Stake, Streamers and Crypto Casinos

[News Hound]

Britain's Sky News this morning took aim at Stake Casino, streamers that stream on their platform and crypto casinos in general

Read the full article here: Stake, Streamers and Crypto Casinos

 

[Webzcas]

Ok, so there are several different roads one could go down concerning this. Stake and their licensing, why do people stream their gaming sessions and why do people watch them, the ethics if any of streaming said content and is it good or bad for the industry?

Add to the mix the proliferation of crypto casinos and those casinos that operate 'offshore' that readily accept UK players no questions asked, even though they do not have a UKGC issued operators licence.

Well if as Sanya Burgess attests that:

Casinos found to be operating in the UK may also be breaking the law.

The UK’s gambling regulator, the Gambling Commission, is now investigating my findings. And a leading charity says what has been uncovered is a clear breach of UK laws and is "shocking".

Seriously, you mean this is the FIRST time the Gambling Commission have been made aware of offshore casinos accepting UK players? LOLOL

Turn it in!!!

If they have been unaware of them up until now, then I suggest they have been hanging out in the Torra Borra caves where one has no internet access. ROFL

The UKGC are all too aware of these offshore operators, many of whom target problem gamblers - Non GamStop sites anyone?

Yet they are powerless to do anything about it. Or so it would seem by their inaction.

In relation as to why UK players choose to play offshore, perhaps it is because the UKGC have over regulated the iGaming industry, but I guess that does not fit Sanya Burgess's narrative. Source of Wealth check and full bloods and swab tests too anyone?

As for streamers. I get it some people like watching them, fair enough. But like in all walks of life, some, not all are alas parasitic in nature...

There I have said my piece. Going to now take cover


Read more about Stake Casino HERE.

 

[goatwack]

It took a hit-piece by the MSM to bring this to the UKGC's attention. Namely, that streamers have gone too far in their pursuits, and that celebrity- endorsed casinos may indeed not be completely legit, all the more so with Drake.

We may now see the UKGC spring into action within the next five years, whilst having already lost the battle.

And as much as they'd love to purge problem gamblers off their books, as players run to the sunny shores of Curacao, the real reason they'd attempt to stifle the scourge of overseas Crypto play is because money is leaving the UK, nothing else

See Related:
Can Cryptoleo Casino be trusted? Find out here.

 

[maxd]

... The UKGC are all too aware of these offshore operators, many of whom target problem gamblers - Non GamStop sites anyone?

Yet they are powerless to do anything about it. Or so it would seem by their inaction. ...

For me the unfathomable part of this is that Stake@UKGC has a clear set of rules to conduct themselves by BUT Stake@Curaçao can do whatever they like while the UKGC pretends that they don't exist. How hypocritical is that!

Policeman stops a guy with a human head in the passenger seat:
Policeman: Sir, murder is illegal. You can't commit murder here.
BlackHatGuy: But I didn't commit murder here, I did it over there.
Policeman: Ah well, you're good to go then. Drive safely, and have a nice day!

You can't bang on endlessly about claiming the moral high ground and stopping something that is nasty and illegal if all you're really saying is "just don't do it in my back yard". I get jurisdictional boundaries but doing nothing -- when you know full well that the same guys that you license here are just crossing the border to do exactly what you say they shouldn't be doing -- is spineless and hypocritical. At least have the guts to tell them "your operation does not meet our standards" and tell them to bugger off.

- Max

 

[YouTubeSlots]

I finally decided to give B.C games a go a few weeks ago using a v.pn. having seen MR Bandit having a lot of fun there with
quick spins, auto play, bonus buys, etc

it made me curious and excited to try them out...

And i have to say i have had not one issue what so ever in terms of withdrawals etc.
Didn't even need to make an account and you can deposit/withdraw within a couple minutes.
Total opposite of the U.K scene. Having said that, so far i have made a few £50 deposits and withdrew round £500 - £700

I do dread to think what could happen one day if i buy a bonus buy on some stupid no limit city game and win £12000 I dread to think what might happen then in terms of the withdrawal. But that is my only gripe about playing here.
That chance that i could be devastated one day if i hit big here and have loads of issues with k.y.c

 

[FroggyScream]

It might be hypocritical of me, but I think the government should just make sure the casinos (corporations) payout, but not limit the consumer (individual) as to where they play.

If Stake is paying out, leave them alone. The thing is they are both running ads and also not paying out, and it's this 1`-2 combo of stupidity that has a target on their back.

Ig BC.games keeps paying out, I think they'll stay under the radar. History says that it is highly likely they'll get greedy in a few years, though.

 

[slot_zombie]

For me the unfathomable part of this is that Stake@UKGC has a clear set of rules to conduct themselves by BUT Stake@Curaçao can do whatever they like while the UKGC pretends that they don't exist. How hypocritical is that!

