RTP questions.

[avfcalex23]

Evening / early morning folks.

I’ve been playing slots for a little over a year now, and many of you have far more experience than me in regards to this type of gambling.

The whole RTP theory/argument/process - whatever you want to describe it as, continues to be a topic of hot discussion. I have some questions, which are not wind ups and are genuine, because I can’t quite fathom what I’ve witnessed in the past couple of hours.

In short, I’ve deposited around £250 into Slots Temple, which advertises the highest RTP per slot than any other UK casino. After the first £50 or so went fairly quickly at 50p stakes, I became increasingly concerned I wasn’t going to land a minimum three scatter feature on anything I played. I dropped my stake to 10p and over 2000 spins across four medium and medium to high volatility slots I didn’t as much as hit a 10x base game hit. These games were all Prags, my usual - big bass Halloween, splash 1000, bonanza 1000 and Hot Tuna (of which I had a monster 800x+ win a few days ago on Duelz (lowest RTP on any casino I play at).

1. Does the time of day affect RTP? Are more people playing at 2am in the UK on a Saturday morning? Possibly after night out, coming back a little merry and loading up the slots. Too many players playing at the same time and it’s affecting pattern of play?

2. Does the website/casino ‘control’ slot results, or does the slot provider ‘control’ these results? I have alluded to this before, but Slots Temple is by far the worse casino I’ve played at, considering it has the highest RTP.

3. Are the ‘extra bonus boost bet’ buttons legitimate? Do they genuinely give you a higher chance of winning a feature? I’ve rarely seen any evidence to support this, and feel more often than not they’re a gimmick for casinos and providers to make more money.

I have asked Slots Temple to provide me with a breakdown of my RTP this evening for Hot Tuna. I am estimating around 800 spins on this slot without three scatters landing and/or a minimum 10x base game hit. I have no idea if they have the capability to provide me with this information, but I have asked nevertheless. I can only see my last 100 spins on the history tab, of which I averaged a base game win ratio of 7% or 7 spin ‘wins’ (most less than my stake) out of 100.

This is comfortably (uncomfortably) my worst session since I started playing a year ago. I have very rarely, if ever gone even likely 20% of the spins I’ve had tonight without landing three scatters on a single slot. I am fully aware of variance, downswings and the vice versa in a positive sense too.

I’m not even completely concerned about the monetary loss, I am up quite nicely this week on other casinos. But what I’ve witnessed tonight has just not felt right, for whatever reason that may be. This is an astronomical amount of spins to not be hitting anything more than 5x stake on a base game spin, let alone landing a bonus feature.

These questions are legitimate, I still consider myself a novice in the slots world of gaming, so please don’t think I’m making a joke here with what I’m asking. Sensible responses would be appreciated, possibly drawing on your own experiences too.

Thanks, A.

 

[lukey141]

I've never tried Hot Tuna in my life so I loaded it up on Slots Temple out of curiosity.

I always use the extra chance option because I'm impatient. At the end of the day it says the RTP is identical if you use it or not so it shouldn't matter in the long run. Though obviously having it off means better bang for your buck when you do get hits.

Anyway I gave the slot 50 spins at 10p base bet so 20p with extra chance.

My results were

Spins 1-5 - dead
spin 6 £2.00
spin 7 10p
spin 8 & 9 dead
spin 10 4 scatter bonus paid £14.86 so 148x base bet
spin 11 dead
spin 12 50p
spins 13-16 dead
spin 17 £2.60
spins 18-20 dead
spin 21 20p
spins 22-38 dead
spin 39 20p
spins 40-43 dead
spin 44 30p
spin 45-50 dead

So it does seem like the game goes for a bunch of spins at a time doing nothing at all. But if you really did go 800 spins without a 10x or feature I really can't explain that because I had 3 in 50 spins. Though if you took just my last 30 spins I only got 70p back from £6 of spins.

