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Svengu vs Bitstarz

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Svengu

Svengu

Dormant Account
PAB Experienced
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
I have a somewhat special situation with Bitstarz, to say the least.

It can seem like this is a standard "I tried to scam the casino using the welcome bonus on duplicate accounts" , but please read through, - you will see that the whole thing does not make any sense.

A couple of days ago I signed up on 2 Direx N.V. casinos , Bitstarz (and Golden Star), where I deposited and played. I checked that they accept players from Denmark, which they do.
I deposited 80 EUR with the welcome bonus, that I lost.

On my second deposit of 100 EUR started to get some winnings, and made an withdrawal of EUR 2000 .I got an email asking for the verification documents, which I provided instantly.
The documents (address, my (danish drivers license) ID, bank etc.) was all approved by Bitstarz.

I later cancelled the withdrawal and ended up winning more, and after withrawing and cancel a couple of time I withdrawed in total EUR 3600, and kept 200 EUR to play more with.

Now this is when the nightmare starts.

The account was closed in the middle of playing, and I got an email from support stating that I play using 2 accounts, and have used the welcome bonus 2 times.

As evidence they send an emailaddress and a fake ID issued in the UK. It clearly states an UK postal address on this picture they sent.

Now, the fact is that I live in Denmark, it's not my email , and I have not registered an account in the UK that I play with.

Even though IF the fact were that I lived in the UK and in some way had an account, I would still not be able to play on BitStarz as stated in their T&C. 3.7

"If you are a player from Spain, Sweden, France, the UK, The Netherlands, Dutch West Indies and Curacao, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins."

I have asked them to send all the details for the supposed active second account, but they refuse to cooperate,
and are threatening me, with that I should withdraw 100 EUR or I will loose them as well.

Chris from Bitstarz:
"For the last time, make the withdrawal of the €100 or your account will be closed down with the funds on it.

Regards
Chris
"

They falsely accuse me of playing on duplicate accounts using the same danish IP address,
which I have asked for proof of, but they refuse to send this.

James from Bitstarz:
"Both accounts share the same the same IP address which is a Danish one, not a British one.
In any case as my colleague already said, this case will not be discussed any further
and please request a withdrawal for the 100 EUR so we can close the account.

James
Support Hero
"


I have also asked for logs when "I" have been logged in on this other account, dates and times.
When was it registered ? The last time it was used, and by whom? They do not want to send anything I ask for, and I am in shock over the whole situation.
This is a behaviour I have never encountered before from a casino.

I refer to their T&C 6.3
"In the event of any dispute, you agree that the records of the server shall act as the final authority in determining the outcome of any claim."

As they don't want to provide records of the duplicate UK account, the dispute is only looked at from their part.

If looking further at the T&C's it says that only one account per IP, household and PC is allowed.
In this situation it doesn't add up , they do not wish to cooperate, and I am left frustrated and sad that people can be like this.

Thankful for any suggestions.
 
Hi guys,

You'll have to forgive me, I'm on holiday, so I'm a bit slow at replying here.

If two players are using the same IP address, it's clearly not a reason to confiscate someone's winning
and close the account down.

When it comes to your case, there are two accounts in your name and there's an ID uploaded on both
of these accounts that are in your name. It's the same name and date of birth and the picture is of
the same person (not the same photo, however).

I'm happy to provide proof of this here but I don't wish to share your picture and name publicly here without
your permission.

When I see the evidence stated above, where we have two accounts and ID of the same person (matching once
more with full name, date of birth and picture) it's very hard for me to interpret it other than it's a person with two
accounts. Credit card picture with full name on it has been uploaded to both accounts as well.

This would be the reason why the winnings were removed and you were left with the original deposit, not that
you're in Denmark or any other reason. I'd appreciate if you guys at CasinoMeister would be able to tell
me how to go forward so we can lay everything out on the table and we can prove that we acted in line
with our terms.

Regards,

Olle
 
Hi Olle.

Thanks for taking time replying. Have you looked at the address on the picture you refer to? (UK) Also, why dont you want to send the requested logs for this other account? When was it created, what IP (James says without hesitating that its using the same Danish IP), when was it logged in?