You can't bang on endlessly about claiming the moral high ground and stopping something that is nasty and illegal if all you're really saying is "just don't do it in my back yard". I get jurisdictional boundaries but doing nothing -- when you know full well that the same guys that you license here are just crossing the border to do exactly what you say they shouldn't be doing -- is spineless and hypocritical. At least have the guts to tell them "your operation does not meet our standards" and tell them to bugger off.

- Max

The thing is that Stake can, and do, ban any accounts found to be accessing the site from prohibited jurisdictions. They also have a closed door "go away" screen in the face of casual wanderers.

It's only people continuing to sail and pretending to be from Ireland (cough) that cause issues. I fully expect to be caught one day and that will be 100% on me. The site is too good not to continue to chance it in the meantime.

 

[AndrewPearson]

Why was one of the most famous people in the world streaming himself gambling online?

The answer lies in the controversial world of crypto casinos – where beneath the neon lights and high stakes celebrations, lies a web of secrets.

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[Webzcas]

Hi Andrew, we have a thread concerning this already. Will merge your post into it.

 

[Webzcas]

@AndrewPearson also see Stake, Streamers and Crypto Casinos

 

[Reelsoffun]

I finally decided to give B.C games a go a few weeks ago using a v.pn. having seen MR Bandit having a lot of fun there with
quick spins, auto play, bonus buys, etc

I do dread to think what could happen one day if i buy a bonus buy on some stupid no limit city game and win £12000 I dread to think what might happen then in terms of the withdrawal. But that is my only gripe about playing here.
That chance that i could be devastated one day if i hit big here and have loads of issues with k.y.c

From my experience and from many people I know personally, what would most likely happen if you won £12,000 is that it would be in the bank same as your other withdrawals. Certainly at the moment there is no reason to think any different.

I know people that have cashed higher than 20k with no issues.

 

[Webzcas]

It all depends on which operator you are playing at IMO. There are some decent trustworthy crypto casinos around, just as there are many many rogue ones too.

Bottom line is, players need to do their own due diligence and research before they decide to join and play at any site, Crypto or otherwise.

 

[irish-ranger]

From my experience and from many people I know personally, what would most likely happen if you won £12,000 is that it would be in the bank same as your other withdrawals. Certainly at the moment there is no reason to think any different.

I know people that have cashed higher than 20k with no issues.

Dont know if that's the case with all these outfits, there was a guy who signed up to K8? As he seen thon rock in roller guy playing there, low and behold he hit 25k and the casino just blanked the guy wouldn't process the withdrawal and talk to the hand .

 

[satchnz]

I read the article first thing this morning, and was going to post a link to it here before this thread appeared. But I decided not to given it’s a piece written by someone who knows nothing about online gambling, and referred their findings to an authority that knows nothing about online gambling.

Yawn.

 

[jasonuk]

Ok, so there are several different roads one could go down concerning this. Stake and their licensing, why do people stream their gaming sessions and why do people watch them, the ethics if any of streaming said content and is it good or bad for the industry?

Slot streamers have existed for years, so that alone isn't the reason - in the earlier days fake streamers (such as Mr Twat with or without Hat) were kept in check because the vast majority of the community pointed out they were fake and education did (barely) enough... but as the proliferation of fake streamers grew, and previously honest streamers went rogue chasing their own pot of gold, that message became more and more difficult to maintain because fewer and fewer people were mentioning it.

That significant percentages of viewers still believe these people are playing with real money - despite the admission it's fake (terms like "fill money"), they've lost their net worth multiple times over, and they never talk about withdrawals - truly baffles me, I guess they can't admit that their streamer is now dishonest and/or fraudulent.

Saying that, I used to watch both Bandit and Rolla, and their crypto content has been increasingly painful... their play style has changed so much that it's difficult to tell if they're still playing with real money or not. The difference here is they started from a position of being a genuine streamer, rather than the previous category who see it as a "influencer gig" and it doesn't matter who gets hurt - as long as it's not their fault!

Seriously, you mean this is the FIRST time the Gambling Commission have been made aware of offshore casinos accepting UK players? LOLOL

Turn it in!!!

If they have been unaware of them up until now, then I suggest they have been hanging out in the Torra Borra caves where one has no internet access. ROFL

The UKGC are all too aware of these offshore operators, many of whom target problem gamblers - Non GamStop sites anyone?

Yet they are powerless to do anything about it. Or so it would seem by their inaction.

The recent updates from the UKGC have been pretty scandalous - we've collectively accused them of being asleep at the wheel, and it's much worse as they're still asleep in bed having turned the alarm clock off. There is going to be an element of powerless because they're offshore (same with how the KSA can't tackle rogue operators), but for the UKGC to have absolutely no clue on this, 3-4 years into the crypto slots boom, is staggering...

From my experience and from many people I know personally, what would most likely happen if you won £12,000 is that it would be in the bank same as your other withdrawals. Certainly at the moment there is no reason to think any different.

I know people that have cashed higher than 20k with no issues.