Also did 100 spins on Bonanza 1000 and it proceeded to eat all the profit from Tuna, giving a bonus on spin 69 that paid 13x lol. Otherwise extremely dead.
100 spins on Splash 1000 no bonus ate £17.15 out of £20 utter trash
Halloween got a bonus on spin 26x and it paid 11x.

Man these games are shite lol

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

1. No.
2. The providers control everything. The casino is provided with options to choose from.
3. Yes. If you want to test the efficacy of these features then you need to run a lot of simulations to get enough data, your handful of spins that you don't track then recap through a biased memory isn't sufficient to draw any conclusions from.

I really think you need to stop gambling and start reading because everything you post alludes to a fundamental misunderstanding to how everything works.

"I won at a lower RTP then lost at a higher RTP," that's not unusual.
"I made a lot of spins and I still didn't win," that's not unusual.
"I had ante bet on and I didn't notice a difference," that's not unusual.
"I won big on a game one day then lost big on the same game the next," that's not unusual.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Seems like the usual gameplay for me on Pragmatic slots

I think you were very, very, very lucky when you started posting your Big Bass screenshots here. It just won't continue like that and variance will inevitably hit you (like it seems to be doing now).

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Funnily enough I was wondering the other day where our Big Bass player had got to!!

Insane luck followed by the reality kicking in can soon put you off a slot!!

Tbf I think the splash 1000 is absolutely brutal. I have no idea why it costs double the stake with the enhanced on and others don’t?? It seems so hard to land as well so no idea where this extra cost goes because the features are still 99% absolute tripe like all its cousins.

Slots temple is without doubt the best place to be playing. Long term you’ll be better off there than you will on 94% horse shit.

 

[2Slots]

3. Last year after seeing your constant hits on Big Bass games and never experiencing anything close on them I gave them a spin on demo whenever I had some time to kill in the daytime. I'd run them in the background on turbo spin at 100 spins a go.

After putting a hell of a lot of spins through quite a few iirc Big Bass Splash seemed to average 1/100 bonus frequency. The worst I remember on Splash was 800 spins without hitting a bonus.

The ones with extra bet were around 1/100 with the extra bet selected and 1/200 with it off. Seemed like if you wanted the original bonus frequency you would have to play with it on.

I don't play pragmatic slots anymore because I never hit anything in the base game so it's just spinning to get the feature. The exception for me is Release the Kraken which can give some decent hits in the base game and has that mini bonus that can pop up quite a lot if you're lucky.

I've found that if you play the same slots consistently your going to eventually hit some sort of dead spell.

Last October I lost everyday with pretty much dead or no bonuses. After the first week I only played DoA2 tenner a day, then a fiver a day in the third week then didn't play at all the last week.

The last week of November I lost every deposit for 7 days with my total staked near enough my deposit. I had 0 bonuses for a week. The following 7 weeks I had 3 winning sessions and I was playing everyday.

On the flip side I broke even or in profit every session for over 30 days from the end of July right up until the last day of August. I played as long as i liked every evening and still finished with a nice profit at the end of August.

 

[avfcalex23]

Thanks for your responses all.

To give you an idea of what I’m trying to say, I’ve woken up, put £10 into paddy power and landed a feature on splash 1000 on the very first spin for 124x.

I think I’m going to stop playing at slots temple, from experience an horrendous casino that’s never paid handsomely in any sense of the word. That site would just not feature last night for love nor money and 2000 spins is a fairly large sample to not hit a bonus game and/or a 10x win.

The 96+% RTP advertisements just draw you in because you think you’ve got a better chance of a consistent return, but it’s far from the case and this has been the same now for 12 months.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

To give you an idea of what I’m trying to say, I’ve woken up, put £10 into paddy power and landed a feature on splash 1000 on the very first spin for 124x.

I think I’m going to stop playing at slots temple

 

[Reelsoffun]

I think you will find, we all knew your run on the bass games was incredible and I did say it was not going to last. They way they playing for you now is how they play 99% of the time for 99% of the players, I will say it again, awful slots, and have never understood why they so popular.

You was just incredibly lucky!

