Spinia ( N1 Entertainment) changing terms

[jwholland]

After filing a formal complaint regarding licensing in Holland ( that they do not have, - thus offering illegal play)

They changed there terms suddenly, altering the first line of WHO CAN PLAY:
( site stated : Last updated: 22.08.2019)
“The website accepts players only from those countries and geographic regions where online gambling is allowed by law”
>>> clearly violating terms for me to even register let alone play<<<

To

( still says Last updated: 22.08.2019)
"By accessing and opening an account and using this website, you confirm and warrant that online gambling is legal and permitted in the jurisdiction where you are located and you will not use the website while resident or temporarily located in any jurisdiction that prohibits use of the website.
The availability of the services shall not be interpreted as an offer or invitation on our part to use the services in a country where such use is illegal.”

A major alteration in Terms, and I think changed after my complaints. The site stated the last update was on 22.08.2019, but the terms of 04.09.2019 were completely different.

This is a clear indication of malpractice, and potential fraudulent operation.

Spinia support chat on 02.10.19 confirmed that the last update was on 22.08.2019, and no changes were made after. Clearly not the case.
Recently they updated the dates suddenly, but screwed over the version number. Version dated to early 2019 was 1.6, followed by 22.08 and active one.

See Related Threads:

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• SPINA Casino Giving The Run-Around

 

[sufferinsilence]

Nobody can get a license in the Netherlands. The Dutch GC won't fine anyone that doesn't specifically target Dutch players. In this case they offered Ideal and that's seen as targeting Dutch players so they can actually fine them.

Anyway, so you made a complaint to the Dutch GC, they have contacted Spinia or slapped a fine on them and they updated their T&C's? Albeit they "forgot" to update the date on their T&C's. Now, don't get me wrong and I'm not trying to defend them for that oversight but they have amended their T&C's. If they also removed the Ideal payment option they're in the clear for the Dutch GC.

What exactly is it that you want to get out of this?

 

[jwholland]

They are conducting investigation.

And preventing from players falling in the trap, putting themselves at risk. Operations that put this in practice should not be trusted at all.

Changing the first rule of creating an account suddenly, to be able to dismiss statements made in my claim is deceptive ( as they were in violation to own terms).
They might have deleted ideal logo from site, but they still allow players from holland, misleading them. Stating that this is 'own responsibility' is malarky: why then block USA, Belgium, Italy ect. ect.

Funny thing is that one of the N1 entertainment reps ( This German cage fighter) actually stated targeting Holland earlier this year on YouTube (oeps) . They will get what they deserve. MGA will take action with some addition pressure, impacting the MGA license. Legit licensing in Holland is out of the question obviously, for at least 2 years after 2020.

in the mean while, why play at a casino that breaks obvious rules... See screenshot, restrictions on MGA licence in holland are very clear.

 

[Mouche12]

No, the gambling market is expected to open on 1 January 2021 and the registration process for casinos to obtain a Dutch license starts next year. Some casinos take extra precautions (no advertising on affiliate websites or closing Dutch player accounts for the time being) because they don't want to jeopardize their chances of getting a license.

 

[jwholland]

yep correct, so they cannot even apply for license after 2y cool-of period, as reports have been made, with extensive evidence proving violations. I'll make sure they include all operations under that MGA license. Everyone get what they deserve, eventually.

 

[sufferinsilence]

why then block USA, Belgium, Italy ect. ect.

Simple answer: there are clear gambling laws in those countries which also grant licenses so there are legal ways in obtaining one. Or in the case of the USA states decide if they want to allow online gambling, for example it's allowed in New Jersey but not in Nevada.

Until there is an actual law in the Netherlands it's very much a grey zone but like @Mouche12 points out alot of MGA licensed casino's will start to deny access to Dutch citizens until there actually is a clear law. The Dutch have been in the twilight zone when it comes to gambling for a long time now.

 

[jwholland]

It is in no way a grey zone.. it is forbidden. Why do you think Unibet, Bwin, Pokerstars ect are fined? Not allowing online gambling in toto, is crystal clear legislation.

And MGA licensing are governed by Maltese law. How can Maltese law overrule local law for players, impossible. In fact MGA license actually states this but in grey terms requires this to be enforced: that is why several countries are excluded. Only difference with Holland: limited and minimal enforcement.. So operators took the gamble, as risk of fines was minimal..

