What casinos have the best payouts UK?

[bamberfishcake]

I keep a list of the RTP of the UK casinos that i play at and will be sharing this each month.

Remember, the lower the % the lower the game is fixed to give back or pay!

The stats are checked within a week of publishing and this is by no means a comprehensive list so it must be said -

'Check the RTP before playing, anywhere!'.

The 3 on my list to watch if you wish to avoid the lower paying versions are Videoslots, Trada and Grosvenor. I hear Coral also have lower RTP on some providers.

This month has seen Cashmio and Dunder also lower RTP although I have found only one game on each site, amongst what i have checked.

I will put this in a friendlier format when i have a minute and invite you all to contribute as it will help us out.

Knowledge is power, know what your playing!

 

[pinnit2014]

Offt...5% in it for Mystery Reels MW?

Wonder how long the 98% will hold for

Plus side - I'm sure the Trada accountants are looking forward to a prosperous 2020.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Offt...5% in it for Mystery Reels MW?

Wonder how long the 98% will hold for

Plus side - I'm sure the Trada accountants are looking forward to a prosperous 2020.

5% in it for Book Of Dead might excite the accounts team also. I wonder what that equates to in real money.

 

[dpp00]

excellent guide thanks for putting in the work

 

[bamberfishcake]

Deleted Post due to a misinformed me.

 

[pinnit2014]

5% in it for Book Of Dead might excite the accounts team also. I wonder what that equates to in real money.

This?

 

[slot_zombie]

All British, Hyper, Yeti etc who did not make the list because, as far as i am aware, they run all games at max RTP.

Au contraire, they are running IGT and Novomatic at below optimum settings. IGT are mostly at a poor 94% or thereabouts.

 

[colinsunderland]

Au contraire, they are running IGT and Novomatic at below optimum settings. IGT are mostly at a poor 94% or thereabouts.

When did novomatic introduce different RTP levels?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Au contraire, they are running IGT and Novomatic at below optimum settings. IGT are mostly at a poor 94% or thereabouts.

Really? Thats a shame. I'll add them to the list and check. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Downsman]

Thanks for the info..very helpful.

 

[colinsunderland]

@L&L-Jan are you using lower RTP settings?

 

[LV BET]

Hi @bamberfishcake, I can let you know the RTP of the games we do offer on our website (they're also listed in the information box on each of the games marked with the i on the bottom right when hovering over the slot).

For the games that we do offer -

Book of Dead - 96.21%
The Sword & The Grail - 96.53%
Rise Of Olympus - 96.50%
Gemix - 96.83%
Reactoonz - 96.51%
Wolf Gold - 96.20%
John Hunter & Scarab Queen - 96.5% (This one isn't visible in the information screen for some reason so I've asked our content team to update it + our casino team to confirm the RTP).
Vampires Vs Wolves - 96.20%
Madame Destiny - 96.20%
Dog House - 96.20%

Let me know if you need any more info and I can see what our Casino Team can provide!

 

[L&L-Jan]

@L&L-Jan are you using lower RTP settings?

IGT offers and I always go for the middle, 92 - 94 or 96 - we do them on 94. Book of Ra classic is on 92.82 or something like that? That's it the rest is all providers standards.

I believe for an online casino with tax obligations a RTP between 94 and 96 is fair. Some games towards 97% - depending on the volatily - I might not release.

e.g. the new secret of the stones - max was boderline for me, but the game is popular and the regular version goes EOL, so had to. RTP is 96.81% for the Max version.

Speaking of games, I'll shall update our releases for February in a seperate topic.

 

[Degen]

This is a nice honest reply From l&l.
The sites with lower RTP are certainly not to be Avoided. TheYou might get a Lower RTP for some games but in the case for videoslots for example, that's worth it for the knowing you will be paid no problems and fast.
They need a profit margin to be a fair business.

Win big on one of the lesser known "max rtp" casinos and you may be in trouble.

 

[mack341]

Win big on one of the lesser known "max rtp" casinos and you may be in trouble.

Do you really believe this with the ukgc regulated casinos, that a less known casino may not pay out, or perhaps drag their heels and slow pay?