I agree that it's important people don't tar everyone with the same brush - we've seen our share of scandals in the UK market, Football Index allegedly behaving akin to a pyramid scheme and the UKGC took no action until they went under in 2021. Actions often speak louder than words, and the most prolific crypto casinos and providers, the ones that are happy to peddle fake money to entice viewers, addicts and even underage players are the ones that should have a big flashing "warning" sign over them... because they can and they will pull the rug at the first opportunity.

<edit>To add to the K8 comment from @irish-ranger earlier, the player raised the issue on rolla's forum 3 weeks ago - been no public statement from any party since on the topic.</edit>

 

[AndrewPearson]

Here is the video.
It says at the end the ASA have said "Anyone advertising Crypto Casinos to the UK is breaking the law"
So how does Chip get round it? His legal teams?

 

[AndrewPearson]

Slot streamers have existed for years, so that alone isn't the reason - in the earlier days fake streamers (such as Mr Twat with or without Hat) were kept in check because the vast majority of the community pointed out they were fake and education did (barely) enough... but as the proliferation of fake streamers grew, and previously honest streamers went rogue chasing their own pot of gold, that message became more and more difficult to maintain because fewer and fewer people were mentioning it.

That significant percentages of viewers still believe these people are playing with real money - despite the admission it's fake (terms like "fill money"), they've lost their net worth multiple times over, and they never talk about withdrawals - truly baffles me, I guess they can't admit that their streamer is now dishonest and/or fraudulent.

Saying that, I used to watch both Bandit and Rolla, and their crypto content has been increasingly painful... their play style has changed so much that it's difficult to tell if they're still playing with real money or not. The difference here is they started from a position of being a genuine streamer, rather than the previous category who see it as a "influencer gig" and it doesn't matter who gets hurt - as long as it's not their fault!


The recent updates from the UKGC have been pretty scandalous - we've collectively accused them of being asleep at the wheel, and it's much worse as they're still asleep in bed having turned the alarm clock off. There is going to be an element of powerless because they're offshore (same with how the KSA can't tackle rogue operators), but for the UKGC to have absolutely no clue on this, 3-4 years into the crypto slots boom, is staggering...


I agree that it's important people don't tar everyone with the same brush - we've seen our share of scandals in the UK market, Football Index allegedly behaving akin to a pyramid scheme and the UKGC took no action until they went under in 2021. Actions often speak louder than words, and the most prolific crypto casinos and providers, the ones that are happy to peddle fake money to entice viewers, addicts and even underage players are the ones that should have a big flashing "warning" sign over them... because they can and they will pull the rug at the first opportunity.

<edit>To add to the K8 comment from @irish-ranger earlier, the player raised the issue on rolla's forum 3 weeks ago - been no public statement from any party since on the topic.</edit>

Were is the post?

 

[interlog]

Very one sided article.

The article doesn't but should have also gone into the other reason why crypto casinos in the UK are now more popular, and that is the draconian measures that the UKGC has taken that puts UK gamblers off using a UK licensed casino. We all know what these measures are, yet the journalist who wrote the article didn't do any research on it and questioned the UKGC / Government about this.

 

[slot_zombie]

I want to live in the Classy Beef house.

 

[Webzcas]

Very one sided article.

The article doesn't but should have also gone into the other reason why crypto casinos in the UK are now more popular, and that is the draconian measures that the UKGC has taken that puts UK gamblers off using a UK licensed casino. We all know what these measures are, yet the journalist who wrote the article didn't do any research on it and questioned the UKGC / Government about this.

Yes, hence I referenced that in the article when covering this on Casinomeister. It is as if the journalist has a one sided agenda and narrative, ie all forms of gambling are bad.

In the main the reason MOST people play offshore is as you state down to the draconian measures put in place by the UKGC. Which are policed with massive 7 figure fines levied against operators. Hence when a player tries to cash out say £50 from Casumo for example, they are made to jump over more hurdles than Sally Gunnell in a 400 metres hurdles final.

 

[jasonuk]

Yes, hence I referenced that in the article when covering this on Casinomeister. It is as if the journalist has a one sided agenda and narrative, ie all forms of gambling are bad.

I think this is where a lot of the problems come from too - where people jump on their high horse and conflate very different narratives as one. This happened repeatedly when Twitch went into meltdown over fake gambling streams...

The opinions fell into roughly:

• All gambling is bad - either full stop (you're going to hate the biggest gamble of them all, The Game of Life) or with opinionated exclusions (and naturally some of those were among the worst offenders)
• Gambling streams are bad - some wanted a blanket ban, some wanted age-gating, some allowing slower forms like betting and poker but excluding dopamine traps like slots.
• Fraudulent gambling streams are bad - closer to the general consensus here, but with the obvious issue of self-policing, which people aren't going to do when they can be dishonest and get the bag instead.

So instead of focusing on the real problem (fraud and dishonesty), it became a rant about gambling and other "non-gaming" content on Twitch... I guess someone should tell Amazon that because they've been streaming TV and Sports for years at this point. ?

