Feature Guarantees - RTG -- How long do you spin?

[Diane]

CM Members,

Asking for opinions and experiences:

The newer games that have Feature Guarantees like "Its a Mystery", "Mice Dice" etc. how long do you spin before you try to win the feature?

Sometimes I win the feature on the first spin, sometimes I never win until I hit the feature guarantee. I am always tempted to try to win the feature earlier by taking a chance.

What do you guys do? Wait it out to end or try it when it gets to 70-80% guaranteed?

TIA,

Diane

 

[Cleveland]

I've mostly taken my chances at 60+ %. Only lost 1 that I can remember but then again I rarely play this type of slot. Something about it just doesn't feel right.

 

[chuchu59]

I am not a fan of Mice Dice and never played it inreal mode. The fact that they deduct an amount for the feature guarantee doesnt sit in well with me especially since you have to start from scratch if you get the feature before 150 spins. You are paying for the feature separately so I dont really think its fair.

 

[jod5413]

I have played some of these slots but if they are not hitting, I do the feature guarantee, even if it is only 20 or 30 %. I don't usually win, but it also sticks in my mind that it is a really lame deal, and I simply do not play these games any more. It kind of makes it feel "not random", if that makes sense.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

I am not a fan of Mice Dice and never played it inreal mode. The fact that they deduct an amount for the feature guarantee doesnt sit in well with me especially since you have to start from scratch if you get the feature before 150 spins. You are paying for the feature separately so I dont really think its fair.

it actually 100 spins but i agree it still sucks.

 

[Glunn11]

The reports of people saying that when you disconnect, you lose accumulated progress toward the guarantee, turn me off of these.

 

[fanihi]

only on fun mode

The reports of people saying that when you disconnect, you lose accumulated progress toward the guarantee, turn me off of these.

I play mice dice and it's a mystery quite often. As far as I've noticed, If I get disconnected for any reason, when I re-connect the spins counter are at where it was
when I got disconnected(on real money mode). but yes (on fun money) all spins are not saved.

 

[daveboz]

CM Members,

Asking for opinions and experiences:

The newer games that have Feature Guarantees like "Its a Mystery", "Mice Dice" etc. how long do you spin before you try to win the feature?

Sometimes I win the feature on the first spin, sometimes I never win until I hit the feature guarantee. I am always tempted to try to win the feature earlier by taking a chance.



What do you guys do? Wait it out to end or try it when it gets to 70-80% guaranteed?

TIA,

Diane

Two or three times I've tried to pull that with 85-88% complete and lost! Sometimes I'll spin up to near max, stop, the spins are saved in system,move up to next bet level, thinking its due. Works sometimes. Got the shaft going back to original bet after triggering on a higher bet.

i have hit on the first spin on both mentioned as well as other non-guaranteed machines. Its a mystery used to hit well below the 150 max. I was chewing it up with Mice Dice for awhile but it is dead now.

If I recall I was betting like 5 bucks a spin and hit 4 mice right to left and got a big Zero! Pays left to right l

 

[daveboz]

I play mice dice and it's a mystery quite often. As far as I've noticed, If I get disconnected for any reason, when I re-connect the spins counter are at where it was
when I got disconnected(on real money mode). but yes (on fun money) all spins are not saved.

The spins are saved, you can play as many $ denominations as you want. Sometimes you have to back out to the lobby and go back in to refresh or spin at the denomination you revisit to bring the counter back.

 

[daveboz]

I've mostly taken my chances at 60+ %. Only lost 1 that I can remember but then again I rarely play this type of slot. Something about it just doesn't feel right.

Wow Cleveland? You sense it now too huh? There's nothing random with RTG software in my opinion.

 

[chuchu59]

Wow Cleveland? You sense it now too huh? There's nothing random with RTG software in my opinion.

Dave, sort of putting words in Cleve's mouth.

 

[DogBoy001]

I rarely comment nowadays, but I'll clear up a few items here

If I recall I was betting like 5 bucks a spin and hit 4 mice right to left and got a big Zero! Pays left to right l

0 wins can happen.
However, as I'm sure you would have seen in this event, your 0 win in this game would have awarded $250 (50 times your $5 bet), since the game has the Win-Win feature.

I am not a fan of Mice Dice and never played it inreal mode. The fact that they deduct an amount for the feature guarantee doesnt sit in well with me especially since you have to start from scratch if you get the feature before 150 spins. You are paying for the feature separately so I dont really think its fair.

You're not paying for the feature, you're paying for the guarantee that you will receive it after 100 spins, if it has not been triggered randomly.
Mice Dice is a powerful feature that often yields large prize multipliers.
Without an extra bet, and without feature guarantee, you'd be looking at an average feature hit rate somewhere around 1 in 300.

