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Please help! My bitstarz money was forfeited when cashing out!

H

helpneeded08

Newbie member
Joined
Feb 27, 2023
Location
kansas
So I have played quite a bit of slots on @BitStarz and just today I went to cash out some of my winnings. (I like to cash out and then redeposit more comfortable amounts). When I did so, I received an email saying that my funds were lost because I bet over the max bet permitted on a bonus which I had no idea was a thing. I had never selected any bonus or anything, so I didn’t think there would be any restrictions, but they told me that it auto placed a deposit bonus to my account. It’s extremely aggravating because I even had a buddy ask me if I did a deposit bonus and I told him that I did not.
Has anyone had this issue and been able resolve it? I saw a post from awhile back that a rep was able to help him and place his funds available.

Thank you all for the help! Fingers crossed! I would hate to have to quit playing on this site due to this.

See Related Threads:
 
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Might I add that even if they did add a deposit bonus, it must have been small enough for me to not even notice. Which is why I was unaware of the bonus being active.

Also, when cashing out, it said I had zero BTC restrictions locked by bonuses
 

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helpneeded08 said:
Thank you all for the help! Fingers crossed! I would hate to have to quit playing on this site due to this.
Click to expand...
Contact their rep here on the forum, to see if they can help you:
BitStarz

KK
 
Hi guys,

Sorry for the. slow reply and hi @helpneeded08 :)

Any chance you could provide your username you have at BitStarz so I can have a look?

As a side note, the max bet limit is the max bet you can bet when you have an active bonus. We know that not everyone is reading all
terms and conditions for bonuses, which is why we've taken the most important ones and put them next to the bonus overview in the
bonus section of your account.

There, we've listed the percentage match, wagering, max bet, and I believe a couple of other things, just to try to make things a bit more simple. But I'm sure there's more we can do to make it more clear, and I'm happy to hear any other feedback that would prevent things like this in the future.

Anyhow, would be awesome if you could send me your username so I can have a look as to what happened :)

Olle


Edit: As for the point about not selecting a bonus. There's a tick-box, where you indicate that you wish to have a bonus upon next deposit if available. This was also the case 2 weeks ago when you took the same bonus. As for not noticing, it was a 50% bonus you received, which means your balance would be 50% higher than your deposited amount. Everyone's different so I cannot determine if that's noticeable or not for everyone.
 
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Thank you for responding Ollie. My email is *snip* ***
I was definitely unaware of the tick box, if I had known I was using a deposit bonus (which I never ever do on any of the sites because of this exact reason) then I would have read the bonus rules. Unfortunately I was unaware of the tick box and receiving the small deposit bonus. The bonus definitely had no effect on the outcome of where I ended up, and tried cashing out. I do feel a bit taken advantage of and would love to be able to get my funds back.
I have read on some other threads that this has happened before and the users were able to restore their funds. I hope you can help me, if so I will be a long time user of bitstarz. I can also attach any information you may need.

*** [maxd says: personal info removed to protect your privacy, i'll PM Olle these details.]
 
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Hi there,

Thank you for providing the info :) (and thanks Max for censoring and PMing me them).

I'm sorry, but it's no the first time you've been taking this very same bonus. Have you ever reflected over this in the past, or wondered what this Monday Reload bonus was when checking through the bonus history previously? Also, I don't mean to be this guy, but you keep using the word "small" in relation to the bonus. In my honest opinion (and it might just be me), but 50% isn't that small of a bonus. If it was 10% 20%, I would wholeheartedly understand as it would be rather unnoticeable. But 50% is still a large enough one that I'd personally take notice.

If it was the case that you had made one or two bets over the limit, I think it would be rather unfair to enforce any rules here, but you have a couple of hundred bets over the limit :/.

Again, I understand if someone doesn't read through all the rules, but this is one of the terms we've highlighted in many places, including the bonus page on your account where you track your wagering process :/. Again, we've put there the most important terms to try to make it extra clear.

If you have any feedback on where we can put this to make it clearer than this, I'm happy to listen, but sadly, given all the info here, it's hard for me to do much to reverse this.

Olle
 
How are people still getting funds confiscated for going over a max bet rule?