Lack of enforcement ( in the past, building) does not mean things are legal.. Driving over the speed limit, without hitting a speed trap, does not brand the violation suddenly legal.

 

[sufferinsilence]

They were fined because they specifically targeted Dutch players. Aslong as they didn't have easy payment options like Ideal, support in Dutch or have Dutch sounding casino names they were left alone by the GC.

That's what I meant with being in the grey zone.

 

[jwholland]

Offering services in other countries, requires playing by the rules of local governing law.. Always. Play should have been banned from the beginning, as Gambling authorities made clear. The were the first one fined, indeed because of dominant/active marketing role, getting noticed by enforcement, and got prioritised. Suddenly deleting IDEAL, does not change a bit. They all will be handled accordingly. All of these frauds.

 

[Mouche12]

By the same analogy, Dr JC, you could call the likes of Videoslots, Trada, Guts, etc. also frauds as they accept Dutch players. Are you going to report them to the KSA perhaps?

 

[jwholland]

Trada is in the list 100%, asking questions about licensing got my account blocked without notification.. still waiting for a few simple answers though..
Videoslots does not accept player from holland, so no, and have no experience at that place, so have cannot judge.

 

[Mouche12]

That is incorrect. Videoslots do accept players from Holland. I have been playing there for years. What do you mean Trada "is in the list?" This is a very trustworthy casino and not in violation of any laws.

 

[jwholland]

video slot terms state:
1.2 A person applying for a Videoslots Account warrants not being:

• a resident of Afghanistan, Algeria, American Samoa, Angola, Argentina, Australia, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Botswana, Bulgaria, Burma, Cote d'lvorie, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Egypt, , Eritrea Estonia, Ethiopia, France and any overseas French Territories, Fiji, Ghana, Greece, Guam, Guyana, Haiti, Holy See (Vatican City State), Hong Kong, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao PDR, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, Marianas Islands, Mozambique, Myanmar, the Netherlands, Nigeria, North Korea, Papua New Guinea, Pakistan, Palestinian Territory, Panama, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Qatar, Romania, Reunion, Rwanda, Samoa, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Singapore, Slovakia, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syrian Arabic Republic, Switzerland, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands, U.S. Virgin Islands, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United States of America, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen and Zimbabwe.
• acting on behalf of another party
• of limited legal capacity
• conducting criminal activities through his/her Videoslots account
• depositing funds which originates from criminal and other un-authorised activity
• depositing funds using a card which the account holder is not authorised to use

Trada was and still is in violation. And why should an account be blocked without notification, for filing a complaint? Yes I know why, because they toke a gamble: profits and minimal risk of getting fined. Fortunately things are changing.. Hate the attempt to cut off my head, and hope it dies down... Big mistake, Trada will be targeted. ( correction IS targeted)

 

[Mouche12]

Perhaps Videoslots can tune in about this rule which allegedly includes players from NL. And perhaps the Trada rep too, because I do not understand what you are saying. They are a top-notch casino, so it doesn't make any sense what you're saying, Dr JC.

In view of the above, why is it possible that I can still play at VS, as well as many other players from NL?

 

[maxd]

@jwholland : I'm not sure what you are on about but casinos have every right to change their Terms, indeed in many cases those changes are necessary. Thread title changed accordingly.

As to your accusations against Videoslots and Trada: you should know that these are Accredited sites here at Casinomeister. Any accusations you make had better be fair and based on facts. Failure to do so will put you in violation of our Forum Rules and get you kicked to the curb.

I strongly suggest you start making sense in your posts -- Google Translate is NOT sufficient -- and state your case clearly with supporting evidence.

Also, you would be wise to (re) read the Forum Rules , item 1.11 in particular. "Targeting" any casino is not the way to go about whatever it is you think you are trying to accomplish here.

 

[jwholland]

Problem in holland is that, law forbids active banning of sites.

Being able to, does not mean legal, as operators fail obviously. If I visit a US gun store online I can see the site, but the company will never ship it to holland , as a company they are required to check. Operators should never put a player at risk for this. Geolocation combined with citizenship determines applicable law and monitoring required.

 

[maxd]

Ok, let's start with your first post and the update of the Terms:

... This is a clear indication of malpractice, and potential fraudulent operation. ...

It is NOT a "clear incication" of any such thing. At worst they didn't update the datestamp, most likely they were in a rush and forgot. There is no "malpractice" there or any other such thing. Such accusations are groundless and intended only to damage the reputation of the properties named. That is "trolling" and our Forum Rules will tell you in no uncertain terms what that will get you.

