Ladbrokes stealing (even more) money from their affiliates

[Dave]

Hi everyone,

Just a heads up -- Ladbrokes has decided to steal money from their U.S. based affiliates on October 31st. Here is the email they sent to their U.S. affiliates:

Dear affiliate,

We write with reference to Score, the Ladbrokes and LBapuestas Affiliate Programme in which you are currently participating.

We regret to inform you that Ladbrokes and LBapuestas have taken the business decision to cease commercial partnerships with all of our affiliates based in the USA.

In accordance with Clause 12.6 of our terms and conditions (a copy of which can be found by clicking on the following link xhttp://www.score-affiliates.com, we hereby provide you with written notice that we are terminating our contract with you with effect from 23:59 on 31 October 2012.

Of course, all commissions due and payable to you in respect of the period 1 October 2012 to 31 October 2012 (if any) will be paid in full in accordance with the terms of our contract with you. This is in addition to all other outstanding commissions (if any) due and payable by us to you in accordance with the terms of our contract. Please do so by emailing [email protected] with your payment details together with a pdf document on your company letterhead with the required authorised signatory on the account.

Please be aware that with effect from 23:59 on 31 October 2012 the licence granted to you pursuant to Clause 7.1 of our terms and conditions to display the relevant Ladbrokes and LBapuestas brand features and related content will terminate. Therefore we kindly request that you remove and refrain from using all Ladbrokes and LBapuestas branding (including, but not limited to, all of our logos, trade marks and trade names) and any other Ladbrokes and LBapuestas content from your website at all times after this date. Please also note that access from your website to our score platform will be blocked by us with effect from 23:59 on 31 October 2012 and therefore we also request that you remove all links on your website to the score platform with effect from this date.

Should you have any queries, please contact [email protected]. We would like to thank you for your efforts to date and we look forward to working with you again in the future where business circumstances permit.

Kind regards,

Score Affiliates Team

Essentially, if you built up a player base with Ladbrokes, and if you happen to live in the USA, Ladbrokes intends to steal your entire player base at the end of this month without paying any sort of lump sum compensation whatsoever. If you counted on the residual income to put food on the table, too bad. No soup for you!

This latest move comes only a few months after another unsavory move by Ladbrokes, when they retroactively forced lower commission rates on all of their affiliates. Apparently that reduction wasn't enough to satisfy them, since they now intend to steal the remaining residual income on the 31st.

IMO, all affiliates should be very concerned about this. This month, U.S. affiliates are the victims of Ladbrokes' greed, but next month it could be another country. I would advise any affiliate reading this to stop promoting Ladbrokes immediately, since they are very comfortable using Clause 12.6 in the T&Cs to shed affiliates (and therefore steal) when it suits them.

Additional discussions here:

xhttp://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/money-grab-ladbrokes-dumps-all-u-s-affiliates-steals-future-residual-income-t5615.html
xhttp://www.gpwa.org/forum/ladbrokes-boot-us-affiliates-207661.html
xhttp://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/48224-score-affiliates-screws-affiliates.html
xhttp://www.pokeraffiliatelistings.com/forums/general-poker-affiliate-forum/24603-labrokes-cuts-off-us-affiliates.html

 

[Ladbrokes]

Ladbrokes reply: Warning: Ladbrokes stealing (even more) money from their affiliates

Hello everyone,

Thank you for the feedback on this, of course, we’re not happy about the negative impact this decision has on our ongoing affiliate relationships and we have been trying to make this a smooth as possible for all our active affiliates. We would like to again express our sincere apologies for this undesirable change.
Ladbrokes does not accept US players and although our USA based affiliates were promoting us to a non-US customer base, we still had to cut our ties. As a public limited company, we are constantly monitoring risks to our current and future business. In the light of this, working with affiliates directly or indirectly associated with the USA is regrettably perceived as high risk for our future business in a potentially regulated US market.

All other affiliates remained unaffected and it’s business as usual.

Although this only affects a fairly small amount of Score Affiliates, we’re still mindful about the impact it has, should our decision have directly impacted you and you have not yet made contact with us, please contact us on [email protected] and we will be happy to discuss.