Why can't the system simply not accept bets that breach a max bet rule while a bonus is active.

I do wonder how much casinos make from being able to void all winnings in cases like these I'm guessing enough to make against their interest to prevent it.
 
Hi @toms596,

It's a great idea and we're actually working on that.

We used to have this bet protector thing that didn't allow you to bet over the limit. The reason we had to remove it and re-work it was
due to VIP players not being bound by these terms, and we we're able to segment this limitation based on VIP/NON-VIP.

As much as I can understand what you mean @toms596, I can honestly say it's not in an attempt to trick the player and when the opportunity presents itself, confiscate their funds. It's not a very sustainable approach for a casino. Instead, it would in my opinion be a great way to destroy your reputation for no reason.

I get your point however, and thank you for the suggestion, which is very much in line with what we're working on at the moment :)

Olle
 
I don't take bonuses at all, anywhere, ever. Never have and never will. For this kind of reason.
The sheer list of terms and conditions alone for any bonus puts me off immediately, so I just play with my own money and withdraw when I want.

Feel for you @helpneeded08 but this one is on you for not reading the terms and conditions. You need to be more careful ?
 
Valhalla said:
I don't take bonuses at all, anywhere, ever. Never have and never will. For this kind of reason.
The sheer list of terms and conditions alone for any bonus puts me off immediately, so I just play with my own money and withdraw when I want.

Feel for you @helpneeded08 but this one is on you for not reading the terms and conditions. You need to be more careful ?
Click to expand...
I agree, and the way the have the site set up with a check box apparently somewhere, it auto places the bonus. It was a Monday bonus, and I made my deposit on sunday evening, and I’m assuming time difference it was Monday where they are. When you deposit via btc, the site converts it to mbtc, so when you buy $250usd worth of btc, it’s then converted to mbtc, and apparently this time had a 50% bonus added, so only 125$. It’s hard to know exactly the funds I received with all the conversions. After playing for hours, I tried cashing out $4,000 but because they snuck that bonus on me, and said I was betting too high, which I never even bet that high, they stole all $4000 . It’s a complete strong arm by the casino. They got my best friend with the same tactic, unfortunately he had never told me. Had I lost the money, I’m sure they wouldn’t have reimbursed me for the bet limit
 
toms596 said:
How are people still getting funds confiscated for going over a max bet rule?

Why can't the system simply not accept bets that breach a max bet rule while a bonus is active.

I do wonder how much casinos make from being able to void all winnings in cases like these I'm guessing enough to make against their interest to prevent it.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more, especially when the bonus had zero effect on how much I won on the slots. I would understand if I had to select a bonus, and deposit that way (like my other site) but in this case it auto placed the bonus. It then proceeded to let me spin for 6-7 hours and then take the entirety of what I won when I went to cash out. I deposited $250, they gave a $125 bonus, and then took my $4000 withdrawal. They are getting rich by screwing over their customers. I would have read the “terms and conditions” had I known I took a bonus.
 
toms596 said:
How about offering a bonus @BitStarz so helpneeded08 can try again? Seems like a reasonable solution if you can't pay out his withdrawal
Click to expand...
@BitStarz Or even just paying out 66% of my winnings/cash out. That would be the percentage based off of my money before their bonus money. If I used the bonus money to win, I would completely understand how they handled it. But I didn’t.
I’m surprised they get don’t want to make it right considering all I do is lose, and when I finally do win, I still don’t.
 
helpneeded08 said:
@BitStarz Or even just paying out 66% of my winnings/cash out. That would be the percentage based off of my money before their bonus money. If I used the bonus money to win, I would completely understand how they handled it. But I didn’t.
I’m surprised they get don’t want to make it right considering all I do is lose, and when I finally do win, I still don’t.
Click to expand...
Am I missing something? Didn’t you take the bonus on previous weeks or did you just think you were getting a great exchange for the dollar to bitcoin conversion? Did you read the t&c’s on the other times that you got the bonus?
 
cncas2123 said:
Am I missing something? Didn’t you take the bonus on previous weeks or did you just think you were getting a great exchange for the dollar to bitcoin conversion? Did you read the t&c’s on the other times that you got the bonus?
Click to expand...