As I've said: state your accusations clearly and with evidence. Otherwise you are attempting to discredit Accredited casinos without legitimate cause and you will be booted off the site if you persist.

 

[jwholland]

@maxd my post was about spinia, screens are in place.
- I never complained about videoslots, point me to that?
- Spinia is brought up by others in this topic, not by me.
- The fact that multiple casinos are now part this discussion eliminates your 'targeting claim'
- What supportive evidence do you request? Screenshots showing active law in place, combined with recent issued fines are in here, please elaborate.

 

[hhhelllo]

Are you mad because you lost a ton lof money? Don't get me.wrong, spinia has agents lying to players for pennies, vague dumb bonus terms to forfeit any winnings just because and playamo partners... lol

But just let them be

 

[jwholland]

Ok, let's start with your first post and the update of the Terms:


It is NOT a "clear incication" of any such thing. At worst they didn't update the date, more likely they were in a rush and forgot.

As I've said: state your accusations clearly and with evidence. Otherwise you are slagging off Accredited casinos without legitimate cause and you will be booted off the site if you persist.

Its about the most crucial part in every legal contract, the date.. but beside that they even denied changing the terms( while it did), so its not just 'forgetting the date'

 

[Conor@Trada]

And perhaps the Trada rep too

Hey folks,

I wish I could chime in on this one, but as this member has also raised an identical thread on a separate forum (Link can be supplied if it is allowed?) and they have received their final response on that platform, unfortunately, my hands are tied and I cannot make any other comments on this.

Conor

 

[jwholland]

Trada was not brought up by me in this topic, and a forum is for public debate.. Unless fake statements are made, not the case

 

[maxd]

Its about the most crucial part in every legal contract, the date.. ...

It clearly says "Last updated", not "this contract is effective as of ...". Again, either you misunderstand the intention or you are intentionally blowing it out of proportion.

When I say "state your case and provide evidence" I mean exactly that. State specifically what law is being violated and cite the sypporting evidence. Do it in point form to make it clear.

Please understand that you are being given the opportunity to clearly state your case and support it. Do so or don't, your choice, but if you do not then you are cordially invited to cease and desist.

And regarding Videoslots, you mentioned them, not me. If your intention got lost in translation then I remind you, Google Translate (or whatever) cannot be trusted to translate properly for you.

 

[maxd]

Trada was not brought up by me in this topic ...

Are you being intentionally difficult? YOU mentioned both Videoslots and Trada. And now you are claiming to have mentioned neither. WTF?

Trada was and still is in violation

Why you mentioned those isn't at all clear, hence my statements that you should be very much more clear about your accusations and intentions.

 

[jwholland]

It clearly says "Last updated", not "this contract is effective on ...". Again, either you misunderstand the intention or you are intentionally blowing out of proportion.

When I say "state your case and provide evidence" I mean exactly that. State specifically what law is being violated and cite the sypporting evidence. Do it in point form to make it clear.

Please understand that you are being given the opportunity to clearly state your case and support it. Do so or don't, your choice, but if you do not then you are cordially invited to cease and desist.

And regarding Videoslots, you mentioned them, not me. If your intention got lost in translation then I remind you, Google Translate (or whatever) cannot be trusted to translate properly for you.

How is the last update to a contract not the one in effect? As you can see they also mention same initial draft date.

Well maybe I'm a bit fired up at the moment, I'll cool off.

 

[jwholland]

" By the same analogy, Dr JC, you could call the likes of Videoslots, Trada, Guts, etc. also frauds as they accept Dutch players. Are you going to report them to the KSA perhaps?"

not by me, first mention of others.

 

[maxd]

Well maybe I'm a bit fired up at the moment, I'll cool off.

That sounds like an excellent idea. Please proceed as requested -- clearly stating your accusations and citing evidence -- when you feel you can do so calmly.

 

[Mouche12]

Oooh, Dr. JC, are you trying to shift the blame onto me? Perhaps you should report me as well, not to the KSA of course, but to the moderators of this forum??

 

[jwholland]

ooh no, this is not blaming anyone. The admin reprimanded me for brining in other operations. I merely pointed to your post, and that I replied to that.
This is a public forum for discussion, and we are all grownups. Of course there are rules, but complaints/questions backed up by legit evidence, should be only followed by valid arguments that either explain, or debunk them. In the case of Trada: they can simply state that players from holland do play legal, and provide valid arguments. Why not share this good news with everyone?