Regards,
Liva

Score Affiliates Team
by
Ladbrokes

 

[conker]

Ladbrokes does not accept US players and although our USA based affiliates were promoting us to a non-US customer base, we still had to cut our ties.

This begs the question Why? They are not doing anything illegal, they just happen to live in a country where laws make it very difficult for players to gamble online.

And why are you not paying affiliate earnings on existing players to US based affiliates? That is blatent stealing and makes the whole bwin retroactive term change thing a few years ago look like nothing.

I see this is your first post, so I will give you a chance to respond and build up your post count a little.

 

[Dave]

...although our USA based affiliates were promoting us to a non-US customer base, we still had to cut our ties.

Specifically, why?

What is the specific legal reason why Ladbrokes believes this step needs to be taken? Is there an existing law on the books that compels you to sever ties with U.S. based companies? (Yes or no.)

Also, why isn't Ladbrokes offering to buy out the affiliate accounts for a reasonable lump sum payment? As it stands, Ladbrokes plans to simply steal all of the residual income tomorow night without any sort of compensation. Unacceptable. The company should buy out the affiliate accounts or do something to help mitigate the losses some affiliates will face.

A company that steals from its affiliates is NOT one to be trusted. Players beware. This is Grand Prive all over again, and Bryan summed up that fiasco very well here. Specifically:

Baaaad casino practice.

Trust has been shattered. The casino group will continue to profit while tossing hundreds if not thousands of webmasters into the cold. If they are willing to do this with their business partners, how do you think they plan on treating their players?

Unless Ladbrokes steps up and resolves this in a more satisfactory manner, players would be wise to avoid Ladbrokes at all costs.

 

[kwblue]

I agree that Ladbrokes needs to answer the questions listed. A lump sum payment would be expected in this type of situation. It is EXTREMELY unethical to blatantly steal as they are doing and certainly reminds me of the Grand Prive example (and even the BWin/BeWinners more recent fiasco).

These affiliates have devoted a great deal of time and effort to help your casino 'exist' and profit. To steal from them for no purpose and without adequate explanation is abhorrent for a 'public' company (as you so often love to state). Do the board members realize what is going on with Score affiliates? Do they approve of such unethical behavior? If so... then that means the casinos are CERTAINLY not a safe place for players.

I would love to hear further explanations from Score Affiliates, Ladbrokes, and their board.

 

[bonustreak]

Sincere apologies don't pay our bills or change the fact that your stealing from your marketing partners. You need to buy out our player database we sent you over the years plain and simple! Just because we live in the states means nothing! We also have our site hosted in the UK- We have a .co.uk brand, we pay our taxes on earnings generated by your company so we are considered marketing partners plan and simple!

We are making a rogue operator page you will be blacklisted and players will be warned they could be next!! If anyone would like to join our blacklisted pages please pm me asap!

If your referring to the future of US gaming and Ladbrokes joining that country's landbased casinos then remember your burning your bridges with the same affiliates you will need in the future!!
We are established marketers & we know how to reach a targeted area since we have been Geo targeting the UK from the US since 2006, I think we can make sure to let every player of your future market know your nothing but thieves!

 

[Dave]

I just finished putting up an article about Ladbrokes here: xhttp://www.newslotgames.com/rogue-online-casinos/ladbrokes.asp

Send me the URL when yours is ready and I will add it to my page.

 

[Pulver]

Glad I don't promote this lot.. Feel sorry for the US guys..

 

[KasinoKing]

Here's a hypothetical question:

What if Ladbrokes transferred the existing player-base of one (or more) of their USA Affiliates to someone based outside the USA (e.g. an existing affiliate in the UK), so there would no longer be any payments or links to the USA.
Then the UK Affiliate could forward the income to the USA Affiliate.

Would that be considered money laundering?

KK

 

[Simmo!]

Then the UK Affiliate could forward the income to the USA Affiliate.

Would that be considered money laundering?

Probably - but even if it didn't that would invariably lead to other issues.

