SlotsMillion SOW (Extrodinarily In-Depth) Request

[Smithyy]

So this morning (after a long night of playing, and losing no doubt ) I logged into my account to see a red banner, stating that - money laundering regulations etc etc - I needed to provide proof of where my income comes from etc.

I have complete faith in SlotsMillion - have played there for many months without any issues (and when there are problems they're dealt with incredibly quickly and professionaly) - but after today I seriously contemplate whether I'll be playing there again.

So, saw the SOW request - went straight onto Live Chat and explained, I work for myself - I'm self-employed, but haven't been for all that long, so I don't have years of tax returns, etc to show them. (I am also a sole trader so no chance of showing dividend payments, as I don't operate under a Limited Company.)

I explained that my income is generally paid into my bank account, and my PayPal. I'm essentially a freelancer - so the date of payments, or amount, is virtually impossible to predict. Once week I may recieve payment from one client, the next, it could be 4 or 5.

Explained all of this, and they were OK with it, said to send over a Bank Statement, and screengrabs of my PayPal stats (payments in, out etc.)

I was then informed the Bank statement wasn't accepted, because "it doesn't justify the money I spend". Not entirely sure what they mean here, but fair enough. Went back to chat, told them this was exactly WHY I got in touch before submitting anything, because I needed to explain that I'm not just getting a payslip each month.

So I then provided them 3 months worth of PayPal transactions (and this is already way more information than I feel comfortable to give out)

Well, one person from the finance department said PayPal docs are fine - another said they don't accept them, because "we don't accept it as a payment method at our site."

And long story short, I've spent just over 6 hours on live chat waiting for replies, getting contradictory guidance - and an hour or so ago it turns out the PayPal statement WAS accepted (but only as a method of showing my SOW.)

It was, again rejected, because:

"I just received an reply from the finance department ans ad we know you have withdrawals at Paypal account, we don't know where the withdrawals go and this information is required.

We also need to know what is the income for you (for example monthly), just to know if it matches with the account.

If you show your income of for example March and April and it matches, please provide us all details possible."

So, what the hell do they want from me? I've already shown them every single client who's paid me. Which is, already IMO far above what I should be obligated to share. Now, they presumably want to match every payment I recieved on PayPal, with every withdrawal I made from PayPal, to my bank account - and HOPE that my deposits at the casino match up?

I completely understand they are being cautious. I get that. But I wasn't even alerted of the SOW thing, it was by chance when I logged in - and they even asked me to show them contracts and conversations I've signed/had with clients, showing I have a regular income!

Is this me being OTT or is this frankly ridiclous, as I believe it is.

I have nothing but respect for the whole SlotsMillion team, and think they are such a stand-up casino, I play nowhere else - but this has made me lose so much faith in them, along with 6, almost 6 1/2 hours of non-stop chat, email, etc - to no resolve!

 

[aceking123]

i feel for you i would be in the same boat , im self employed i get paid when i finish the jobs , i can not be paid for upto around one month , again this is not going to sit well with what they are requiring , i've already had to closed accounts due to this & me not sending in proof , i just cannot get my head around it yet. after what you've been put through i doubt im going to bother either , seems they are clearly not sure what they require hence all the questions , nothing is clear cut, maybe time to try a new casino)

 

[Smithyy]

i feel for you i would be in the same boat , im self employed i get paid when i finish the jobs , i can not be paid for upto around one month , again this is not going to sit well with what they are requiring , i've already had to closed accounts due to this & me not sending in proof , i just cannot get my head around it yet. after what you've been put through i doubt im going to bother either , seems they are clearly not sure what they require hence all the questions , nothing is clear cut, maybe time to try a new casino)

Thing is, I feel for all the CS staff - apparetnly it's the first day it's been implemented, and they clearly don't know the ins and outs of the SOW stuff yet - but it's completely up in arms, and I thought I was pretty good with the level of stuff I sent? I know very few other self employed people who'd be happy submitting the same levels of info!

 

[aceking123]

yep i have a issue with this , i can understand certain points , but in regards to what i make/earn, i cannot recall how long ago this was required other than a mortgage or credit i was applying for & i haven't done this in many many years, as i dont require it , seems you have been very good about it , give them a few days see what happens.

 

[dionysus]

"I just received an reply from the finance department ans ad we know you have withdrawals at Paypal account, we don't know where the withdrawals go and this information is required.