--------------

Ladbrokes and coral can certainly afford to offer 96% PnG instead of 94%, it's just pure greed for more profit that they don't, players should vote with their feet.

There's no rule that when the taxes were originally decided they were set at the perfect level, they may have been too low when all things are considered.

I hope players aren't left in a situation where only dodgy casinos with poor customer service are offering the higher rtp versions.

 

[ternur]

This is a nice honest reply From l&l.
The sites with lower RTP are certainly not to be Avoided. TheYou might get a Lower RTP for some games but in the case for videoslots for example, that's worth it for the knowing you will be paid no problems and fast.
They need a profit margin to be a fair business.

Win big on one of the lesser known "max rtp" casinos and you may be in trouble.

I disagree. Getting paid is not something that should be a factor in what makes a great casino. It should be given. Failing in this category is either bad business (if getting paid is not smooth) or criminal (if payments are denied without a legal reason).

Return to player is critical and any casino that chooses the lower ones are not great casinos imo. Sure, they might have some things going for them, but I personally avoid playing games with poorer rtp. If for no other reason than for the fact it's taking a piss at players.

 

[goatwack]

Read that initially as getting paid is not smooth criminal

*never skim posts*

 

[colinsunderland]

This is a nice honest reply From l&l.
The sites with lower RTP are certainly not to be Avoided. TheYou might get a Lower RTP for some games but in the case for videoslots for example, that's worth it for the knowing you will be paid no problems and fast.
They need a profit margin to be a fair business.

Win big on one of the lesser known "max rtp" casinos and you may be in trouble.

I can get paid faster from Coral than Videoslots if I pop to a shop, and SkyVegas (who's games are all the highest rtp). Casumo pay in 24 hours or less, all games run at the highest RTP, LeoVegas the same. LV Bet always paid within a couple of hours, all at high RTP. Which ones of those do you think would have problems withdrawing from?

 

[Reelsoffun]

I disagree. Getting paid is not something that should be a factor in what makes a great casino. It should be given. Failing in this category is either bad business (if getting paid is not smooth) or criminal (if payments are denied without a legal reason).

Return to player is critical and any casino that chooses the lower ones are not great casinos imo. Sure, they might have some things going for them, but I personally avoid playing games with poorer rtp. If for no other reason than for the fact it's taking a piss at players.

I disagree partly, LOL

Yes RTP matters if your playing hundreds of thousands or millions of games on the slots in question but do you really think its going to make a difference on a game that has billions or trillions of game rounds to choose from?

I really dont think its worth getting too bee in your bonnet about as I said last year when VS was reported to lower some RTPs I and others close to the industry said that others will follow suit and they have. By the end of this year its almost a certainty that others will also have lower some that haven't previously.

I also predict the ones that are higher at the moment will also start to lower over the next year to 18 months, feel free to correct me mid 2021 if I was wrong.

Slots are for entertainment, not a way of making money, look at it a different way playing slots on say 94.5% as opposed to 96% is going to cost you 1.5% more now just like train tickets increased 2.7% and everything else that goes up year on year.

Most things cost more year on year whether it be a service or goods, why should slot playing entertainment be any different really????

If it really means that much to you, go play at the ones that have the higher RTP ( while you can ) and stop moaning about the ones that are lower no one is forcing you to play them.

 

[L&L-Jan]

Do you really believe this with the ukgc regulated casinos, that a less known casino may not pay out, or perhaps drag their heels and slow pay?

--------------

Ladbrokes and coral can certainly afford to offer 96% PnG instead of 94%, it's just pure greed for more profit that they don't, players should vote with their feet.

I have to correct you here though, wouldn't say its greed. It's a business decision after operating in 2015/2016 with a gross margin of lets say 40% and moving forward to 2019 the gross margin was all of a sudden 10%. Shareholders start moaning, board needs to make a decision, you lower spend (which is not always possible) or generate more revenues by mix of measures, including adjusting the RTPs.