The simple and ethical solution would be for Ladbrokes to buy out the players, although I personally just don't get why they are ditching US affiliates. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. All I can think is whoever made this decision either a) knows something we don't, b) has made a panic judgement or c) doesn't really understand the US situation. Whichever it is, the way it's been implemented doesn't exactly inspire brand confidence.

 

[maxd]

Removed "Warning" from the thread title, too easily confused with an official Casinomeister Warning.

 

[bonustreak]

With all due respect I sincerely hope there will be an 'official' warning or something from Meister about this thievery.
This is almost the same type of thing that happened with C-Planet which was totally unacceptable as well.

 

[Dave]

I am hoping for an official statement from Bryan soon as well.

Ladbrokes doesn't appear to be backing down -- the mass robbery went ahead as planned -- and they completely ignored the followup questions posed to them earlier in this thread (and elsewhere).

This is not how a reputable casino should act.

 

[luckydabberbingo]

What if the US affiliate moved to another country ,will they get their account back?These are options they should have given their affiliates.Not everyone will be interested but probably a few who make big money would consider it...

 

[The Dude]

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't understand if it has to do with being an American or an American based business. There is a simple solution to all of this: US based affiliates could partner with UK based affiliates - or even me for example.

Talk about throwin' out the baby with the bath water. Just shutting off US affiliate accounts is unacceptable. There ought to be some sort of agreed upon settlement. After all - it's a partnership, right?

 

[The Dude]

I've moved this to a the "Complaints" section so that the entire membership may comment on this - not only affiliates.

 

[maphesto]

If Ladbrokes can do this to affiliates, they could do the exact thing with players. I've read at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

that an affiliate been received a 6 month average compensation offer from Ladbrokes.

This means that ALL the remaining money is kept by Ladbrokes.

I don't know where in the standards for accredited casinos this is mentioned, maybe it isn't mentioned at all? However, it hurts my eyes a bit to see Ladbrokes at the accredited section here at CM when they are trying to steal like this. I also understand that this puts Casinomeister in an uneasy situation. They just returned to the accredited section, and now this.

 

[Nate]

I'm literally NEW to the Affiliate Business - A HUGE amateur beginner... ; however, A lot of work goes into this type of business. It's very unfair for Ladbrokes to 'steal' the bread and butter from people who have worked hard to direct that traffic to them. Its unethical and roguish IMPO.

I cannot understand how they will not even offer compensation to those affiliates. Many of the players they brought in will still contribute to Ladbrokes revenue for many years to come.

It would be interesting to see how many affiliates are affected from the US and what their players contribute on average to Ladbrokes on a monthly basis. This would give us a clear idea of how much they intend to 'pocket' without feeling guilty about it... If they get away with this, what stops other places from following suite... not because of legislation, but because of greed?

Nate

 

[vinylweatherman]

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't understand if it has to do with being an American or an American based business. There is a simple solution to all of this: US based affiliates could partner with UK based affiliates - or even me for example.

Talk about throwin' out the baby with the bath water. Just shutting off US affiliate accounts is unacceptable. There ought to be some sort of agreed upon settlement. After all - it's a partnership, right?

In the other forum linked to, one affiliate simply changed his affiliate arrangements so that the payments went to his non US company rather than his US based one. For him, a very simple solution indeed.

However, I suspect some underhanded intent by Ladbrokes. They seem to have given only 2 weeks notice, nowhere near enough time for affected affiliates to explore their options, such as your suggestion of partnering with non US affiliates, or even selling on the Ladbrokes portion of their business to a non US entity. It seems the short notice was intended to scupper the working out of such deals, as affiliates only had 2 weeks to put their Ladbrokes accounts up for sale, a non-US affiliate to buy, and the transfer to take place. From the 1st November, US affiliates can't even change their accounts to specify a non-US entity, as all access has been blocked.

US affiliates were doing nothing different to any other US based company that does marketing work on behalf of casinos to non-US players. Many of the snail mail marketing for casinos has been posted from the US, even though it is for casinos that don't always accept US players.

How is this different to what Grand prive did. Grand Prive only did one thing different, they lied by pretending the casinos were closing down at the same time, which meant the players would not be generating any further revenue in any case.

