Videoslots source of wealth income etc etc etc

[gtpaul]

Hello all,

Been hanging out in the shadows for a longtime hope your all good and well.

Thought I might introduce myself with this email I received from videoslots tonight.

Any ideas or thought would be appreciated.

Best regards to all.

gtpaul





Dear Paul,

First of all, we wish to thank you for being a loyal customer at Videoslots.

Videoslots Ltd is a company licenced and regulated in EU. Accordingly with EU's 4th directive, we need to establish the source of funds you use to play with at Videoslots.

We need further proof of your source of wealth. Please upload proof of your source of wealth.

Examples of documentation for source of wealth:

Inheritance:
A copy of the will that must include the value of the estate.
A lawyer or notary’s letter on letter headed paper.
A letter from the trustees of an estate that includes the type of asset and respective value.

Sale of property:
Signed letter from a lawyer or a notary on letter headed paper.
Contract of sale.

Employment Income:
Payslips.
Bank statement showing receipt of latest salary income.

Retirement Income:
Pension statement.
Letter from annuity provider.
Bank statement showing receipt of latest pension income and name of provider.

Winnings
Letter from relevant organisation (Lottery headquarters/betting shop/casino).
A certificate of winnings issued by the relevant company or casino. E.g. print screen of the casino account showing winnings.
The case of lottery winnings, a bank statement showing funds deposited by company name; or copies of media coverage (if applicable) as supporting evidence.

Other
Bank statements confirming receipt of such income from identifiable sources, or savings.
A trust deed showing consistent entitlement to income (e.g. as a beneficiary).
Evidence of receipt of a gift.

Any other document evidencing source of wealth.

We thank you for your cooperation.

Best regards,
Support

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[Mouche12]

Hi gtpaul, welcome!

Perhaps Dan, the casino rep, can tune in. Is your account already verified, did you make a substantial withdrawal? Just curious what triggered their request.

 

[gtpaul]

Hi Mouche, Ive been a longtime member, account is fully verified, I have made some large withdrawals in the past but nothing too excessive.

I did receive an online form the other day to complete and this is obviously part two, so maybe you will all be getting one.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Tell them you're a gigolo who only accepts cash.

No, but seriously, it's a bloody cheek! If it were me, I'd close the account... and if I finally end up with nowhere to play, fine! I'll find a more worthwhile way to occupy myself.

It may be an EU directive, but a private business has no right to demand that information, to my mind.

 

[Mouche12]

If you click on Staff and iGaming Reps on the top ribbon you'll find the casino rep for Videoslots. You may want to send him a pm. I hope VS is not going down this path... It is an invasion of our privacy.

 

[gtpaul]

Yes Ed many thanks.

I run my own cafe bar so I am self employed my personal bank details should not be on public display etc.

The information they require is mind boggling.

Next it will be hair urine and DNA samples.............

 

[gtpaul]

Hi Mouche,

Im sure Dan has or is reading this.

 

[SlotGrinder]

When I logged in to casumo one day it asked me a couple of questions like job income how much I deposit etc
I'm sure videoslots don't WANT to be asking you these questions... must be something they have to do to comply with tax or money laundering laws ?

 

[gtpaul]

Hi slotGrinder,
Yes I had one at casumo aswell nowhere as intrusive as this though.

This is probably going to be the "norm" from now on.

Casinos seem to apply this differently from each other.

 

[ed skull murphy]

The only one I have had was when I applied for a Paddy Power Plus Card, which is a pre-paid Mastercard with which one can withdraw from one's balance at PP, it wasn't intrusive and I simply put 'from my bankroll', which is true, I keep a cash bankroll, as many gamblers do. They seem happy with that.

At first I put 'alchemy', but hastily thought better of it.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hello gtpaul.

I have sent you a private message.

Best regards,
Daniel.

 

[Lincolnuk]

For the amount i win and deposit i think if i start getting these request it be time to hang up my spinning hands

 

[SlotGrinder]

Yes tbh this is prob a good thing for problem gamblers . Having to fill out a form full of personal info is a bit of a deterrent.

 

[gtpaul]

1. Hello gtpaul.
   
   I have sent you a private message.
   
   Best regards,
   Daniel.
   
   

Hello Dan.

PM sent awaiting your update.

Couple of concerns re my account.

1. If I am not prepared to submit the documentation asked for what is the procedure re the status of my account?

2. If I made a deposit and was successful in winning, is my withdrawal subject to "ransom" ie no documents no withdrawal.

At present my account remains open, I have been with videoslots for almost 3 years and about to reach level 50.