Wow Cleveland? You sense it now too huh? There's nothing random with RTG software in my opinion.

Funnily enough, the gripes above show that the game is, in fact, mathematically sound and entirely random.
If it weren't, then I pose several questions:
1) Why would there have to be an extra bet?
ie: If it was a non-mathematical structure, why not just put the game live and take no extra bet?
2) Why would the game ever yield a 0 feature win?
ie: If it was a non-random system, why would you ever yield such a poor feature result, one that would be sure to annoy the player?

Feature Guarantee will be live in the Australian domestic market (B&M market) 1st quarter 2012, and is highly likely to make it to the U.S. market in late 2012.

Random results do not preclude a system that guarantees a feature event, and is either incorporated into the standard RTP structure of the game, or paid for out of a distinct bet.

Woooof

 

[mattsgame]

Feature Guarantee will be live in the Australian domestic market (B&M market) 1st quarter 2012, and is highly likely to make it to the U.S. market in late 2012.



Woooof

Bit off topic:
But I will be one who will be keeping my eyes out for these. Love the games you guys develop for the B&M market.

 

[Nifty29]

Thanks dogboy

It's nice to hear how the games REALLY works. Makes a change from the ramblings of some players looking for something to blame other than themselves for their losses.

Don't be afraid to drop in some more, the intelligent members appreciate your input

 

[Webzcas]

Don't be afraid to drop in some more, the intelligent members appreciate your input

Please don't make comments which come across as trying to belittle the membership. Sorry if I have read this wrong, but your comment which I have quoted above looks like it was made with the sole intention to cause bad feeling.

It's Sunday. None of us want to come back tomorrow and be greeted by another verbal war.

As a result Nifty, I have banned you from having any further participation in this thread. Bryan, Max or Simmo! can reverse this, if they feel it is not warranted. I am just pre-empting any potential meltdowns.

 

[4 of a kind]

Please don't make comments which come across as trying to belittle the membership. Sorry if I have read this wrong, but your comment which I have quoted above looks like it was made with the sole intention to cause bad feeling.

It's Sunday. None of us want to come back tomorrow and be greeted by another verbal war.

As a result Nifty, I have banned you from having any further participation in this thread. Bryan, Max or Simmo! can reverse this, if they feel it is not warranted. I am just pre-empting any potential meltdowns.

It's nice to know that the moderators are paying more attention to Niffty's backdoor sarcastic, belittling, posts.

 

[bpb]

Wow Cleveland? You sense it now too huh? There's nothing random with RTG software in my opinion.

I think this link will help explain why you feel the way you do.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Gremmyboy]

I think this link will help explain why you feel the way you do.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wow! How did you do that??



**On another note.. Just wanted to say hi to Dogboy... Glad you are posting again. I've always enjoyed reading your posts and learning the ins and outs of RTG software. Informative and fair!
Just wish you'd post more... Don't think some people realise that you are not obliged to post anything at all and take the information you provide for granted!
Keep up the good work!
Post More Please!!

Cheers
Gremmy

 

[Cleveland]

Wow Cleveland? You sense it now too huh? There's nothing random with RTG software in my opinion.

I'm not saying it isn't random. I meant, it just feels weird. Not sure how to explain it. Something about knowing when you will be guaranteed a feature is...well I dunno, weird.

 

[DogBoy001]

I'm not saying it isn't random. I meant, it just feels weird. Not sure how to explain it. Something about knowing when you will be guaranteed a feature is...well I dunno, weird.

I think the important thing to remember is that the extra bet Feature Guarantee does not detract from the normal game, the feature can be triggered during regular play.

What the FG does do is to simply ensure that you won't go prolonged periods without triggering a feature.
Features often consume, (for instance) 30-35% of the RTP on a 95% RTP game, so if you go 300, 400, even 1686 spins (my personal worst) without triggering a feature, your effective RTP over that period is going to be pretty poor.
While some top prizes are very rare, they do not consume the % that features such as free games do (which may regular randomly hit every 110-130 spins, for instance).

By ensuring the feature will trigger, FG (whether paid for from an extra bet or included in the standard game structure) flattens extreme swings of volatility, and ensure that players have a sessions RTP that will more closely approximate the theoretical RTP.

It's advent into the Australian market is actually on the back of an argument revolving around player fairness for these reasons.

However, all that being said, I understand that many players prefer classic "luck of the die" slots, which is why most the games under the RTG umbrella do not have FG.
But a bit of variety and choice can't hurt IMO.