Some would say it’s compensation kicking in, most others will just say it’s now the nasty side of variance your experiencing, either way we did tell you so it should be no surprise when countless experienced players were telling you that it was gonna hurt when it did.

They say that time of day does not matter playing slots, but from my experience it does, and anyone who thinks otherwise IMO is either deluded or has clearly not played at certain times, those that know will know what I’m taking about.

Extra bets do make a difference, they have to legally, but be careful how they are worded.

 

[avfcalex23]

I think you will find, we all knew your run on the bass games was incredible and I did say it was not going to last. They way they playing for you now is how they play 99% of the time for 99% of the players, I will say it again, awful slots, and have never understood why they so popular.

You was just incredibly lucky!

Some would say it’s compensation kicking in, most others will just say it’s now the nasty side of variance your experiencing, either way we did tell you so it should be no surprise when countless experienced players were telling you that it was gonna hurt when it did.

They say that time of day does not matter playing slots, but from my experience it does, and anyone who thinks otherwise IMO is either deluded or has clearly not played at certain times, those that know will know what I’m taking about.

Extra bets do make a difference, they have to legally, but be careful how they are worded.

Penny Bunslinger above is convinced we’re both wrong on the time of day theory. The fact everyone has different opinions and their own views on what I’ve originally posted just goes to prove there’s no sure fire way of determining what’s legitimate and what’s not.

I’m still hitting fairly good returns on big bass slots. My experience last night was on one particular casino where I’ve always been consistent and anything but fickle in my descriptions of what I’ve experienced on slots temple. Woeful payouts, for the highest RTP casino in the business. More fool me for continuing to play there, in some hope it’ll finally pay out something half decent.

Last night was not normal, I’m absolutely convinced of it.

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

1.NOPE
2.NO (I do feel new releases are nerf’d after a while, this is based on experience and feeling rather than any scientific fact) .. But Also yes as a casino can pick one of various “settings” depending on provider. A new PUSH Gaming slot may offer 3 versions 97.4% / 95.0% / 89.6% and the casino will decide which verison to put on their platform.
3. Mathematically YES, will you notice on 100 spins probably not.


@avfcalex23 RTP % or Return to Player ; is based not on YOUR individual spins, but a mathematical probability set into the slot.

Casinos and providers base this RTP % on the long run; and ALL players not only look at their own gameplay but look at the very very short run (like 250 spins !)

Keep in mind when the calculations and algorithms are set for any slot, they are using the laws of ‘Very Large numbers’ ; So imagine standing on a beach on your OWN Earth, and grab a pinch of sand, and each grain of sand is a single spin - As a player you have this pinch and it’s your 250 spins, everyone bases the probability on this single pinch.

The game /casino counts every grain of sand on that beach, they also use every grain on the planet of all the Earths beaches then m multiple millions of other Earths other beaches and grains of sand for spins , and that’s the base numbers the slot is using to determine what lands !

So practically RTP is not going to effect your bank roll if you have spent $500 for example., or time of day or what colour underpants and if they are your lucky ones will make a difference

Where it is useful is if one slot is 90% and one is 97% the smarter money will go on the game with the odds no as much in the casinos favour.

And me personally , although mathematically makes no difference , I like to look at current actual RTP that some casinos offer on history and you can spot the “Hot” and “Cold” games

 

[lukey141]

Thanks for your responses all.

To give you an idea of what I’m trying to say, I’ve woken up, put £10 into paddy power and landed a feature on splash 1000 on the very first spin for 124x.

I think I’m going to stop playing at slots temple, from experience an horrendous casino that’s never paid handsomely in any sense of the word. That site would just not feature last night for love nor money and 2000 spins is a fairly large sample to not hit a bonus game and/or a 10x win.

The 96+% RTP advertisements just draw you in because you think you’ve got a better chance of a consistent return, but it’s far from the case and this has been the same now for 12 months.

I legit think that's a mistake.

If it says 96% it's 96%. Likewise with 94 and 92 elsewhere.