So I not a new member, is there a point where your withdrawals / deposits reach a limit that trigger this source of wealth request?

Also you have my credit / debit cards on file, now you are asking for the bank details as well !?

All rather worrying if all this personal information fell into the wrong hands.

I trust you can see my points.

Best regards.

gtpaul

 

[theapple]

2. If I made a deposit and was successful in winning, is my withdrawal subject to "ransom" ie no documents no withdrawal.

this is the most important question imo.

Not talking just about VS here but this new rule just gives casinos another edge (especially dodgy casinos) when it comes to stalling/refusing cashouts. I was really happy when ukgc decided to do ... stuff but apparently every new rule is just another set of annoyances for players ... soon enough we will have to confirm how our spouse / mother in law is aware we are gamblers and unless we are able to provide notarized signature by our marriage partner we wont be able to make a cashout anymore. Of course, you would still be able to deposit, or reverse cashouts, because why not.

its just too much hassle tbh and to make things worse its all done upon cashouts which is awesome for casinos, but not so awesome for players.

 

[b3b44]

i had the same thing last week at Casumo i send all the docs needed cuz i had a withdraw pending otherwise i was thinking to close the casino account but luckily im passed that now.
It was funny i send the docs they ask for and yet they reject them....but end good all good .
The next casino that asks for it will get the close account hammer from me.
Its just too much personal info they ask for ...

 

[chris87]

As I mentioned on the VS thread I had a request to verify my Source of Wealth on Friday when I tried to make a (largish) cash out. After filling out the online form and sending a copy of my bank statement I was verified and made my withdrawal. I mentioned this to Dan at the Meistermeet last night and I thought that was that. However, it appears not, as my account was suddenly restricted this afternoon after 4 years of playing there with quite a lot of deposits and a fair few withdrawals, getting to Level 81 VIP status and never any issues,

Dan is on the case, but I think this is new to the staff too. I think I may have to jump through a few hoops to get the restriction lifted.

I think this could cause problems for a few players, the concern is that there doesn't seem to be any consistency or clarity across the industry. I can also understand why people would not want to disclose sensitive information.

Chris

 

[Cyclops]

I would not want to give the information there asking. It seems a bit much I would rather close account find another way to enjoy myself

 

[gtpaul]

Well Dan failed to answer my points, he either didnt know or was "gagged" by a higher level.

This is almost legal identity theft between UKGC and online casinos.

Your bank details, statements, photo ID passport license etc, are now all going to be stored at online gambling establishments.

God forbid if these sites ever got hacked, a goldmine of information all in one place.

GL everyone TC

gtpaul

 

[colinsunderland]

Well Dan failed to answer my points, he either didnt know or was "gagged" by a higher level.

This is almost legal identity theft between UKGC and online casinos.

Your bank details, statements, photo ID passport license etc, are now all going to be stored at online gambling establishments.

God forbid if these sites ever got hacked, a goldmine of information all in one place.

GL everyone TC

gtpaul

Videoslots stance on this is that its against the law to talk about it, it isn't they are just making things up so they don't have to answer. MrWild linked to the tipping off law but that doesn't apply here.

 

[greylady]

Wow all that information would be a gold mine to someone who had identity theft on their mind.

It's not the first time staff, even senior banking staff have committed fraud so how can every online casino assure you that the information is safe, no in fact guarantee there is no risk to all the information being stored.

 

[goatwack]

Where does the UKGC stand on casinos spamming one's details about and casinos' insistence on exposing everyone's personal details? Hardly conducive to combatting fraud, more like encouraging it surely.

God knows people can wreak havoc with minimal personal information, so to flout even more sensitive details to complete strangers is not what I'd call fraud- preventative.

And despite claims to the contrary, even with the accredited casinos in tow, I've never experienced so much dangerous spam in my emails all these years were it not for, well, casinos. So f*ck knows what people really do with your information. Oh yeah I forgot, they process it before disposing of it. Honest.

 

[Steviedoo]

They're never gonna say what triggered the source of wealth request as this will enable the real money launderers out there to buck the system.

 

[colinsunderland]

Lets not forget all the dodgy casino employees who sell customer data to affiliates and affiliate managers, think how much they could get for a few thousand of these details rather than just a name and email address!

 

[Valhalla]

The moment any casino makes this enquiry with me is the moment I close my account. It's really unnerving to fully verify your account and identity and yet STILL at any point the casino could pull this Trump Card and sicken your happiness at a big win.