I am newer to the online gambling, and I didn’t realize that this site it auto put me into a deposit % bonus, so it added 50% deposit. With the exchange rate from usd to btc to mbtc I was unaware. So I put 250, they matched with 125, and it gave me like 12 mbtc… so you can see how it’s confusing. And I never knew it would put a max bet amount on a slot. I also didn’t feel to be betting much at all. I typically bet .05 to .1 (doesn’t seem like much)
 
sufferinsilence said:
Just giving the original deposit back would be the best solution imo. Confiscating anything else but the winnings doesn't sit right with me.
Click to expand...

The original deposit was left for the player actually. I'm not sure if you saw this @helpneeded08?
 
To sum things up a bit,

I'm sorry about the misunderstanding with the max bet rule @helpneeded08, we'll try to implement some automatic limit preventing players from betting over. Also, in the meantime, if there's anything we can do to make it more clear, please let me know. But yeah, it's mentioned in multiple places, including where you track your wagering progress. We're trying to make it as visible as we can, but nothing is perfect.

If you don't wish to receive deposit bonuses, be sure to untick that box where you toggle if you wish to get a bonus or not on next deposit (if available), and perhaps it might be worth it to pay attention to the deposit and see so it matches the balance ending up in the account. We never give deposit bonuses below 50%, so if your deposit is suddenly 50% higher when you check your balance, it would be due to a bonus almost exclusively.

Olle
 

This is not just a random good idea that you guys have never heard of before. A lot of other casinos don't let you make over limit bets. So I'm sure there's a way that you can easily work this into the programming of the of the casino but you don't want to do that because obviously you guys do benefit from voiding people's winnings . If this was an honest straight up Casino you wouldn't have these opportunities to easily LOSE EVERYTHING built into the casino itself. It would be a lot more honest of you to just acknowledge this fact vs. continually try to constantly evade any responsibility here.
 
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Hi there @Auspicious888,

I'm not sure if you saw what I posted here above. I mentioned that we already had this in place previously, but were unable to segment this limitation based on VIP/NON-VIP, which we wish to do as VIPs don't have this rule. But we're in the midst of fixing it :)

I believe that if you have the intention to last as a casino, you need to provide a good player experience, and this is certainly not one of those. I know that at first glance, it may seem to be the way you describe it, but I also think it's important to put it into context (based on what I wrote above) and look at what we're currently doing to be as open, honest and player friendly as we can be.

In my opinion at least, it's good to look at how a casino operates in general, and then make a judgement call as to if you believe these guys have malicious intent or not in regards to the issue at hand. I'm not saying we're perfect, but we're constantly trying to improve.

Once more, we still have a lot of work to do, I acknowledge that.

Olle
 
Here's why I beg to differ with your Casinos idea of what a level playing field is: I joined as an American player and never tried to cover up my nationality at all spent about $1,100 at the site over the course of a couple of months and the very first thing I did was I uploaded my CA ID to the site. A couple of months into it I asked the cashier if us players were accepted beIcause I had read a post saying that they didn't allow us players. I was told no us players were not accepted I was instantly banned without even giving the opportunity to try and argue and justify what I was doing there and I had no way of getting any of the money that I'd spent at the casino. So first off why was I allowed to sign up second I was accused of concealing my IP in order to play the website both of these were atrocious lies,. That made no sense especially when I had uploaded my ID that the second time I ever played there. Long story short you guys didn't believe anything that I was telling you and I lost about a thousand bucks trying to honestly play your site and when I asked for a refund I was called a liar. It's sickening that you guys make so much money far more than normal business in existence yet are so utterly ruthless when it comes to resolving disputes.
 

Hi there,

I believe your case was already covered here at CasinoMeister via the PAB procedure. We already presented all the information to @maxd if I'm not mistaken, and it was to my knowledge dismissed.

So on the topic of disputes (as you mentioned), I do believe a fair procedure is in order where we both present our side of the story, which was done in this case, right here on CM.

Olle
 
Auspicious888 said:
... I joined as an American player and never tried to cover up my nationality at all ...
Click to expand...
I respectfully suggest that time may have altered your perception of the case. The facts were pretty clear back April '21 when we processed your PAB and they didn't support your "never tried to cover up my nationality" argument. Even less so now that your telling of it has evolved somewhat.

