Should affiliates reward users with giveaways and bonuses?

[spindoctor99]

There was a post ages ago on the backinamo forum (bandits page) complaining that he gives nothing back to users that signed up with his affiliate code.

A whole bunch of users have used his code and never received anything while he gets money back on our losses. He use to run giveaways years ago but once he turned to all the crypto casino's they all dried up.

Steve replied that if he did give those users a bonus code or something apparently he would get in trouble which to be honest is highly unlikely. I regularly get bonuses from a few streamers who are affiliates.

Apparently 500.casino doesn't let users take off affiliate codes so Steve gets a portion of our losses permanently.

Should affiliates though give something back to users? Or is say the video's he does a form of entertainment/reward.

 

[greylady]

In my opinion, why should they be obliged to give something back? You choose to use an affiliate link, you choose to deposit knowing they have an earned income from your losses, it's your choice so why should the affiliate be held accountable?

...and no I am not an affiliate.

 

[conker]

I think it is fair to say that some do in the form of competitions. Examples being comps at BWB, AskGamblers, Casino Grounds, and of course here at Casinomeister. These can still be revenue generating for the affiliate, but it is a form of giving back.

What you are talking about appears to be something akin to the old rake back model that used to exist in online poker (maybe still does). From what I recall it made a handful of rakeback affiliates very wealthy, but killed the golden goose. Those that weren't in a position to offer it or couldn't do all the admin needed to manage a rakeback setup ultimately lost a lot of traffic and struggled to keep up. There were lots of other problems in the Poker world, namely the complete monopolisation of Pokerstars.

 

[dunover]

There was a post ages ago on the backinamo forum (bandits page) complaining that he gives nothing back to users that signed up with his affiliate code.

A whole bunch of users have used his code and never received anything while he gets money back on our losses. He use to run giveaways years ago but once he turned to all the crypto casino's they all dried up.

Steve replied that if he did give those users a bonus code or something apparently he would get in trouble which to be honest is highly unlikely. I regularly get bonuses from a few streamers who are affiliates.

Apparently 500.casino doesn't let users take off affiliate codes so Steve gets a portion of our losses permanently.

Should affiliates though give something back to users? Or is say the video's he does a form of entertainment/reward.

They're not obliged to give a penny to anyone, when they used to run comps it was usually off their own bat and nothing to do with any particular casino, although back then it did happen sometimes if the affiliate programme had a deal with the streamer. Often they were restricted to users who had made a deposit at a promoted site on behalf of the affiliate.

As a thank-you for channel viewers or engagement the YTer or streamer may decide to run comps. Depends on jurisdiction.

It is actually true that affiliates now have to be very careful under their code of conduct (in the UK) not to over-incentivise. You certainly won't see any particular affiliate group offering new player incentives that are better than their own homepage's standard offer, as was once commonplace so the affiliate could use it as a lever. This is down to strict new marketing/advertising guidelines.

So words with exclamation marks like 'CLAIM NOW!' and other calls to action are long gone if you abide by the rules. The click through (as you can see here on CM) is more gently worded such as 'Engage' or 'See Offer' etc. The same will apply to a YTer if they promote UKGC sites.

So The Bandit is actually playing by the rules, those rules established by the UK gaming industry.

P.S. He could offer a free raffle to his subscribers as that would be a channel-based action and not related to the subscriber actually playing or gambling. As you see, we at CM have free raffles and comps with no purchase necessary. Some of our partners run their own specific comps as you will also have seen, but they are in fact in-house casino promotions for existing or new players.

 

[spindoctor99]

I have a stake account from a affiliate. He has given me $125 straight cash in my account and I didn't even ask for it. To be honest my losses on that account are minimal but he does give quite a bit back to his userbase.

There was a 500.casino customer who was having issues with his account. Bandit was the affiliate. He put a message on backinamo asking for help from Steve and he couldn't be arsed replying or assisting. If anything - that is the type of thing he should be doing. If your making money from losses at the very least you could assist with any problems.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

These low life’s shouldn’t be sending people to crypto casinos anyway. The nonsense some of them spout about being ‘protected’ is utter bollox.

Bandit can’t intervene anyway. He gets paid regardless and doesn’t give a fuck.

Why would he???

 

[lockinlove]

It would be hard for real money streamers. My husband was a decent sized streamer. He did $1 spins mostly 3-4 times a week and it cost $2000 a month to stream because of all the losses. Did it for about 2 years.

So if these streamers are using real money (which most arent) who are doing $5-$10 spins their losses would be $10,000+ a month.

The fake money streamers should do more giveaways but then that is their entire way of income. Stream with fake money and recieve a certain amount of pay/wins from the casino.

A lot of casino will just agree to commission and not pay out any winnings.

My husband knew the same affiliate managers as Roshtein and all those guys and offered him the same deal. 50% commission. Max cashout $500 per stream (if you win) and many of the casino wouldnt let him cash out anything and would only have a 50% commission.