 

[fccash]

Damn - Source of wealth??!! - Property, Inheritance,Retirement Income etc..
I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than give highly sensitive information of that nature to any online provider
Do that.... and you might as well post your credit card # and CV in thread so we can ALL go shopping - mamma needs new shoes

 

[DreamRJ]

After reading the many posts and concerns about ID theft and casinos getting hacked. Well until it does happen. Who knows if any of the casinos have been hacked already? We do not know. But if it hit the media as other famous hacks of other none gambling companies like banks and gaming companies. User data is what makes the internet age. And that can be very profitable to bad people and to honest people alike.

If that means that some dodgy staff who has access to that information and can easily make copies of it etc etc. Or if it is some hacking group or lone hacker who just wants to sell it off on the dark web. Which how would we know if this has not already happened?

I mean take for example the fact that the amount of spam we get!? from email addresses that have no relevance to a casino we first signed up too. And also the figures of how many gamblers have had their identity stolen are not public. And if that figure was higher for gamblers than it was for non gamblers. Then that would point out that hacks have already happened.

Now let me just get back onto the email spam for a moment. So as I said above about the amount of spam we get from unfamiliar email addresses, well there is actually a way we could all test it. We could make a brand new email account. We could sign upto 5 online casinos only at first. Wait a few weeks to a few months and see what spam we start to get. And do not use that email for anything other than those 5 casinos! That would in turn let us know which casinos are selling our data and which data they are selling. And it might not exactly prove those casinos was hacked. But rather they sold our data to 3rd parties.

But yeah if I get asked for source of wealth at VS I think I too would be asking myself if I will still play there and actually fulfil the criteria they ask. Because after reading it in the OP I am actually shocked at what they ask. Because I can only provide like 1 or 2 of them, which would only be bank statement or the screenshot of a casino withdraw elsewhere etc etc.

I too am a loyal player and I am level 30. So yeah I will keep my eye on this thread and other threads with similar requests because eventually it will all blow up and not just for us but also for the casinos. They will lose customers faster than they get new ones. And if they then start sending the source of wealth to new customers they get as soon as they make an account. Then that will just scare them of before they even play at them. So this could be the downfall to a lot of casinos. If the said casinos do not compassionately come up with a simple system without the need to ask a player to upload a vast array of documents or screenshots to prove source of wealth.

 

[Ork]

VS just sent me the same email.
Just filled out the first part with the declaration.
Not sure what the fuss is about, I’ve had to verify ID in the past.
Surely this is just another step?

 

[interlog]

Had this request last year. Just a declaration to complete, sign and return. No sensitive documents such as wage slips, proof of income etc. was requested.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi all,


We do understand that this is sensitive information and that many customer will not want to share this information. But it’s not much we can do about it.

Accordingly with the instruction we have received from our regulators, we need to check source of wealth both for AML but also for Responsible Gambling to determine if customer affords to spend what they do in our casino and funds are legit.

It has been made very clear to us and a couple of other operators, that if we don’t increase our checks, we will risk losing our licence. When the regulators are ready with the current group of casino’s they are targeting, they will start with the next one until everyone comply.

Please feel free to contact us if there are any questions, we will do our best to help out and make this as effective as possible.

Br,

Daniel

 

[gtpaul]

Had this request last year. Just a declaration to complete, sign and return. No sensitive documents such as wage slips, proof of income etc. was requested.

Yes I had the first part of the declaration to complete, but at anytime this can and will drop in.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi all,


We do understand that this is sensitive information and that many customer will not want to share this information. But it’s not much we can do about it.

Accordingly with the instruction we have received from our regulators, we need to check source of wealth both for AML but also for Responsible Gambling to determine if customer affords to spend what they do in our casino and funds are legit.

It has been made very clear to us and a couple of other operators, that if we don’t start doing this immediately, we will risk losing our licence. When the regulators are ready with the current group of casino’s they are targeting, they will start with the next one until everyone comply.

Please feel free to contact us if there are any questions, we will do our best to help out and make this as effective as possible.

Br,

Daniel

And still you don't answer the one question that has been asked more than any other by the most people. If a customer refuses to supply the information, what happens to any withdrawal? Not that I can see many reasons for it being requested on withdrawal.

 

[aceking123]

he cannot answer Colin as none of them can this seems to be part the problem & its going to cause many many players to remove themselves from online gaming.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi colinsunderland,

If it’s a RG issue, player can request close the account and get balance refunded and if its an AML issue, its up to the regulators to decide if we are allowed to refund the balance or not.

Br,

Daniel

 

[goatwack]

It's reassuring knowing that I'll never be asked to provide source of wealth documentation if I clear several grand on the slots with my £15 deposit. I mean who in their right mind would call me a money-launderer with £15 right?