WTH does it matter where it goes, as long as I have it?
I'm sure as hell not declaring to ANYone how and where I spend my $ and on what - that's my concern. It should only matter I've the funds to justify my deposits.
I feel for everyone going through this, because personally, while I 'might' be ok showing I've funds to justify my deposits, I'm not going to be sharing with any 3rd parties my personal spending habits.

Anyway, that being said, have you reached out to the rep here in the forum to help you with this?

 

[BillyGoldblum]

A night of slots no longer becomes fun anymore when the casinos and commissions think they have a right to your private and personal income.

I love slots. But send me one request like this and the account will go instantly dormant. And if all casinos ended up doing this it would be goodbye online.

 

[goatwack]

And so it begins.....

Further proof of who is allowed to gamble or not.

"We also need to know what is the income for you (for example monthly), just to know if it matches with the account."

They have an idea of your spending habits and anything outside of that gets flagged I take it.

And why the need to send in months' worth of payslips? Far easier for the UKGC & co to set out one universal rule of what is required, rather than watch casinos run around in a panic making ridiculous demands. This is getting tiresome, and it's only just begun

 

[dillfly2000]

It's it funny because if they offer an affiliate program they should Understand your situation. Most affiliates use prepaid or epayment methods in many forms. If I had to deal with what your dealing with, I'd drop them. Not worth your sanity.

It sounds like you have a few support staff that aren't communicating with eachother. One person says it's good where the other says it's not. Yeah not worth it. There's plenty of casinos that do a better job at managing this stuff.

 

[dunover]

What annoys me about this is 'turnover'. I spent net about 20k last year but my withdrawals were like 50k+ and deposits about 70k. Obviously on a rolling basis without withdrawing I couldn't (or certainly wouldn't have!) deposited so much. I have a budget of a few hundred a week net so really should just be able to account for that, without having to explain wins and withdrawals make up about 80% of my deposits.

 

[goatwack]

A grey area that they haven't bothered looking in to, I'm sure there are many who'd use previous winnings as a deposit method, far in excess of their actual income. Yet I can imagine that being flagged as suspicious straight away

 

[dionysus]

Easily. If I pulled out a 2K WD, I asure as heck otherwise couldnt afford to gamble 2K on my budget, but 'free money' (casino wins) changes the scale of what I can afford to gamble that month.

 

[goatwack]

So I take it they're attempting to eliminate certain groups from gambling altogether by using this criteria, such as, I don't know, the unemployed. With self- employed not far behind

 

[dunover]

So I take it they're attempting to eliminate certain groups from gambling altogether by using this criteria, such as, I don't know, the unemployed. With self- employed not far behind

WOT?? No slotting on benefits??? Can't pawn the mobility scooter any more?

 

[Charlotte]

Hello zonalkman,

I sent you a PM about that matter, hoping we can sort this out.

Regards

 

[goatwack]

WOT?? No slotting on benefits??? Can't pawn the mobility scooter any more?

No more SOW on JSA or ESA.

Just endless JK!

 

[dionysus]

tbf there's nothing intrinsically wrong with gambling on benefits if your bills are paid - even guys stuck at home need fun and have an entertainment allocation.

 

[lockinlove]

So if a rich family member dies and leaves someone a fortune, players need to provide a will to casinos?

This is pathetic and whoever is making these decisions at the gaming commission is being given way too much leniency. Surely this cant be a group decision because there cant be that many stupid people in a profession such as that?

Its sad to see people love slots more than their own privacy and are caving to these demands just to play their favorite games.

 

[Smithyy]

Charlotte has sent me a PM, and hopefully we are on our way to getting this sorted. The big issue I have, is all day, the ONLY thing I have been wanting to know, is what exactly I needed to send and provide. And everytime a document was rejected, I would ask again, only to be sent the same cookie-cutter response from CS. They actually blocked me on the live chat because I continued asking, because they didn't give any answers!

I have complete confidence that Slots Million will make this right, quickly - they always do - but I am hacked off with today, especially when Charlotte was able to give me answers that - I tried in vain - to get for the last 4 or 4 hours!

Will keep this updated!

 

[dionysus]

So if a rich family member dies and leaves someone a fortune, players need to provide a will to casinos?

This is pathetic and whoever is making these decisions at the gaming commission is being given way too much leniency. Surely this cant be a group decision because there cant be that many stupid people in a profession such as that?