Ladbrokes has benefited from the expertise of the US affiliate, many of whom have been around far longer than non-US affiliates. They also adapted to change by targetting non US players for those brands that no longer accepted US ones.

The principle seems to be that because of UIGEA, Ladbrokes cannot take ANY kind of service whatsoever from a US based company. The same principle is bound to affect many other countries. If Ladbrokes hasn't got a Spanish license, they could argue that they have to ditch all Spanish affiliates.

Ladbrokes won't simply vanish either, angry affiliates will blacklist them on their sites, and guess who will be seeing this the most, the non-US target market of these affiliates!

One post even suggests that your own company will be affected as it is based in the US, but it seems you have thought of this already, and do not use a US registered company when it comes to your affiliate deals.

An affiliate with money to invest could have made a killing by offering to buy out US affiliates and having a ready made and pretty large Ladbrokes player base right from the start.

I suspect Ladbrokes didn't want all their affiliates working out such deals, as it would save them no money. By shutting down those accounts that couldn't strike a deal in 2 weeks, they have saved themselves the money that would have carried on going out to affiliates.


Like Grand Prive, players will probably not notice, and even when they see the blacklistings, they will consider their own experience with Ladbrokes to be a better indicator.

One other observation made was that Ladbrokes would not have got away with this if "affiliates stuck together like they used to".

 

[Dave]

Nate, maphesto, and vinylweatherman -- great posts.

Reputable casinos don't steal from their business partners, and in my opinion, Ladbrokes belongs in the rogue pit with Grand Prive.

 

[The Dude]

I'm still waiting for further comments from Ladbrokes since what has already been published just won't do.

I've also updated Casinomeister's Philosophy page to cover situations like this:
https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/about-us/philosophy/

Dealing with Affiliates:
Partners or what?
If casinos have "partner" programs, then affiliates need to be treated as such: business partners. Most everyone is fully aware that business ethics are applied evenly amongst all aspects of a business' endeavors - i.e. its product and its marketing. If a casino treats its players like crap, it will most likely paint its affiliates with the same crap brush. Affiliates should always be wary of how casinos treat their players, and vice versa.

 

[Seventh777]

I have never been an affiliate so I know nothing of the legal bindings (if they exist), is there any form of a legally binding contract between affiliates and casino`s?. if not, Ladbroke`s could pave the way for the more unscrupulous casino`s out there to follow suit, if however there are legal contracts in force then surely they are in breach of them?.

 

[KasinoKing]

I have never been an affiliate so I know nothing of the legal bindings (if they exist), is there any form of a legally binding contract between affiliates and casino`s?. if not, Ladbroke`s could pave the way for the more unscrupulous casino`s out there to follow suit, if however there are legal contracts in force then surely they are in breach of them?.

I'm pretty sure that NO affiliate programs enter into legally binding contracts with their affiliates.
And I'm also pretty sure all the T&cs have a clause allowing the Program (casino) to terminate the contract with their affiliates at any time for any reason.
(But I could be wrong about either or both of those things!)

KK

 

[Seventh777]

I'm pretty sure that NO affiliate programs enter into legally binding contracts with their affiliates.
And I'm also pretty sure all the T&cs have a clause allowing the Program (casino) to terminate the contract with their affiliates at any time for any reason.
(But I could be wrong about either or both of those things!)

KK

I find that hard to believe that you guys don`t cover your backs with legally binding contracts, I would imagine there to be quite a lot of money involved here .

 

[premiergaming]

I'm pretty sure that NO affiliate programs enter into legally binding contracts with their affiliates.
And I'm also pretty sure all the T&cs have a clause allowing the Program (casino) to terminate the contract with their affiliates at any time for any reason.
(But I could be wrong about either or both of those things!)

KK

They can terminate the contract at any time.

there not a legally binding contract in place but there is certain things that Affiliates cannot do that can cause alot of Sh*t which the Casino would take very Seriasly.

 

[Brooklyn]

Go on and press it.




Did they not learn anything from Grand Prive? I don't understand.