Over a large enough sample you are going to notice that 2/4% extra loss even if right now for some unexplainable reason you seem to have terrible luck on Slots Temple and do well elsewhere. That extra £2/£4 per £100 wagered will add up fast if you are spinning daily.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Penny Bunslinger above is convinced we’re both wrong on the time of day theory.

Well he needs to play at a time of my choosing, provide me logs of his play then tell me time of day don’t matter lol

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Why on earth would it make a difference what time you are playing??

I can brain out anytime!! Night or day.

 

[Reelsoffun]

It totally shouldn’t, I agree, but for me it does and have data that backs it up, and I’m not alone either.

I’m more than happy to be proved wrong if you want to play at a time of my choosing and provide logs, to show the results.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

They say that time of day does not matter playing slots, but from my experience it does, and anyone who thinks otherwise IMO is either deluded or has clearly not played at certain times, those that know will know what I’m taking about.

Explain to me what you think is happening because just saying 'it makes a difference' doesn't really help me to understand your theory.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

What would that prove?? Sometimes I’d win and sometimes I’d lose. Just like every day or night???

I’ve been on a great run recently but still playing exactly the same times as normal.

This month is chalk and cheese to the last.

It’s just down to luck.

 

[Reelsoffun]

What would that prove?? Sometimes I’d win and sometimes I’d lose. Just like every day or night???

I’ve been on a great run recently but still playing exactly the same times as normal.

This month is chalk and cheese to the last.

It’s just down to luck.

I would expect more losing sessions, way more, but how many times you would have to play to prove it is the difficult bit lol But in theory I would accept 2 or more winning sessions as proof against my theory.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Never had u down for tin foil hattery.

 

[avfcalex23]

I would expect more losing sessions, way more, but how many times you would have to play to prove it is the difficult bit lol But in theory I would accept 2 or more winning sessions as proof against my theory.

I would urge everyone to test the theory. Take your regular playing time and spins amount per week and play slots between 2-4pm and then 2-4am daily. I would be very keen to see players results.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Never had u down for tin foil hattery.

I don't, i'm not, but I cant ignore my data driven conclusions.

 

[avfcalex23]

Okay, here you are. Let’s throw another spanner into the works.

Every single day I spin the Sun Plays daily wheel, I receive 0 free spins on big bass splash, which is a troll in itself.

I emailed Jumpman gaming and received the following;

———————

‘Please be advised that the outcome of the daily free spin is determined randomly.

When a message such as “You’ve won 0 spins on Big Bass Splash" pops up, this means that, unfortunately, no free spins were awarded.

While there is the chance to win free spins, it is not guaranteed.

To give you some more insight on how games work, all the slots use RNG technology to produce random results. This means every spin is as fair and random as the last. There's no way for us to alter the outcome of a game’

———————

I have spun this wheel almost every day (below are screens of my last three days results) and they are always the same.

I have tried telling the casino there is clearly a glitch on the daily wheel because I’m receiving exactly the same result each and every day. There is no ‘randomness’. It is a set result of 0 spins on the same game, without fail, day after day after day.

They’ve said it’s random… it’s not. Answers on a postcard?

 

[Reelsoffun]

Explain to me what you think is happening because just saying 'it makes a difference' doesn't really help me to understand your theory.

Try it youself, log the times you play and your outcomes, get enough data you might start to see it.

The fact that my badge saying is:

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.​

And that people tend to agree with that statement also points to the fact it could matter "in theory" could it not? lol

 

[Reelsoffun]

Okay, here you are. Let’s throw another spanner into the works.

Every single day I spin the Sun Plays daily wheel, I receive 0 free spins on big bass splash, which is a troll in itself.

I emailed Jumpman gaming and received the following;

———————

‘Please be advised that the outcome of the daily free spin is determined randomly.

When a message such as “You’ve won 0 spins on Big Bass Splash" pops up, this means that, unfortunately, no free spins were awarded.

While there is the chance to win free spins, it is not guaranteed.