If you're going to attempt to have your case re-tried in public then I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to present the necessary details that supported the decision we made then, namely rejecting your complaint against the casino, and correct some of the errors of omission in your current telling.

The bottom line is that players are responsible now as they always have been for reading and complying with the Terms. Ignorance is no defence nor is the "you should have protected me from breaking the Terms" argument. It is not the casino's responsibility to police players every step along the way, at least not outside the jurisdiction of the UKGC. We all know that there are key moments when information will be asked for and evaluated. If that process reveals Terms violations -- for whatever reason -- then that will be when decisions will have to be made.

- Max
 
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Auspicious888 said:
This is not just a random good idea that you guys have never heard of before. A lot of other casinos don't let you make over limit bets. So I'm sure there's a way that you can easily work this into the programming of the of the casino but you don't want to do that because obviously you guys do benefit from voiding people's winnings . If this was an honest straight up Casino you wouldn't have these opportunities to easily LOSE EVERYTHING built into the casino itself. It would be a lot more honest of you to just acknowledge this fact vs. continually try to constantly evade any responsibility here.
Click to expand...
So it’s the casino responsibility for everything, no need to every read the terms? First thing I do if I took a bonus was always read the terms , two minutes or less , and I then took responsibility for my play.
 
I gotta say I never get it when players say "Yeah, of course I didn't read the Terms. Too long / complicated / boring / wrong language / difficult to read / not enough pictures." FFS, you're putting your money in someone else's hands and are hoping that they'll give it back to you with extras. Would you do that in normal life without asking what the catch was? Some dude knocks on your car window and says "Hey can I borrow your wallet? I'll give it back, I promise." "Oh sure, here you go, enjoy!"

/rant
 
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Maybe make it so you have to input a bonus code/manually click an "apply bonus" button rather than having it automatically apply would reduce incidents like this.

For the OP, sorry man at the end of the day it's on you to check the terms and conditions. They at least gave you back your deposit so just look at it as a free session I guess.
 
maxd said:
The bottom line is that players are responsible now as they always have been for reading and complying with the Terms. Ignorance is no defence nor is the "you should have protected me from breaking the Terms" argument. It is not the casino's responsibility to police players every step along the way, at least not outside the jurisdiction of the UKGC. We all know that there are key moments when information will be asked for and evaluated. If that process reveals Terms violations -- for whatever reason -- then that will be when decisions will have to be made.

- Max
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with most of what you said, in the case of this particular player that was from the US but was not allowed to play at the casino, surely at the point that he uploaded his US identification the account should have been terminated immediately and any funds deposited since the upload refunded? Was the casino ever going to pay out any winnings to this US player?
 
Used to be that by and large, when it came to Welcome Bonuses, T & Cs didn't differ that vastly from casino to casino, as most points were usually succinctly conveyed in about five or six lines, and with Reload Bonuses, usually even less.

Wasn't really until game restrictions kicked in via the gateway that was DOA and its ilk that special adherence had to be paid to the finer print, and punters taught themselves to look out for pitfalls, all in the name of balance preservation.

Yet logic dictates that if one's starting funds have just swelled by 50% without even having pressed 'Spin' in anger that playing with that artificial balance would spell trouble, and in doing so would instantly put one at the mercy of the Terms that were likely skimmed over - so in essence, a bad idea....

Far easier then to immediately contact whatever form of Customer Service they have to hand, and have that restriction removed on the spot, to save a world of hurt. Apportioning the blame on the casino past the fact, smacks of the age-old story of wanting a free ride, no matter how many check boxes were or weren't placed in the player's path. That's just common sense surely?

For all their faults, casinos shouldn't have to be in the business of hand-holding the customer's every action, whether that be registering from a barred location or accepting reloads on a whim. The responsibility lies with both parties?
 


