Comments Welcome Responsible gambling and reversing withdrawals

[chayton]

Someone in the other thread had a good point and I wanted to open it up for discussion without derailing that thread.

Do you think that casinos should limit the amount of withdrawals (either by $amount or number) that player can reverse?

What about if the player has a deposit limit set? Do you think that should also include reversible withdrawals? So for instance if a player has a $200 weekly limit, they deposit $100 and win $2000 and cash out. They reverse $100 and after that, they've reached their deposit limit and can't reverse any more. Or is that the way it works already?

 

[nisosbar]

That's how it works on 3Dice if you want - ask customer support, but it's one of the best player-friendly features that I know. You can set the max reversible at 10%, or 20% or whatever.

 

[hausse222]

Withdrawals should be final like deposits. The reversing option is nothing but a way to increase the casinos profit.

 

[dunover]

Someone in the other thread had a good point and I wanted to open it up for discussion without derailing that thread.

Do you think that casinos should limit the amount of withdrawals (either by $amount or number) that player can reverse?

What about if the player has a deposit limit set? Do you think that should also include reversible withdrawals? So for instance if a player has a $200 weekly limit, they deposit $100 and win $2000 and cash out. They reverse $100 and after that, they've reached their deposit limit and can't reverse any more. Or is that the way it works already?

Right you've just reminded me of a common RG scam/dodge that some casinos do:

Videoslots actually did this (I complained and shut my account as I really rate RG in a site) and I have heard it's now changed.

What they did was offer a loss limit dressed up and mis-described as a deposit limit. Fine and good - except it didn't count winnings. This meant you could set a £100 DL and this wouldn't kick in until you'd LOST £100. So, as you inferred, you could deposit the £100, win 2k and would then subsequently need to lose £2100 to prevent further deposits. This is a LOSS LIMIT and not a deposit limit!

To me a deposit limit is exactly that. 32red/guts/bet-at etc. all have these. You set it to £100, deposit £100 and win 2k, cash-out the 2k and you cannot deposit again until your week/month DL period starts again. Even then you must beware as some sites set their month not on a rolling month but reset on the 1st. day, so you could effectively deposit and lose a monthly limit twice in 2 days.

It is also good that most sites follow a scheme whereby reductions start immediately but increases take 7 days to implement, i.e. a long cooling-off period. Most accredited sites do their utmost to help RG. A proper DL, 7-day cooling-off and allow you to cash-out say 2k with no pending, knowing you cannot deposit any of it back for at least 7 days and therefore spend your winnings elsewhere. It's a good-faith thing which demonstrates integrity.

Now, I like the point about reversals you made. Should casinos be made to count this as a deposit? IMO yes! As soon as you register that w/d, it's then YOUR money. Then again we enjoy many casinos that don't have any reversal time anyway but would I support the LGAs enforcing this on sites with pending periods? Absolutely! Better still (and I think it'll happen eventually when they get a full understanding of players' wishes and stop swallowing the BS-line about 'convenience' casinos feed them) the LGA's should make w/d's final. Same as deposits.

Or we could have a compromise; a small fee for a flush to cover each w/d transaction, so your running w/d's are never reversible.

So, to summarize we are involved in a relatively new industry, barely 20 years old. Like all industries, over time regulatory bodies will be imposed, governments and consumer regulations will develop and eventually we will I believe see the end of reversible withdrawals, incentives to reverse etc. At the moment the tail is wagging the dog, hence the loopholes and lack of real player protection.

Fortunately the good casinos (and we are blessed with plenty here) have grabbed the bull by the horns and done all this for us anyway - kudos to them and you know who you are! And please let's not turn this into a thread regarding 'whole number-colour' people!

 

[funnymunny]

Someone in the other thread had a good point and I wanted to open it up for discussion without derailing that thread.

Do you think that casinos should limit the amount of withdrawals (either by $amount or number) that player can reverse?

What about if the player has a deposit limit set? Do you think that should also include reversible withdrawals? So for instance if a player has a $200 weekly limit, they deposit $100 and win $2000 and cash out. They reverse $100 and after that, they've reached their deposit limit and can't reverse any more. Or is that the way it works already?

I agree with the idea / sentiment & my thoughts are below…

Limit by number of withdrawals
I don’t think this will ever realistically work, as once players are aware of this kind of limitation, there’s the likelihood players could / would increase the value of any / all reversals to ensure they aren’t caught-out by this limit. Again (IMO) we’d also be in a situation where we’d see complaints that 'casino ‘X’ made me increase the size of my reversals because of their rules'


Limit by value of withdrawals
In an ideal world, I’d like to see the Regulators take the lead on this and ensure that all licensees under their jurisdiction had the ability for players to set their own values.

I don’t think associating the max reversal value should be tied to being a multiple of a deposit limit. Many players may not actually have a deposit limit set, so what would happen in that situation? If a player is then forced to set a deposit limit on their account, so a reversal limit is also set, they may set the deposit limit so high that their reversal limit is ineffective. Many players may also feel aggrieved that they have to set themselves some limits & feel patronised / condescended to by the casino and / or Regulator. We’ve already seen the reaction by players in the US when the government has told them that they can’t play at some online casino’s… one of the most frequent responses being along the lines of ’who the hell are they to tell me what I can and can’t do with my money?’.

As such, it’s my belief that a restriction on reversals should mirror that of deposits – you (as a player) set the max value, and a defined time period.

The flip-side to this is of course the possibility that some players may then say 'the games at casino ‘y’ were super-hot, but they stopped me from winning, as I’d already hit my limit & I wasn’t allowed to reverse any more… It’s my money, but they were scared of me winning more'. (Admittedly, these may be few and far between, but I’d be willing to wager it would happen).

We also need to bear in mind that it was stated that one of the reasons the casino had increased their pending period was as a result of the high costs being associated with deposits from players who had recently made a withdrawal. As such, a possible side-effect of implementing a limit on reversals could be that more casino’s start to charge for deposits. A bitter pill, but one I think most would swallow if they knew the rationale & realised that in the long-run, this could save them much more than it’s cost.