Woooof

 

[Diane]

Please don't make comments which come across as trying to belittle the membership. Sorry if I have read this wrong, but your comment which I have quoted above looks like it was made with the sole intention to cause bad feeling.

It's Sunday. None of us want to come back tomorrow and be greeted by another verbal war.

As a result Nifty, I have banned you from having any further participation in this thread. Bryan, Max or Simmo! can reverse this, if they feel it is not warranted. I am just pre-empting any potential meltdowns.

________________________________________________________________________
Let me start by saying I enjoy participation in CM because it IS moderated. However, IMO this is over zealous moderation. I have reported posts in past where individuals were being attacked, belittled, demeaned etc --- I have a very low threshold for mean spirited posts personal attacks and foul language. But this doesn't fit any of those categories.

This is not a violation of the rules IMO. I think you may have over-reacted here. But as you said let Bryan, Max, or Simmo make the final decision. I understand that Nifty crossed the rules in the past, but are we perhaps taking it too far with this one line?

And ................WOW - what a derail of my original post!

Diane

Diane

 

[chuchu59]

The FG bet is compulsory and does not detract from the nornal game. Then why isnt the FG saved when the feature hits in normal spins. We are playing extra for the FG so we should be entitled to another feature when the number of spins hit 100 unless the rtp has already factored this in.

 

[daveboz]

Dave, sort of putting words in Cleve's mouth.

sorry

 

[daveboz]

I rarely comment nowadays, but I'll clear up a few items here

0 wins can happen.
However, as I'm sure you would have seen in this event, your 0 win in this game would have awarded $250 (50 times your $5 bet), since the game has the Win-Win feature.



You're not paying for the feature, you're paying for the guarantee that you will receive it after 100 spins, if it has not been triggered randomly.
Mice Dice is a powerful feature that often yields large prize multipliers.
Without an extra bet, and without feature guarantee, you'd be looking at an average feature hit rate somewhere around 1 in 300.



Funnily enough, the gripes above show that the game is, in fact, mathematically sound and entirely random.
If it weren't, then I pose several questions:
1) Why would there have to be an extra bet?
ie: If it was a non-mathematical structure, why not just put the game live and take no extra bet?
2) Why would the game ever yield a 0 feature win?
ie: If it was a non-random system, why would you ever yield such a poor feature result, one that would be sure to annoy the player?

Feature Guarantee will be live in the Australian domestic market (B&M market) 1st quarter 2012, and is highly likely to make it to the U.S. market in late 2012.

Random results do not preclude a system that guarantees a feature event, and is either incorporated into the standard RTP structure of the game, or paid for out of a distinct bet.

Woooof

Didn't get the 4 during a feature, I was talking regular spin. That would've really sucked during the feature due to the extra multiplier.

Yes the Win Win is nice with a 50X $5. Received that once on triple twister. It's like a bonus for not winning anything on a feature LOL. Boy, I was not happy until the 50x5 popped up.

 

[daveboz]

I think this link will help explain why you feel the way you do.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Simple question BPB..

Do you play at RTG casinos? Yes or no?

 

[Papa-ya]

On topic here, I usually will spin no more than 50 times, unless it's playing hot. If a game is cold, I move on. Sometimes I will save the feature build for later sometimes not, it has been about 50/50 that I get it.
I do like that the feature will save for another time, even if I play it in several wager amounts, each one will be saved for when I come back to it.
Not crazy about the Mice Dice, although interesting concept, I don't like paying $40 to get it and winning only $25 back, which does happen, just doesn't appeal to me.
Also as stated by another poster, if I am paying the extra mandatory wager deduction for the Guarantee, it should play a bit differently than the standard FG ones and continue to build on the Guarantee even if I get the feature in the less than 100 spins.
Having it zero your status on the FG if you hit the feature before 100 spins makes it completely the same as the other guarantee games, except you are paying more for it than your standard wager.
For it to be non standard FG, it should hold your status and continue to build, afterall, it's not like you will get good feature hits all the time.

Dogboy, could this be considered?

 

[DogBoy001]

The FG bet is compulsory and does not detract from the nornal game. Then why isnt the FG saved when the feature hits in normal spins. We are playing extra for the FG so we should be entitled to another feature when the number of spins hit 100 unless the rtp has already factored this in.

Accumulator features have been around for 15 years, and function in the manner that you're describing: Accumulate until reaching the indicated number of spins, and then trigger, regardless of what has happened before.

Feature Guarantee is not an accumulator, and thus does not function in this fashion.
The FG calculation takes into account the chance of going (in the case of Mice Dice) 100 spins without triggering the feature randomly.
Were it to function as an accumulator the meter would be set far, far higher than 100 spins.