To give you some more insight on how games work, all the slots use RNG technology to produce random results. This means every spin is as fair and random as the last. There's no way for us to alter the outcome of a game’

———————

I have spun this wheel almost every day (below are screens of my last three days results) and they are always the same.

I have tried telling the casino there is clearly a glitch on the daily wheel because I’m receiving exactly the same result each and every day. There is no ‘randomness’. It is a set result of 0 spins on the same game, without fail, day after day after day.

They’ve said it’s random… it’s not. Answers on a postcard?

Either a bug, or that its just a stupid way of saying " better luck next time" or " you didnt win"

It could still be random but there might only be 1 prize in 100 that gives spins so 99 times out 100 is a loser, this is still considered random even tho its totally weighted.

I know for 100% virgin games free things like phoenix daily / weekly pick game was actually loyalty driven in that the prizes were manipulated based on your play, dunno if thats the same now but wouldnt surprise me if that was the case.

But most of them are just random with a very small chance to win anything significant. Promotions back then were far less regulated than maybe now so who knows.

On a side note I made a promotional tool for a land based arcade that the "lucky player" got to pick boxes to win a prize, yet unbeknown to the player the result was already determined by the staff ( based on player loyalty )

Was it legal? probably not but who's going to complain on a free cash giveaway?

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

 

[avfcalex23]

Either a bug, or that its just a stupid way of saying " better luck next time" or " you didnt win"

It could still be random but there might only be 1 prize in 100 that gives spins so 99 times out 100 is a loser, this is still considered random even tho its totally weighted.

I know for 100% virgin games free things like phoenix daily / weekly pick game was actually loyalty driven in that the prizes were manipulated based on your play, dunno if thats the same now but wouldnt surprise me if that was the case.

But most of them are just random with a very small chance to win anything significant. Promotions back then were far less regulated than maybe now so who knows.

On a side note I made a promotional tool for a land based arcade that the "lucky player" got to pick boxes to win a prize, yet unbeknown to the player the result was already determined by the staff ( based on player loyalty )

Was it legal? probably not but who's going to complain on a free cash giveaway?

But how can any organisation claim each spin is fair and independent from the last when they’ve got heavily weighted outcomes to the lower end of anything ‘winnable’.

The virgin thing you mention I think they have on live score bet… you pick one of 50 grid squares to win free spins or cash? Yeah never had anything more than 5 free spins and done that daily for 12 months lol.

I remember deal or no deal theories years ago, if you get down to the last two boxes. Similar to the Monty hall problem with three doors and changing your choice - apparently gives you a 33% better chance of winning, just like with DOND some have claimed changing your box is you’re offered the swap at the end increases your chances of winning, but in reality it’s only the banker that knows what’s in each box so he can test your subconscious and potentially double bluff you.

Funnily enough that’s just reminded me of the DOND lightning spins slot when I got down to the last two boxes around 6 months ago. There was £50 or lightning spins and the banker offered me £105 to take the box. I took the money because, well off a 50p spin that’s an insane return at over 200x. But I’ll never forgive myself to this day, as I had lightning spins in my box. I’ve watched legitimate YouTube slot videos (not the fake scam demo ones) where the lightning spins round on the DOND slot pays INCREDIBLY well, over a 1000x in most cases. If I’d had declined the offer, would I have won the £50 instead? Who knows… but the reason I’m telling you this is because I’m not convinced slot result bonuses are completely pre determined.

A bit like the gamble option on golden winner grand chance, I’ve often gambled a 20p win and won 40p almost every time. I decided to gamble a £17 win for 5 free spins last week. The green part of the circle probably covered 90% it. Guess what… the dial landed in the red lol.

 

[lukey141]

Okay, here you are. Let’s throw another spanner into the works.

Every single day I spin the Sun Plays daily wheel, I receive 0 free spins on big bass splash, which is a troll in itself.

I emailed Jumpman gaming and received the following;

———————

‘Please be advised that the outcome of the daily free spin is determined randomly.

When a message such as “You’ve won 0 spins on Big Bass Splash" pops up, this means that, unfortunately, no free spins were awarded.

