UKGC vs UK Gambling - "New rules boosting safety and consumer choice"

[jasonuk]

Announced by the UKGC yesterday (1st May 2024) -

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Thanks to @L&L-Jan for sharing in this thread.

In short:

• Light touch financial checks - uses publicly available data (e.g. credit check), but interestingly not postcode or job title. Codifies the existing situation at £500pm from 30 August 2024, reducing to £150pm from 28 February 2025.
• Pilot of "frictionless financial risk assessments" (higher limits) - no further details currently.
• Non-slots are getting the same treatment from 17 January 2025 - no turbo, no slam stops, no autoplay, removal of "celebrations" for micro-wins (up to stake returned), no multi-table features, and 5 second minimum play time (excluding peer-to-peer poker)
• Opt-in marketing for online gambling from 17 January 2025.
• Updated age verification and personal license rules.

 

[satchnz]

Official quote from the UKGC - “We haven’t F’ed up the UK gambling industry enough so let’s F it up some more!”

 

[Reelsoffun]

Crypto casinos must be loving all this stupidity, I now know of half a dozen gamblers that said they would NEVER move to crypto but are now nothing but crypto, it’s bordering on total prohibition for the UK now, and we all know how that ended.

 

[jasonuk]

I do think codifying the paperwork game is important - if this finally stops operators doing nefarious source of funds checks for people who deposited £20 and won big, that'll be a positive step.

The big question mark is what happens with the higher limits pilot and where that ends up. If the limits are too high then it's a lot of overhead for nothing, if the limits are too low then it causes a further exodus of players to the high seas.

The biggest concern has to be the non-slots changes... as we've noted extensively, the slot version was botched spectacularly, swathes of games were withdrawn from the UK market rather than patched, and a mountain of games that still don't play correctly years later even though they were largely in compliance anyway.

... and don't get me started on auto-play!

 

[Jono777]

Could you expand on the 500pm drop to 150 pm please, what is that change in relation to?

 

[slot_zombie]

From the announcement, it looks like if you deposit more than £150 in a month after the pilot scheme (set at £500 per month) you'll be soft credit checked. Any bad credit history or excessive debt will possibly result in the gambler being kicked to the kerb but I can't see the consequences explicitly mentioned anywhere.

 

[slot_zombie]

Crypto casinos must be loving all this stupidity, I now know of half a dozen gamblers that said they would NEVER move to crypto but are now nothing but crypto, it’s bordering on total prohibition for the UK now, and we all know how that ended.

Oh yes and a couple of Cryptos are introducing UK horse racing soon, which is the one missing bet option they had in their Sportsbooks.

Lucky timing, coincidence or good planning?

 

[jasonuk]

From the announcement, it looks like if you deposit more than £150 in a month after the pilot scheme (set at £500 per month) you'll be soft credit checked. Any bad credit history or excessive debt will possibly result in the gambler being kicked to the kerb but I can't see the consequences explicitly mentioned anywhere.

Pretty much - they've been piloting the (soft) credit check stuff in recent months, and now they're going to formalise it - starting with a net deposit limit of £500 per month from August 2024, and reducing it to their target £150 per month from February 2025.

Oh yes and a couple of Cryptos are introducing UK horse racing soon, which is the one missing bet option they had in their Sportsbooks.

Good timing, coincidence or good planning?

I don't follow crypto too closely, but the one thing I'm surprised I haven't seen yet is a successful betting exchange - a few have tried but made the rookie mistake of technology first, liquidity second (and then learned the hard way when they can't build liquidity on their platform).

Given how many UK online bookmakers and even on-course bookmakers are tracking Betfair Exchange prices with much bigger margins, maybe that's an avenue for the crypto sportsbooks as well.

 

[slot_zombie]

I agree a truly decentralised and anonymous P2P betting exchange would be an absolute banger for all concerned, not least the owners.

And all the avid UK racegoers who now suddenly can't get a bet on.

 

[YouTubeSlots]

removal of "celebrations" for micro-wins

^ This was the only positive thing to come out of there new rules.