Fair procedures don't ignore evidence to the contrary. You guys chose to ignore blatant facts that back my argument. You also qualified evidence that without the technical expertise to do so, ie. : Claimed I was masking my IP. Still the fact remains, and the point of my entire three posts here is that your Casino could easily implement safeguards to where people don't make over limit bets and or sign up from unrecognized countries, yet you still sit here and try to play dumb like you're looking into this novel concept and you've never heard of this before. All of this posturing is just that: posturing. I bet you won't give us the stats, or disclose the number of accounts and the amounts of money that you've not paid out due to overlimit betting. If this was a real debate this fact would be on the table right now but of course you guys will never disclose those facts.
I bet you guys have a millions of dollars in forfeited money because of over limit betting . Which actually comes down to millions dollars your Casino just saved itself.
From a management perspective that policy is a hell of a lot more lucrative than one which safeguards over limit betting for the player. Period. There's nothing you can say to the argue that either.
Here's a suggestion put all that forfeited money your Casino has collected into a slots tournament and let the players here have a chance to win it. I can hear management laughing at that one right now.
 
It's not handholding it's actually setting up a level playing Field. A programmer can easily place the safeguards within the game to where the player however lackadaisical they become in noticing their balance can never bet over the limit it's as simple as five lines of code . This has nothing to do with anyone holding hands except for maybe you and the Casino. Haha. Any player that's arguing against putting the safeguards in place really needs to question whose side there on right now. Put the safeguards in place it's as simple as that.
 
Auspicious888 said:
It's not handholding it's actually setting up a level playing Field. A programmer can easily place the safeguards within the game to where the player however lackadaisical they become in noticing their balance can never bet over the limit it's as simple as five lines of code . This has nothing to do with anyone holding hands except for maybe you and the Casino. Haha. Any player that's arguing against putting the safeguards in place really needs to question whose side there on right now. Put the safeguards in place it's as simple as that.
Click to expand...
No disrespect to you intended Sir Goatwack, I was just kidding around about the handholding !!
 
Actually this is not a retrial because nothing will be done about it, so don't get your feathers ruffled Max. I was never asking for a retrial. You sure are quick to jump on the casino side here. You should be backing the main point in my entire argument here: safeguards to prevent this sort of thing happening should be in place via programming within the casinos code. That's my main point here. It's one Id think you'd back me up on as fervently as you are trying to discredit me here.
 
interlog said:
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, in the case of this particular player that was from the US but was not allowed to play at the casino, surely at the point that he uploaded his US identification the account should have been terminated immediately and any funds deposited since the upload refunded? Was the casino ever going to pay out any winnings to this US player?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your support and for being the 1st person to see that glaring point and actually comment on it. I was told they don't ever look at the documents we upload until we try to cash out and they were oblivious to the fact that I put my California ID on there.
 
Valhalla said:
I don't take bonuses at all, anywhere, ever. Never have and never will. For this kind of reason.
The sheer list of terms and conditions alone for any bonus puts me off immediately, so I just play with my own money and withdraw when I want.

Feel for you @helpneeded08 but this one is on you for not reading the terms and conditions. You need to be more careful ?
Click to expand...
This is truly good advice , but it's so hard to play with tiny Bank rolls!!! And getting used to that is kind of hard to do! But I agree fully this is the best advice really for everybody here.
 
Auspicious888 said:
Actually this is not a retrial because nothing will be done about it, so don't get your feathers ruffled Max. I was never asking for a retrial. You sure are quick to jump on the casino side here. You should be backing the main point in my entire argument here: safeguards to prevent this sort of thing happening should be in place via programming within the casinos code. That's my main point here. It's one Id think you'd back me up on as fervently as you are trying to discredit me here.
Click to expand...
Well, yes and no. TBH when I was in my early days of doing the Complaints gig here at Casinomeister -- 2008ish -- I was as thoroughly convinced as many players are that casinos obviously can and should implement exactly the kind of safe-guards that you're referring to here, namely software-enforced Max Bet limits and region blocks.

As it happens I took this argument to more than one operator over those early years and slowly became convinced otherwise, at least partially. Now your average reader is going to say "well yeah, of course, you're in cahoots with them" but it's not nearly as simple as that. The fact is that I get paid a flat contract fee for what I do. There are no bonuses and no significant gifts from anyone at any time. In other words I don't have a dog in the race, so to speak, I just do what I do more or less in spite of whatever else is going on with anyone's cash flow, including Casinomeister. It's been that way for 15 years.