Just my 2c & will be interested to read what others have to say

 

[chayton]

The flip-side to this is of course the possibility that some players may then say the games at casino ‘y’ were super-hot, but they stopped me from winning, as I’d already hit my deposit limit & I wasn’t allowed to reverse any more… It’s my money, but they were scared of me winning more. (Admittedly, these may be few and far between, but I’d be willing to wager it would happen).

Yes I thought of that too, and no doubt that would be an issue. However, if it was only for the players who set their deposit limits then the players who didn't want that feature don't need to set it and so it would never affect them. Or maybe that could be an extra option that's set IF you choose to set deposit limits - "Include reversed withdrawals? Yes or No"

I'm sure it would involve extra programming in the cashier though - but you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult to implement.

lol besides, it the games were super-hot you wouldn't need to reverse your withdrawal, you'd just keep winning and withdrawing more and more!

Edit: Sorry I pushed the button before I was finished.

To be honest, I doubt that even if something was changed that it would satisfy everyone. Lots of players are fine the way things are and can wait for days or weeks without even being tempted to reverse, others may have trouble even waiting 24 hours.

 

[dunover]

I agree with the idea / sentiment & my thoughts are below…

Limit by number of withdrawals
I don’t think this will ever realistically work, as once players are aware of this kind of limitation, there’s the likelihood players could / would increase the value of any / all reversals to ensure they aren’t caught-out by this limit. Again (IMO) we’d be in a situation where we’d see complaints that 'casino ‘X’ made me increase the size of my reversals because of their rules'

Agreed.

Limit by value of withdrawals
In an ideal world, I’d like to see the Regulators take the lead on this and ensure that all licensees under their jurisdiction had the ability for players to set their own values.

I don’t think associating the max reversal value should be tied to being a multiple of a deposit limit. Many players may not actually have a deposit limit set, so what would happen in that situation? If a player is then forced to set a deposit limit on their account, so a reversal limit is also set, they may set the deposit limit so high that their reversal limit is ineffective. Many players may also feel aggrieved that they have to set themselves some limits & feel patronised / condescended to by the casino and / or Regulator. We’ve already seen the reaction by players in the US when the government has told them that they can’t play at some online casino’s… one of the most frequent responses being along the lines of ’who the hell are they to tell me what I can and can’t do with my money?’.

A slightly different principle though - Americans were being prevented from jumping in the first place, as opposed to being told how high they could jump.

As such, it’s my belief that a restriction on reversals should mirror that of deposits – you set the max value, and a defined time period.

The flip-side to this is of course the possibility that some players may then say 'the games at casino ‘y’ were super-hot, but they stopped me from winning, as I’d already hit my deposit limit & I wasn’t allowed to reverse any more… It’s my money, but they were scared of me winning more'. (Admittedly, these may be few and far between, but I’d be willing to wager it would happen).

True, but on random games the player could never get away with saying that. (Unless they wore some of my headgear.)

We also need to bear in mind that it was stated that one of the casinos that had increased their pending period was as a result of the high costs being associated with deposits from players who had recently made a withdrawal. As such, a possible side-effect of implementing a limit on reversals could be that more casino’s start to charge for deposits. A bitter pill, but one I think most would swallow if they knew the rationale & realised that in the long-run, this could save them much more than it’s cost.

Maybe a sweeter pill than you think. Yep. Guts do this, and let's just say the complaints about it are minimal compared to the complaints regarding whole number-colour ahem..



Just my 2c & will be interested to read what others have to say

The simple answer is to regulate out pending times. Period.
Casinos MUST respect the player's choice at the time they made the withdrawal. No more, no less.
Would they give me '24 hours pending' to decide if I wanted to reverse my deposit before playing?

Even if there is a small fee, the players will mostly feel happy with the security of it all. Some do this without a fee, in fact many do and we don't hear them bleating about processing costs. Guts do it with a fee, and they are one of the two most popular casinos on here.

Sorry, but the more casinos that find a way to stop pending periods (I'd say the majority of the accredited ones now) then the more shallow and BS the excuses of those who refuse to stop them sound.

 

[cncas123]

I fell into the reversal trap earlier this month, thought that I was on such a hot run that i couldnt possibly lose as I had a very large withrawal pending. But after losing around 20% of the pending withdrawal through reversals, I requested a cool off until the withdrawal had cleared. But unfortunately I was able to reopen my accont before the withdrawal was processed, and managed to reverse it all and waste it. On the other thread it was mooted that a reversal is just the same as a deposit, but if you have had a good run, and have built up a good withdrawal, I for one know that I would never place bets as large as I did when I was reversing the withdrawal. It was my fault that I did reverse, but I do think that there is more that can be done on a responsible gambling level to help customers - because that is what we still are - who happen to have poor judgement when it comes to the reversal of withdrawals and knowing when to quit.

 

[funnymunny]

The flip-side to this is of course the possibility that some players may then say 'the games at casino ‘y’ were super-hot, but they stopped me from winning, as I’d already hit my deposit limit & I wasn’t allowed to reverse any more… It’s my money, but they were scared of me winning more'. (Admittedly, these may be few and far between, but I’d be willing to wager it would happen).

True, but on random games the player could never get away with saying that. (Unless they wore some of my headgear.)

Yes, but didn't the Op in another thread state that 'the slots were hot' & how many times has it been said 'I just couldn't lose'

Slot games from legitimate sources are random (and independently tested to verify it). However emotions can take-over a players usual thought process - that's how they get into trouble & that's also when the're likely to come-up with all kinds of theories and comments. We'll likely never see an end to it, so I wanted to make sure that I had it covered

The simple answer is to regulate out pending times. Period.
Casinos MUST respect the player's choice at the time they made the withdrawal. No more, no less.
Would they give me '24 hours pending' to decide if I wanted to reverse my deposit before playing?

Even if there is a small fee, the players will mostly feel happy with the security of it all. Some do this without a fee, in fact many do and we don't hear them bleating about processing costs. Guts do it with a fee, and they are one of the two most popular casinos on here.

Agreed.

Ultimately competition between the sites may also lead to any of these costs being eliminated / acceptance that this is an internal 'marketing' cost (or similar).