Ladbrokes is making a huge mistake. Let's just see if in a few years they change software and come crawling back?

Gross.

 

[Dave]

Ladbrokes rep, are you planning to respond here, or is the discussion over?

 

[Brooklyn]

This is surely not a way for an accredited casino to act. This thread has been lost for days, no response on their part at all.


I am going to PM them and ask them to come clear some stuff up.

 

[The Dude]

Ladbrokes rep, are you planning to respond here, or is the discussion over?

Actually she responded to me via PM last Thursday. I haven't had a chance to update the thread. She said the Score is in the process of contacting all affiliates who have had active accounts in the past six months (referred traffic and generated income) and are actively discussing compensations.

I'd like to hear from affiliates who have been made offers - to see if they deem them fair or not.

I'm still perplexed as to why Ladbrokes made this move. It still doesn't make any sense to me. Who is to say that Bonustreak and I aren't partners? (or any other affiliate physically in the States) Is Ladbrokes worried about sending money to the States? Then they could just send it to me and everything is kosher. Right?

 

[Ladbrokes]

Update from Ladbrokes

Hello everyone,

Responding to this thread, I would like to express our apologies on behalf of Score Affiliates for the abrupt and sudden loss of business this move has caused our affiliates. Yes Bryan is right, the Score Affiliates Team has contacted all affected affiliates and is actively discussing how to mitigate the negative impact this decision has on their business continuity and revenues. As discussed previously, we were advised to avoid any direct or indirect US commercial activity that might be used against Ladbrokes in any potential future US business ventures. Unfortunately, this explicitly included affiliates and other marketing partners based in, or with bank accounts in the US, regardless of them marketing towards the US or not.

All of you are more than welcome to contact your affiliate manager or [email protected], we are happy to discuss each case separately.

Regards,
Liva
Score Affiliates
by
Ladbrokes

 

[bonustreak]

We can offer a report from February 2012 onwards with the Score-affiliate program as you do not have access anymore.
However when we closed the old affman system, we notified affiliates to load past reports for their benefit.
Unfortunately we cannot issue historic reports prior to February 2012 for your account.

I requested a 2 yr back audit on my account because we stopped really pushing them as much as we use to due to the lack of support, taking a year just to be paid out our earnings. The reason we were not paid
was because they could not send money to all the avenues I presented to them why I have no clue it was really strange. Not to mention it was a revolving door I just gave up trying to plead my case to a new AM each month.
I have had the impression they really just didn't care about affiliates or marketing partners, heck they didn't care about their own employees!

Anyway I was given a settlement offer that I quickly said no way! Given 6 months average is a joke to be honest if I had the chance to sell my player database to a non US affiliate I would have asked for at least 2 yrs of generated earnings since IMO that is the average player lifetime.

Thank you Bryan for taking the time to look into this situation it is very much appreciated!

 

[Dave]

Ladbrokes, thanks for the response.

Personally, I think the entire Ladbrokes legal team should be fired for incompetence; this decision seems to be based entirely on speculation.

I can't help but wonder what will the decision-makers at Ladbrokes will do next. Will affiliates in other countries be affected? Will players be affected negatively? Hopefully not, but I guess we will see.

Regarding the buyout offered to bonustreak -- 6 months seems low to me. I think 2 or 3 years is more like it, especially if the account is a few years old and generates steady income each month.

Thank you Bryan for taking the time to look into this situation it is very much appreciated!

Agreed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello everyone,

Responding to this thread, I would like to express our apologies on behalf of Score Affiliates for the abrupt and sudden loss of business this move has caused our affiliates. Yes Bryan is right, the Score Affiliates Team has contacted all affected affiliates and is actively discussing how to mitigate the negative impact this decision has on their business continuity and revenues. As discussed previously, we were advised to avoid any direct or indirect US commercial activity that might be used against Ladbrokes in any potential future US business ventures. Unfortunately, this explicitly included affiliates and other marketing partners based in, or with bank accounts in the US, regardless of them marketing towards the US or not.

All of you are more than welcome to contact your affiliate manager or [email protected], we are happy to discuss each case separately.