Were is the post?

If you mean the K8 comment, the post is at

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- but be aware there isn't much beyond a barebones opening complaint (and they were advised to DM one of the admins, so it's unclear if or when there will be any further updates), the rest of the thread goes off on different tangents about terms and conditions, and misunderstanding the relationship between crypto operators and TGP Europe (explained here on Casinomeister).

Very one sided article.

The article doesn't but should have also gone into the other reason why crypto casinos in the UK are now more popular, and that is the draconian measures that the UKGC has taken that puts UK gamblers off using a UK licensed casino. We all know what these measures are, yet the journalist who wrote the article didn't do any research on it and questioned the UKGC / Government about this.

In the wider picture it's a push and a pull - the push of draconian measures, and the pull of fake streamers promising untold (and unrealised) riches by bombarding their viewers with dopamine hits. A balanced article would discuss both, and while the article looks very pretty, it gets a lot of the fundamentals wrong...

• Twitch hasn't seen a 75% reduction in gambling viewership* - as we've discussed here on CM it dipped temporarily after the rule change, but has largely recovered and is now hidden in a number of secondary categories, with English-speaking streams replaced with Spanish and Russian ones.
• Completely misses the relationship between Stake and Kick, and that many of these actors have been working together for a number of years with Stake.
• Blindly assumes numbers as fact - that $360m figure quoted has already been debunked multiple times, the vast majority of it being casino credits (i.e. worthless), which
  You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
  .
• Of course the casinos aren't operating in the UK, but the affiliates sometimes are... and blindly claiming "promotion of the casino was legal" (referring to Drake) is a big error, given it often isn't. If the UKGC wasn't asleep at the wheel (or as we discovered, completely asleep with the alarm clock turned off), they would be taking action against UK-based affiliates promoting these sites... as other countries have done so.
• All the focus is on the operators, but the providers aren't really mentioned at all - given the amount of money being shovelled into crypto-friendly and monopoly-friendly promotions, and that those providers are always being played by said streamers. A topic we've started to cover more here on CM, and I expect regulators will need to step their game up quickly.

It's important for the discussion to happen, but misleading information only helps the bad guys...

<edit>To back this up - taking a 100k ballpark figure for pre-ban, at this moment there are 32.8k watching "Casino Jackpot", 17.3k watching Slots, 17.3k also watching "Virtual Casino", 4.2k watching Poker, 2.5k watching "Crypto" and a few other smaller categories... that's 75k viewers (whether real or not) right now... and I'm not even cherry-picking an optimal time of day. It's entirely plausible at this point that the number has gone up because the outrage was English-focused, and the current audience isn't... so expect Twitch Gambling Outrage 2.0 in a few months. </edit>

 

[goatwack]

Hardly the exposé we all thought we needed, but enough to get it into the public consciousness.

It sets a narrative from which the Media and the UKGC can launch their crusade against the nebulous Crypto world, of which Stake appear to be its poster child presently.

Trial by media, 'Crypto bad' and some streamer clips do not a full picture make. Nor will there be a shred of self-critique from the UKGC on how this actually came to be. Yet more importantly, it's only hit their HQ alarms to sound out "This is not a drill" because UK money is leaving these lands and being spent elsewhere; everything else is just filler.

Streamers hitting the apex of make-believe and using fake money has been apparent to anyone with eyes for.....ever

Drake being a terrible rapper and dimwittedly accepting lucrative sponsorships without knowing its harmful effects should surprise.....no one

And blotting out 'VPNs' from these pieces is about the worst-kept secret around, given that geo-blocked workarounds are positively encouraged by many non-UK-accepting casinos *clutches pearls*

I await Sky News and co to maybe one day expose the failings of the UKGC and how they single-handedly brought slotting in the UK to heel, and how they indirectly assisted in players' opting to go elsewhere. Might be a while

 

[Smithyy]

I think this brings up an interesting avenue, which I'm curious to see whether the UKGC will follow or not. You've had the likes of Chipmonkz Slots, Fruity Slots, etc, who have been found promoting non-UKGC licensed casino in the past (by accident, of course), and they always appear to have gotten a pass. Now, things have changed slightly; Jimbo Slots and Craig Slots, for example, are "BC.Game ambassadors" - and while they claim to be living outside of the UK, I think it's pretty undeniable that they're targeting UK viewers with their streams. The Bandit, streams at BC.GAME but is clever enough not to directly advertise this (instead, in his videos, instructing viewers to "head to my website if you want to find out where I'm playing, why, etc".

This isn't a bash of these three streamers, either - who, in my opinion, are actually pretty transparent and open compared to the likes of most online casino streamers today - it's more the fact that the casinos they're working with are quite clearly aware they're marketing their services to UK players, and are basically saying "we don't care."

You can see in

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on the Bandit's website, for example, some of the regular members there are pointing out that what he's doing is potentially breaking the law.