 

[bamberfishcake]

So, the UK Govt is polluting my land with raw sewage, raising my taxes while cutting back on my public services, sowing the seeds of mental health issues and gender ideology into my kids, sending billions to far off lands which have no concern for my own, running my free healthcare into the gutter on a mission to privatise services and make even more money, (the list goes on) - yet, they want to limit my spending?!

Gotta give it to em', they've got some front ?

I have an idea, lets give em' another term. Everyone makes mistakes, right?

p.s. I realise gender ideology and mental health issues hopefully wont cost me any money, at least for a few years, but its been the topic of the day for me and it just blurted out

 

[Jono777]

From the announcement, it looks like if you deposit more than £150 in a month after the pilot scheme (set at £500 per month) you'll be soft credit checked. Any bad credit history or excessive debt will possibly result in the gambler being kicked to the kerb but I can't see the consequences explicitly mentioned anywhere.

Cheers.

According to my emails and credit reports(s) I have been soft checked numerous times already.

I do not have any outstanding debt, loans or credit cards, all bills are paid on time and up to date. This being said, my overall score ain't great due to things which happened years ago (10+ easily) 750+ with Experian and for some reason about a low 300 with Clear Score but no mention of debts or defaults on either for years.

With this in mind do you think I'll be ok under these new regulations, I don't deposit anywhere near 500pcm but may occasional slightly exceed the 150, especially if the wife has a win and sends me some extra dosh lol

 

[Mr_Slot5]

That’d be 70% of the population shafted then as most people are up to their eyeballs in credit these days! It’s the only reason the economy is functioning!

 

[Jono777]

That’d be 70% of the population shafted then as most people are up to their eyeballs in credit these days! It’s the only reason the economy is functioning!

Very good point mate.

I get emails almost daily offering various credit cards and loans.

However "been there, done that" paid em all off and learnt my lesson

Yes I struggle a bit as most do from time to time but not going down that road again.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I do not have any outstanding debt, loans or credit cards, all bills are paid on time and up to date.

Ok fancy pants, nobody likes a show-off ?

 

[bamberfishcake]

I do not have any outstanding debt, loans or credit cards, all bills are paid on time and up to date.

Ok fancy pants, nobody likes a show-off ?

 

[Jono777]

So good, I had to laugh twice

May have no debt, but also no pot to piss in

Long time, hope you're well mate

 

[TheAddict]

Bamb. I know what you mean, they really should leave the kids alone. But they will never do that. The shit that goes on behind classroom doors is frightening, some of the stories I've read and the pictures I've unfortunately seen of classrooms, well, I wouldn't send my child to a public school if I had one, no sir.
Just make sure your kids go with their gut feeling, and, show them this (below) if they ars still unsure of how to think due to the bombardment of nose peirced pink haired teachers forcing such bullshit down their throats behind closed doors

 

[Reelsoffun]

Cheers.

According to my emails and credit reports(s) I have been soft checked numerous times already.

I do not have any outstanding debt, loans or credit cards, all bills are paid on time and up to date. This being said, my overall score ain't great due to things which happened years ago (10+ easily) 750+ with Experian and for some reason about a low 300 with Clear Score but no mention of debts or defaults on either for years.

With this in mind do you think I'll be ok under these new regulations, I don't deposit anywhere near 500pcm but may occasional slightly exceed the 150, especially if the wife has a win and sends me some extra dosh lol

Some of the reason for a low ish score is the fact you dont have any debt, if you want to improve it just use a CC a little each month but pay off in full and your score will improve.

Also credit should really only factor on the last 6/7 years apart from major things like bankruptcy so anything 10+ years ago should really not be affecting you.

Strangely my Clear Score is also my lowest of the three scores at 814 (999 Experian) so maybe Clear Score is the hardest to score top on

 

[Jono777]

Just checked and 749/999 with Experian (which I believe is one of the major ones used by companies to check us out)

May try a CC with a very low limit and take your advice.

Cheers for the reply

 

[dealer wins]

Announced by the UKGC yesterday (1st May 2024) -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Thanks to @L&L-Jan for sharing in this thread.