Regards,
Liva
Score Affiliates
by
Ladbrokes

I see no reason why US affiliates can't simply sell on to no US affiliates. This would serve the purpose of removing all ties between Ladbrokes and the US. It seems this was not JUST about severing ties with the US, but "confiscating" good revenue generating affiliate streams by ensuring only a 2 week window was available between notification and completion of sale. It seems a few of the bigger affiliates were able to dodge this particular bullet by switching the Ladbrokes side to their non-US subsidiaries, which could be done simply by logging in and specifying a non-US company or bank account.

Most affiliates are not that big, and would need to sell out to a non-US entity, or even partner with one as suggested by Bryan. The ONLY real difference is that rather than "confiscation", Ladbrokes would still be paying commission on those players until they ceased playing.

The whole idea seems illogical, as it implies you can have NOTHING in the way of products and services from the US, whether or not it relates to gambling. Well, you had better ditch MGS then, as the software is tied into Internet Explorer (lobby plugin), a product made by a US company. Back office had better switch to Linux too, as Windows and OS (Apple) are the products of a US company.

It doesn't end there either. There are a whole bunch of EU countries that have now banned offshore companies from offering gambling services following the US moves, so by the same argument based on the same legal advice, many other affiliates had better get their exit strategy sorted so that they can act within 2 weeks of any formal notice.

What the legal team has failed to assess is the risk of being made a pariah among the various affiliate collectives, and thus ending up on blacklists alongside Grand Prive.

It seems affiliates are under attack from all angles, and those that play by the rules are going to suffer the most. Maybe it is this pressure that has caused so many to resort to spamming and other dodgy tactics in order to survive. It is the same in any sales driven structure, unrealistic targets that have to be achieved just to survive creates a culture where the rulebook is kicked to the curb, and anything that works, no matter how dodgy, is used. The fallout from this type of culture comes much later, just ask any UK bank

 

[P.V.]

If the OP is correct with the clause pointed out within the T & C's then it appears they have the right to terminate at their discretion and for whatever reason.

How many times have we heard around here to read the T & C's, it's unfortunate but a contract agreed upon.

This seems pretty clear, again if the OP is correct with the post and link, haven't looked into it.


OP Quote:

In accordance with Clause 12.6 of our terms and conditions (a copy of which can be found by clicking on the following link xhttp://www.score-affiliates.com, we hereby provide you with written notice that we are terminating our contract with you with effect from 23:59 on 31 October 2012.

 

[P.V.]

I looked at it an it actually says:

12.6 Without prejudice to clause 12.3, we reserve the right to terminate this Agreement at any time and for any reason immediately by delivery of written notice to you.

 

[vinylweatherman]

All affiliate programs have this type of clause, and was the initial justification Grand Prive used when they threw out all their affiliates and closed the program.

What this terms does NOT do however, is give them the right to not pay for work already done. If I had a builder work on my house, and then terminated the agreement just before he laid the last brick because I had made sure there was a term allowing me to do it, I would still be liable to pay for the work already done.

The issue with affiliate deals is that they have this "life of the player" payment schedule, much like casinos that pay progressive jackpots over an extended period. Casinos that wriggle out of continuing to pay out a progressive to a player because either party has exercised their right to terminate the agreement end up in the rogue pit. The Ladbrokes program is also likely to end up in affiliate rogue pits if they can't work out a fair exit strategy for US affiliates. It would be even more damaging for Ladbrokes as they still have an active program, but they may find affiliates reluctant to put much effort into promoting a brand that may close their accounts at 2 weeks notice because their legal team identifies another country they need to cut all ties with.

I wonder what the legal situation is for a US business that promotes gambling ONLY to customers in countries where it is legal. Surely this is governed by normal laws of international trade, where it is common for a US business to sue a non US business for damages, and even ask for extradition to have the case heard in the US.

There was the case of the "Nat West Four" some while back, who did something considered illegal under US law, but that was perfectly legal under UK law. The US demanded the UK extradite them to face trial in the US, and from what I remember, the UK government gave in rather than dismiss the case on the grounds that they were in the UK at the time, and thus did nothing illegal. It could also be a warning to non-US providers that have assisted US players to process gambling transactions or take US bets. This shouldn't bother Ladbrokes surely, as they never took US players when UIGEA was in force.