As a UK player myself, I empthanise completely with any UK player who wants to find a crypto casino to play at. I can't recommend brands or names, but I myself have played at non-UKGC licensed casinos for 7-8 years, and never once have been refused a withdrawal. In fact, even when one casino found I was in the UK, they still paid every penny in my account to my external crypto wallet - they just shut my account after.

What I do worry about, is that this is just going to lead to even more restrictions for UK players. How long until the UK Gov simply declares it illegal for PLAYERS to gamble at offshore casinos. The UKGC has completely alienated players with arbitrary restrictions. Sure, ban bonus buys - removing autoplay? Taking away Quickspin? It's just ridiculous and just pushes more players to unlicensed sites/those that shouldn't be accepting UK players, but that do.

I also would not be at all surprised if the UK Gambling Commission and/or the ASA come down hard and fast on these streamers. I'm sure many would welcome this move, others (myself included, I think) would be against it. The one area I DO care about is responsible gambling - and while GAMSTOP was an excellent scheme, its usefulness IMO is decreasing by the day as it's now easier than ever for UK players to join crypto sites even if they're self-excluded in the UK. And this is a problem that does need to be addressed in my eyes.

 

[jasonuk]

I also would not be at all surprised if the UK Gambling Commission and/or the ASA come down hard and fast on these streamers. I'm sure many would welcome this move, others (myself included, I think) would be against it. The one area I DO care about is responsible gambling - and while GAMSTOP was an excellent scheme, its usefulness IMO is decreasing by the day as it's now easier than ever for UK players to join crypto sites even if they're self-excluded in the UK. And this is a problem that does need to be addressed in my eyes.

If they are based in the UK, I think they have to... gambling is a regulated activity similar to financial services, and after getting caught out with the previous NFT and Crypto phase the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) and ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) have been more proactive warning influencers about promoting illegal financial advertisements. An influencer or streamer is still a business, and a regulator allowing a UK-based business to promote unlicensed gambling / financial instruments to UK-based viewers would be a big problem.

I kind of expect that to be what happens - they can't touch the operator (because they're based in Curacao) but go after the UK-based affiliates instead... even though many of them have long left for sunnier climbs.

 

[Guntis]

I read the article first thing this morning, and was going to post a link to it here before this thread appeared. But I decided not to given it’s a piece written by someone who knows nothing about online gambling, and referred their findings to an authority that knows nothing about online gambling.

Yawn.

That Sky article looks like a promo action itself - full of high-lighted keywords, phrases, quotes, flashy gifs, big win moments, and mentions. Free UK traffic to stake.com and those streamers, in other words. The actual content quality is of one who usually writes entertainment stories for kids.

 

[Smithyy]

I think it's worth pointing out that while Stake do appear to have been singled out - they are also one of the few crypto casinos to operate legally in the UK (via a United Kingdom Gambling Commission (UKGC) license), and then in the rest of the world with their Curacao license. I, however, doubt the UKGC will take a positive view on their non-UK licensed activities, whether we agree with that or not.

Edit: Stake's UK business are not able to accept crypto.

 

[SuperTed88]

LOL, the U

 

[jasonuk]

I think it's worth pointing out that while Stake do appear to have been singled out - they are also one of the few crypto casinos to operate legally in the UK (via a United Kingdom Gambling Commission (UKGC) license), and then in the rest of the world with their Curacao license. I, however, doubt the UKGC will take a positive view on their non-UK licensed activities, whether we agree with that or not.

Edit: Stake's UK business are not able to accept crypto.

As we've discussed on other threads, I wouldn't put too much weight on this - and I'd consider it largely irrelevant.

It's a white label used by a number of offshore operators as an entry point to sponsor sports teams in the UK. The casino operator itself offers two providers - one who is a leading partner in their monopoly money "enterprises", the other nobody has heard of.

Given the elaborate corporate structures involved, who knows how much (if any) overlap there is between the two organisations, or if it's literally payment for a name and a piece of paper.

 

[shepster]

Word of warning in relation to bc.game. I deposited £500 over the course of a few weeks, went to withdraw £600 yesterday and was asked to verify my identity… waiting to hear back on what happens now, but even my most optimistic self has to concede my money is lost.

 

[Webzcas]

Word of warning in relation to bc.game. I deposited £500 over the course of a few weeks, went to withdraw £600 yesterday and was asked to verify my identity… waiting to hear back on what happens now, but even my most optimistic self has to concede my money is lost.

Interestingly @kou187 mentioned the same thing happened to him at bc.game in this post here Are crypto casinos breaking the law? - Casinomeister Forum

 

[jasonuk]

Dont know if that's the case with all these outfits, there was a guy who signed up to K8? As he seen thon rock in roller guy playing there, low and behold he hit 25k and the casino just blanked the guy wouldn't process the withdrawal and talk to the hand .