 

[rshkrn]

i really doubt you can get the casinos to agree to limit the no. of amount of reversals, there may be exceptions but it would be against their basic functioning I think

 

[Krrk]

Pending periods that don't move on weekends have cost me enough to stop depositing on certain casinos.

 

[spintee]

Reversals, Most stupid thing I have heard in my life, If people really wanted to spend it than they bloody would not of withdrawn in the 1st place,

I just read 3dice does a % thats a great idea,

My opinion is that there should be a lock button there or a % of button, Also if you have a max depo limit than you should only be able to reverse up to that limit, Example: 500 limit & deposit 100, withdraw 1000 than than max reverse should be 400, I personally think the industry has wriggled around this one, If U.K regs have a self limit than what right have the casinos to let you reverse more than limit? I see a big loop hole there and something should be done about it

 

[randomiam]

my view

well i think there should be a option for players to disable reverses
some players dont mind them some hate them
i think over 24 hours pending is wrong
you cash goes in instantly why cant it come out the same
when it comes down to a wait that can be fine as-long as the cash cant be reversed
ive reversed a few due to the win being the last of my bankroll and its a weekend if my cash was paid i would of only redeposited part
the option to disable reverse is a good one that should be a option at pending time casinos

 

[Harry_BKK]

Pending Periods are designed to increase casino profits

Pending periods and thus possibility to reverse are only there to improve the casino profit...period!!!

This I know for a fact as i was once a, let's call it, super-VIP at the FL group with >500K in deposits/year (much less nowadays as i want to retire at 55 )and had my own personal VIP host. My withdrawals would be paid instantly after flushing except on weekends at a time where 2-3 days was the norm at MG casinos. Some 3 years ago they stopped flushing and introduced the mandatory 24hr pending period and my host told me that within a few months their profits jumped by >30%!!!! What an easy and fantastic way to improve profits.

After reversing and losing a few big withdrawals within a short period of time I started looking for a new casino to play at and that is how i ended up at the 32RED group, who at the time paid 24/7/365 twice/day. That was by far the best at the time.

Fact is the possibility to reverse withdrawals is certainly not responsible behavior by any casino. To restart the pending period after a partial reversal and re-withdraw makes it even worse as it prolongs the time the winnings can be reversed and hence increases the possibility for the casino that they will never have to pay out at all.

Fact is my deposits are taken instantly. Just imagine you play in Las Vegas and you are taking your ticket to the cashier and they say "thank you sir, please come back tomorrow to pick-up your cash".

Fact is that online casinos try to explain pending periods with security/play checks, player convenience and cost they have for deposits/withdrawals. MG and other providers have automatic systems to do security checks in a flash, cost for dep's/withd's are already factored into the cost calculation of running a casino before a new casino goes live, player convenience is just the lame excuse put upfront.

Fact is that MG and other providers have systems in place and had this for years to have withdrawals paid automatically and instantly the soon you hit the Withdraw button. Yet only a few (albeit an increasing number) chose to use them.

Pending periods and reversal possibilities are plain predatory practices!!! Nothing more, nothing less.

Here's what i would propose:

- you are OK with pending periods etc - leave everything as it is
- you want instant withdrawals - put a button in the cashier "INSTANT" ...a small fee is deducted from your w/d and if that is not enough reduce my promotional bonus offers, this can be personalized easily & automatically by the software. If i have a good win i won't care if my DOTD gives me the next day a 25 or a 50% match. (As said above MG has this already in their software, just none of the download MG casinos activates and uses it, for reasons see post title)

 

[fun4all]

This is maybe not really a valid point but still, what gripes me the most about reverse withdrawals is how the industry always try and paint the picture that the ability to do that is to the players benefit.

I mean that is just ridiculous. As far as I am concerned a withdrawal should just be that, a withdrawal.

Casinos clearly hate withdrawals and seem to punish players who make them with bonus bannings etc. Ladbrokes have a term now no bonuses whilst you have a withdrawal pending.

 

[chayton]

This is maybe not really a valid point but still, what gripes me the most about reverse withdrawals is how the industry always try and paint the picture that the ability to do that is to the players benefit.

I can see that they would say that IF the casino charges you for deposits. Then it would make sense to be able to reverse part of your withdrawal and pay no fee rather than make a fresh deposit WITH a fee.

But I'm pretty sure that deposits are going to cost a fee to either the casino or the player. If it's the casino that's picking up the tab every time a player deposits, those fees could add up over time and start to cut into the casino bottom line. I'm not sure how it works or if I'm talking out my bum here, but I imagine that it's something like this - I'm just making numbers up here but let's say that the fee for each deposit is 2%. So I deposit $100 and it costs the casino $2. I double my deposit and cash out $200. I deposit another $100, it costs the casino another $2. I make $150 and cash out. Then I deposit again....etc.

So big deal I've cost the casino $6 on top of my winnings. But if there are a thousand people doing the same thing, or making 20 deposits a day.....Anyhow I'm just speculating, I don't have any idea how it really works!

But in some cases I can see where being able to reverse might be good for the player - for instance, I have a prepaid card that I use to play now and it's got a limit of 2 loads per 24 hours. If I've used those up and have time to kill and want to play, I might reverse a withdrawal if I have one too.

 

[spintee]

I can see that they would say that IF the casino charges you for deposits. Then it would make sense to be able to reverse part of your withdrawal and pay no fee rather than make a fresh deposit WITH a fee.

But I'm pretty sure that deposits are going to cost a fee to either the casino or the player. If it's the casino that's picking up the tab every time a player deposits, those fees could add up over time and start to cut into the casino bottom line. I'm not sure how it works or if I'm talking out my bum here, but I imagine that it's something like this - I'm just making numbers up here but let's say that the fee for each deposit is 2%. So I deposit $100 and it costs the casino $2. I double my deposit and cash out $200. I deposit another $100, it costs the casino another $2. I make $150 and cash out. Then I deposit again....etc.

So big deal I've cost the casino $6 on top of my winnings. But if there are a thousand people doing the same thing, or making 20 deposits a day.....Anyhow I'm just speculating, I don't have any idea how it really works!