In short:

• Light touch financial checks - uses publicly available data (e.g. credit check), but interestingly not postcode or job title. Codifies the existing situation at £500pm from 30 August 2024, reducing to £150pm from 28 February 2025.
• Pilot of "frictionless financial risk assessments" (higher limits) - no further details currently.
• Non-slots are getting the same treatment from 17 January 2025 - no turbo, no slam stops, no autoplay, removal of "celebrations" for micro-wins (up to stake returned), no multi-table features, and 5 second minimum play time (excluding peer-to-peer poker)
• Opt-in marketing for online gambling from 17 January 2025.
• Updated age verification and personal license rules.

And at the "unregulated" casino I play at none of that bollocks, instant payouts and 96% RTP slots.

Honestly if you want an enjoyable and BS free gambling experience, go unregulated IMO.

 

[dealer wins]

So, the UK Govt is polluting my land with raw sewage, raising my taxes while cutting back on my public services, sowing the seeds of mental health issues and gender ideology into my kids, sending billions to far off lands which have no concern for my own, running my free healthcare into the gutter on a mission to privatise services and make even more money, (the list goes on) - yet, they want to limit my spending?!

Gotta give it to em', they've got some front ?

I have an idea, lets give em' another term. Everyone makes mistakes, right?

p.s. I realise gender ideology and mental health issues hopefully wont cost me any money, at least for a few years, but its been the topic of the day for me and it just blurted out

Can I nominate this for post of the year!

 

[Reelsoffun]

Just checked and 749/999 with Experian (which I believe is one of the major ones used by companies to check us out)

May try a CC with a very low limit and take your advice.

Cheers for the reply

Yeah only do it if its something you can be strict with, don't go using it to run up what you can't afford. Set up a DD if you can to pay off in full each month is the easiest way so no fees and some give you cash back too! If you want low limits you wouldn't want my highest one its limit is 13k rofl

Which does beg the question if I have a 13k limit on just one of my CC's why does the UKGC feel they can restrict me to 500 a month and ultimately 150 month moving forward?

Surely they can't expect to treat everyone the same, its just not going to work. So someone with a 1k limit going to be treated the same as someone with 20k limit?

Like everything lately just don't make any sence!

 

[Jono777]

And at the "unregulated" casino I play at none of that bollocks, instant payouts and 96% RTP slots.

Honestly if you want an enjoyable and BS free gambling experience, go unregulated IMO.

That day may well come.

Trouble is I need BS free but not Crypto as it baffles me beyond baffledness, For now, don't think such a place exists, does it?

 

[dealer wins]

That day may well come.

Trouble is I need BS free but not Crypto as it baffles me beyond baffledness, For now, don't think such a place exists, does it?

My BS free casino/sportsbook/BF exchange operates in Euros

Been using it since Pinnacle Sports withdrew from the UK, Zero issues have had decent 5 figure withdrawals even during the covid bollocks no issues. My agent is Premium Trandings.

But I accept using any sportsbook/casino especially offshore/off grid ones carry a risk/high risk, and I dont carry any balance that worst case scenario I would lose.

I would rather risk £20K with a company that gives me no BS than £1 with a SOW company.

 

[09237653]

150 a month? can do that in a day even as a minimum stake player.

 

[Jono777]

150 a month? can do that in a day even as a minimum stake player.

So kind of fits perfectly with their other useless and absurd decisions and rules

 

[TheAddict]

It's ok guys. btg released that 1p minimum stake game to cater to UK bonanza addicts who are worried they will now not get enough time in their life to witness their peice of potential.

 

[jasonuk]

150 a month? can do that in a day even as a minimum stake player.

I don't think that's unreasonable for a soft credit check though - when recent surveys suggest a third of the adult population have less than £1000 in savings. As long as your credit rating hasn't been trashed then you would hope there is little friction, and if it has then the questions are understandable. It's the lowest level check and intended to be minimal, the higher limits will be where the traditional paperwork chases come in - although those will be adjusted after the review period.