While there is the chance to win free spins, it is not guaranteed.

To give you some more insight on how games work, all the slots use RNG technology to produce random results. This means every spin is as fair and random as the last. There's no way for us to alter the outcome of a game’

———————

I have spun this wheel almost every day (below are screens of my last three days results) and they are always the same.

I have tried telling the casino there is clearly a glitch on the daily wheel because I’m receiving exactly the same result each and every day. There is no ‘randomness’. It is a set result of 0 spins on the same game, without fail, day after day after day.

They’ve said it’s random… it’s not. Answers on a postcard?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a weighed random. I have the same thing on daily spins I enter where the wheel always manages to land on nothing. I'm sure it will say somewhere in the T&C that the wheel graphic is just for show and not an accurate representation of your chances. You're probably spinning odds of X in 1000 and landing on no spin is 950 of those 1000 even though it looks like it should be just as likely as the other options. It's still 'random' just not fair lol.

Hell Play ojo have been running this Who wants to be a Millionaire thing since January as well as a Chinese New Year thing for the last month or so. I have not won a single thing, not one at all, despite entering every single day bar the first few when I didn't know it was a thing. The tiles are obviously predetermined not random and it's like 999 times out of 1000 you'll get nothing.

Honestly it's pathetic and a total con but as Reelsoffun said it's free so what can you do about it.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Try it youself, log the times you play and your outcomes, get enough data you might start to see it.

The fact that my badge saying is:

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.​

And that people tend to agree with that statement also points to the fact it could matter "in theory" could it not? lol

I've not had much luck lately so could you share what the best time of day to play is?

In December I couldn't do wrong, it didn't matter if I played at 6am, noon or 10pm but the new year came around and it doesn't matter either... only now I can't win

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

Evening / early morning folks.

I’ve been playing slots for a little over a year now, and many of you have far more experience than me in regards to this type of gambling.

The whole RTP theory/argument/process - whatever you want to describe it as, continues to be a topic of hot discussion. I have some questions, which are not wind ups and are genuine, because I can’t quite fathom what I’ve witnessed in the past couple of hours.

In short, I’ve deposited around £250 into Slots Temple, which advertises the highest RTP per slot than any other UK casino. After the first £50 or so went fairly quickly at 50p stakes, I became increasingly concerned I wasn’t going to land a minimum three scatter feature on anything I played. I dropped my stake to 10p and over 2000 spins across four medium and medium to high volatility slots I didn’t as much as hit a 10x base game hit. These games were all Prags, my usual - big bass Halloween, splash 1000, bonanza 1000 and Hot Tuna (of which I had a monster 800x+ win a few days ago on Duelz (lowest RTP on any casino I play at).

1. Does the time of day affect RTP? Are more people playing at 2am in the UK on a Saturday morning? Possibly after night out, coming back a little merry and loading up the slots. Too many players playing at the same time and it’s affecting pattern of play?

2. Does the website/casino ‘control’ slot results, or does the slot provider ‘control’ these results? I have alluded to this before, but Slots Temple is by far the worse casino I’ve played at, considering it has the highest RTP.

3. Are the ‘extra bonus boost bet’ buttons legitimate? Do they genuinely give you a higher chance of winning a feature? I’ve rarely seen any evidence to support this, and feel more often than not they’re a gimmick for casinos and providers to make more money.

I have asked Slots Temple to provide me with a breakdown of my RTP this evening for Hot Tuna. I am estimating around 800 spins on this slot without three scatters landing and/or a minimum 10x base game hit. I have no idea if they have the capability to provide me with this information, but I have asked nevertheless. I can only see my last 100 spins on the history tab, of which I averaged a base game win ratio of 7% or 7 spin ‘wins’ (most less than my stake) out of 100.

This is comfortably (uncomfortably) my worst session since I started playing a year ago. I have very rarely, if ever gone even likely 20% of the spins I’ve had tonight without landing three scatters on a single slot. I am fully aware of variance, downswings and the vice versa in a positive sense too.