Woooof

 

[zeledrith]

In the B&Ms in Singapore and Malaysia you will find the feature guarantee slots already, and if I do remember correctly, yes you have to pay for it seperately. Except instead of 100 spins, its 500 spins before you get it, and yes you can still get close to zero from it. Mostly from

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

However, I have seen my fair share of $2500 hits from a dollar bet on those machines so I really do think its not too weird an idea. However I stay away from those as it really gets you to push for the feature if you are close. Pure EVIL!

My advice with RTG, if you don't like it, don't force it, it will really make you a bitter old man. I had the longest losing streak and I just kept banging heads with RTG certain that it will end but It just made me play stupidly and keep losing.

Nowadays I will only deposit there if I get a really good bonus with low wagering requirements. Mostly D+B x 20 is the best you can find on RTG I believe.

I recently took the Lucky Red 400% bonus and deposited $35 and won $1140 after deducting the bonus, so I won't complain too much about RTG, but their slots can be really brutal.

20-30 spins into the session I hit a Wild Card+4 of the football players during free spins in Field of Green (I think its the biggest payout in that game?) Then it was a 4 hour battle with making wagering requirements.

I was able to maintain my bankroll and got it up to $1500 at a certain point, mixing around classic and video slots, however near the end I just dipped down really quick. Made it through the WR and spent a last $20 playing some table games and made another $200 to allow a reasonable withdrawal.

I reversed $80, lost that, and I did the next reasonable thing, I uninstalled the casino so I won't reverse it till its done since they don't flush withdrawals.

 

[DogBoy001]

In the B&Ms in Singapore and Malaysia you will find the feature guarantee slots already, and if I do remember correctly, yes you have to pay for it seperately. Except instead of 100 spins, its 500 spins before you get it, and yes you can still get close to zero from it. Mostly from

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The Aruze product is called Rescue Spins, and was produced 5 years after Feature Guarantee was filed for patenting.
Aruze are currently being sued over this patent infringement in the Australian Federal Court, over the release of their product in NSW.

Woooof

 

[jod5413]

First of all, Dogboy, I am always thrilled to see your posts, they are full of interesting facts that help me understand how the slots perform. I wish you would post more often at CM. It requires patience, I am sure, since so many of us do not understand or do get it but won't believe you.

Thanks!!


And Diane, I agree with you totally. Thanks you for your mind set.

 

[daveboz]

On topic here, I usually will spin no more than 50 times, unless it's playing hot. If a game is cold, I move on. Sometimes I will save the feature build for later sometimes not, it has been about 50/50 that I get it.
I do like that the feature will save for another time, even if I play it in several wager amounts, each one will be saved for when I come back to it.
Not crazy about the Mice Dice, although interesting concept, I don't like paying $40 to get it and winning only $25 back, which does happen, just doesn't appeal to me.
Also as stated by another poster, if I am paying the extra mandatory wager deduction for the Guarantee, it should play a bit differently than the standard FG ones and continue to build on the Guarantee even if I get the feature in the less than 100 spins.
Having it zero your status on the FG if you hit the feature before 100 spins makes it completely the same as the other guarantee games, except you are paying more for it than your standard wager.
For it to be non standard FG, it should hold your status and continue to build, afterall, it's not like you will get good feature hits all the time.

Dogboy, could this be considered?

"I don't like paying $40 to get it and winning only $25 back, which does happen, just doesn't appeal to me."

Better get used to it at an RTG casino. It's pretty common across the board. It's gotten to a point now where you will have a losing session even after hitting a feature.

Speaking of Goldbeard.. I hit the feature on a $10 bet today, two spins in hit a retrigger, 32 spins total at $10, I was thinking what a nice cashout ahead of me. Paid a lousy $450... That is not much folks for that size bet. Especially 30+ free spins.

Thursday I hit White Rhino and a retrigger another 30+ at $12.50. Great start to feature up like $1,400. The next 27 spins paid $400 what a joke!

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

For games like Mice Dice i think may be it a good idea to make FG+ fees optional like some features at intercasino for example.

As for how long i spin - i usually try my luck as soon as i hit about 20% and leave

 

[chuchu59]

________________________________________________________________________
Let me start by saying I enjoy participation in CM because it IS moderated. However, IMO this is over zealous moderation. I have reported posts in past where individuals were being attacked, belittled, demeaned etc --- I have a very low threshold for mean spirited posts personal attacks and foul language. But this doesn't fit any of those categories.