 

[Oscar Arnhem]

@jwholland , i dont know what your problem is, maybe you lost a lot off money

So this will make you happy

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[jwholland]

@Oscar Arnhem I only gamble with money I can spare, its the game, winning not required. What I do care about is a fair game, provided by operations that show due diligence, for maximum player protections.

I'm not doing this for myself, but for other players in Holland. Please take note that these operations can void any winnings as you breach terms: get it?

"By accessing and opening an account and using this website, you confirm and warrant that online gambling is legal and permitted in the jurisdiction where you are located and you will not use the website while resident or temporarily located in any jurisdiction that prohibits use of the website"

And even if they would cash out, there is the risk of NL. government confiscating it.

 

[Oscar Arnhem]

@Oscar Arnhem I only gamble with money I can spare, its the game, winning not required. What I do care about is a fair game, provided by operations that show due diligence, for maximum player protections.

I'm not doing this for myself, but for other players in Holland. Please take note that these operations can void any winnings as you breach terms: get it?

"By accessing and opening an account and using this website, you confirm and warrant that online gambling is legal and permitted in the jurisdiction where you are located and you will not use the website while resident or temporarily located in any jurisdiction that prohibits use of the website"

And even if they would cash out, there is the risk of NL. government confiscating it.

just LOL

 

[jwholland]

What is funny? Please explain and come with arguments proving me wrong ( I might, nobody is perfect)

 

[sufferinsilence]

I guess this has become a thread now for people in the know of a similar thread on another forum... Feels like a waste of time I tried to reply in a serious manner last night

 

[jwholland]

Hey folks,

I wish I could chime in on this one, but as this member has also raised an identical thread on a separate forum (Link can be supplied if it is allowed?) and they have received their final response on that platform, unfortunately, my hands are tied and I cannot make any other comments on this.

Conor

Dear Conor,
Regardless of my complaint, can you at least confirm the legality of play by Dutch accounts, with your Terms? This question can be raised by any other Dutch account, and in no reason what so ever, should be of concern to you if everything is in order. In fact providing this confirmation will only benefit you.
Pending lawsuit is not effected by this, as its stated in T&C
"
6. Legal use

1. You agree to use the Services only for lawful purposes and in a way that does not infringe the rights of, restrict or inhibit anyone else's use and enjoyment of the Services.
2. The Services are not provided for use by:
   1. Individuals under the legal age limit in the jurisdiction of their residence;
   2. Individuals under the legal gambling age in the jurisdiction of their residence or the country in which they are accessing the Website; or
   3. Individuals accessing the Website from jurisdictions that regard it to be illegal to do so.

 

[jwholland]

I guess this has become a thread now for people in the know of a similar thread on another forum... Feels like a waste of time I tried to reply in a serious manner last night

Yes is noticed, thank you for reply in the beginning, opinions are more then welcome

 

[homerbert]

Hello @jwholland !

I'm truly sorry for a late reply.

Currently, each company can decide - did they want to accept NL customers or not. We do not actively target customers from your target at the moment, we do not have any campaigns, we do not have NL website language, we do not offer customer support on NL (dutch, I know guys - sorry ).

I've read all your transcripts with CS and I want to confirm we will not refund your losses. In case you win - we will pay your winnings without any troubles. That's the thing. If you trying to make this community support you in refunding of your losses - it's not the best community. People here can understand what happens.

P.S.#1 - Spinia team operated not my team.

P.S.#2 - It's my personal opinion (really personal). People like you make the whole industry much worse. Please, do not use statements like 'I'm trying to help other dutch players'. You don't. You just make things much worse for them. If you feel you have gambling problems - let me know or let CS casino team know - you will not be able to play in our casinos anymore.

P.S. #3 - if you feel something is wrong with us, please PAB:



So far, Max is one of the best with dealing complaints and judging them completely honest. You will not have any better chance. Especially taking note that all other mediators discarded your complaint.

I really sorry for your troubles, but I can't see why we are blamed here.

Br,

V.

 

[jwholland]

Hello @jwholland !

I'm truly sorry for a late reply.

Currently, each company can decide - did they want to accept NL customers or not. We do not actively target customers from your target at the moment, we do not have any campaigns, we do not have NL website language, we do not offer customer support on NL (dutch, I know guys - sorry ).