I’m not even completely concerned about the monetary loss, I am up quite nicely this week on other casinos. But what I’ve witnessed tonight has just not felt right, for whatever reason that may be. This is an astronomical amount of spins to not be hitting anything more than 5x stake on a base game spin, let alone landing a bonus feature.

These questions are legitimate, I still consider myself a novice in the slots world of gaming, so please don’t think I’m making a joke here with what I’m asking. Sensible responses would be appreciated, possibly drawing on your own experiences too.

Thanks, A.

There is no room for debate here. RTP is simply a set of rules that determines how a random event pays out. If you set the payout on a single number in roulette at 1 to 37 instead of 1 to 36, RTP becomes 100%. Set it at 1 to 35 and RTP drops to 94.6%.

It does not matter how you place your bets, whether you move the chips with your right hand or your left, whether you play at night or during the day. Red three will hit on average once every 37 spins. Some people will hit it on the first try. Others will need a hundred attempts and still come up short.

Slots are the same thing, just dressed differently. The only difference is you cannot see how many stops are on the reel or what symbols are even in the mix.

The double chance feature for the bonus round does genuinely double your odds of triggering it, but it has zero effect on RTP because you are paying for that privilege.

Win distribution varies a lot between slots. Dead or Alive 2 on High Noon Saloon can go thousands of spins without a meaningful hit, and then suddenly 20,000x and you are either back in the green or not)))

Hope that answers the question in enough detail.

 

[Reelsoffun]

For me its not a case of times when to play, its a strong case of times of day not to.

 

[Reelsoffun]

There is no room for debate here. RTP is simply a set of rules that determines how a random event pays out. If you set the payout on a single number in roulette at 1 to 37 instead of 1 to 36, RTP becomes 100%. Set it at 1 to 35 and RTP drops to 94.6%.

It does not matter how you place your bets, whether you move the chips with your right hand or your left, whether you play at night or during the day. Red three will hit on average once every 37 spins. Some people will hit it on the first try. Others will need a hundred attempts and still come up short.

Slots are the same thing, just dressed differently. The only difference is you cannot see how many stops are on the reel or what symbols are even in the mix.

The double chance feature for the bonus round does genuinely double your odds of triggering it, but it has zero effect on RTP because you are paying for that privilege.

Win distribution varies a lot between slots. Dead or Alive 2 on High Noon Saloon can go thousands of spins without a meaningful hit, and then suddenly 20,000x and you are either back in the green or not)))

Hope that answers the question in enough detail.

I get what your trying to say but....

If you really want to get into it, You can't compare a true physical roulette wheel with slots which use RNG PRNGs etc, they are completely different ways to deliver outcomes.

For starters one is physics the other is using a PRNG for outcomes like mersenne twister example,

Which uses a very long string of pre scripted random numbers and uses a seed value.

Early PRNGs were prone to manipulation and had numerous flaws.

Newer ones are far superior but are still using strings of numbers with a seeded start point.

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I get what your trying to say but....

If you really want to get into it, You can't compare a true physical roulette wheel with slots which use RNG PRNGs etc, they are completely different ways to deliver outcomes.

For starters one is physics the other is using a PRNG for outcomes like mersenne twister example,

Which uses a very long string of pre scripted random numbers and uses a seed value.

Early PRNGs were prone to manipulation and had numerous flaws.

Newer ones are far superior but are still using strings of numbers with a seeded start point.

Why not? Of course you can.

In both cases, the outcome for the player is random in the sense that it cannot be predicted in advance. Roulette has been manipulated too. People have found biased wheels, calculated where the ball would land. And there are plenty of electronic roulette versions even in physical land-based casinos.

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

But how can any organisation claim each spin is fair and independent from the last when they’ve got heavily weighted outcomes to the lower end of anything ‘winnable’.

The virgin thing you mention I think they have on live score bet… you pick one of 50 grid squares to win free spins or cash? Yeah never had anything more than 5 free spins and done that daily for 12 months lol.