That's my 2 cents

 

[mack341]

Slots are for entertainment, not a way of making money, look at it a different way playing slots on say 94.5% as opposed to 96% is going to cost you 1.5% more now just like train tickets increased 2.7% and everything else that goes up year on year.

Most things cost more year on year whether it be a service or goods, why should slot playing entertainment be any different really????

You'd be happy to see the rtp lowered each and every year then ...return to player says it all, the more that is returned to you, the more entertaining it is surely?,

Yes there is a lot of crud netent/re tiger variance games at 96% but on the whole, higher rtp gives the slot designer more to play with, to create the entertainment

 

[goatwack]

For those times when 5% house edge just isn't enough

 

[Reelsoffun]

You'd be happy to see the rtp lowered each and every year then ...return to player says it all, the more that is returned to you, the more entertaining it is surely?,

Yes there is a lot of crud netent/re tiger variance games at 96% but on the whole, higher rtp gives the slot designer more to play with, to create the entertainment

No of course I wouldn't be happy if they dropped each year, I would stop playing if it got to below 94% TBH but there is two ways to force more revenue and were starting to see more of both.

1. Lower RTPs
2. Higher min stakes

There is more and more games coming out that have 40p,50p, 60p min stakes etc which is also disappointing, but again can be walked away from, even though I often play way about those stakes I hate games that force a higher min stake.

I have lost count of the amount of games I have opened lately and closed without even playing a spin due to the min stake.

 

[Reelsoffun]

For those times when 5% house edge just isn't enough

I would be still ok with 94% online purely due to my local B&M casinos are generally 88-92%

But the fact I have had many nice hits and profitable sessions even at those lower RTPs don't over concern me playing at 94% etc and anything above is a bonus.

 

[ternur]

I disagree partly, LOL

Yes RTP matters if your playing hundreds of thousands or millions of games on the slots in question but do you really think its going to make a difference on a game that has billions or trillions of game rounds to choose from?

I really dont think its worth getting too bee in your bonnet about as I said last year when VS was reported to lower some RTPs I and others close to the industry said that others will follow suit and they have. By the end of this year its almost a certainty that others will also have lower some that haven't previously.

I also predict the ones that are higher at the moment will also start to lower over the next year to 18 months, feel free to correct me mid 2021 if I was wrong.

Slots are for entertainment, not a way of making money, look at it a different way playing slots on say 94.5% as opposed to 96% is going to cost you 1.5% more now just like train tickets increased 2.7% and everything else that goes up year on year.

Most things cost more year on year whether it be a service or goods, why should slot playing entertainment be any different really????

If it really means that much to you, go play at the ones that have the higher RTP ( while you can ) and stop moaning about the ones that are lower no one is forcing you to play them.

I wasn't moaning.

And I thought I said I try to avoid games with inferior rtp. And why shouldn't I? I mean this all about playtime in the end. And if I have two slots side by side and the other has a better rtp, why in earth I would choose the inferior one? Because the wallpaper looks nicer behind it?

Like I said, everyone chooses what they look in a casino. Some are indifferent to lower rtps. I'm not. Still not moaning rather than stating my opinion on the subject matter.

 

[Reelsoffun]

deleted

 

[Reelsoffun]

I wasn't moaning.

And I thought I said I try to avoid games with inferior rtp. And why shouldn't I? I mean this all about playtime in the end. And if I have two slots side by side and the other has a better rtp, why in earth I would choose the inferior one? Because the wallpaper looks nicer behind it?

Well the one thing you haven't mentioned or factored in is that yes you could have two slots side by side, one on 94% and one on 96% but the problem is you can't guarantee which is better its not all about RTP but could be the profile as I know from experience lower RTPs can actually give a better game.

For example the rare larger wins on 94% could account for just 1% on the 94% game, making the other wins 93%

yet on the 96% version they could account for 5% making the base game 91% actually making the better game the 94% version if you don't hit any wins that make up the rare larger win contribution, which is of course most sessions you won't. Of course if your lucky enough to hit one of the rarer top wins, the player isn't caring which RTP version they playing LOL

Hope that explains it in a better way.