If you mean the K8 comment, the post is at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- but be aware there isn't much beyond a barebones opening complaint (and they were advised to DM one of the admins, so it's unclear if or when there will be any further updates)…

It's been a few weeks since we last discussed it (on 20th September), was hoping to hear some good news from the poster but saddened to report it's taken a rather dark turn. The OP returned a week later to indicate they still hadn't been paid (after four weeks) and no further public updates in the three weeks since, but also the tragic news that their friend committed suicide after losing all their money on that site and Stake.

Additionally, the gulf between streamer and community seems to be widening - as the former promotes an "ever growing community of degenerates" (from yesterday's stream on Twitch, although the stream VOD has since disappeared) and the latter is realising the KYC trap being sprung on them, the hypocrisy of "responsible gambling" when pushing gamstop and crypto at the same time, and the lack of promised transparency.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Are u referring to Rollas stream from yesterday? I was gonna catch up with that today but noticed it was not available?? What’s the story there?

 

[jasonuk]

Are u referring to Rollas stream from yesterday? I was gonna catch up with that today but noticed it was not available?? What’s the story there?

It's tough to tell from the stream itself, the last couple of minutes he seemed distracted by something before the stream went dead (in a way that chat assumed it was a technical issue - he'd been live for 2 1/2 hours and didn't say anything about ending or switching) - but he started posting links to the fake platform instead shortly afterwards. I refuse to support streams over there so no clue if he said any more on the other side, sorry.

 

[nisosbar]

the tragic news that their friend committed suicide after losing all their money on that site

That is super horrible. Keep in mind that from what I have heard, this sort of thing happens frequently in Las Vegas and Macau; i.e., it's not limited to online crypto casinos.

I remember during the hold em poker glory days, playing in Atlantic City at the Hilton's casino, the mature lady dealer mentioned for some reason, "... but then, I don't gamble, so there you go." To a newbie, a bizarre statement, a card dealer in a casino who doesn't gamble...? But when you consider how miserable life can turn for those who don't respect limits (and how much of that she had then observed), then it can begin to make sense.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

It's tough to tell from the stream itself, the last couple of minutes he seemed distracted by something before the stream went dead (in a way that chat assumed it was a technical issue - he'd been live for 2 1/2 hours and didn't say anything about ending or switching) - but he started posting links to the fake platform instead shortly afterwards. I refuse to support streams over there so no clue if he said any more on the other side, sorry.

Fake platform???

 

[jasonuk]

That is super horrible. Keep in mind that from what I have heard, this sort of thing happens frequently in Las Vegas and Macau; i.e., it's not limited to online crypto casinos.

I remember during the hold em poker glory days, playing in Atlantic City at the Hilton's casino, the mature lady dealer mentioned for some reason, "... but then, I don't gamble, so there you go." To a newbie, a bizarre statement, a card dealer in a casino who doesn't gamble...? But when you consider how miserable life can turn for those who don't respect limits (and how much of that she had then observed), then it can begin to make sense.

For sure, the more "unchecked" the situation is (FOBTs, Vegas and Macau, regulated operators turning a blind eye, rogue operators) the more dangerous it'll get. For the number of people that experience some level of gambling harm (a figure that is hotly disputed by the industry, given an accurate number will inevitably impact their bottom line), the amount of support available is woefully short.

Anyone that has taken a few hours to listen to @ChopleyIOM's Gambling Low Ebbs series will appreciate how serious it can get - and I would respectfully state that was in the days of lower intensity gambling... now-a-days it's on every computer and mobile, advertised everywhere, at higher stakes, and in sectors - such as video games - that people wouldn't necessarily expect. As we saw with the recovering gambling addict who found FIFA and punted off five figures because it scratched the gambling itch he was trying to fight.

Fake platform???

He started streaming there a few months back when he started going down the crypto route - it sounds like YouTube has started giving him trouble of late and if Twitch are starting to do the same then he may not have any options left but the fake platform.

If he's playing with real funds then he'll struggle to compete with all the fake Stake streamers, and if he goes rogue then he'll fit right in and we can chalk him off as another con artist... which would be a sad ending given the great content over the years but everyone has their own path.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

The likes of Rolla, Craig and Jimbo and Bandit etc are getting paid by the casinos not via affiliation but for promoting them in videos so it’s most likely a per video fee or some kind of rolling contract for supplying content. Obviously only they know the terms and conditions of such affairs.

But I’m only saying what they’ve already admitted.

Now you can look at that in 2 different ways in the fact that they are using their own ‘income’ to then gamble or that they are paid to gamble by said casino on their platform.

The only difference between them and the other Cunts doing £100 a spin and buying £10 million bonus buys is that they are not getting an unlimited supply of ‘fake’ cash given to them.

It’s not a surprise they’ve gone down this route, in fact they are probably all enjoying a current up term in earnings due to it.

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

I mean you can’t even get on BC Game without a vpn if ur in the uk so fuck knows how ‘legit’ it is when it comes to getting paid.

I notice on bandits site there are a few people saying they aren’t getting paid due to KYC?