This is not a violation of the rules IMO. I think you may have over-reacted here. But as you said let Bryan, Max, or Simmo make the final decision. I understand that Nifty crossed the rules in the past, but are we perhaps taking it too far with this one line?

And ................WOW - what a derail of my original post!

Diane

Diane

Taking pre-emptive action is part of a moderator's job and I applaud Webscaz for doing so. Given that Nifty is at loggerheads with a good many posters it is high possible that they read his post as confrontational and branded some as unintelligent. Nifty has always been nice to me but some of his posts do come accross as being a bit pushy so a mod had to do something otherwise this might escalate into a war of words./ Not saying this will definitely happen but prevention is always better than cure. Dogboy's contribution to the forum is nothing to be sneezed at and one should look no farther than jod's post for an example of what might constitute a recognition of his contribution.

 

[jod5413]

Thanks for the kind words, Chuchu. However, do not forget the rest of my post. I consider myself an adult. I try to always be polite. I find it is not always possible to be nice. I apologize if I think I am wrong, if not I do not. If I slip up, I count on my friends and maybe a PM from a mod telling me to knock it off. I would not appreciate (and neither would you) a public scolding like a young child would get.

If I do not think a post is nice or right, I usually use the neg rep button, as some of you might know. I expect the same of everyone else, if they think I am out of line. If so many here are so weak in the knees that they have to report a post (I have done it once or twice, in extreme reluctance over really ugly stuff) fine. But to publicly chastise a member and then totally ignore posts after it that are ugly, is not fair or honest. Strictly my opinion, of course.

There seems to be an ongoing attitude of say anything you want but get anyone else in trouble if they act the same. Whatever.............................................nevermind.


Sorry for the de-rail, people

 

[DogBoy001]

For games like Mice Dice i think may be it a good idea to make FG+ fees optional like some features at intercasino for example.

As for how long i spin - i usually try my luck as soon as i hit about 20% and leave

Heya,

Optional extra bets will certainly appear in many upcoming FG games.
Several others will have the FG included without an extra bet (but the compensation is less RTP for the base game, and a higher FG meter reset).
And a few more will have compulsory FG bets.

The optional system will likely become the most common.

Woooof

 

[Gremmyboy]

I really don't see the big problem with the feature guarantee?
My thoughts are if you don't like the game or the way it functions then don't play it.
The slots are made for everyone to enjoy and cover a wide demographic of people.
The designers need to take this in to account and design a host of different games that will appeal to a multitude of different players. Some you will like and some you will not; The choice is yours.

MG have a similar system with the Golden Goose series of games and I have heard no complaints about that at all. On Golden Goose slots you pay a premium to be in the 'running' to win the special features of the slot. I believe RTG's Feature Gaurantee is no different to this concept at all.....It just seems to cop all the heat!

We all have choices and I truly feel that if you dislike a particular slot, then why play it?

Personally I think that RTG's slots are alot better designed and more interesting than MG slots. I do dislike the maximum win amount of 50,000 xbet immensely though!

Cheers
Gremmy

 

[KasinoKing]

I do dislike the maximum win amount of 50,000 xbet immensely though!

Thanks for the reminder!
While we have DogBoy back on board (which I appreciate immensely!), perhaps he can answer these questions:

1) Why EXACTLY do RTG have these max win caps (when other softwares do not)?
2) Is the max win cap factored in to the final RTP figure for the slot, and if so, how?

KK

 

[Nifty29]

Thanks for the reminder!
While we have DogBoy back on board (which I appreciate immensely!), perhaps he can answer these questions:

1) Why EXACTLY do RTG have these max win caps (when other softwares do not)?
2) Is the max win cap factored in to the final RTP figure for the slot, and if so, how?

KK

Good questions.

Once again dogboy, please stick around. Just ignore the nay-sayers.....they just like saying nay

 

[DogBoy001]

Thanks for the reminder!
While we have DogBoy back on board (which I appreciate immensely!), perhaps he can answer these questions:

1) Why EXACTLY do RTG have these max win caps (when other softwares do not)?
2) Is the max win cap factored in to the final RTP figure for the slot, and if so, how?

KK

Heya, and thanks

1) Firstly, I would point out that caps are present in many B&M jurisdictions (including yours and mine).
I think it's the magnitude of the cap that is at issue in certain games, but as it's a commercial decision it's not one I can comment on further.
I will bring up thoughts on a higher cap in some games with RTG, but it's nothing I can make promises on.
Also note that the progressives are uncapped, and therefore not subject to 2) below.

2) Max win calculations are a standard component, as they are in the B&M jurisdictions.