 

[ternur]

Well the one thing you haven't mentioned or factored in is that yes you could have two slots side by side, one on 94% and one on 96% but the problem is you can't guarantee which is better its not all about RTP but could be the profile as I know from experience lower RTPs can actually give a better game.

I agree with you there. I can't guarantee anything and it's not all about the rtp. What I can do, is to do what makes with happy and avoid all other things.

Yes, I might be a closet hippy in the 21st century And before goatwack asks, no not drinking atm.

 

[pinnit2014]

I agree with you there. I can't guarantee anything and it's not all about the rtp. What I can do, is to do what makes with happy and avoid all other things.

Yes, I might be a closet hippy in the 21st century And before goatwack asks, no not drinking atm.

What about now?

 

[goatwack]

'Atm' in Ternur's case, actually meant 'Alcohol too much'

 

[mack341]

I have to correct you here though, wouldn't say its greed. It's a business decision after operating in 2015/2016 with a gross margin of lets say 40% and moving forward to 2019 the gross margin was all of a sudden 10%. Shareholders start moaning, board needs to make a decision, you lower spend (which is not always possible) or generate more revenues by mix of measures, including adjusting the RTPs.

That's my 2 cents

I respect your knowledge of the business and of the financial analysis, I tried to train to be an accountant once but soon felt flummoxed by the double entry system

I did hear about the uk tax changes in online gambling but didn't really understand them, having just read an article on another site [which is also an affliliate site so I won't mention it] it seems the 15% tax previously was based on 'point of supply', so some big firms moved their online operation offshore and paid none of this tax.

And then in 2014 the tax rule was amended to a 'point of consumption' basis so offshore businesses now needed to pay the tax based on profit earned from uk customers.

In 2018 the chancellor announced this tax for remote gambling would now increase from 15% to 21%.

[I seem to remember there was also something about casino bonuses being no longer claimable against their tax bill.]

So really for years the online slots part of will hill, ladbrokes etc.. weren't paying any tax or hardly anything

Knowing more about it I feel a 21% tax on profits from uk customers isn't unreasonable given the costs to society and the economy on the whole, I think large companies have had an inflated idea of how much they should be making profit wise, the ladbrokes ceo was paid about £18 million the other year, so they must be doing alright even with these new taxes and changes to the fobt's?

If the online stake is limited to £2, what measures will the online business take then I wonder, will all games have to shift to 92- 94%

Edit: just thinking on it more, I wouldn't have opposed a smaller tax hike, say to 18% instead of 21%. A large tax rate could squeeze the small firms out, and then the big boys pick up even more volume of the business, whereas more competition is good for the consumer.

 

[dealer wins]

I asked in another thread where I can find OJOs slot RTPs, anyone know please? They used to list them on their site but or the life of me I cant find them anymore. Thanks

 

[L&L-Jan]

I asked in another thread where I can find OJOs slot RTPs, anyone know please? They used to list them on their site but or the life of me I cant find them anymore. Thanks

It's within the game, casinos dont publish a list with RTPs per game. Open game, open help file or pay out table and there it is.

 

[slot_zombie]

No mention of reducing the very high ongoing revenue shares that affiliates pocket from casino takings I see. All on the paying player, via lowered RTP and little/no bonuses.

Problem with online is that many games NEED to be on 96%+ to offset some of the "theoretical potential" that we all pay for day in, day out, but most will never see (cough).

I can get a cemented 94% in my local casino, but I don't have to "self- staff" - it's their heating, electricity, and they also feed me and see to it that I'm well refreshed. Jackpots are capped so the gameplay is still reasonable. I'm starting to think this might be the superior proposition...

 

[colinsunderland]

No mention of reducing the very high ongoing revenue shares that affiliates pocket from casino takings I see. All on the paying player, via lowered RTP and little/no bonuses.

Plenty of scummy affiliate programs have done that already, Kindred (32Red, Unibet), Coral, Betfair to name a few well known ones.
Out of interest, why do you think a casino should break a contract it has with a business partner?

Videoslots (as an example) pay around 3% to most affiliates, how low do you think it should go?

 

[Roedgaard72]

It's within the game, casinos dont publish a list with RTPs per game. Open game, open help file or pay out table and there it is.