Excuse me for being an idiot but how can you provide ID to a casino that doesn’t actually allow UK players?? What are they gonna say when you provide ur UK driving licence stating you live in fucking Clacton?

Of course the likes of the bandit etc are saying they haven’t had any trouble getting paid?? Well of course not ffs, ur on the payroll!!!

I watch most of these guys don’t get me wrong, except Chip of course as he is and always will be a total cunt, but all this seems a little off to me.

It seems most of the UK content providers are all playing at these places and happily promoting them. Even the likes of the gentleman gambler have gone over to the dark side!! Even Miss Tizzy (what an incredible woman!!) was punting away at BC!!

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

It will be interesting to see what the BC UK site is all about when launched tho.

 

[dunover]

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

 

[jasonuk]

The likes of Rolla, Craig and Jimbo and Bandit etc are getting paid by the casinos not via affiliation but for promoting them in videos so it’s most likely a per video fee or some kind of rolling contract for supplying content. Obviously only they know the terms and conditions of such affairs.

But I’m only saying what they’ve already admitted.

Now you can look at that in 2 different ways in the fact that they are using their own ‘income’ to then gamble or that they are paid to gamble by said casino on their platform.

Affiliation has always been a circle in that sense, so from our perspective it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. As long as there's a clear audit trail in terms of the money we see on stream is real money (or real + bonus with clearly defined and realistic bonus terms).

It’s not a surprise they’ve gone down this route, in fact they are probably all enjoying a current up term in earnings due to it.

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

And I suspect they will at some point... if Curacao is forced to clean up then customers from countries on the blocked list - including UK, France and US - are going to be facing the highest risks.

I notice on bandits site there are a few people saying they aren’t getting paid due to KYC?

Excuse me for being an idiot but how can you provide ID to a casino that doesn’t actually allow UK players?? What are they gonna say when you provide ur UK driving licence stating you live in fucking Clacton?

We're seeing an increase across the board - been a few threads here on CM as well. It'll depend if the KYC is a front or not, whether:

• they are lying to the regulator and accept anything as KYC (including non-documents),
• they are lying to the customer and accept nothing as KYC (the fraudsters),
• the emerging third track, where they are making a genuine effort to do KYC and now have a headache of their own making because they've encouraged players to sign up that they can't pay out - and where the player will get canned and lose their money when it happens.

As we discussed earlier in the thread, while the regulators struggle to go after the Curacao operators, they can and absolutely should go after the affiliates if they still have business activity in the UK. Someone promoting a bogus financial product would get clobbered by the FCA, and the same should happen for gambling and the UKGC/ASA.

 

[jasonuk]

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

There's one news article that talks about crypto - but is somewhere between neutral and negative. I had a look and couldn't see any crypto sites so I think they've confused your site with somebody else.

Of course, the UKGC sites can stick a middle finger up as well, but location wouldn't be the reason for UK-based players.

Additionally, CM members (such as @dunover) who promote their affiliate websites abide by a secondary code of conduct, which can be found at Webmeister Websites: Affiliate Webmaster's Code of Conduct. I would anticipate that promoting non-UKGC sites to UKGC players would fall somewhere between unethical and prey on problem gamblers.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

Jeez calm down!! I’m talking about casinos not paying players!! Using all sorts of bullshit to not pay people. Not just referring to crypto sites in particular.

As in people complaining over at the bandits site they aren’t getting paid is no different to people saying that about the ones they’ve joined via here or ur site. Crypto or not.

As I’ve stated before when you had 100 sites listed a while back, anybody with half a clue wouldn’t touch 75% of them.

I never said you were promoting crypto did I?

And that would be their(uk streamer/content makers) argument in response. Any casino can tell u to do one or make u jump thru hoops to get paid. UKGC licensed or not.

 

[dunover]

Affiliation has always been a circle in that sense, so from our perspective it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. As long as there's a clear audit trail in terms of the money we see on stream is real money (or real + bonus with clearly defined and realistic bonus terms).


And I suspect they will at some point... if Curacao is forced to clean up then customers from countries on the blocked list - including UK, France and US - are going to be facing the highest risks.


We're seeing an increase across the board - been a few threads here on CM as well. It'll depend if the KYC is a front or not, whether:

• they are lying to the regulator and accept anything as KYC (including non-documents),
• they are lying to the customer and accept nothing as KYC (the fraudsters),
• the emerging third track, where they are making a genuine effort to do KYC and now have a headache of their own making because they've encouraged players to sign up that they can't pay out - and where the player will get canned and lose their money when it happens.

As we discussed earlier in the thread, while the regulators struggle to go after the Curacao operators, they can and absolutely should go after the affiliates if they still have business activity in the UK. Someone promoting a bogus financial product would get clobbered by the FCA, and the same should happen for gambling and the UKGC/ASA.