Alternatively, do a Boris Becker and be a bankrupt celebrity promoting poker sites - no conflict of interest there, nope, no-sir, none at all...

I'm sure many people would prefer no checks at all, but even if the UKGC didn't implement them, other regulations like AML would. The big win here is hopefully clarity - no spurious paperwork checks, no slow-pay of withdrawals due to "regulations" that aren't applicable. Obviously we have to see this in practice, and there could be unintended consequences even at this level.

 

[09237653]

one problem is casinos only ever assume you will lose, the concept of winning is never a factor, sure i deposited £300 in three days but I won £900 last week so I'm still up 600.

 

[Reelsoffun]

one problem is casinos only ever assume you will lose, the concept of winning is never a factor, sure i deposited £300 in three days but I won £900 last week so I'm still up 600.

But that’s where net deposits comes into play, in that case you would still be able to deposit after the 300.

 

[09237653]

But that’s where net deposits comes into play, in that case you would still be able to deposit after the 300.

do any casinos factor that into their limits then? when i win big my limits remain the same.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Some do, some don’t, but the wording from UKGC is net so that’s what I expect all casinos will star to use or it would actually cost them more custom in the long run, if players can’t spend their winnings back in the same month.

 

[jasonuk]

do any casinos factor that into their limits then? when i win big my limits remain the same.

Yes, net deposit limits are quite common. Some will offer net (includes withdrawals), some will offer gross (excludes withdrawals) and some will offer both net and gross.

I was fortunate enough to have a decent withdrawal last month at a casino that uses net deposit calculations, and thus the full amount was included in my limit for the next 30 days - I have the restraint, I can understand that some would not.

Some do, some don’t, but the wording from UKGC is net so that’s what I expect all casinos will star to use or it would actually cost them more custom in the long run, if players can’t spend their winnings back in the same month.

Indeed, and it works both ways.

Gross deposit limits give you a rigid control of deposits, but can introduce a perverse incentive to leave funds in the account for another day because you can't "replace them".

Net deposit limits are more flexible, but at a higher responsibility because you can potentially deposit (and lose) all of the winnings back without question. Additionally, if using a rolling window you can get "deposit shocks" where a large withdrawal drops out and then you can't deposit at all for a period of time - which can be particularly annoying if it impedes a time-sensitive promotion (remember those? good times).

 

[bamberfishcake]

Because of this low limit coming into play, I feel compelled to deposit and play way above my pay grade.

Feel like time is running out for me to score a max win and I am tempted to go all in each month before the deadline passes.

I've stopped paying bills and already cut back on shopping to compensate. I visit the shops at 5 each day and buy all the stuff that's going out of date - we don't eat like we used to but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

If I develop a gambling problem as a result of stress and unexpected pressure imposed by the UKGC, do you think they could be held responsible? After all, I need looking after, and am not smart enough to make my own decisions so, therefore, cannot be held accountable for my actions when I am not pulling the strings.

They have sure made me anxious. For those that don't know, 'anxiety' is an incurable viral disease that you can catch from others that take you outside of your comfort zone - if you catch anxiety, it's really hard to get rid of, they can only treat not cure, and you can get PIP payments that pay more than minimum wage in the UK.

I may need to visit the doctor to see if I can get some kind of disability allowance to compensate for UKGC pressures, which I can totally gamble on scratchcards at the local shop without fear of catching the anxiety virus.

 

[Ant1975]

What else can we expect from a country that spent decades forbidding people from buying a drink after 10:30pm on a Sunday, (and using undercover cops to enforce it,) and one that practically turns a blind eye to shoplifting and burglary but threatens it's citizens with hefty fines and imprisonment should they dare to watch a 3pm football match on the Internet.
I moved to over to crypto 3 years ago now because of the inability to make my own choices when gambling, and should that fall through, then I won't be going back to regulated. I'll just quit completely.

 

[satchnz]

Because of this low limit coming into play, I feel compelled to deposit and play way above my pay grade.

Feel like time is running out for me to score a max win and I am tempted to go all in each month before the deadline passes.

