Resolved Betstro -- withdrawal in pending state forever

[deleted-user-20240310]

Just wanted to warn other players on L.C.S. Casino Ltd. casinos, in my case betstro.com. I will be contacting MGA shortly, but I will give my review on forums first.

The casino is a ROGUE casino, keeping the withdrawal in pending state forever. Avoid this casino, and also avoid other L.C.S Ltd casinos, because based on what I read, the following casinos also cheat the same way: Sons of Slots, Lapilanders, SvenPlay, Wallacebet, Nucleonbet.

This is indeed a rogue casino that keeps withdrawals pending for an unimaginably long time citing its own rules (more on this below). I have been playing in online casinos for well over ten years and I have NEVER come across a similar hustle (even in Curacao joints).

Initial info: I didn't use bonuses, I played with raw depot. My withdrawal is not big, not even 2xminimum WD (which is also an unfathomable €100). I sent the documents as soon as I wanted to make the withdrawal, the same documents have been sent to every single casino I've ever played.

1. They won't even let you initiate a withdrawal request until KYC is done. They claim that it is a license requirement, which it really is not. Checking documents takes max. 72 hours (!!!). When I ask them why they do this, they refer to their own rules.
2. Checking the documents took about 36 hours, after which I was able to make a withdrawal request. I did this last Thursday at 11:39.
3. The rules they quoted earlier state that withdrawals are processed within 72 hours (no mention of working days).
4. It is now Monday, at 12:xx. My withdrawal request is still pending. So a simple, raw depot withdrawal has now already lasted 6 days (!!!).

When asked on their live chat why they don't follow their own rules, they close the CHAT (another sure sign of a rogue casino).

A complaint to the MGA will be sent as soon as possible, because not following your own rules cannot be legal!

I advise everyone to avoid L.C.S. Ltd casinos!

 

[maxd]

Hello,

Classifying a casino as Rogue here on Casinomeister means that we've reviewed it and come to that conclusion. AFAIK that's not the case here. Thread title changed to better reflect the issues you've had with them. Apologies for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Forum Co-Moderator, sussexmskpartnershipeast.com

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Hello Max!

What does it take to classify the casino as rogue? I would think that not following their own rules classifies casino as such?
EDIT: Especially as they quote their own rules when asking why you cannot initiate a withdrawal before KYC is complete (there is no such requirement on MGA -license) but fail to follow their own rules when it doesn't suit them!

 

[maxd]

Please see our Rogue page, there are details there that I think will answer your questions: Rogue Casinos List - Casinomeister Advocate of Fair Play Since 1998

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Please see our Rogue page, there are details there that I think will answer your questions: Rogue Casinos List - Casinomeister Advocate of Fair Play Since 1998

- Max

Thx. I think the following is already fulfilled:

- Refusing to pay out winnings (as I already stated, their own rules state that the withdrawals will be handled within 72 hours (not 3 working days). As they quote their rules themselves, they should honour them aswell. Doesn't matter whether or not they have changed the rules, I have a screenshot from Friday (I told them about their rules then, saying they will be breaking their own rules if they don't have people working on weekends - my advice to pay up on Friday was ignored).
- No response online casinos. Their live CHAT spill out the same copy-pasted messages, no matter what my question is. For example, I asked them yesterday at what time will their payment department is available, they closed the chat at least 15 times until I got an anwser. Also, today when I asked why is my withdrawal is still pending and why they are not following their rules, I got the same copy-pasted messages as several times before.
- False advertising. They say they have 24/7 customer service, but their chat doesn't help (copy-pasted rules they themselves don't honour is not helping)

I wouldn't know about bonus frauds etc. as I didn't use them. However, I read from casinomeister that they have a max. winning of 5000€ / day (without a bonus). I don't think this is legal as well (imagine hitting 10 000 000 € only to get 5000€ from that).

I strongly suggest you add the casino as rogue.

 

[maxd]

Hello,

I understand that you're not happy with these guys but I get the feeling you're trying to pin the Rogue title on them simply because you are pissed off:

• "Refusing to pay out winnings" means stealing your money. That's not the same as taking longer than advertised to pay.
• "No response" means no response, nada, flat-line, radio silence. Responding with cut-and-paste from the Terms is not the same thing. It may not be a useful response but it's a lot different than totally ignoring you.
• "False advertising" means advertising one thing and delivering something else entirely. Again, claiming "24/7 CS" and then giving you unsatisfactory responses is not false advertising.

That said, if you want to nominate them for a review feel free to message @Casinomeister or @LadyJelena with your suggestion. Please be sure to point them to this thread (use the URL: https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/betstro-withdrawal-in-pending-state-forever.98544).