Sorry Jan Wrong quote

 

[Roedgaard72]

I asked in another thread where I can find OJOs slot RTPs, anyone know please? They used to list them on their site but or the life of me I cant find them anymore. Thanks

If you are talking about Play OJO (Skill on net casino) they are running the lower versions on PlaynGo slots (94%)

 

[bamberfishcake]

Updated the list to include LV Bet and All British and some IGT games (excuse the choice as i am unfamiliar with them)

Hopefully you can all zoom a little until i sort something better when i get a chance.

The sites with lower RTP are certainly not to be Avoided.

Totally agree. Videoslots are still my number 1. This is about informed choice.

Getting paid is not something that should be a factor in what makes a great casino. It should be given.

And could not agree more. Smooth operation is not hard to achieve. Of course there is a cost involved but thats the service you pay for. Mistakes happen and systems fail but its the product fed back to the customer and the service behind it that keep them from straying. Below par product and service will lead to lack of loyalty.

I have to correct you here though, wouldn't say its greed. It's a business decision after operating in 2015/2016 with a gross margin of lets say 40% and moving forward to 2019 the gross margin was all of a sudden 10%. Shareholders start moaning, board needs to make a decision, you lower spend (which is not always possible) or generate more revenues by mix of measures, including adjusting the RTPs.

Tell the shareholders to be happy with what they have got. Eventually you will have to one day, wont you? How about the long term gains from a loyal client base or are they just in it for the quick buck?

Just disagree with your disagreement that its not greed. We will agree to differ my friend. The only real justification for a lower RTP setting might be a new casino who would prefer less risk when starting. That i can understand.

Its the new school of business thinking and there is evidence its proving to fail over the long term. Some services cannot be driven by targets/MI or KPI's. Something has to give if you just keep squeezing and its usually the quality of product or service which then leads to losing the customer.

How about building an L&L empire based on the best product and the best service? You might be surprised by the client base and the shareholders might prefer a longer more reliable growth but that of course depends upon your shareholders.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Hi @bamberfishcake, I can let you know the RTP of the games we do offer on our website (they're also listed in the information box on each of the games marked with the i on the bottom right when hovering over the slot).

For the games that we do offer -

Book of Dead - 96.21%
The Sword & The Grail - 96.53%
Rise Of Olympus - 96.50%
Gemix - 96.83%
Reactoonz - 96.51%
Wolf Gold - 96.20%
John Hunter & Scarab Queen - 96.5% (This one isn't visible in the information screen for some reason so I've asked our content team to update it + our casino team to confirm the RTP).
Vampires Vs Wolves - 96.20%
Madame Destiny - 96.20%
Dog House - 96.20%

Let me know if you need any more info and I can see what our Casino Team can provide!

Didnt expect this, thanks!

I won some CM Community Money from The Remarkable CM Community thread with an epic tale of fire and ice so i will deposit at LV Bet in return. (my intention is of course to double it and withdrawal though, purely for entertainment)

 

[Matti]

Plenty of scummy affiliate programs have done that already, Kindred (32Red, Unibet), Coral, Betfair to name a few well known ones.
Out of interest, why do you think a casino should break a contract it has with a business partner?

Videoslots (as an example) pay around 3% to most affiliates, how low do you think it should go?

Can't see him suggesting breaking contracts.

VS don't pay 3% to most affiliates. You're taking a skewed number from an AGD thread as a fact.

 

[dealer wins]

It's within the game, casinos dont publish a list with RTPs per game. Open game, open help file or pay out table and there it is.

Ive opened Immortal Romance. Checked the paytable whilst open, checked the game info. Nothing showing the RTP for me.

 

[slot_zombie]

Can't see him suggesting breaking contracts.

VS don't pay 3% to most affiliates. You're taking a skewed number from an AGD thread as a fact.

A contract is a contract. Indeed.

I can see a gap in the market for "No Affiliate Casino" offering max RTP and regular bonuses. A little advertising to start, maybe a one off small bonus for players to refer a friend and word of mouth would do the rest.