But in some cases I can see where being able to reverse might be good for the player - for instance, I have a prepaid card that I use to play now and it's got a limit of 2 loads per 24 hours. If I've used those up and have time to kill and want to play, I might reverse a withdrawal if I have one too.

Yes, (highlighted) If there is thousands of people doing this than there must be more losing so would balance out all the same, There is pro's and cons with all this as you pointed out about your limit on certain cards ect, Well this is where some sort of option was in place such as a % aloud

 

[luckyjay]

If 3Dice can process withdrawals the same day as requested, why can't others?

That's how it works on 3Dice if you want - ask customer support, but it's one of the best player-friendly features that I know. You can set the max reversible at 10%, or 20% or whatever.

The interesting thing about 3Dice is that they process withdrawals almost immediately -- so, even though you set up a reverse limit, its quite possible they've already processed the withdrawal before you have a chance to do an additional reversal! :notworthy

So there is no way an online casino can say they support responsible gaming until they end the practice of unlimited reversals coupled with a deliberate delay in processing withdrawals. One of the base questions asked to determine problem gambling is, "When you win, do you gamble to try to extend your winning streak?" -- It's a known issue, so why can a casino which supports responsible gambling create a condition which feeds the winning streak myth?

Cheers to 3Dice for setting the standard which all online casinos should follow!

 

[mina888]

GREAT IDEA

I think the "reverse withdrawal" button should disappear all together. If there is no such a thing as reversing, I for one would only withdraw if Im 100% sure I do not want to play with my winnings anymore and I want my winnings, my money in my bank account.

 

[silcnlayc]

Not casinos problem

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

 

[cncas123]

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

Surely this isnt a proper or correct comparison. At a land based casino, I win, I cash in, I walk away. Online I win, I cash in, but I have to wait two days to collect? I think there is no parallel here.

 

[spintee]

Go to land base with your last 10 grand, Win hundred grand and be told to wait 5 days for your cash unless you want to spend it in the casino, ?

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

 

[paul7388]

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

The big difference is you had the money on you and chose to spend it. The arguments in these threads are because the casinos are holding the money not us. Okay it is entirely the individuals choice and responsibility as to whether they reverse or not. But the whole arguments here are more about the fact that the casino is having withdrawals reversible for so long which in this day and age there is no need for.

Once a player has chose to withdraw then they should have their withdrawal processed fast or have an option not to reverse it. I know its the players fault for reversing withdrawals but if the casino so wished they could have an option where withdrawals cannot be reversed. The reason they don't is because they WANT the player to reverse and lose it. Noone is asking or expects a casino to babysit them they just want a casino to pay the money out in a timely fashion where there is no option for them to reverse. In this day and age there is no reason whatsoever that a casino cannot process withdrawals fast unless they want you spending your winnings back.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Surely this isnt a proper or correct comparison. At a land based casino, I win, I cash in, I walk away. Online I win, I cash in, but I have to wait two days to collect? I think there is no parallel here.

Agree.

Land based casino - walk in, play, win or lose, but if you want to stop you take the ticket to the cashier, get paid and you walk out
Online casino - log in, deposit, play, win or lose but if you want to stop and withdraw you wait min. 24hrs to get paid

And as we lately learned, a partially reversal and subsequent re-withdrawal can re-start the 24hr period, so you can wait sometimes days to get paid and every time you log back into that casino and try to make a fresh deposit (so you don't touch the pending withdrawal) it is flashed before your eyes - You have funds available for reversal!!!

Nobody in a land based casino is doing that!!! So this is predatory practice to lure the player to play his winnings back.

 

[me_and_ed]

This totally needs to be done at the regulatory level and should me mandatory with licensing, sadly with most of these regulators seems the casino's have a very strong input, more and more I am playing with my local Govt regulated site PlayNow, they bar far do not have the game selection that the big multi platform casino's do but they pay instantly, when the withdrawal button is hit its gone with no chance of reversal, this is a regulation that is attached to the license.

 

[dunover]

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

You miss a major point here - in your example, you chose as you said to spunk the pay-out back again to the casino.

The big difference is that the casino instantly put your winnings in your hand BEFORE you chose to do this.

In this thread, the players are complaining because they don't have that opportunity, the winnings in their hand quickly before they choose what to do with them.

So you were always one step ahead of the online player.

Imagine the land casino looked at the chips you won and told you "You can't cash-in those chips you won for for 24 hours. Feel free to stay in your room for 24 hours or go home, or spend them on our games in the meantime. Otherwise call back at the cashier this time tomorrow to swap them for bills."

(Or on a Friday):

"By the way, the cashier is shut during the weekend, so come back Tuesday and swap them for bills."

 

[me_and_ed]

I also think the "weekend" cashier thing is bullshit, most systems can be setup for automatic transfers of funds to their perspective method or have a customer serviced agent be authorized to approve such transactions, this should be set for all "verified" players.

All of this pending, non flushing, etc.... is nothing more than delay tactics pure and simple, the offenders can paint it anyway they want however we all know exactly what it is, sad they try and pass it off on all these lame excuses, I am pretty much at the stage that I have had enough with the online scene, I have seen so many horrible changes in the last 16 yrs of playing on the net, its pretty depressing.

 

[spintee]

I also think the "weekend" cashier thing is bullshit, most systems can be setup for automatic transfers of funds to their perspective method or have a customer serviced agent be authorized to approve such transactions, this should be set for all "verified" players.

All of this pending, non flushing, etc.... is nothing more than delay tactics pure and simple, the offenders can paint it anyway they want however we all know exactly what it is, sad they try and pass it off on all these lame excuses, I am pretty much at the stage that I have had enough with the online scene, I have seen so many horrible changes in the last 16 yrs of playing on the net, its pretty depressing.