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Well, It is not up to me what the criteria for setting a casino rogue you want to use. I just wanted to warn other players! And that is exactly what I am doing:

1. Making up your own rules (KYC Before even accepting withdrawl requests is a totally made-up rule, MGA doesn't require this).

Can you think of any reason for this, other than to deliberately stall withdrawals / refusing to pay out winnings? However, if they quote this as a rule and doesn't follow their own rules (not advertisement), then I suggest you set them rogue (but that is up to you). They mention in their rules that the withdrawal will be handled within 72 hours - why should this rule be ignored if they quote their own rules when it suits them?

You see the dilemma here?

2. No-response

The copy-pasted messages are the same as no reply at all (or basically ignoring my questions).

 

[maxd]

I suggest you decide what you think is appropriate about this casino and you're free to make your suggestions to us as I've already specified.

If you have an actual complaint that you want to file with us in the hopes that we can mediate a solution for you you're welcome to do so. That process starts here: Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister .

If you do file your complaint here please ensure that you read and comply with our Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures . Failure to comply with the Player Arbitration (PAB) Rules could slow, stall or even cancel your complaint.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Finally, I got my money. I won't make any additional complaints - I think this whole thread is enough to warn other players

It is up to you now to decide whether max 72 hours + max 72 hours (KYC before you can even request a withdrawal) not counting the weekends is good enough in 2022. Me, I will self-exclude from L.C.S Ltd permanently.

 

[maxd]

Happy to hear you got this resolved.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Happy to hear you got this resolved.

- Max

Just a heads up - even AskGamblers, which is quite strict when accepting casino reviews accepted my rogue claims

 

[maxd]

Good to know. Thank you.

- Max

 

[choco]

Every l.c.s Limited casinos is rogue... Those are absolute fraud factories. Everyone stey away of those!!!!!

 

[Avernite]

And to think I almost played there once. Glad you got your money and a lesson well learned.

 

[deleted20230517]

To be honest 6 days in order to proces a withdrawl, no matter if weekends / working days are in effect, is a bit way too long tho? We're talking not even hundreds here.

 

[choco]

Long whitdraws and kyc Is small problem whit l.c.s Limited casinos.... They commit frauds and counterfeit players account balances etc. There Is multiple cases they just stole founds from players including me.
Tens and tens thousands stolen. So keep away those casinos!!!!!

 

[Doobz]

Yes, just as mannthi and choco writes, these are indeed rouge casinos. All casinos from L.C.S Limited operates the same way. The goal is to pay out as few as possible. MGA and MADRE doesnt care at all, these crooks have been doing this for a while now. *snip* and *snip* is the name of these 2 greek lightbulbs. Anyone feeling for a collect from these criminals? I only lost a 100 euro total on Betstro and Wallacebet but my winnings was 300 euro on Betstro and 200 euro on Wallacebet, lost due to denied withdrawal. These casinos exists only to scam people, and I think we should *snip* to these guys? If i had a major balance stolen then I would go after these to *snip*

[maxd says: threats of death and violence are TOTALLY unacceptable on our forums, AND a violation of the Forum Rules . Please __never__ do this again or you will be banned from our site.]

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

Well, I am still waiting for casinomeister to add these casinos as rogue . Since my incident, I haven't played at any L.C.S. casinos, but one would think several complaints from several different players would be enough to deem L.C.S as rogue.... but as I said earlier, it's not up to me to decide the criteria of 'rogue', but I always thought casinomeister members were mostly players themselves - understanding such behaviour from a casino is not acceptable.

 

[Doobz]

Well maxd, that was not a threat. Where I come from, if you stole from people your body ended up in the gutter sooner or later. And same thing will most likely happend to *snip* & *snip*, the 2 people behind this criminal scam. Ban me if you want, help the criminals scam more players ?

Anyone who want their money back from these 2, inbox me and we will give them a call and nicely inform them about their options.

 

[maxd]

Call it what you like but they were clear violations of the Forum Rules , item 1.20. Casinomeister is not "where you come from" so it's our rules that apply here, full stop.

As to banning you I suggest you re-read my post. I clearly said "Please __never__ do this again or you will be banned from our site". It couldn't be any clearer AFAICT.

- Max

 

[maxd]

Well, I am still waiting for casinomeister to add these casinos as rogue . ...

We have a pretty strict procedure for rogueing a casino and so far the casinos you've named haven't qualified AFAIK. For instance IIRC none of them have a history of Player Arbitration (PAB) complaints which is odd for a group that is supposedly bad to the bone. Unverified grumblings on the forums is generally not sufficient grounds for being thrown in the Rogue Pit, FYI. Nor are blacklistings on other sites as we make up our own minds about things as important as this.