He refused and just did his own thing. Got some commission to help cut the losses and some ok streamer deals with lowered wager.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I have a stake account from a affiliate. He has given me $125 straight cash in my account and I didn't even ask for it. To be honest my losses on that account are minimal but he does give quite a bit back to his userbase.

There was a 500.casino customer who was having issues with his account. Bandit was the affiliate. He put a message on backinamo asking for help from Steve and he couldn't be arsed replying or assisting. If anything - that is the type of thing he should be doing. If your making money from losses at the very least you could assist with any problems.

Unless it’s changed recently (I rarely watch his videos anymore) he claimed he just gets a fee for his videos.

No revenue share or sign up money anyway.

If at any point the casino decides to not pay somebody there is absolutely nothing anybody can do about it.

 

[dunover]

The thing is, a sole trader/single YTer is not going to have the connections and manpower to intervene in player complaints or issues. I did do it a few times twice via my aff manager for the casino in question and once at a conference directly (as a certain Dingle here will confirm ).

Casinomeister is a far bigger entity and is funded and structured to offer a professional top-grade arbitration service.

A streamer does get paid revenue share commission sometimes, but more usually a CPA payment say 100-150 euros/dollars for each new player depositing over a certain minimum within their first week. This though produces a high volume of low-value players so the aff programme often pulls the deal from the affiliate quite rapidly as YT acquisitions are viewed poorly in general.

Personally I do rev share and sometimes 'hybrid' which is both a fixed new player acquisition payment along with ongoing RS.

A deal I was offered involved no affiliate commission but a 5-figure sum (low 5-figs initially) for doing a minimum 10 streams a month along with posting their videos afterwards of at least an hour each. Alas it was for an unlicensed crypto site and I refused.

I cannot publish the proposal contract here obviously but I am willing for another staff member to see it and confirm what I say.

The Bandit likely does just get a fixed amount for each video, probably has to produce 2-3 a week or 10+ a month, which explains his posting frequency, in part at least, although he clearly likes 'a bash' anyway.

But he will be earning RS or hybrid deals from the casinos on his website too, same I do on mine although for UK-facing affs it's a rapidly declining scene compared to pre-2020.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Oh yeah he definitely capitalised at the right time all those years ago.

Must of had it clean off back then……. As a result of his popularity at the time I’m sure he’s having it off again now due to his popularity.

Can’t argue with the fact he‘s done well.

But at the end of the day he makes money by encouraging others to gamble like the rest of them.

It’s the ones that try to sugar coat it by making out they’re doing YOU a favour that I can’t stand. Leaches and parasites. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[maxd]

… Should affiliates though give something back to users? Or is say the video's he does a form of entertainment/reward.

It’s a good question IMO and something we’ve been discussing internally for a while now. We’ve got stuff coming, but we’re part of the machine now so these things don’t move along as quickly as they used to.

I think the bottom line is that the affiliates are under increasing pressure in recent times and there’s no indication that is a temporary thing. How people like us choose to respond to that pressure, and what measures we take to alleviate it, will I think play no small role in who is still here to have this conversation in one, two, five years.

- Max

 

[dunover]

Oh yeah he definitely capitalised at the right time all those years ago.
It’s the ones that try to sugar coat it by making out they’re doing YOU a favour that I can’t stand. Leaches and parasites. Nothing more and nothing less.

What about Google who are paid for ads by gambling companies? Or the red top newspapers in the UK that are huge affiliates themselves? The TV stations that take ads and sponsorship from the same companies? Football clubs?

The fact is that there is a big pool of advertising money sloshing around within the industry and as long as rules are followed, what does it really matter if individuals earn their share as well as the aforementioned?

I think the underlying psychology here is that people can't really focus their ire as effectively on large organizations, whereas an individual is far simpler to like or hate on, more relatable to the public.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Completely agree Dazza, but I was referring more to what the majority of the YouTube lot are focussing on…….. Directing people to sites that shouldn’t even be accepting UK players. Sites that can give you the v sign anytime they want when it comes to paying said people out.

While football clubs do have offshore casinos branded on their shirts, the other methods u refer to from uk based companies so indeed try and direct to UKGC sites at least.

You will obviously see it from the affiliate side.

You have spent many years trying to get money off people from gambling. Whether it be selling shitty fruit machine guides, faded out tape recordings of u gettimg urself barred from arcades for playing MAB chip bar x’s (not fully correctly I might add) or illegal to use devices to defraud fruit machines right up to the present times whereby recently you had 100 different affiliate clicks on ur own personal website. The majority of which were terrible places to play. Well done on cutting them in half by the way.

Gambling is shoved down people’s throats non stop, radio, tv, newspapers, magazines, online and god knows what else.

Everybody wants a slice and some don’t care how they get it.