Its sad to see people love slots more than their own privacy and are caving to these demands just to play their favorite games.

lol ya, I saw one post where they DO actually state any inheritances etc....sad.
But I'm with you - I'll hit the B and M before I fork over my financial info (at least to the degree Ive seen asked)

 

[Smithyy]

lol ya, I saw one post where they DO actually state any inheritances etc....sad.
But I'm with you - I'll hit the B and M before I fork over my financial info (at least to the degree Ive seen asked)

In case you were wondering what SM accept

 

[goatwack]

tbf there's nothing intrinsically wrong with gambling on benefits if your bills are paid - even guys stuck at home need fun and have an entertainment allocation.

Well yes you'd think so. Up until our life guardians err sorry the UKGC deemed who is/ isn't fit to gamble

Not aided by the fact by their scaring the crap out of casinos by fining wrongdoers millions

 

[lockinlove]

View attachment 90336

In case you were wondering what SM accept

They forgot the fingerprint section and DNA sample.

I dont think we (Canada) will get these requests because we dont fall under the UKGC, I had a casino request this last week and I responded with

"I will provide you with absolutely nothing of the sort, please close my account" And their response was "After further review we see you are from Canada where the UKGC policies do not apply so we no longer need this information"

So either thats true or they see I get a little too much wine in me on a Friday night and like what they see with my betting patterns

 

[slotter999]

In case you were wondering what SM accept

What an absolute nightmare. The crazy thing is you can take out mortgages with less documentation than you've already provided.

Many people have said it already but it's worth saying it again but this SOW rubbish is just the next phase of the casinos doing what they can to be disruptive to players. And they'll say at every step of the way the UKGC made them do it and there are severe penalties blah blah and yet nobody can ever point us at the legislation which says it is so....we are told to accept their word for it....just like how we were told that their terms and conditions were fair when in fact the CMA found them to be broadly illegal. Deep breaths. Count to ten.....

 

[slotter999]

They forgot the fingerprint section and DNA sample.

I dont think we (Canada) will get these requests because we dont fall under the UKGC, I had a casino request this last week and I responded with

"I will provide you with absolutely nothing of the sort, please close my account" And their response was "After further review we see you are from Canada where the UKGC policies do not apply so we no longer need this information"

So either thats true or they see I get a little too much wine in me on a Friday night and like what they see with my betting patterns

It's great when you're in a position of not giving a shit. I was having a bit of an email exchange with a casino I thought were being unreasonable about something. They assumed I'd go week at the knees for a £100 which I told them to shove and close my account and genuinely couldn't care less. Lo and behold...the next day the VIP person contacted me and told me it was all a misunderstanding and gave me a 1K bonus.

Now suppose you're sat on waiting for a 5K cash out.... they've got you :-(

 

[bowki]

I always thought we germans are the biggest bureaucrats and the world champions of making things as complicated and undworldly as possible.

But after reading all the stuff about the ukgc in the last years i get the feeling you brits want to take that title. But wait until some politicans come up with the idea to make a GGC. We will take that title back

 

[slotter999]

I always thought we germans are the biggest bureaucrats and the world champions of making things as complicated and undworldly as possible.

But after reading all the stuff about the ukgc in the last years i get the feeling you brits want to take that title. But wait until some politicans come up with the idea to make a GGC. We will take that title back

It's the casinos interpretation of those rules and not necessarily the rules themselves. Basically casinos were found in some extreme cases to be taking hundreds of thousands of pounds from people who had actually stolen / embezzled the money.

This is what triggered this. They are not interested in people depositing 1K a month.

@zonalkman - would it be too personal to ask what sums triggered this set of events?

 

[Smithyy]

It's the casinos interpretation of those rules and not necessarily the rules themselves. Basically casinos were found in some extreme cases to be taking hundreds of thousands of pounds from people who had actually stolen / embezzled the money.

This is what triggered this. They are not interested in people depositing 1K a month.

@zonalkman - would it be too personal to ask what sums triggered this set of events?

My gameplay didn't change in the slighest. I spend, on average, about £1,000/week - which I budget for, and can afford to lose (of course winning is nice ) - but there was nothing out of the ordinary. It was just a few £100 deposits, as normal. The customer service rep I spoke to earlier did mention today is the first day they've started doing it, so who knows whether it'll roll out to the majority of players or not

 

[colinsunderland]

View attachment 90336

In case you were wondering what SM accept

What a load of rubbish, that looks like they have copied and pasted the list from videoslots ridiculous list of acceptable proof.