Want to change their current un-Rogued status? File a PAB, one per casino SVP. If they are rotten we'll find out soon enough and the official black-listing process will follow on from there.

In any case I'll flag Bryan on this -- he's @Casinomeister -- and I'm sure he'll look into it when time permits.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@maxd , as I said, I don't care anymore as I have already self-excluded from L.C.S. and won't be filing any PAB:s.
However, please do try the casinos yourself and make a withdrawal request (when /if you can ) and you will see it's a bit more than 'unverified grumblings on the forums' ...

 

[maxd]

Thanks for the suggestion but I don't play -- handling the PAB work keeps me plenty busy as it is -- so I can't personally verify the claims against these casinos.

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@maxd , ok. However, it is very insulting to call a complaint/warning to other players as 'unverified grumblings'. Why on earth would I even write a long post to SEVERAL forums if there wasn't anything wrong with L.C.S and their behaviour But I will continue to keep tabs on L.C.S casino complaints and see if MGA license is worth anything these days...

 

[Doobz]

@maxd , as I said, I don't care anymore as I have already self-excluded from L.C.S. and won't be filing any PAB:s.
However, please do try the casinos yourself and make a withdrawal request (when /if you can ) and you will see it's a bit more than 'unverified grumblings on the forums' ...

I agree. The reason to not let the player withdraw his funds should be enough really. The respect for the player and his funds are non existant. The max withdrawal of 5000 should also be a reason alone to blacklist them. We need to separate the good from the rotten.

In any other type of business or industry these guys would be facing jail time, but the thing with criminals scamming with fake online casinos seems to be fair game.

 

[choco]

Yes indeed those Is not casinos.. only scam sitä.. should Be rogue status

 

[maxd]

@maxd , ok. However, it is very insulting to call a complaint/warning to other players as 'unverified grumblings'. Why on earth would I even write a long post to SEVERAL forums if there wasn't anything wrong with L.C.S and their behaviour But I will continue to keep tabs on L.C.S casino complaints and see if MGA license is worth anything these days...

No insult intended and I hear what you're saying but you need to understand that in my capacities as Complaints Manager and Forum Co-Moderator I hear every kind of story imaginable from people who may or may not have a personal agenda. Sometimes their intent is honourable, sometimes not, but the only way to know for sure is to investigate, gather and examine the evidence then -- and only then -- make a decision. When there is nothing but hearsay on offer then I wait for sufficient evidence before making a call either way.

I can certainly see how my approach would be frustrating for some -- especially those that are expecting immediate action based on their word alone -- but thems the breaks in the world of complaints I'm afraid. Better to be cautious and make the right call than be hasty and end up wrong and discredited, IMHO. As ever YMMV.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@maxd , yes I understand some people might complain only on frustration / personal agenda. However, Once I noticed L.C.S. Behaviour, I browsed several forums on these casinos, found the exact same complaints from several players (stalling withdrawals or even blocking withdrawals for no good reason). If they can continue such behaviour, I guess it proves MGA license is worth a toilet paper and the only way to improve things is by writing on forums. So I suggest you make the checks, but as said before, that is up to you ... I just hope these complaints are enough to keep players away from these casinos.

 

[maxd]

... So I suggest you make the checks ...

If and when I receive Player Arbitration (PAB) requests against these casinos I'll do exactly that. Until then -- and I reiterate that no such complaints have been received -- I'll assume what I always do: people mentioning stuff on forums may mean there is a problem and it may not. People posting about a thing doesn't necessarily make it true.

Some years ago we had a flurry of posts from seemingly random people against a well known casino that spanned over a few months: claims of systemic non-payment, unjustified confiscations, mis-applied Terms and so forth. We were able to establish a good working relationship with the casino and that allowed us to investigate the claims -- including PABs btw -- in some depth. It took a while but we eventually learned that almost all of the people posting the accusations could be tracked to an active group of bonus hunters who were working together to improperly exploit the casino's bonus offers and, eventually, attack the casino en masse. In the end we had concrete proof that they were in collusion. It took some time but we were finally able to expose them and dispense with their campaign against the casino.

I respectfully suggest that this is a fine example that caution and the need for proper verification are almost always advisable in these matters, regardless of how persuasive the circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence may at first appear.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@maxd , as said before, I won't be making a complaint as I've already self-excluded from L.C.S. I am positive someone will make this later on...