I remember deal or no deal theories years ago, if you get down to the last two boxes. Similar to the Monty hall problem with three doors and changing your choice - apparently gives you a 33% better chance of winning, just like with DOND some have claimed changing your box is you’re offered the swap at the end increases your chances of winning, but in reality it’s only the banker that knows what’s in each box so he can test your subconscious and potentially double bluff you.

Funnily enough that’s just reminded me of the DOND lightning spins slot when I got down to the last two boxes around 6 months ago. There was £50 or lightning spins and the banker offered me £105 to take the box. I took the money because, well off a 50p spin that’s an insane return at over 200x. But I’ll never forgive myself to this day, as I had lightning spins in my box. I’ve watched legitimate YouTube slot videos (not the fake scam demo ones) where the lightning spins round on the DOND slot pays INCREDIBLY well, over a 1000x in most cases. If I’d had declined the offer, would I have won the £50 instead? Who knows… but the reason I’m telling you this is because I’m not convinced slot result bonuses are completely pre determined.

A bit like the gamble option on golden winner grand chance, I’ve often gambled a 20p win and won 40p almost every time. I decided to gamble a £17 win for 5 free spins last week. The green part of the circle probably covered 90% it. Guess what… the dial landed in the red lol.

They can claim that as not only are they audited , it’s their business model to be trusted and legitimate .

I feel you are still connecting probability with the run you had (Good I’m told) over a period of time ; and then using that as “the norm” and I’m gonna go with maybe you have not played many years , the larger your set of data /history your opinion will change.

Thing is your “feeling” on how the slot played , has no real basis on the actual fact of the probability. Now if you played the same slot without break for sleep or anything else for continuous 500,000 Hours , then you would begin to see the RTP% odd matching closed stated play out a little better as (500,000 hours is just under 60 years) and AM /PM, white socks , black socks or whatever metric you are using really won’t matter

Sometimes you run good and sometimes you can run bad , and sometimes you can run REALLY GOOD… in the just over a decade I’ve been playing I’ve had super awesome runs a handful of times over 300 daily winning sessions( two notables taking $30 to over $37,000 and $17 to $140,000) the other 4200 daily sessions i ran meh or bad , will a handful of really shocking losses I would be devastated to share

 

[johnnymcc1966]

Either a bug, or that its just a stupid way of saying " better luck next time" or " you didnt win"

It could still be random but there might only be 1 prize in 100 that gives spins so 99 times out 100 is a loser, this is still considered random even tho its totally weighted.

I know for 100% virgin games free things like phoenix daily / weekly pick game was actually loyalty driven in that the prizes were manipulated based on your play, dunno if thats the same now but wouldnt surprise me if that was the case.

But most of them are just random with a very small chance to win anything significant. Promotions back then were far less regulated than maybe now so who knows.

On a side note I made a promotional tool for a land based arcade that the "lucky player" got to pick boxes to win a prize, yet unbeknown to the player the result was already determined by the staff ( based on player loyalty )

Was it legal? probably not but who's going to complain on a free cash giveaway?

Those Virgin Games (former Gamesys) are still giving prizes for loyalty on the daily games. You now can only win various amounts of money with the lower 3 or 4 prizes starting at £1 up to around £5. As a regular player of low stakes I've never yet got better than a £2 win. They really are not random at all as even the end of month prize game pays out between £1-£3 in prize money too,at best. If you dont deposit during the month at all you will get absolutely zero at the monthly free game.

 

[TheAddict]

I used to bash DOA, alot. I always felt the balance lasted longer between 1am and 7am, compared to 6pm - midnight. During the day seemed ok, just that those evening sessions that felt like they ended so shorty all the time, it eventually stuck in the back of my head I guess.
I didn't exactly believe it, and I assume it's just me remembering those evening killing sessions due to them, err, killing the evening. But it got to the point that if it were the that time of the evening I'd often wait a few hours till midnight before starting to grind the next reload bonus out, just for piece of mind.

There's some highly useful information for ya, no worries.