I've read all your transcripts with CS and I want to confirm we will not refund your losses. In case you win - we will pay your winnings without any troubles. That's the thing. If you trying to make this community support you in refunding of your losses - it's not the best community. People here can understand what happens.

P.S.#1 - Spinia team operated not my team.

P.S.#2 - It's my personal opinion (really personal). People like you make the whole industry much worse. Please, do not use statements like 'I'm trying to help other dutch players'. You don't. You just make things much worse for them. If you feel you have gambling problems - let me know or let CS casino team know - you will not be able to play in our casinos anymore.

P.S. #3 - if you feel something is wrong with us, please PAB:



So far, Max is one of the best with dealing complaints and judging them completely honest. You will not have any better chance. Especially taking note that all other mediators discarded your complaint.

I really sorry for your troubles, but I can't see why we are blamed here.

Br,

V.

Thank you so much for replying.
Insinuating a gambling addiction without knowing my account or me as a person is offensive. If you do have proof for that, please inform me so I can get help.

#1 Ok but can you speak for them? And if things are so transparent please list team involved, nothing to hide?
# 2 In what ways make my comments it worse for dutch players ? Please explain? You cannot ask questions? It should be no problem for you to debunk statements or anwser questions with valid arguments and references.

- Instead of calling me gambling addict, can you take a look at screenshots in primary post? Changing terms within identical dated version?
- How is every dutch account not in violation with your own terms below?
- Its surprising that you breach own terms, paying to dutch accounts, knowing this is restricted, should not even be possible in the first place.
- Players from Holland are at risk of facing criminal charges by district authority ( OM) if playing at illegal casino.

"By accessing and opening an account and using this website, you confirm and warrant that online gambling is legal and permitted in the jurisdiction where you are located and you will not use the website while resident or temporarily located in any jurisdiction that prohibits use of the website.

- And I do not want a refund, eat if for breakfast, next to your pint of vodka probably.

#3 Yes I DM'd max, but to be clear already submitted to NL gambling authorise, MGA has been in the loop the whole time, and it does not stop after that.

And I'm not blaming people, just asking questions, should be of no concerns.

Can you please reply to the questions?

 

[bowki]

- And I do not want a refund, eat if for breakfast, next to your pint of vodka probably.

If I were Homer I wouldnt even reply to you anymore after this.

 

[jwholland]

If I were Homer I wouldnt even reply to you anymore after this.

calling a person gambling addict is allowed?

 

[bowki]

Thats not what he said.

calling a person gambling addict is allowed?

He surely doesnt need me to defend him, but I cant see where he called you a gambling addict.

 

[jwholland]

P.S.#2 - It's my personal opinion (really personal). People like you make the whole industry much worse. Please, do not use statements like 'I'm trying to help other dutch players'. You don't. You just make things much worse for them. If you feel you have gambling problems - let me know or let CS casino team know - you will not be able to play in our casinos anymore.

I'm blamed for making it worse for dutch players, followed by the question if I have a gambling problem? How does this relate?

let him answer the questions, instead of diverting from.

 

[Mouche12]

BTW, I have reported Dr JC to MaxD, requesting him to ban this member. I strongly believe he's a troll (pretending to be a good-doer).

 

[jwholland]

Max can contact me, for full personal ID ect no problem. Account matches them.
@Mouche12 please show the evidence why you suspect me of being troll? As you make this statement?

 

[Mouche12]

I've explained it to MaxD , and I don't have to explain it to you, you already know it.

 

[jwholland]

I've explained it to MaxD , and I don't have to explain it to you, you already know it.

I do not, please help me on this. And please post your DM to max also public, as you accused me in public. Let everyone judge, why not?

 

[Mouche12]

Okay, the category you fall into is:

Concern Troll: A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of “concern,” to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with authority or power. They point out problems that don’t really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.

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, (2007)

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[Harry_BKK]

I do not, please help me on this. And please post your DM to max also public, as you accused me in public. Let everyone judge, why not?

Time to say "goodbye".

You had your chance and decided to blow it.

 

[goatwack]

I'll hazard a guess that at the point of the 'vodka for breakfast comment' Max or other mods won't need further convincing by members to have this poster axed

 

[jwholland]

Problem is I do exist, can show proof of that, to MaxD no problem.
I'm asking the wrong questions obviously?
Never been convicted of anything, and are more then happy to provide arguments of additional evidence for my remarks. Verified by the admins, not problem, nothing to hide.

And if my concerns can be debunked, perfect, we learn every day