In the vast majority of games, including Realm of Riches above, the RTP effect of the cap is negligible (less than 1/10th of 1%), so it doesn't allow for really any game design difference (such as higher prizes or more free games) compared to the same game without a cap.
Even Mystic Dragon and Paydirt clocked in around the 0.1% cap impact.

2 games spring to mind as having a larger impact (Raindance and Triple Twister), but even then it was slightly over 1% in the case of Rain Dance and slightly under 1% in the case of Triple Twister, and enabled a minimal shift upwards in one symbol's prize value during the design process.

Woooof

 

[chuchu59]

Thanks for the reminder!
While we have DogBoy back on board (which I appreciate immensely!), perhaps he can answer these questions:

1) Why EXACTLY do RTG have these max win caps (when other softwares do not)?
2) Is the max win cap factored in to the final RTP figure for the slot, and if so, how?

KK

Seems the only reason for that is to limit losses for the casinos in case some high rollers get lucky. On the flip-side, what I dont understand is why the commission deducted for games like Baccarat and Pai-gow poker is at least 0.25 even on bets of $1 or $2. Surely the software can be designed as in MG or even PT and Rival to deduct exactly 5% as commission. This is clearly disadvantageous to the low-rollers.

 

[DogBoy001]

On the flip-side, what I dont understand is why the commission deducted for games like Baccarat and Pai-gow poker is at least 0.25 even on bets of $1 or $2. Surely the software can be designed as in MG or even PT and Rival to deduct exactly 5% as commission. This is clearly disadvantageous to the low-rollers.

Can't help you there, we don't have anything to do with the table games

Woooof

 

[KasinoKing]

In the vast majority of games, including Realm of Riches above, the RTP effect of the cap is negligible (less than 1/10th of 1%), so it doesn't allow for really any game design difference (such as higher prizes or more free games) compared to the same game without a cap.
Even Mystic Dragon and Paydirt clocked in around the 0.1% cap impact.

Thanks for the reply - that is pretty much exactly the answer I was expecting.

Soooo... if the effect on RTP is so very negligible, then why bother to have a cap at all?
It just means a slot will have an RTP of 95.1% instead of 95.0% - surely the casino can live with that... and players certainly can, because NONE of them would be pissed-off by having their wins limited!
It makes no sense to me.

KK

 

[Papa-ya]

Thanks for the reply - that is pretty much exactly the answer I was expecting.

Soooo... if the effect on RTP is so very negligible, then why bother to have a cap at all?
It just means a slot will have an RTP of 95.1% instead of 95.0% - surely the casino can live with that... and players certainly can, because NONE of them would be pissed-off by having their wins limited!
It makes no sense to me.

KK

Another question I have to ask, is why then does it have "2" rules? Not too long ago I had been playing Count Spectacular and hit 5 Counts, thus all lines were covered with the Counts making me think that I was being paid for all lines covered. I was only playing 0.25 cents @ 0.01 cent per line and the win was only $500.
The first page rule clearly states that 5 counts would pay 10,000 per line, but then the very hidden rule at the very bottom of page two states the capped win of 50,000.
This is where the average player has a problem with two contradictory rules.
The first rule does not state that you will be paid the 10000 x bet per line, if you are playing less than all lines, or if you are playing all lines, it simply and plainly states that 5counts pays 10000 x bet per line.

Then when the player discovers the first page rule does not actually apply and the win is capped by the secondary hidden rule at the bottom of payout page #2, that's when dissapointment sets in, as hitting a dream hit like 5 expanding wilds is for most a once in a lifetime hit and may never be acheived again and the win is reduced to actually only paying for 5 lines instead of 25.

Here is the link to the thread I had started regarding the capped wins from my experience with the Count Spectacular slot. The payout rules is post number 36, at the end of the thread.

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/rtg-capping-max-wins.42671/

To repeat, this was a once in a lifetime hit and I may never get it again, so being capped was utterly dissapointing. I have been playing online casinos for 10 years and have only hit a win like this 3 times in all these years. So for most players, hitting 5 expanding wilds is as difficult as winning a Random Jackpot and may never happen.

But the two contradicting rules is what bothers me the most, the capping rule should be on page 1 right up there with the payout rules.

 

[LaHutti]

Thanks for the kind words, Chuchu. However, do not forget the rest of my post. I consider myself an adult. I try to always be polite. I find it is not always possible to be nice. I apologize if I think I am wrong, if not I do not. If I slip up, I count on my friends and maybe a PM from a mod telling me to knock it off. I would not appreciate (and neither would you) a public scolding like a young child would get.