FTR I have been offered 2 streaming deals in the past. The first was to promote a single casino for which I would have had 'free' real money each time and could withdraw any winnings (not much, we're talking a couple of hundred a day Fri/Sat but obviously I would get a reasonable CPA for each £20 baseline NDP.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

The money sloshing about in crapto is mind boggling. No or few banking fees, low offshore tax regimes, no need to license or do KYC (although many do) and above all no borders if they choose. People are getting very rich very quickly as in the late 1990's to 2000's with affiliate sites/casinos after the explosion in online gambling. Only this time it will be harder to clamp down on it bar nations banning the purchase of crypto.

 

[dunover]

Jeez calm down!! I’m talking about casinos not paying players!! Using all sorts of bullshit to not pay people. Not just referring to crypto sites in particular.

As in people complaining over at the bandits site they aren’t getting paid is no different to people saying that about the ones they’ve joined via here or ur site. Crypto or not.

As I’ve stated before when you had 100 sites listed a while back, anybody with half a clue wouldn’t touch 75% of them.

I never said you were promoting crypto did I?

And that would be their(uk streamer/content makers) argument in response. Any casino can tell u to do one or make u jump thru hoops to get paid. UKGC licensed or not.

You should've worded it better. You have two consecutive sentences of which the first makes the statement about not paying 'cos you shouldn't be there:

Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Then sentence two which makes the case that half of the CM sites and mine can do the same:

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

So as CM promotes crypto and I definitely do not, it reads that my sites may not pay too solely for the reason you're from the UK.

The difference is that a UK site can only refuse to pay UK players for limited and specific reasons, with rules from its license and also a proper arbitration service to fall back on. A crapto site can simply not pay a UK player, ermmm, because they don't feel like it. So a bit unfair to my site in two ways.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

FTR I have been offered 2 streaming deals in the past. The first was to promote a single casino for which I would have had 'free' real money each time and could withdraw any winnings (not much, we're talking a couple of hundred a day Fri/Sat but obviously I would get a reasonable CPA for each £20 baseline NDP.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

The money sloshing about in crapto is mind boggling. No or few banking fees, low offshore tax regimes, no need to license or do KYC (although many do) and above all no borders if they choose. People are getting very rich very quickly as in the late 1990's to 2000's with affiliate sites/casinos after the explosion in online gambling. Only this time it will be harder to clamp down on it bar nations banning the purchase of crypto.

I hope you explained to said crypto casino you were earning more than that every month off bonanza anyway!!!

 

[dunover]

I hope you explained to said crypto casino you were earning more than that every month off bonanza anyway!!!

No, I insisted they replaced my exisitng 105% RTP model with a 110% one AND let me keep any profits, instead of the fixed payment. Emphatically, they said no.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

You should've worded it better. You have two consecutive sentences of which the first makes the statement about not paying 'cos you shouldn't be there:

Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Then sentence two which makes the case that half of the CM sites and mine can do the same:

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

So as CM promotes crypto and I definitely do not, it reads that my sites may not pay too solely for the reason you're from the UK.

The difference is that a UK site can only refuse to pay UK players for limited and specific reasons, with rules from its license and also a proper arbitration service to fall back on. A crapto site can simply not pay a UK player, ermmm, because they don't feel like it. So a bit unfair to my site in two ways.

Yes fair enough but I assumed people would get the gist of it!!

People having problems all over the shop with KYC and docs being refused etc etc at loads of places all UKGC licensed. And that’s exactly what the crypto crew will use when ever it’s mentioned to them.

‘Well you can get that anywhere you play these days’ etc etc….

Tbf they’d be right!!!

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Has anybody here tried the Stake UK site yet? I had a peak but you have to be registered to check RTP etc.

 

[jasonuk]

Has anybody here tried the Stake UK site yet? I had a peak but you have to be registered to check RTP etc.

The warning signs are way before that - they offer two providers, one with a very questionable past, the other nobody had heard of. As discussed elsewhere, it's a front to allow them to get their name on football shirts... same as the other casinos (who sponsor EPL teams) using that aggregator with basically no games.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

Appreciate the transparency. As you say it's staggering the amount of money sloshing around - and I guess it makes sense if you frame it as gambling + possible fraud (given there's very clear deception, and UK-based players are likely to encounter problems down the road as we're starting to see) rather than pure gambling.

I guess that's where the previous generation (such as Roobet) made their mistake - they had all the pieces, but the next generation (Stake etc) turbo-charged it by going even bigger on the deception and investing in celebrities - because surely X, Y and Z celebrities wouldn't lie about this stuff (oh sweet summer child ? )

As they've realised, speed is of the essence - with both crypto as a whole and crypto gambling coming under increased scrutiny. When the time comes, many of them will run off into the night and will be a lot of people wondering where the chairs are after the music stops. The operators will be long gone, the providers will shrug their shoulders, and the streamers will be left to face the brunt of the backlash.

Which is a shame because it's an interesting idea in principle, but inevitably where there is money, there will be con artists and fraudsters...