@Charlotte where paypal payments go to has nothing to do with you, and from what the OP states in the first post, then you are going well over the top in your requests. I can get a mortgage with less information than you want.

I have money in my account from my mams estate, she died 7 years ago, do you really think I have the probate documents now? I also have money in my account from a house sale over 10 years ago, I don't have any proof of that, will you pay for people's solicitors appointments and letters that you are requesting?

Are these source of wealth requests being requested under the anti money laundering laws or responsible gaming rules?

 

[colinsunderland]

Now suppose you're sat on waiting for a 5K cash out.... they've got you :-(

They still have to pay you, just when is the question, with RG it should be straight away and close your account if you don't give them the details.

 

[goatwack]

The rules are so vague that these requests could be for either Responsible Gambling or Anti Money Laundering. In fact it seems no one knows for sure anymore and they've merged into the same thing

 

[slotter999]

They still have to pay you, just when is the question, with RG it should be straight away and close your account if you don't give them the details.

What they are meant to do and what will actually happen are very different things. I would say it's highly likely sooner or later we hear of a case of winnings being withheld for SOW reasons. And once it starts they'll keep coming. Can I get all wise and say...."mark my words"....

 

[colinsunderland]

The rules are so vague that these requests could be for either Responsible Gambling or Anti Money Laundering. In fact it seems no one knows for sure anymore and they've merged into the same thing

Except that is specifically not allowed which is why its always a good idea to ask the reason why its being requested.

 

[Smithyy]

Except that is specifically not allowed which is why its always a good idea to ask the reason why its being requested.

The message I get when I log into my account, is:

" In order to comply with Anti Money-Laundering directives, we have to verify the source of the funds you used to deposit on our casino. This is a standard procedure, during which your account will be paused (no deposit or gaming allowed) until you provide the required proof of source of funds."

 

[goatwack]

Except that is specifically not allowed which is why its always a good idea to ask the reason why its being requested.

Well....

It'd be even worse if they gave the reason. Providing proof of income sorry 'Source of Wealth' could be used as a pretext for either checking if I can afford to gamble based on my finances, or used to detect anything fishy in regards to activities in my bank account.

Problem with singling out either reason for a request would entail that I have a secret gambling problem that they can moderate, or that I'm using their casino to wash money. It's all a little bit accusatory

 

[colinsunderland]

The message I get when I log into my account, is:

" In order to comply with Anti Money-Laundering directives, we have to verify the source of the funds you used to deposit on our casino. This is a standard procedure, during which your account will be paused (no deposit or gaming allowed) until you provide the required proof of source of funds."

In which case they MUST have classed you as being at a high risk of being involved in criminal activity
They aren't allowed to blanket request these from people.

 

[Smithyy]

In which case they MUST have classed you as being at a high risk of being involved in criminal activity
They aren't allowed to blanket request these from people.

I mean, I added a new card about a week ago, although it was verified, and had a withdrawal of 1k paid no probs - so not really sure what I did wrong. From what Charlotte, and the other live chat people said today though, it sounded like quite a few accounts were going through it too - although that could just be a stall tactic to delay processing the doc while the old bill prepare for the raid!

Jokes aside, Charlotte has said she's on the case, and it looks to be heading in a positive direction, so will update this tomorrow morning!

 

[bebo67]

So this morning (after a long night of playing, and losing no doubt ) I logged into my account to see a red banner, stating that - money laundering regulations etc etc - I needed to provide proof of where my income comes from etc.

I have complete faith in SlotsMillion - have played there for many months without any issues (and when there are problems they're dealt with incredibly quickly and professionaly) - but after today I seriously contemplate whether I'll be playing there again.

So, saw the SOW request - went straight onto Live Chat and explained, I work for myself - I'm self-employed, but haven't been for all that long, so I don't have years of tax returns, etc to show them. (I am also a sole trader so no chance of showing dividend payments, as I don't operate under a Limited Company.)

I explained that my income is generally paid into my bank account, and my PayPal. I'm essentially a freelancer - so the date of payments, or amount, is virtually impossible to predict. Once week I may recieve payment from one client, the next, it could be 4 or 5.