 

[P.V.]

I see your point but they clearly have it worded to do as they warrant. I haven't really studied this in detail but I'm assuming they're terminating all U.S. affiliates and the affiliates will be paid up until time of the termination notice, correct?

As pointed out above it clearly states within the T & C's: Without prejudice to clause 12.3, we reserve the right to terminate this Agreement at any time and for any reason immediately by delivery of written notice to you.

Nowhere does it say anything about compensation after termination, or that you'll continue to receive payments for active accounts but no new accounts shall be initiated as we are terminating our agreement with you for future accounts.

I truly understand the frustration on behalf of all the affiliates whom have promoted this operator but when negotiating these type of agreements one should not allow them to be so self serving and one sided.

As with any legal agreement, before signing on, one should identify how a clause like this can hurt you financially and try to negotiate a better deal or don't sign on. JMO.

 

[baldidiot]

Unfortunately a lot of affiliate programs have some kind of term like this - known as an FU clause - and a lot of it comes down to trust as to whether or not it will be used. Only very large super affiliates would be able to negotiate a full custom agreement that overrides the aff T&C's.

It will be interesting to see what Ladbrokes do in a year or two when they suddenly decide they do want affiliates again (a la grand prive)...

It would also be interesting to see terms like this contested in court (not just ladbrokes). In contractual law any ambiguity or conflicting terms benefit the person who didn't write the agreement. So if ladbrokes used the words 'for the lifetime of the players account' in their aff agreement, it could be contested that this term overrules the termination agreement and whilst the account can be terminated, revenue needs to continue to be paid on existing players.

But I'm not a lawyer...

 

[vinylweatherman]

I see your point but they clearly have it worded to do as they warrant. I haven't really studied this in detail but I'm assuming they're terminating all U.S. affiliates and the affiliates will be paid up until time of the termination notice, correct?

As pointed out above it clearly states within the T & C's: Without prejudice to clause 12.3, we reserve the right to terminate this Agreement at any time and for any reason immediately by delivery of written notice to you.

Nowhere does it say anything about compensation after termination, or that you'll continue to receive payments for active accounts but no new accounts shall be initiated as we are terminating our agreement with you for future accounts.

I truly understand the frustration on behalf of all the affiliates whom have promoted this operator but when negotiating these type of agreements one should not allow them to be so self serving and one sided.

As with any legal agreement, before signing on, one should identify how a clause like this can hurt you financially and try to negotiate a better deal or don't sign on. JMO.

That's the big problem. There is no negotiation, it is a take it or leave it presentation. Most programs do NOT screw affiliates because they NEED them, thus this term is almost never used. Grand Prive used this term because they felt they could do away with affiliates altogether, but after 2 years they realised how wrong they were.

The problem is that the screwed affiliates don't just pull the banners, they actively market AGAINST the program that screwed them. It actually makes good business sense to do so, as it would persuade players to join a brand they still promote rather than one from the program that screwed them. Ladbrokes don't care if US players are seeing this message, but the affiliates they are screwing over do NOT market to the US, having switched their efforts to marketing to those countries where players can freely join the casinos being promoted. It is these "core market" potential Ladbrokes players that are going to see the brand blacklisted on sites run by US affiliates. If non-US affiliates stick with their US counterparts by ditching Ladbrokes voluntarily, the negative message will become even more widespread.

Even now there has been some backpeddling by Ladbrokes, although 6 months projected revenue as compensation does not seem too popular.


What affiliates should be doing is find a non-US partner, and call on Ladbrokes to cooperate in moving their players over to a non-US based company. This is, after all, the reasoning allegedly behind this move. If Ladbrokes react by again changing the goalposts by objecting even to a non-US affiliate taking on US affiliate's Ladbrokes players, then it would appear that the REAL reason for this move was to find a means to terminate a few active earning accounts to save money. It's not that different to detagging players other than the fact that they have found a way to weave some rather dubious legal reasoning into the process to make it happen according to the terms and conditions.