I've stopped paying bills and already cut back on shopping to compensate. I visit the shops at 5 each day and buy all the stuff that's going out of date - we don't eat like we used to but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

If I develop a gambling problem as a result of stress and unexpected pressure imposed by the UKGC, do you think they could be held responsible? After all, I need looking after, and am not smart enough to make my own decisions so, therefore, cannot be held accountable for my actions when I am not pulling the strings.

They have sure made me anxious. For those that don't know, 'anxiety' is an incurable viral disease that you can catch from others that take you outside of your comfort zone - if you catch anxiety, it's really hard to get rid of, they can only treat not cure, and you can get PIP payments that pay more than minimum wage in the UK.

I may need to visit the doctor to see if I can get some kind of disability allowance to compensate for UKGC pressures, which I can totally gamble on scratchcards at the local shop without fear of catching the anxiety virus.

You had me going there for a bit until I came across a sentence you wrote which contained both the words “UKGC” and “responsible”… ?

 

[slot_zombie]

For all the excessive hand wringing and nannying over online gaming, there was a video uploaded this week on the K9 Fruits channel, the bloke lost 3 grand in a couple of hours playing FOBT purple bags on Action Bank in an Admiral arcade.

No member of staff intervened.

No-one from the UKGC seems to care about the Light & Wonder 'bags' costing up to £50 (on average) for a set of 5 base game spins and skirting merrily around the £2 max stake. But seen many horror stories of players putting in up to £800 and not even getting a spin of the reels if the bags go on a mental losing run.

 

[bamberfishcake]

No-one from the UKGC seems to care about the Light & Wonder 'bags'

To say 'I wonder why'? is not only thought-provoking but also a Dad-joke pun

 

[Bryan Llewellyn]

Bamb. I know what you mean, they really should leave the kids alone. But they will never do that. The shit that goes on behind classroom doors is frightening, some of the stories I've read and the pictures I've unfortunately seen of classrooms, well, I wouldn't send my child to a public school if I had one, no sir.
Just make sure your kids go with their gut feeling, and, show them this (below) if they ars still unsure of how to think due to the bombardment of nose peirced pink haired teachers forcing such bullshit down their throats behind closed doors

View attachment 196519

all thats missing here is the big club.

 

[jasonuk]

No-one from the UKGC seems to care about the Light & Wonder 'bags' costing up to £50 (on average) for a set of 5 base game spins and skirting merrily around the £2 max stake. But seen many horror stories of players putting in up to £800 and not even getting a spin of the reels if the bags go on a mental losing run.

They're not skirting around the rules, pre-gambles have been in the regulations for at least a couple of decades (section 6.6 of the legacy technical standard refers to a "pre-game gamble", as does section 5.13 of the FOBT technical standard), and impose a number of additional regulations. One of which is that:

5.13d) pre-gambles must be transparent in that they must be at natural odds, the player must get what he sees, and there must be no form of compensation or payment or retention of winnings in the event that a short or long series of game outcomes falls outside that which might be normally expected;

Obviously they were introduced as a way to continue enhanced "big bets" spins by the back door, although a 1 in 25 shot - much like roulette - can have a horrendous tail to the curve and go hundreds and hundreds of spins without landing. Additionally, plenty of stories of people waiting ages to get one, and then win peanuts.

Just to give some idea of the binomial distribution (p=0.04):

	Zero Sets	One Set	Two Sets	Three Sets	Four+ Sets
25 spins / £50	36.0%	37.5%	18.8%	6.0%	1.7%
50 spins / £100	13.0%	27.1%	27.6%	18.4%	13.9%
100 spins / £200	1.7%	7.0%	14.5%	19.7%	57.1%

Given how quickly they can go wrong... it's one way to increase the tilt-o-meter...

 

[Guntis]

If i was the UKGC, i would ban all those so called pre-gambles for good. They are extremely bad, in my opinion, and seem like pure scams. Once, i was playing roulette in those arcades, and before having a normal spin, just after placing a bet, i had to gamble to have a spin. So, i lost £70 in a few gambles and never saw even one normal roulette spin.