Explained all of this, and they were OK with it, said to send over a Bank Statement, and screengrabs of my PayPal stats (payments in, out etc.)

I was then informed the Bank statement wasn't accepted, because "it doesn't justify the money I spend". Not entirely sure what they mean here, but fair enough. Went back to chat, told them this was exactly WHY I got in touch before submitting anything, because I needed to explain that I'm not just getting a payslip each month.

So I then provided them 3 months worth of PayPal transactions (and this is already way more information than I feel comfortable to give out)

Well, one person from the finance department said PayPal docs are fine - another said they don't accept them, because "we don't accept it as a payment method at our site."

And long story short, I've spent just over 6 hours on live chat waiting for replies, getting contradictory guidance - and an hour or so ago it turns out the PayPal statement WAS accepted (but only as a method of showing my SOW.)

It was, again rejected, because:

"I just received an reply from the finance department ans ad we know you have withdrawals at Paypal account, we don't know where the withdrawals go and this information is required.

We also need to know what is the income for you (for example monthly), just to know if it matches with the account.

If you show your income of for example March and April and it matches, please provide us all details possible."

So, what the hell do they want from me? I've already shown them every single client who's paid me. Which is, already IMO far above what I should be obligated to share. Now, they presumably want to match every payment I recieved on PayPal, with every withdrawal I made from PayPal, to my bank account - and HOPE that my deposits at the casino match up?

I completely understand they are being cautious. I get that. But I wasn't even alerted of the SOW thing, it was by chance when I logged in - and they even asked me to show them contracts and conversations I've signed/had with clients, showing I have a regular income!

Is this me being OTT or is this frankly ridiclous, as I believe it is.

I have nothing but respect for the whole SlotsMillion team, and think they are such a stand-up casino, I play nowhere else - but this has made me lose so much faith in them, along with 6, almost 6 1/2 hours of non-stop chat, email, etc - to no resolve!

Contracts should NEVER be used as proof of anything outside of court. They have secondary names and signatures on them.

 

[colinsunderland]

Contracts should NEVER be used as proof of anything outside of court. They have secondary names and signatures on them.

Completely agree, and this is something I have a major issue with under AML's. I wouldn't be happy if I found out a business I was dealing with, was passing details of my payments to some unrelated third party offshore casino without my permission. In fact I am sure it would be a breach of the contract. Thats the reason I've said I will not supply any casino with SOW requests. Especially being an affiliate, thats telling competitors how much business you are sending to other programs. One of the casinos I spoke to has it specifically in the contract that payment information must not be shared with third parties, when I pointed that out to them, they said they were having a meeting on what I have brought up and would come back to me in 2-3 days, that was around 4 months ago and I'm still waiting. I have told 3 outright they aren't getting it, so if they ask they can go and sing for it.

 

[bebo67]

Completely agree, and this is something I have a major issue with under AML's. I wouldn't be happy if I found out a business I was dealing with, was passing details of my payments to some unrelated third party offshore casino without my permission. In fact I am sure it would be a breach of the contract. Thats the reason I've said I will not supply any casino with SOW requests. Especially being an affiliate, thats telling competitors how much business you are sending to other programs. One of the casinos I spoke to has it specifically in the contract that payment information must not be shared with third parties, when I pointed that out to them, they said they were having a meeting on what I have brought up and would come back to me in 2-3 days, that was around 4 months ago and I'm still waiting. I have told 3 outright they aren't getting it, so if they ask they can go and sing for it.

I deal with contracts a few times a month, and trust me it's a good way to get sued. Not that I have ever breached one.

 

[Smithyy]

As promised, an update.

After Charlotte got involved it was a relatively straight-forward process - although I still had to submit another 6 months worth of bank statements, which is very intrusive.

Anyway, it is all sorted now, thanks Charlotte.

 

[Charlotte]

Thank you for your patience and your cooperation in this. The process was clearly stressing and time consuming for you and once again I apologize. We already debriefed it with the agents of both Fraud and CS departments and we'll make the process a bit smoother from there - I already took note that the email communication is not the most appropriate so we'll adapt that.

Regarding all the posts of this thread, I'm sorry I won't be able to reply anytime soon, I will post an answer and some explanations and documentation next week to hopefully clarify a little bit the duty we have as a casino operator, our obligations and the policy we decided to apply to enforce the AML directive as well as why etc. Which might or might not lead to further discussion.

Regards

 

[BillyGoldblum]