It's not like there isn't a clear- cut, transparent set of rules that casinos can refer to and leave those small players alone.

They won't pick on me, I'm sure of it, because these directives are aimed solely at money launderers.

Whew.

 

[gtpaul]

Yep, There can be any excuse now to withhold your winnings, be it RG. AML all in the casinos favour.

 

[aceking123]

It's reassuring knowing that I'll never be asked to provide source of wealth documentation if I clear several grand on the slots with my £15 deposit. I mean who in their right mind would call me a money-launderer with £15 right?

It's not like there isn't a clear- cut, transparent set of rules that casinos can refer to and leave those small players alone.

They won't pick on me, I'm sure of it, because these directives are aimed solely at money launderers.

Whew.

Im not so sure about that , i know you have over 1000 accounts & you deposit 15 quid four times a week at each , could you please supply the info )

 

[aceking123]

i think next year you shall see a 30% reduction online in revs due to this or many players shall just bust & never return.

 

[interlog]

Hi colinsunderland,

If it’s a RG issue, player can request close the account and get balance refunded and if its an AML issue, its up to the regulators to decide if we are allowed to refund the balance or not.

Br,

Daniel

But shouldn't you only be requesting it for the purpose of AML regulations if you have SUSPICION that the funds are not legit? Is the casino going to play judge and jury once it has been supplied?

And where in the regulations does it state source of wealth is required for responsible gambling issues?

 

[goatwack]

There is still the age-old question that's been bugging me in this thread, namely........why did Edskullmurphy get hammered again?

I shan't rest until I know

 

[brianmon]

Hi colinsunderland,

If it’s a RG issue, player can request close the account and get balance refunded and if its an AML issue, its up to the regulators to decide if we are allowed to refund the balance or not.

Br,

Daniel

Are the regulators really going to get involved in individual cases though?

If it's a withdrawal that's blocked, aren't the regulators going to be more concerned that the problem wasn't detected at the deposit stage?

If the balance isn't refunded, for whatever reason, what happens to that money?

Maybe VideoSlots should do what SlotsMillion and LadyLucks are doing...

On SM and LL, we'll release soon a new "seatbelt" that will block deposits and warn the player when he reaches the "source of funds" zone so it won't be at withdrawal anymore.

Regards

That sorts the problem out. since there won't be an outstanding balance

 

[gtpaul]

He hacked into the videoslots server and ran away with all the banking details!
Only joking, LOL

 

[aceking123]

i sent maxd a pm to see what i had missed concerning ed skull , but hes a busy guy )

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi colinsunderland,

If it’s a RG issue, player can request close the account and get balance refunded and if its an AML issue, its up to the regulators to decide if we are allowed to refund the balance or not.

Br,

Daniel

Thank you

 

[electronictonic]

Are the regulators really going to get involved in individual cases though?

If it's a withdrawal that's blocked, aren't the regulators going to be more concerned that the problem wasn't detected at the deposit stage?

If the balance isn't refunded, for whatever reason, what happens to that money?

Maybe VideoSlots should do what SlotsMillion and LadyLucks are doing...


That sorts the problem out. since there won't be an outstanding balance

Exactly, if it was truly for AML then it would be done at the fucking deposit stage, not after the fact.
In the future I guess all deposits will be put on hold until you verify your source of wealth.
It's the analogy of closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted.

 

[gtpaul]

Yes early days, this going to rumble on and on.
Early days yet, expect to read some nightmare stories when some people come to cashout, only to be told they are money laundering.
All stacked in the casinos favour.

 

[colinsunderland]

Exactly, if it was truly for AML then it would be done at the fucking deposit stage, not after the fact.
In the future I guess all deposits will be put on hold until you verify your source of wealth.
It's the analogy of closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted.

Same comments apply for RG issues. If I make 10 x £200 deposits tonight and usually I do 1 x £50 deposit a day, then that should be picked up long before the withdrawal.
Similarly, I deposit £30, have a couple if big hits, make a £5000 withdrawal, how can that raise concerns from a RG viewpoint.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi all,

We do always add a deposit block to the account when we request this information to make sure a player cant just continue to deposit.

Br,

Daniel

 

[gtpaul]

Yes Dan, should you ever visit SW England, pop in and see me.

I will treat you to a devon cream tea washed down with some real scrumpy, while we discuss the finer points.

Dont forget jam first then cream.

Lol

 

[goatwack]

Yes Dan, should you ever visit SW England, pop in and see me.

I will treat you to a devon cream tea washed down with some real scrumpy, while we discuss the finer points.

Dont forget jam first then cream.

Lol

Just be sure to ID him first