If someone use my name and photo in the UK, and also magically uses my own IP address, then I am in deeper trouble in general, but lets stick to the original matter.

Please answer - How can an account be registered and played with in the UK, when you do not allow players from the UK (when reading your T&C)

Also, all my KYC documents was approved. (attached)

You must understand, that I am not happy with having to seek help elsewhere for this matter. I dont want to use precious time to prove that I am not a bonus hunter, that you indirect accusing me of. Its just so fishy the whole situation. When you (as in the support) refuse to cooperate, and having the casino support threatening me at the same time - "withdraw your 100 EUR or we close down the account with the funds in it" - Is that classified as being a "good" casino?
 

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Further to the above, please find the picture Olle is refering to attached to this post. I got this from the support.

So, the main question is ; How can 2 accounts be created and played with at the same time, from 2 different countries, using the same IP, as that is what you and James are implying?

And, as a reminder, Bitstarz T&C. 3.7

"If you are a player from Spain, Sweden, France, the UK, The Netherlands, Dutch West Indies and Curacao, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins."

**snipped the personal information**
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello,

Max Drayman here, I handle the complaints side of things at sussexmskpartnershipeast.com. Our service is called Player ArBitration, or PAB for short.

If you are interested -- or you feel it becomes necessary -- we can look into this for you. Our process starts here: Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

Regards,
Max Drayman
Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, sussexmskpartnershipeast.com
 
Hi there,

So, first of all it might be good to establish a few things.

Did you ever live in the UK, and had a UK ID and bank account? If that's the case it would give you an opportunity to check your bank statements from years back and see if you ever made any transactions to BitStarz. As for us not allowing UK players, that's absolutely the case, however your UK account was opened years ago when we didn't enforce the UK IP block that we do now.

As for the login, yes they have logged in from the same city in Denmark (but not exactly the same IP) however last login was also a couple of years back. As this is a city of 12 000 people, and there's logins from this city on both these accounts (UK and Danish Registered one), I also believe that is strong support for you using both accounts (even though the old UK account hasn't been used in years).

Olle
 
BitStarz said:
(even though the old UK account hasn't been used in years).
Olle
Click to expand...
So you are confiscating this player winnings due to an account that has not been used in years... ?
I would not call this "bonus abuse" of any sort - even tho OP really did create that account years ago (but forgot he had one).

The same thing happend to me at Unibet. I created an account. Account got locked by Unibet after a few days asking me about an other account I created 5 years ago. They then closed that old account and I could continue using the new one. No hassle, no confiscation of balance/winnings.
 
Hi Max, many thanks, I have done that already, but not sure it was done i the right way. Please let me know if you need something else.

Bitstarz, as stated before I do not live or have lived in the UK, I live in Denmark, please see my KYC documents.

James from your support stated that "Both accounts share the same the same IP address".

You closed my account and took my winnings with the reason that I use 2 accounts and the welcome bonus 2 times. I actually lost the welcome bonus.

Its not about the money at all, but the fact that I have no idea how this can happen on any serious casino. And also because of the way I was treated and accused, and threatened with the "do this or we do that" attitude.
 
Lobo said:
So you are confiscating this player winnings due to an account that has not been used in years... ?
I would not call this "bonus abuse" of any sort - even tho OP really did create that account years ago (but forgot he had one).

The same thing happend to me at Unibet. I created an account. Account got locked by Unibet after a few days asking me about an other account I created 5 years ago. They then closed that old account and I could continue using the new one. No hassle, no confiscation of balance/winnings.
Click to expand...


Hi there,

I don't think abuse is the correct word, but as the player has claimed the welcome offer on both accounts (and other bonuses) it still remains as a breach of the one account per person rule.

Olle
 
BitStarz said:
Hi there,

I don't think abuse is the correct word, but as the player has claimed the welcome offer on both accounts (and other bonuses) it still remains as a breach of the one account per person rule.