If I do not think a post is nice or right, I usually use the neg rep button, as some of you might know. I expect the same of everyone else, if they think I am out of line. If so many here are so weak in the knees that they have to report a post (I have done it once or twice, in extreme reluctance over really ugly stuff) fine. But to publicly chastise a member and then totally ignore posts after it that are ugly, is not fair or honest. Strictly my opinion, of course.

There seems to be an ongoing attitude of say anything you want but get anyone else in trouble if they act the same. Whatever.............................................nevermind.


Sorry for the de-rail, people

That is VERY true...but you're mixing the people up

 

[Gremmyboy]

Another question I have to ask, is why then does it have "2" rules? Not too long ago I had been playing Count Spectacular and hit 5 Counts, thus all lines were covered with the Counts making me think that I was being paid for all lines covered. I was only playing 0.25 cents @ 0.01 cent per line and the win was only $500.
The first page rule clearly states that 5 counts would pay 10,000 per line, but then the very hidden rule at the very bottom of page two states the capped win of 50,000.
This is where the average player has a problem with two contradictory rules.
The first rule does not state that you will be paid the 10000 x bet per line, if you are playing less than all lines, or if you are playing all lines, it simply and plainly states that 5counts pays 10000 x bet per line.

Then when the player discovers the first page rule does not actually apply and the win is capped by the secondary hidden rule at the bottom of payout page #2, that's when dissapointment sets in, as hitting a dream hit like 5 expanding wilds is for most a once in a lifetime hit and may never be acheived again and the win is reduced to actually only paying for 5 lines instead of 25.

Here is the link to the thread I had started regarding the capped wins from my experience with the Count Spectacular slot. The payout rules is post number 36, at the end of the thread.

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/rtg-capping-max-wins.42671/

To repeat, this was a once in a lifetime hit and I may never get it again, so being capped was utterly dissapointing. I have been playing online casinos for 10 years and have only hit a win like this 3 times in all these years. So for most players, hitting 5 expanding wilds is as difficult as winning a Random Jackpot and may never happen.

But the two contradicting rules is what bothers me the most, the capping rule should be on page 1 right up there with the payout rules.

Let me atart off by saying that I love RTG games and their design.

I have a major problem with the cap on wins too. Don't see it is fair or necessary at all!
You PAY to spin on all 25 lines of a slot and then if you are lucky enough to hit a huge win you only get paid for 5 lines! It's only a fraction off of outright theft! I really for the life of me can't understand why this system is in place other than for the purposes of greed?
In Australia the slots in the pubs and clubs are capped at $10,000 per spin regardless of bet size etc... Wouldn't this be a fairer way for RTG to implement this system if they feel it is necessary to have?
Cap the wins at a fixed dollar amount per spin?
RTG should be refunding players for all spins where they have had to pay for 25 lines but those spins only had the potential to be paid out on 5!

Imagine if I bought a lottery ticket and won division 1 but was told 'Sorry, your win is capped at 50,000 times your bet' Instead of getting $2million I'd get $50,000
There are 10 games to a ticket as well so imagine if the 6 winning numbers were on game 7 but on game 2 I had won the $50,000 max cap. I'd lose my $2million prize as the game wouldn't count! There would be a public outcry if any of this happened and the people running the Lotto would be dragged over the coals!!

I really think the days of online casinos being a law unto themselves has to come to an end!


Incidentally, I believe that Australian casinos with slots do not have this max cap rule at all. Seeing as we play at 'online casinos' and not 'online pubs' then fairness would dictate that this max cap rule should not apply!

I personally have the max cap of 50,000 per spin running through my head every time I play RTG and it really kills the fun of the experience, diminishes the excitement that one gets from the excellent games and ruins the experience over all!

I really believe that RTG is succesful enough now as a software platform to remove the max cap function(or at least raise it considerably). I assume it is a selling point to casinos purchasing licenses to the platform to limit their losses but is entirey unecessary as the built in HE will win for them in the end. Having this rule is purely GREED!
In the end it also damages the image and experience of the excellent software as players dream of the 'Mega Hit', this is what keeps us playing, keeps us pumped up and pooring money into casino. The fact that RTG rob the player of this thrill entirely defeats the purpose of the games in the first place!

All IMO of course!

Cheers
Gremmy

 

[Nifty29]

Let me atart off by saying that I love RTG games and their design.