I totaly agree, The whole scene has become a huge play ground to play cowboys and indians, Bar a few sites and operators I would just forget about on-line gambling,

I no its easier said than done and Meister should take into account theses type of things when scoring casinos, People may think not worth as thats only little things and has nothing to do with casinos scores ect, But is a reverse a little thing? Certainly not

 

[dunover]

I totaly agree, The whole scene has become a huge play ground to play cowboys and indians, Bar a few sites and operators I would just forget about on-line gambling,

I no its easier said than done and Meister should take into account theses type of things when scoring casinos, People may think not worth as thats only little things and has nothing to do with casinos scores ect, But is a reverse a little thing? Certainly not

I'm not sure how much of a casino's score has to do with withdrawal speed. The accredited ones should pay in a 'timely fashion' if you read CM's description. Now if Bryan added more weighting to sub-4 hour withdrawals say, it could skew the ratings unfairly against say the US-facing sites which face cash-out problems the European ones don't.

Then again, the situation is fluid as casino-world is always changing. Should it become apparent withdrawals and especially fast/weekend ones are commonly offered, maybe CM will re-evaluate this component of a casino's score.

 

[spintee]

From an experienced reverser Them wins I had over the week end are just about all reversed, I just looked at one of the accounts (bingostars) and money no longer pending from sometime this afternoon) So I will be getting at least 200 quid in my bank It was a bit bigger but as I reversed some I am not sure if it was yestoday or Friday, But nether the less at least thats out and on a Sunday,

From the other site I only have 50 left, I am just going to reverse that now and call it done unless I get a good hit than just withdraw and leave it,

Am I gutted, Yes but not because I gambled it but could of treated my Mum to a present, My fault? YES, Would I do it again? Not unless they put a bloody lock button on there, Am I moaning? Not a chance, Whos to blame? Caisinos

 

[spintee]

I'm not sure how much of a casino's score has to do with withdrawal speed. The accredited ones should pay in a 'timely fashion' if you read CM's description. Now if Bryan added more weighting to sub-4 hour withdrawals say, it could skew the ratings unfairly against say the US-facing sites which face cash-out problems the European ones don't.

Then again, the situation is fluid as casino-world is always changing. Should it become apparent withdrawals and especially fast/weekend ones are commonly offered, maybe CM will re-evaluate this component of a casino's score.

I understand, Its not about the speed of payments low, Its about pending times, This would not matter if you lived on the moon, Theres no reason why there should not be a lock on this, As theres no rules about pending period than if they had some sort of lock to stop you doing this than abit of credit would not go a miss

 

[Nate]

I think they should introduce an option to limit the amount you can reverse. As pointed out by a number of members here, when you hit withdraw, you actually WANT your money. Hitting withdraw doesn't mean that you want your money put into a vault and paid 2 days later.

Casinos have been sliding to the unethical, greedy state of mind where the well being of their players means less and THEIR wallets more. It has always been a business, but it disappoints me when they DON'T play fair.

Deposits are instant, withdrawals are NOT. Now the thing I don't understand is when Casinos have Responsible Gambling Managers and the like to promote that they are responsible and take this seriously...

Well back at the ranch pending periods are fully exploited to ensure maximum profit is achieved - I bet your 'Responsible Gambling Team' didn't see that? Isn't it irresponsible for Casinos to allow players to reverse cash they withdrew.... Apparently not.

Why do places like the UKGC regulate Online Gaming when very important things like allowing reversals and pending periods are overlooked? It seems the game is just that of who can score the most cash off the player, after all, the UK takes a nice little chunk off revenues. Responsible Gambling - REALLY?

Now players are chastised for their lack of discipline, called problem gamblers and told that its their fault. People have weaknesses, when these weaknesses are exploited for personal gain, then the game is NOT fair anymore. Everyone has a choice, whether they decide to deposit $200 or $20 - but when they hit withdraw, they actually WANT their money! They don't want some greedy operator holding on, making excuses, reinstating the pending period and ultimately making sure that somewhere somehow, at least a few people lose the plot and thus their cash.

This whole things wreaks so badly, I hope somebody in the UK brings this to the attention of regulators - Or better still goes to the media to highlight the 'regulation' and not so regulated area of payments.

Nate

 

[dunover]

I think they should introduce an option to limit the amount you can reverse. As pointed out by a number of members here, when you hit withdraw, you actually WANT your money. Hitting withdraw doesn't mean that you want your money put into a vault and paid 2 days later.

Casinos have been sliding to the unethical, greedy state of mind where the well being of their players means less and THEIR wallets more. It has always been a business, but it disappoints me when they DON'T play fair.

Deposits are instant, withdrawals are NOT. Now the thing I don't understand is when Casinos have Responsible Gambling Managers and the like to promote that they are responsible and take this seriously...

Well back at the ranch pending periods are fully exploited to ensure maximum profit is achieved - I bet your 'Responsible Gambling Team' didn't see that? Isn't it irresponsible for Casinos to allow players to reverse cash they withdrew.... Apparently not.

Why do places like the UKGC regulate Online Gaming when very important things like allowing reversals and pending periods are overlooked? It seems the game is just that of who can score the most cash off the player, after all, the UK takes a nice little chunk off revenues. Responsible Gambling - REALLY?

Now players are chastised for their lack of discipline, called problem gamblers and told that its their fault. People have weaknesses, when these weaknesses are exploited for personal gain, then the game is NOT fair anymore. Everyone has a choice, whether they decide to deposit $200 or $20 - but when they hit withdraw, they actually WANT their money! They don't want some greedy operator holding on, making excuses, reinstating the pending period and ultimately making sure that somewhere somehow, at least a few people lose the plot and thus their cash.

This whole things wreaks so badly, I hope somebody in the UK brings this to the attention of regulators - Or better still goes to the media to highlight the 'regulation' and not so regulated area of payments.

Nate

Because the tail (casinos) wags the dog (lobbying of government).
The UKGC like other government bodies are seldom staffed by experts but by retired Civil Servants and Police Officers getting another 10 years' pensionable public employment in before hitting 65.
Therefore there is little or no input regarding the needs or preferences of the customers.

 

[nisosbar]

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I just got back from the casino and I could have/would have, if only, brought back a few thousand dollars. I CHOSE to blow it all back. Should this land based casino have stopped me from doing so? Should they have stepped in and told me NOT to play it all back? Of course not. This is called a CHOICE/DECISION>

A player makes these decisions/choices whenever and wherever they play. Do you want land based casinos watching over your, setting these limits etc etc ...that is being proposed here? Of course not. Then why are you asking online casinos to something land based would never do?

