in mind alot of these patron abuse cases or 86's begin as blantantly false accusations sent from upper management to security that generally do not specifically pertain to direct gaming play), a missing $1000 chip that was on my bar.....I had almost $50,000.00 in chips in my pocket but they did not illegally search me in my room or anywhere, I shocked the hell out of Mr.Suit as I did not mention cashing in my chips until I was in the casino with cameras, they did let me go to the cage and payoff a small marker then wrote me a check, however they never let me go to my lockbox at the VIP cage........if they had taken the chips or I had anything of value in the lockbox then it would have taken years to pursue so actually I realized I won (never filed the lawsuit) when I got out with my check but to this day I (Bob) have only requested access to my lockbox and neither I nor Bob has ever heard a word in regards, you would think?? , and my only real concern was they may plant something after I had put them on notice and they become quite adverserial.......I have been told it is not legal in Nevada (maybe so with consent or notice) to record a two party conversaration contrary to TN. law where it is legal without notice or consent.....regardless I take a recorder (tape) to LV like a toothbrush!!......I will see if I can get the podcast interview with Bob to work and add as an edit.

Having read a handful of Nevada cases, the punitive damges awarded in the OP's post are a little higher than what I can only assume may be comparable cases in Nevada....Although not aware of Miss.laws and even in Nevada there is relatively small number of precedent cases and Miss. even less, I would not be surprised if some type of appeal occurs even if it is only in regards to the amount of punitive damages!!!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Counting cards, a "lawful activity". Kinda like "bonus abusers". Pay the winnings, and just politely uninvite them from your premises. Casinos have the right to refuse players they consider unprofitable, but not refuse legitimate winnings to these players. And besides, with multiple decks, reshuffling long before the end of the shoes, etc.

Not sure if you were referring to Canada or the US or both. I have no clue in regards to Canada!

On account of all the publicity Las Vegas receives as well as the Travel Channel having several shows in regards, most believe as you state above. Before I confuse things, your statement above is true in Nevada (not all US states though). Furthermore, you can actually be 86ed aka trespassed for any reason a Nevada casino might deem. It is very rare to trespass someone now (except maybe known AP's) by admitting a patron is considered unprofitable to the casino aka a winner. In actuality, the casino (often with the endorsement of law enforcement if called) will fabricate a reason to invoke the trespass law where in fact it is actually for simply winning. Imagine if the casinos acknowledged winning as a reason to invoke the trespass law, the hush-hush rogue side of Vegas would get more exposure and maybe the Travel Channel would correct some of the inaccuracies mentioned in their shows...........Isn't this common scenario lovely?? Whether an AP or possibly just a winner, you may be pulled away from a table for whatever accusation the casino fabricates, then cuffed and backroomed, this is called kidnapping so one should smartly resist and demand the police be called, the police will show and rather than protecting your rights, you will be arrested with a minimum charge of disturbing the peace. The good news is if you have the energy, time and in some cases financial means especially if one must travel, you do have legal recourse. The last time I spoke with LV attorney Bob Nersesian, he still had a perferct batting average in these patron abuse cases that have gone to trial...... Yet, the casinos still do abuse patrons as I suppose they do not care and/or that the patron has no idea of their legal rights (TY Travel Channel,card counting is not illegal) and/or most being non-locals will not pursue their rights legally as the legal process is too time consuming, grueling, and expensive even if most cases are based on contingent legal fees. As mentioned, you still have the cost of travel,lodging and if you gamble,lol!! SIDENOTE: Kinda makes you think, what difference would it make if you did have legal recourse to an off-shore online!!!!!

Now for some breaking better news, the Nevada trespass law is now being challenged by LV attorney Bob Nersesian more specifically to APs. This was done year’s ago in Atlantic City. Last I read, a LV federal court ruled unfavorably and the Atlantic City case was not passed. The Nevada Supreme Court has never answered the question if a casino can trespass a non-disruptive guest and bar them from playing legally.

The following as quoted is Bob's legal argument:
"The argument, briefly, is that a Nevada statute requires that casinos remain open to the general public, and that access to gaming remains open to the general public. The statute contains an exception providing that casinos can exclude patrons for any common law reason. The Nevada trespass statute is a statutory reason, not a common law reason, and therefore would be trumped by the statute mandating access. The question is then whether at common law a place of public amusement could exclude any one for any reason, or whether there is a conditionally revocable license requiring cause. New Jersey found the conditionally revocable license. Other states are split, and as mentioned, Nevada has never answered the question."

Let's hope the rogue trepass law in Nevada eventually ceases to be law!!

 

[winbig]

Nash, dude, we love ya, but dude, please, more paragraphs....please please please please

...off to un-cross my eyes...

 

[oldandboring40]

that is the normal customer service at that casino anyway. i can testify to that.

 

[Mousey]

I haven't played at Hwood in quite some time. Last time we passed through, we used a coupon for buffet, I stopped to run a $20 thru a VP machine (with crappy paytables) while hubby used the restroom. A slot attendant was curious as to why I didn't have my card in the machine. Evidently, she didn't like/believe my answer. She was talking into her hand-held as she walked away and then I noticed security watching me as I lost the last bit. He followed us out the door (at a respectable distance). WTF? I know we gray headed old farts looked very suspicious. Real player friendly there Hollywood... Haven't been back since.

And since reading about this law suit I certainly will not darken their doors again.

 

[Mousey]

Casinos hate winners. It is excellent news that he won and got damages.

While card counting does not assure players of winning, evidently this particular player had been winning, or the casino wouldn't have raised such a stink. In fact, by not using his players card, he was reducing his edge as comps play a big part in any considerations for advantage play. Let's face it, the majority of players who try to count cards suck at it and the casinos still make money. Hollywood was stupid to go to such lengths... Paying the player and asking him to leave should have been enough.

It is indeed good to see that the judge ruled in favor of the player....

 

[LaurieJim]

I haven't played at Hwood in quite some time. Last time we passed through, we used a coupon for buffet, I stopped to run a $20 thru a VP machine (with crappy paytables) while hubby used the restroom. A slot attendant was curious as to why I didn't have my card in the machine. Evidently, she didn't like/believe my answer. She was talking into her hand-held as she walked away and then I noticed security watching me as I lost the last bit. He followed us out the door (at a respectable distance). WTF? I know we gray headed old farts looked very suspicious. Real player friendly there Hollywood... Haven't been back since.

And since reading about this law suit I certainly will not darken their doors again.

ive stayed there a few times, rooms are to expensive and the buffet was crappy imo, i dont like how they have the 50 cent slots just right in that one area, no room to move around, sure wont be going back anytime soon, after reading this!!!!!.................................laurie