Maybe C-Planet should have tried it, rather than detag players in secret, come up with a legal argument to allow them to close out whole groups of affiliates at a moment's notice, starting with the US, or maybe Spain or Italy.

 

[P.V.]

That's the big problem. There is no negotiation, it is a take it or leave it presentation.

That's my point within the T & C's and that's all I can comment on.

 

[bonustreak]

Anything new from Ladbrokes or are they just hoping this goes away because that will not happen!!

 

[Brooklyn]

I was thinkin the same thing.

Terrible.

How come this isn't important to them, you would think they'd be here trying to help, not just when someone sends them a PM.

 

[bonustreak]

Seen this at CalvinAyre.com today....

UK bookie Ladbrokes is rumored to be in “turmoil” as they look at making redundancies in certain parts of the business. CalvinAyre.com has learned the company, as of today, put the entire Horse Racing Dealing Desk and Specials Team at risk of redundancy and an anonymous source told us the “place is in turmoil”. There will also be a further meeting tomorrow morning at 11 a.m. to further discuss the problems that are currently affecting the companies Trading Team and performance.

We contacted Ladbrokes to either confirm or deny whether this was the case and at the time of writing we hadn’t heard anything back.

 

[Dave]

Interesting. If they are cleaning house, they should be sure to fire the incompetent legal department while they're at it.

Sooner or later, these major issues are going to start affecting players in a negative way. Ladbrokes belongs in the rogue pit, not on the Accredited list.

 

[anniemac]

I don't think this question is off-topic as it deals with foreign entities doing business in the US.

Does BetFair (I know they are on the S**t list) still have US affiliates? Reason behind asking this - Betfair has it's fingers in the horseracing industry in the US up to owning racetracks and the DailyRacingForm.

If they still have US affiliates for their casino then what is the big deal with LadBrokes? The US horseracing industry couldn't kiss Betfair's behind enough so I don't see what LadBrokes is squirming about.

 

[Dave]

As far as I know, Betfair has no problem working with U.S. based affiliates.

I won't promote them, though, because of the happy hour bonus fiasco (which got them rogued here). And even if that hadn't happened, I still wouldn't touch them because their affiliate program has extremely predatory terms and conditions. One would be a fool to promote them with such unfair, one-sided T&Cs in place.

So, while U.S. affiliates are welcome to join the affiliate program, there probably aren't many that actually do so (and if they do, they are likely suffering from Head in the Sand Syndrome).

 

[vinylweatherman]

If Ladbrokes are trying to get rid of staff, it would suggest that money, not legality, is the driving force behind the decision to manipulate the mass detagging of players brought in by US affiliates. The last thing they would want is those smaller US affiliates managing to sell off their players to much larger affiliates, who would then have an even bigger hold over Ladbrokes than they do already. Shafting big affiliates is more dangerous than shafting smaller ones - it's a matter of PR, and the much larger reach a big affiliate has when things turn sour.

UK "bread and butter" business may have been falling due to the long recession. We have many bookies competing for what remains, with some towns having more than one brand in the same street. I have Coral in the local neighbourhood shops, and in town there are two others almost next door to each other (and right next to the 4 big banks).

 

[universal4]

I personally think it is only a matter of time before those "big affiliates" as you stated Vinyl are affected and they too will be shafted...

The loss of hundreds (in reality thousands) of smaller affiliates from the US, WILL AFFECT BRANDING!

Do the math, let's say it's only 200 affiliates and they average a few thousand impressions per month (very conservative) multiply that by 200 and that is millions of people that will NOT see their ad. I have for many years that having (even non-producing) small affiliates does not cost, but losing those affiliates does.

Being rogued and blacklisted by those hundreds of affiliates will certainly not help their bottm line either, and as it erodes even more they will look for additional "cost cutting" measures and that will likely translate to more affiliate contracts being cancelled. They will likely move on to other countries that are currently in legal turmoil to justify their moves publicly.

I wonder if they are considering making themselves look like a more attractive take-over target or if they are just trying to trim down because they are bleeding money.