Do I regret at times not bringing home the winnings, only to go back into my pocket deeper and spending more during my visit? Sometimes., but ultimately, it is me that chose and made the decision to do this. NOT the casinos.

I do not want to ever have to be "babysat" during my play at any casino, land based or web based. Why would any of you want this? There are no limits, stops or any other thing proposed here at any land based casino so why would you expect a web based one to set these in place?

If I chose to withdraw and blow it all back, so be it...The same happens at land based casinos.. So, what is the answer? The answer is YOUR choices and decisions, no one else's. You can't blame anyone but yourself on the choices you make.

A casino is there to make a profit We all know this. You start demanding/forcing casinos to babysit you, you will be in a world of hurt down the road...when they start limiting your access/deposits/time of play etc etc because you opened the gates to this, by asking for changes due to your own inability to take responsibility and to own the decisions you made, then there again is no one but yourself to blame on these changes if implemented by casinos.

***Caveat....When the word "you" is used, it is used in reference to no one in particular, a generality...

.

I completely agree. The feature on 3Dice is optional - you can select to implement the tool - or NOT select it. And I agree completely that players need to take responsibility for their decisions. I don't think I have ever stated otherwise. Does it suck sometimes when you lose it all back? yup. Does it sometimes mean you cash out even more? yup. That's part of gambling - you will almost always lose it all back, but sometimes, you won't. The decision is your decision.

 

[fun4all]

You see this is an example of what I find most ridiculous about these situations

https://sussexmskpartnershipeast.com/forums/threads/betfred-withdrawals.57210/?t=57210

Casino implements 24hr pending with no flush possible. Player is told by live chat that "this pending period was pushed for by customers"

Rep is then notified and declines to comment on the situation.

I do not believe for a second that a pending period with no flush possible is what any customer wants when they hit withdraw. Utterly ridiculous to treat your customers with that contempt. If they had at least said it was a "business decision" or the rep had actually posted in the thread and said that then there is some honesty there but no - the customers want it apparently.

 

[silcnlayc]

Complaints on casino action

I see a lot of finger pointing, and blaming and accusing of how casinos are doing this , doing that ect ect...Let me say this.

If this is an issue when you play ...just don't play online. Go back to land based casinos. The online casinos cater to online players because they can, just as we players, can choose not to play online and go back to land based.

You want your money now? Go play where it is paid out now. You want changes for online casino rules, then open a casino and implement those rules yourself and see how quickly you change your tune.

I am not trying to be a smart ass, just pointing out what others are failing to acknowledge. The choices that are there. You don't like the rules and regs and the holding period or the non weekend payment or the non reversal button not there...DON'T play online! No one forces you to deposit into these casinos. No one forces you to accept their terms and conditions. They do have them, you know them, so....enough said.

All the moaning groaning in the world is not going to make a difference to most of these casinos because what they have in place works for THEM. Did we not all agree already, casinos are in it for a profit (anyway they can get them?)

Play smart...make that withdrawal, play their game and move to another casino to ease that urge to play...just don't reverse no matter how long it takes. If players stop reversing and depositing while withdrawal is pending..see how quickly the casinos will start processioning them then. The loss of revenue is more of a motivator for casinos and when they stop getting deposits during a pending withdrawal sitting there...they will notice and they will start understanding..

I get calls and emails all the time wondering where I have been...I tell them...as long as my withdrawal is not in my bank account, I will be spending my money elsewhere. It has sped up my withdrawal processing at a lot of the casinos I play at...once I held to what I said.

Demands , threats etc...do not motivate a casino to make change. The bottom line does.

.



.

.

 

[Harry_BKK]

There is no finger pointing nor blaming the casinos. We all know very well that we are responsible for our own actions.

All casinos are displaying proudly on their websites that they promote fair and responsible gaming. Pending periods (which it seems can re-trigger when a player partially reverses and re-withdraws later leading to a possibly endless pending period) and reversal possibilities are designed to lure players to play their winnings back and is completely contradictory to their statements.

Even well known brands like 32RED, Fortune Lounge, Palace Group, CR group etc, who for years had no pending periods have introduced them among other reductions in player friendly features (e.g. flushing, weekend payouts) and there is purely no logical explanation why these periods are needed.

Technology is so advanced nowadays that pending periods are not needed, instant payments can be done without any additional workload.

Yes, i stayed away from Palace Group, FL and CR group in the past 3 years, depositing maybe a combined 1000$/ year on all of them for exactly this reason. Yes, i got and still get bonus chips added to my accounts, returning player bonuses of 125 and 150% with low wagering requirements, still i won't be again a regular player there.

I see a lot of finger pointing, and blaming and accusing of how casinos are doing this , doing that ect ect...Let me say this.

If this is an issue when you play ...just don't play online. Go back to land based casinos. The online casinos cater to online players because they can, just as we players, can choose not to play online and go back to land based.

You want your money now? Go play where it is paid out now. You want changes for online casino rules, then open a casino and implement those rules yourself and see how quickly you change your tune.

I am not trying to be a smart ass, just pointing out what others are failing to acknowledge. The choices that are there. You don't like the rules and regs and the holding period or the non weekend payment or the non reversal button not there...DON'T play online! No one forces you to deposit into these casinos. No one forces you to accept their terms and conditions. They do have them, you know them, so....enough said.

All the moaning groaning in the world is not going to make a difference to most of these casinos because what they have in place works for THEM. Did we not all agree already, casinos are in it for a profit (anyway they can get them?)

Play smart...make that withdrawal, play their game and move to another casino to ease that urge to play...just don't reverse no matter how long it takes. If players stop reversing and depositing while withdrawal is pending..see how quickly the casinos will start processioning them then. The loss of revenue is more of a motivator for casinos and when they stop getting deposits during a pending withdrawal sitting there...they will notice and they will start understanding..