Olle
Click to expand...
If there were days or weeks between the use of the accounts, I could have understood your decision. But not here - with an account that has been dormant for years.
You are just glad OP is back playing and spending his money, right? (but damn, he won).

115000
 


Hi there,

Yes, we've seen your KYC documents, but we have two accounts here, and as we're talking about an older account here, I'm asking if you've lived in the UK in the past, as that could explain you used to have an account you forgot about.

Now, I think it's very strange why someone would use your identity to create fake UK ID's bank cards and proof of address. That the person in question also able to login from the same small city in Denmark that you live in just sounds as a big coincidence if you ask me. We might be wrong of course, but considering all the evidence here, it looks very strange.

Once more, I recommend we'll go through the PAB as that will give this some structure and we can both lay out all the evidence in an organized fashion and I'm very happy to let CasinoMeister be the middle man here to make sure everything is handled fairly.

Olle
 
A good solution for such cases, where there was no intent but more an accident would be to remove half of winning if the bonus was 100% or give him 25% of winning if the bonus was 200%.that way the bonus portion he got by accident is compensated and you would have a happy customer aswell
 

If you have filed a PAB then you are not allowed to post on the subect at all in the forum - if you need Max to confirm stuff then PM him
 
Lobo said:
If there were days or weeks between the use of the accounts, I could have understood your decision.
Click to expand...

Thats what the support said on the night they closed the account, that both accounts share the same IP. That would mean, that the support took the decision because the accounts were used the same day, or week.
 
I have to say - irrespective of the outcome, at least the REP is being pro-active - including recommending a PAB him(her)self.

This is a far better service than i received concerning my recent ROYAL PANDA (aka JOKESITE) complaint.

I am intrigued by one detail - in the UK if an account is closed, funds are returned by the casino, if they are closing the account - surely they will refund the 100 euros automatically? I do not understand why this needs to be actively withdrawn....
 
BitStarz said:
Hi there,

I don't think abuse is the correct word, but as the player has claimed the welcome offer on both accounts (and other bonuses) it still remains as a breach of the one account per person rule.

Olle
Click to expand...

If the account is years old and you guys are punishing him for duplicate accounts. Then you all are being very petty. There are tons of complaints over on BCT forum about this casino voiding wins over minor stuff. Why would anyone want to deposit at such a casino that would void someone's winning over a dormant account that is years old? WOW. I mean come on use some common sense here. The guy wasn't out "TRYING" to take advantage of your welcoming bonus. If he isn't paid, I would strongly suggest players think long and hard before making any deposit there. Because the slightest mistake may cost you your wins. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. Well, coming from this casino I'm not surprised.
 
I don't get this issue. Did you guys miss the part completely where the OP clearly stated that they played the welcome bonus and lost it. Then he deposited his own money and won. Even if he accidentally had an older account, and even if he accidentally used the welcome bonus twice, it should have no bearing on anything when he won with his own money.

Even though having two accounts is probably still against the ToS, confiscating his winnings based just on that is rogue-behavior in my eyes.
 
chiya said:
I don't get this issue. Did you guys miss the part completely where the OP clearly stated that they played the welcome bonus and lost it. Then he deposited his own money and won. Even if he accidentally had an older account, and even if he accidentally used the welcome bonus twice, it should have no bearing on anything when he won with his own money.

Even though having two accounts is probably still against the ToS, confiscating his winnings based just on that is rogue-behavior in my eyes.
Click to expand...

We're going to see more and more examples of where casinos (even accredited ones) are going to refuse to pay out or try and stall withdrawals IMO. This is because they're having their margins squeezed by regulation, and, like any greedy business, they simply will not accept any moderation of their bottom line owing to the leeches at the top who believe enough is never enough. This is at the detriment to everyone else.

We're living in sad times.
 
Hi guys,

Very sorry to be so slow on the ball here but been traveling for the past day.

So, just to address the IP question that was mentioned. There might have been some slight miscommunication about
this. The IP used on both accounts are from the same small town in Denmark and the coordinates for these logins match,
but not the IP.