I have a major problem with the cap on wins too. Don't see it is fair or necessary at all!
You PAY to spin on all 25 lines of a slot and then if you are lucky enough to hit a huge win you only get paid for 5 lines! It's only a fraction off of outright theft! I really for the life of me can't understand why this system is in place other than for the purposes of greed?
In Australia the slots in the pubs and clubs are capped at $10,000 per spin regardless of bet size etc... Wouldn't this be a fairer way for RTG to implement this system if they feel it is necessary to have?
Cap the wins at a fixed dollar amount per spin?
RTG should be refunding players for all spins where they have had to pay for 25 lines but those spins only had the potential to be paid out on 5!

Imagine if I bought a lottery ticket and won division 1 but was told 'Sorry, your win is capped at 50,000 times your bet' Instead of getting $2million I'd get $50,000
There are 10 games to a ticket as well so imagine if the 6 winning numbers were on game 7 but on game 2 I had won the $50,000 max cap. I'd lose my $2million prize as the game wouldn't count! There would be a public outcry if any of this happened and the people running the Lotto would be dragged over the coals!!

I really think the days of online casinos being a law unto themselves has to come to an end!


Incidentally, I believe that Australian casinos with slots do not have this max cap rule at all. Seeing as we play at 'online casinos' and not 'online pubs' then fairness would dictate that this max cap rule should not apply!

I personally have the max cap of 50,000 per spin running through my head every time I play RTG and it really kills the fun of the experience, diminishes the excitement that one gets from the excellent games and ruins the experience over all!

I really believe that RTG is succesful enough now as a software platform to remove the max cap function(or at least raise it considerably). I assume it is a selling point to casinos purchasing licenses to the platform to limit their losses but is entirey unecessary as the built in HE will win for them in the end. Having this rule is purely GREED!
In the end it also damages the image and experience of the excellent software as players dream of the 'Mega Hit', this is what keeps us playing, keeps us pumped up and pooring money into casino. The fact that RTG rob the player of this thrill entirely defeats the purpose of the games in the first place!

All IMO of course!

Cheers
Gremmy

A big difference in our land based slots is that the limits are far lower.

You can't bet $100 per spin etc. I think the max is about 15 on most games.

 

[daveboz]

You can't tell me RTG software is not rigged. Maybe this will convince you.
Goldbeard $100 start $1 per spin

-$6 spins trigger (10 free spins)
retrigger (20 additional spins)

Session end result- $165 Are you friggin kidding me? LOL

-$40 spins trigger (10 free spins)
end result $146 bucks

46 spins Gold beard + 40 free spins to win a lousy $46 bucks

 

[Diane]

You can't tell me RTG software is not rigged. Maybe this will convince you.
Goldbeard $100 start $1 per spin

-$6 spins trigger (10 free spins)
retrigger (20 additional spins)

Session end result- $165 Are you friggin kidding me? LOL

-$40 spins trigger (10 free spins)
end result $146 bucks

46 spins Gold beard + 40 free spins to win a lousy $46 bucks

And then over the weekend I hit 5 Pyramids playing Cleopatra on first spin of game, $5 became $2,500 in one spin. today I hit 5 "It's a Mystery" scatters....it;s random. I truly believe that.

Diane

 

[mattsgame]

You can't tell me RTG software is not rigged. Maybe this will convince you.
Goldbeard $100 start $1 per spin

-$6 spins trigger (10 free spins)
retrigger (20 additional spins)

Session end result- $165 Are you friggin kidding me? LOL

-$40 spins trigger (10 free spins)
end result $146 bucks

46 spins Gold beard + 40 free spins to win a lousy $46 bucks

I'm not usually one to nark up around here but sheesh.

Your trying to convince all of us that RTG are rigged yet it seems you really cannot convince yourself. 80% of your posts are banging away at RTG yet you keep playing and playing? What's your agenda here?

Do you keep sending money to Nigerians in the hope of that big payout?


On the topic of 50,000x

RTG should just adjust the paytables to reflect the true payout.

It is confusing, I think RTG have tried to use a legislation model of a max cap as Gremmy has pointed out e.g max $10,000 in Australian pubs and clubs.

Edit: Come to think of it I think Dogboy already mentioned something like this earlier

The problem with this is most online players are not used to having caps on there games/wins. TBH I don't think its a huge deal but to save confusion Change the pay tables


Cheers
Matt

 

[Nifty29]

You can't tell me RTG software is not rigged. Maybe this will convince you.
Goldbeard $100 start $1 per spin

-$6 spins trigger (10 free spins)
retrigger (20 additional spins)

Session end result- $165 Are you friggin kidding me? LOL

-$40 spins trigger (10 free spins)
end result $146 bucks

46 spins Gold beard + 40 free spins to win a lousy $46 bucks

......and yet you keep playing.

Your results here are 100% normal. Nothing "rigged" there.

It's hilarious that you base your accusations on 86 spins LOL.