I get calls and emails all the time wondering where I have been...I tell them...as long as my withdrawal is not in my bank account, I will be spending my money elsewhere. It has sped up my withdrawal processing at a lot of the casinos I play at...once I held to what I said.

Demands , threats etc...do not motivate a casino to make change. The bottom line does.

.



.

.

 

[survivethis]

I completely agree. The feature on 3Dice is optional - you can select to implement the tool - or NOT select it. And I agree completely that players need to take responsibility for their decisions. I don't think I have ever stated otherwise. Does it suck sometimes when you lose it all back? yup. Does it sometimes mean you cash out even more? yup. That's part of gambling - you will almost always lose it all back, but sometimes, you won't. The decision is your decision.

When I cash out from a land based casino, I am usually done for the night and leave with cash in hand. When I cash out online, I don't have cash in hand, I have to wait sometimes as long as 2 weeks before it hits my bank. The feature at 3Dice will not allow you to make another deposit if you have a pending withdrawal, you have to reduce the withdrawal amount and play with that.

 

[silcnlayc]

When I cash out from a land based casino, I am usually done for the night and leave with cash in hand. When I cash out online, I don't have cash in hand, I have to wait sometimes as long as 2 weeks before it hits my bank. The feature at 3Dice will not allow you to make another deposit if you have a pending withdrawal, you have to reduce the withdrawal amount and play with that.

Harry_BKK
There is no finger pointing nor blaming the casinos. We all know very well that we are responsible for our own actions.

All casinos are displaying proudly on their websites that they promote fair and responsible gaming. Pending periods (which it seems can re-trigger when a player partially reverses and re-withdraws later leading to a possibly endless pending period) and reversal possibilities are designed to lure players to play their winnings back and is completely contradictory to their statements.

I have waited for 4 weeks or longer for a withdrawal. I have also moved to another casino while waiting...you don't have to continue playing at the same casino you withdraw from. On another note...the withdrawal reset time has been there for as long as I can remember. That is not a new thing they just thought up. I learned that long ago on my first reversal...that was another added reason I stopped reversing after being bit the second time.

.

 

[luckyjay]

When I cash out from a land based casino, I am usually done for the night and leave with cash in hand. When I cash out online, I don't have cash in hand, I have to wait sometimes as long as 2 weeks before it hits my bank. The feature at 3Dice will not allow you to make another deposit if you have a pending withdrawal, you have to reduce the withdrawal amount and play with that.

The situation is different depending on where you live. Firstly, 3Dice doesn't have a "pending period" so their reverse limit option is really a moot point. They pay out on Skrill or NeTeller "immediately" (usually within the hour). Those of us in the US that can't use those payment methods get payment via checks which are sent out daily. I know there is a bit of an issue of transferring funds internationally, and US Facing casinos have to deal with how to get the funds back into the US. Obviously they could keep funds in the US for payouts, but I doubt that they trust the US Government to not seize those funds at a whim.

That being said, there is no excuse for these profitable casinos to make matters worse by implementing predatory "pending" periods which are only designed to increase their profits.

 

[LeanneP]

No Worries On Reverses

My story is particularly sad, and I prefer to play to equally troubled crowd, so bow out if you are faint of heart..or "sober" as it is sometimes called.

I have lived my adult life from small job to manual labour to unemployment to temp jobs to disability...basically a life of near-poverty. In Canada, that's not impossible, and I have scrounged and put tips when I could get them, etc, onto my casino gaming hobby. I have vastly enjoyed watching the online casino industry grow. I was one of the first data entry operators in Canada, before internet, and it's vastly interesting.

I have "won" dozens of times; gone up in my balance, to over $50, to up over $1000 literally hundreds of times. I have tried to withdraw probably more than a couple of hundred times.

EVERY time, very few exceptions, I turn my withdrawal around. Once I had around $750 in 32Red. I flushed it, then reversed that flush, $10 at a time, until it was gone. No one has ever, nor until now that I read the concept at all in this forum, mentioned that that might not be the best idea, or that there could ever be any restriction to a flushed withdrawal.

Through thick and thin over ten years. I have likely bought at least a couple of very juicy BIG jackpots, with my own money. Nor will I ever take my purchase anywhere...not likely, anyway.

What's the point? A) Casinos, no matter how nice they are, how friendly, how 'honourable'...don't give a flying crap. and B) I feel like if I took the money, something bad would happen...that there's a hidden "drawback". Maybe it's the bizarre 'hints' in the subject lines of the spam e-mails I get. Maybe it's the 'prep' statements said out in the street "Some old guys think you're making a lot of money" (the rest of the sentence was 'on your paper route') ...! True or false, good, bad or ugly, that's how I feel. Kind of excruciatingly succulently amused; kind of doomed. But what a torture!

Cheers.

 

[plasticnote]

I am slowly stopping playing these casinos with pending cashout.

These days, I spent my money at betsson, betsafe and some other places offering instant cashout.

Back to few years ago, there are many big groups with MG platform, FL, GNUF, JPF etc, then they all either disappeared or consolidated. Many of them introduces longer and longer pendings, remove flush to lift their bottom line, seems in long run, it does not work...

I used to be a VIP in many of them, and spending 10s of thousands every year at each of them. Now only see their spam in my email making me feel disgusting...

It takes a bit time to see the effects kick in, in few months, they probably enjoy a much higher profits margin, but behind that are people moving away from them.

I think we players should be more responsible for these situation rather than regulation authority , we shall all go play at betsson, betsafe and some other places with instant cashout.

cheers

plasticnotes

 

[Harry_BKK]

I am slowly stopping playing these casinos with pending cashout.

These days, I spent my money at betsson, betsafe and some other places offering instant cashout.

Back to few years ago, there are many big groups with MG platform, FL, GNUF, JPF etc, then they all either disappeared or consolidated. Many of them introduces longer and longer pendings, remove flush to lift their bottom line, seems in long run, it does not work...

I used to be a VIP in many of them, and spending 10s of thousands every year at each of them. Now only see their spam in my email making me feel disgusting...

It takes a bit time to see the effects kick in, in few months, they probably enjoy a much higher profits margin, but behind that are people moving away from them.