EDIT: thepogg.com has blacklisted their following casinos (every L.C.S. casino I found on their site):

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Just to let other players know: maybe there is more to my complaint than 'unverified grumbling'

EDIT2: Some important lines on these reviews:

"Evobet has actively constructed their registration form to encourage sign-ups from jurisdictions that they prohibit within their terms and conditions. We consider this to be entrapment, with the operator allowing play from restricted jurisdictions, refusing to pay wins but retaining losses. Further more, in one complaint case we have seen it came to light that the terms and conditions were not available to mobile users, giving the complainant no possibility of knowing that they were prohibited from signing-up, and yet the operator still refused to pay wins."

"Svenbet have refused to pay winnings due to accusations of multi-accounting that, when we reviewed the supporting evidence, appeared to be unfounded."

"Campeon Bet are also Not Recommended as a result of their inclusion of progressive jackpots in their maximum withdrawal term - this is considered predatory since it is the softwatre provider and not the casino that funds these wins. 1/6/2018"

 

[maxd]

As I've said before we make our own decisions on these matters. ThePogg has in the past been an excellent source of reliable information on such matters. If and when the time comes for us to look into the LCS issue we'll certainly take their efforts on this into consideration.

- Max

 

[deleted-user-20240310]

@maxd I understand, but I don't want other players to get the impression I (and other players on this thread) are just 'grumbling'

 

[maxd]

Other players will, as ever, make their own decisions regarding what has been posted. I have no first hand evidence and no proof either way and therefore remain neutral on the subject. You obviously feel otherwise and that's fine, go forth and do as you will.

- Max

 

[Doobz]

Other players will, as ever, make their own decisions regarding what has been posted. I have no first hand evidence and no proof either way and therefore remain neutral on the subject. You obviously feel otherwise and that's fine, go forth and do as you will.

- Max

YES Max, but you have numerous witness and cases on this site, a long with all the info from other sites. Its time to blacklist all of LCS Limited casinos, they are fake. We need to stand united against these crooks *snip* and *snip*, there are 1000s of casino sites, there are no room for fakers and criminals. What more do you need to blacklist these criminals? Tell me and I will provide you with what you need today. Their own T&C is enough already.

 

[maxd]

YES Max, but you have numerous witness and cases on this site, a long with all the info from other sites. Its time to blacklist all of LCS Limited casinos, they are fake. We need to stand united against these crooks *snip* and *snip*, there are 1000s of casino sites, there are no room for fakers and criminals. What more do you need to blacklist these criminals? Tell me and I will provide you with what you need today. Their own T&C is enough already.

How many times do I have to say this?: people posting stuff on the forums is not evidence and it's not proof. It is anecdotal hearsay until someone investigates and is able to gather enough __actual__ evidence to make a call.

"What more do you need to blacklist these criminals?" I believe I've answered that about 4 times already: I need cases that I can investigate and gather evidence on, in other words PABs. Nobody has done a PAB on these casinos, not a single person. You can huff and puff all you like but I have no applicable cases on the table and so no evidence to base any decision on.

And with that I think I've repeated myself enough. The next step in this is for someone, anyone, to file a PAB on one of these casinos so I can get to work and investigate properly. I hereby withdraw from answering further in this thread as I have actual PAB cases that need my attention.

- Max

 

[choco]

Just go Look at casinogurus complaints about LCS Limited they ARE ROGUE! there Is Even legal cases against them, me included! so players should Be warning about LCS!!!!

 

[Gpac2024]

I can attest to the fact that LSC casinos are a great danger to this industry and I dont care if I get banned from here. We, the players, need to be protected. Svenplay, also owned by LSC verifed me. I have that pretty little green "KYC verified" under my name. 60 hours ago, I made a 1000$ withdrawal, which is the maximum you are allowed. Of course, I have not received a penny and I cannot make another 1000$ withdrawal while my first 1000$ withdrawal is pending. I have a total of 7700$ CAD sitting in my account and I want to go to every legnth possible to get my money. No one has emails of these LSC people? Just read the Ask Gambler reviews, 99% are totally fake, it is evident to everyone except Ask Gamblers that gave them a 9 star rating. Just look on Trust Pilot, which I wish I did....A whopping 87% state the fraudulent activity going on there. We are not disgruntled players that lost money, we are players that deposited hard earned money, won and have to tirelessly try and figure out ways to get our winnings, this is sick.

 

[alancastro99]

Other players will, as ever, make their own decisions regarding what has been posted. I have no first hand evidence and no proof either way and therefore remain neutral on the subject. You obviously feel otherwise and that's fine, go forth and do as you will.

- Max

Hello, please help me, as I file a complaint with svenplay, I sent you a message internally, please check it

 

[maxd]

Hello, please help me, as I file a complaint with svenplay, I sent you a message internally, please check it

Yes, I have seen it and replied.

- Max