 

[mack341]

Greed is an emotive word, I think I used the term pure greed which sounds even worse, basically they [coral gala group was my example] are unhappy with their profit level and so decide to cut the payout to players. Could they live with a 3.8% margin instead of the 5.8 one, especially if it meant more entertained players and return custom?

The other aspect is the rtp info is almost hidden, would the casinos be so keen to cut rtp if customers could easily see it prominently displayed in the game loading sequence [and so changes also couldn't be slipped in unnoticed] and this would make comparison with competitors easier.

IIRC in the ukgc regulations, the companies had an option either to display the odds of a game or the rtp, so that was already a generous concession to the industry (which they most likely lobbied for) then the rtp info is placed at the end of the help file, it's not customer friendly but more towards the shady tactics way of thinking.

 

[goatwack]

Yes, if forced to prominently display RTPs next to every game by the UKGC, you can bet your bottom dollar casinos would be more 'inclined' to put out higher-RTP versions of their slots, because, well, the competition.

So as it is at present yes it's shady by companies and casinos to keep them as far away from players, especially new players, buried deep in the game's Help file. No one is going to retrieve those and manually compare between casinos, and they know that.

Nor is the RTP-reduction out of bleeding heart survival mode, it's to keep profits up whilst bearing the brunt of increased overheads elsewhere. Business-savvy? For their shareholders perhaps. To players it's absolute wank

 

[Matti]

Yes, if forced to prominently display RTPs next to every game by the UKGC, you can bet your bottom dollar casinos would be more 'inclined' to put out higher-RTP versions of their slots, because, well, the competition.

So as it is at present yes it's shady by companies and casinos to keep them as far away from players, especially new players, buried deep in the game's Help file. No one is going to retrieve those and manually compare between casinos, and they know that.

Nor is the RTP-reduction out of bleeding heart survival mode, it's to keep profits up whilst bearing the brunt of increased overheads elsewhere. Business-savvy? For their shareholders perhaps. To players it's absolute wank

I totally agree that if the RTP was legally needed to be displayed next to every game we would see higher RTP's in general. Casinos would have to find the money they need to run their business somewhere else.

 

[goatwack]

I totally agree that if the RTP was legally needed to be displayed next to every game we would see higher RTP's in general. Casinos would have to find the money they need to run their business somewhere else.

What is this witchcraft? You're supposed to disagree! Remember: Brexit thread

 

[Matti]

Haha. That thread is politics my friend. Not to be taken to seriously

 

[colinsunderland]

Can't see him suggesting breaking contracts.

VS don't pay 3% to most affiliates. You're taking a skewed number from an AGD thread as a fact.

How would you reduce affiliate payments without breaking the deal that allows those payments?

VS do pay 3%, the skewed percentage is perfectly correct.

Which department do you work in at Videoslots again? I know its not the affiliate department, so maybe you could get your colleagues to give a breakdown of the true number if its so wrong.

 

[Matti]

How would you reduce affiliate payments without breaking the deal that allows those payments?

VS do pay 3%, the skewed percentage is perfectly correct.

Which department do you work in at Videoslots again? I know its not the affiliate department, so maybe you could get your colleagues to give a breakdown of the true number if its so wrong.

You can reduce payments in new deals. Still no mentioning of breaking contracts.

The example you referred to was sure 100% correct for a revshare affiliate so no need to ask my friends at the affiliate department. In this particular case it was a new player depositing €10 and taking a 100% bonus. NO casino would want to pay anything for a player like that but still you use that as an example.

What if the affiliate in you're example above was on a hybrid with VS? Then he would actually have a commission well above 100% of what the casino earned(4.4 Hybrid in the VS standard affiliate agreement). What would you have said then?

Feel like I'm part of derealing an excellent thread created by bamberfishcake for another purpose, so maybe a moderator can move this posts to another thread? @dionysus , @dunover

 

[dionysus]

maybe a moderator can move this posts to another thread? @dionysus , @dunover

no stress; threads go off into tangents; as long as they arent fully hijjacked or agenda driven, they tend to right themselves just post in a topic-related/apppropriate thread to carry over your thoughts