I think we players should be more responsible for these situation rather than regulation authority , we shall all go play at betsson, betsafe and some other places with instant cashout.

cheers

plasticnotes

well said... same experience here and just now starting to move on to casinos which pay instantly.

 

[plasticnote]

well said... same experience here and just now starting to move on to casinos which pay instantly.

the advantage of playing instant pay casinos are that it is very similar to play land based. Harry, do not try to build bigger enough to cashout. IMO, once hit few 100x win, cashout, it will in your ewallet for few seconds. switch platforms, and switch games.

 

[mina888]

Which casinos pay instantly? Do you have to have a special payment method like skrill or cc withdrawals also are instant?

the advantage of playing instant pay casinos are that it is very similar to play land based. Harry, do not try to build bigger enough to cashout. IMO, once hit few 100x win, cashout, it will in your ewallet for few seconds. switch platforms, and switch games.

 

[plasticnote]

Which casinos pay instantly? Do you have to have a special payment method like skrill or cc withdrawals also are instant?

my cashout from betsson are always instant and from betsafe takes between 2sec to 2 hours.

i use skrill.

 

[Slotaholic]

my cashout from betsson are always instant and from betsafe takes between 2sec to 2 hours.

i use skrill.

Bestsafe and betsson are instant for me, mrgreen and guts are usually within 1-4 hours and thats even during the weekend.


/Slotaholic

 

[chayton]

Thanks everyone for your input, I think basically we would all like to be paid quickly, even those few who can resist a quite long pending period. I don't particularly blame the casinos, because ultimately the responsibility is up to the player. If you're consistently reversing and losing withdrawals, you need to either start playing at casinos that don't offer that option or figure out a method to keep from doing it.

But a lot of gamblers are impulsive - the whole responsible gambling thing and being able to set deposit limits is made for those impulsive players.

What I'd like to see implemented is a LOCK rather than a flush. Like imagine if, when you make your withdrawal there would be an option to lock it - the player can choose to check it or not. IF you check it, you can still see it sitting there tempting you, but it CAN'T be reversed even by contacting support - that way it would reduce the strain on support when all the players decide, "oh if only I had an extra $100 to play with." If they don't check it, they can reverse all they want.

Just off or on, no grey area like with flushing - if you requested a flush and your WD hadn't been sent to processing, you could always contact support to reverse part (or all) of it. With a lock, you could simply lock each withdrawal you make when you're making it and it can't be undone. Maybe with a message that says "If you lock this it can't be undone, ARE YOU SURE" just to keep people from crying that they checked it by accident when they're desperately trying to talk support into reversing it later. It would be up to the player completely - if you changed your mind and wanted to play more, too bad. AND if you don't set the lock and reverse and spend it back, then it's nobody's fault but your own.

Or what if you could lock a portion of your withdrawal? If your withdrawal was for $1200 you could choose to lock $1000 - you'd be able to reverse $200 if you want, but no more than that. Maybe a bit more complicated, but since it's all just imaginary anyhow...

Would I use a feature like that? I think I would, maybe not every time though.

And actually it might be good for the casinos too. If you want to play a bit more maybe instead of depositing $50 you'll deposit $100 because you can see you've got that $2000 or whatever locked up and safe.

 

[luckyjay]

Which casinos pay instantly? Do you have to have a special payment method like skrill or cc withdrawals also are instant?

3Dice pays almost instantly if you are in a place that you can use NeTeller or Skrill. Otherwise, they send a check out same day.
They even post a live-updated average payout time on their website:

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[sigothx1]

Time to chip in with some home truths, My casino, assuming you have provided full ID and believe me if your withdrawing a decent amount, if you haven't been asked for something, were going to ask you. the standard withdrawal times are 3 working days, we advise on the phone it could be sooner, its not, it never is unless your a vip in which case we will process the next working day, W/d on a Friday? ye that w/d will still be pending Wednesday, 5 days after request, then well ask you for id, then well ask you for something else, the most ive seen a player wait was 3 weeks with a pending w/d we asked for dob/address id, 3 days later we asked for phone bill, which i wont go into much as it would give away the casino i work for, 3 days later we asked for a winners cheque which is basically another 7 days as we post out a novelty check second class on a Friday, its not getting to you until Monday if your lucky, and you need to sign for it, dont sign for it as your working? ye go pick that up from the post office the next day ect, once we get winners cheque you then have to wait another 3 working days, imagine how many weekends have passed now.

Then, then we process your withdrawal. Don't get me wrong this is if you've won a substantial amount and by that i mean 4 figures +, unless as i said your a vip. and to be a vip you need to be losing high 5 figures per year for us to speed things up.

now, in alllll that time, you can reverse your w/d and play, if you do reverse the process starts again the second you request another w/d another cheque can be sent even if you've already done one if you happened to win anymore money from reversing, if you lost you have to wait yet more working days ( we also class holidays as non working days )

WHY does the casino do this? for the exact reason you all think, to tempt you to play it back, casinos are a business before they are your friends, i get people call me on a weekly basis, some in tears telling me they have reversed there w/d and lost it, my heart goes out to them, but from a personal and not a working perspective people need to learn not to reverse, easier said than done i know, im guilty of reversing and losing like most online gamblers, alltho its very, very rare for me to do it, ive still done it. my advice for people who get tempted? close your account the moment you withdraw your funds, and re-open it after, yes you could just re-open and reverse, but if you do this you should be able to think "im closing this and will NOT open it until im paid" its an extra bit of willpower.

my last tip is a tad extreme, but if you win a SUBSTANTIAL amount of money 5 figures say, and you know your tempted to reverse, SELF EXCLUDE your account, this effectively stops you reversing as you psychically cannot gain access to do so, one of our players did this a couple months ago, most people in the office laughed when i told them hes done this to prevent reversing as they all said "well why cant he just stop himself" but hes the winner, he knows that £4000 he won is going to be paid and even if he wanted to reverse with all his might he simply cant, just be aware self exclusion usually lasts 6 months +.

i hope im not coming across as "one of them" im a player just like you guys, but this is reality, as long as people reverse and lose it wont change, and some people have 0 willpower.