So why was I "convinced otherwise"? The short answer is that (historically at least) geo-blocking players created more problems for players and casinos than it solved. Most players travel, many extensively, and they get royally pissed off if they find they can't play while on the road. So that was a pretty decent argument back in the day for not automatically geo-blocking. Of course we're well into the 21st Century now and that discussion could probably use a re-visit. For instance I've heard the idea floated of players having to deliberately turn off auto-geo-blocking which sounds like a promising idea but I admit it's been a while since I've had any serious discussions on the topic.

As to software-enforced Max Bet limits things get a little fuzzier. 10 years ago there was a passingly convincing "it's too complex" argument that one often heard and coming from a software background myself I could at least empathize a little for the issues involved there. But obviously we're in a different age now and I suspect the complexity argument is on rather shakier grounds than it once was, especially since some software providers have already done it, or so I hear. I don't play so I can't pretend to be 100% up-to-date on player-side issues.

And finally to the "discredit me" problem. IMHO you discredited yourself when you failed to mention above that you were consistently VPNing when you were accessing the casino, your IPs were bouncing around (IIRC) between France, Germany, the UK and yes, all over the US. I believe now as I did then that any player who uses a VPN is setting themselves up for the problems that will sooner or later surface: they and they alone are the creator of those problems. So when you said "I did nothing to hide my nationality" I'm sure you can see where there is ample cause to take objection to the way you were now presenting your case.

All of that is pretty much secondary to the problems we've seen here in this thread. IMO if the casino's Terms say "these countries are restricted" then the player needs to act accordingly. Similarly if the Terms say "this is the Max Bet" limit then ditto, it's on the player to act accordingly. Is this ideal and the way it should be? In these specific instances probably not but until the industry evolves a little and provides saner versions of those rules then the Terms in place are the Terms that apply and it's the player's responsibility to comply.

- Max
 
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i remember when i first started playing online about 7 years ago i had sorta same situation,i was new and i didnt really read the small terms and conditions,i took a 100% deposit match i think i put £50 in and got up to about £500 after wagering etc,my withdrawl was pending for 3 to 4 days then i got an email saying i had broke terms etc because i played several spins on DOA,yes my fault i tried to contest it but to no avail,i learned my lesson and moved on yes got my £50 deposit back,so it always pays to read all terms and conditions when playing with a bonus
 
Geeeeze tell me about it I've had the same issue they confinscated 120.00 dollars I was cashing out all because supposedly in overbet however I only ever bet the min! I told them I wanted to play it safe because its hard to understand cryptocurrency, Im new to it however that's why my bet was absolutely the min offered and still somehow I over bet I was gonna report em t I gambling commission!
 
Best way to end all fund seizures and bonus bullshit is to ban bonuses outright. But then i guess the casinos would dial down the RTP to assimilate the ECBR...Expected Casino Bonus Retention. In other words, 80% RTP would be the norm.
 
Olle can you pls add DOA2?
 
helpneeded08 said:
Might I add that even if they did add a deposit bonus, it must have been small enough for me to not even notice. Which is why I was unaware of the bonus being active.

Also, when cashing out, it said I had zero BTC restrictions locked by bonuses
Click to expand...
Same thing happened to me. It said 0 locked by bonus. I still haven't gotten my money
 
jacquelinem said:
I've tried it keeps saying error
Click to expand...
May I suggest you try again. There’s an anti-spam feature in place that — long story short — shouldn’t be a problem for you from this point on.

Regards,

Max Drayman
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Hi again :)

Thank you for providing your email.

Now, I'm a bit confused so maybe you can help me.

I see you don't have any funds in your balance (besides 0.11 dollars worth of BTC), and you don't have any active bonus on your account either :/

I'm also having trouble understanding how the two remarks you made fit together, so maybe you can help me there. "0 locked by bonus" and "haven't gotten my money". Are you having trouble making a withdrawal (although you don't have funds)? Or are you waiting for a withdrawal you haven't received?

But yeah, maybe we can keep this in a PM :)

Olle
 

Just wanted to give everyone an update here.

Been speaking to the player in PMs, and there was some confusion which has been cleared up :)
 


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