Here's your Danish account -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Here's your British account -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I'm very hesitant to post anything that gives away the location and the identity of the player out of respect for him. But at the same
time, this is all evidence that support our claim here. If I don't post anything, it's just going to be words against words.

But again, very happy to go through with the PAB so we can do this in a proper and structured matter.

Olle

Edit: This will be the last post about this as per what I believe to be the rules of the PAB.
 
sufferinsilence said:
I don't really find that proof. When you look up my IP it would state I'm in Mechelen, Gent, Antwerp, Brussels,... anywhere in Flanders basically except where I really am. Like right now it says I'm in Heusden-Zolder which is in my province but not where I live.
Click to expand...

Hi there,

Just to point out as well, this is not the only thing that links these two accounts. Remember we have full KYC on both accounts with the same person on the picture of the ID, DOB and full name. Hence, we're not just relying on IP being the same (in this case it's coordinates actually), but the fact that we have full set of docs on both accounts.

This simply just adds to it.

Olle
 
Thats quite detailed information. I assume he use a phone with position on. If a pc sends out that kind of info to any page i visit, how do i turn it off?
 
Nordog said:
Thats quite detailed information. I assume he use a phone with position on. If a pc sends out that kind of info to any page i visit, how do i turn it off?
Click to expand...

Maybe linux is good with those things. @ternur might know
If you are using win10 "they" probably know more about you than you do yourself.
=)
 
Thread title changed to better reflect the case at hand.
 
Also, I've asked the rep to refrain from further posts here until we have this PAB under control. I mention this so that it's clear that any silence that may follow is because I asked for it not because the rep is being negligent.
 

Man them two accounts are years apart. As I said, You all are being petty. I honestly hope CM doesn't make you accredited with this type of behavior. This casino is just problems waiting to happen here.
 
samdog21 said:
... any casino from direx will find anyway not pay. .... Scammers.
Click to expand...

I've spent the last several months settling a number of cases with the Direx NV guys and I can say without hesitation that you are quite mistaken.

No doubt they have had a shady past in terms of player complaints being woefully mishandled but they've worked hard to make amends and these days their team are some of the most cooperative and responsive people I deal with.

And yes they pay, my cases in the last 90-120 days with them probably ring up at about 1/4 million paid to players, give or take.
 
Last edited:
FTR I've seen the casino's evidence on this case and while we are not finished discussing that I am also not happy to let the current thread title stand as is.

Original title was: "Bitstarz.com - confiscated winnings, duplicate accounts"
 
If im to judge by their representant replying to complaints, id say its one of the groups that atleast try their best to both explain and solve problems activly on the forum. Even if i dont always agree with hombert, atleast he tells it as it is and dont avoid uncomfortable questions. Thats something i personally respect and it gains my trust.
 
Hi, just an update to this.

There was an unfortunate misunderstanding and the casino is not to blame. It was an extended family member that does indeed have family in the UK (on his fathers side) , that have misused details of mine. I take full responsibility of this young mans actions and hope bitstarz can accept mine and his apologies.
 
Hi Sven,

No need to apologize as you're a victim here as well. But I very much appreciate you reaching out and that we got an answer to the question.

In all of this as well, I fully understand your frustration too, and hope that you won't have to deal with this again.

Once more, I appreciate you coming here to set everything straight.

Olle
 
Hi @samdog21,

Just to point something out as well.

Not all Direx N.V are own by the same people. We (including others on Direx N.V) are independent whitelabels, and although some have multiple brands, BitStarz only has one, and is separate from other casinos using the Softswiss platform. We do not have the same owners, staff or management. So in other words, I'd like to kindly ask to be only judged on the basis of what BitStarz does, as that's what I can take responsibility for (and will).

But to lump us together with other casinos using the same label who is totally separate and has nothing to do with the way we run things, I'd appreciate if we could refrain from that.

So, if you have anything you wish to bring up, or if there is something you're not happy with or think we can do better. I'm very happy to discuss any of that with you, anytime :)

Olle
 
Hope the case was solved. If he was a victim of " identity theft", he should get his winnings if its proven within reasonable doubt. So im kinda curious on how such a case is dealt with in general.
 
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